Pokemon Red, Blue, and Yellow In-Game Tiers - Reboot

[DrumstickGaming]

I love these types of lists. If you don't mind, I'll chime in with a little.

Hitmonchan

Hitmonchan has a case for E-tier and possibly the worst Pokemon in the game.
You of course get Hitmonchan at a decent level for the location, level 30 isn't bad for potentially right after Rock Tunnel, plus having a nice 105 base attack paired with 76 base speed means it should hit hard and outspeed some of the game along with how early it is compared to some others. It does hit hard if everything goes in its favor, but that rarely happens with the boss battles in the game. Plus in the latter half of the game, trainer battles pack a Pokemon that usually has a special move, which if relying on accuracy of Mega Punch, leaves a person running to heal a lot. Once Strength is available, use that, unless of course, you have Body Slam for it.

The normal trainers can be won over by using the Mega Punch TM, the Strength HM or if possible, the Body Slam TM (Which isn't a hard thing for most Pokemon in this game...). It is the boss fights where this mon has little to any use besides fodder. Though of note, most routes after Koga can pretty easily kill it, gotta love that 35 base special mixed with a bad health stat.

Erika packs two grass/poison types that can easily kill it with their special moves in two turns, while you might be able to kill them in two turns if you are 5 or 6 levels higher. Koga will just annoy you with Smokescreen on the two Koffings while potentially killing it, Muk sets up and ignores its very existence, and Weezing has fun (this actually depends on a lot factors, mostly your patience or the AI killing itself and you.). Sabrina laughs in haiku. Blaine will more than likely burn it alive, but can go in your favor if Fire Blast pulls a miss, that's if you get past the Rapidash. Giovanni, actually has a even matchup until Hitmonchan has to tap out.

Lorelei loses Dewgong due to it spamming Rest. (might be able to kill Cloyster with some luck.). Bruno will lose his Onix(s) if he doesn't Harden his rock snakes, while everything else kicks the crap out of Hitmonchan. Yes, even another Hitmonchan will kill it, mostly due to Counter, though Thunder Punch/Fire Punch will do the same damage your Hitmonchans Strength will do if 5 levels lower, just as a note. Agatha laughs in Braille. Lance doesn't care about it (though it will kill the Dragonite due to it spamming Agility) . The Rival has one Pokemon that might not have a good time, that being the Rhydon.

With other Pokemon, you can usually think of some weird gimmick to use it for, but Hitmonchan has nothing besides its god awful sprite. I can honestly think of weird crap to do with Tangela, Parasect, and even Ditto, but Hitmonchan is ridiculous in the fact of how much it sucks. Medium Fast exp can't save it.

Hypno

Drowzee has a case for A-tier and has some uses that are pretty nice.
Drowzee is a lot like Magikarp in this game, it starts off pretty weak, then powers up to pretty high heights as you go through the game. Catching it at Route 11 means the lowest level it can be is Level 9, which sucks for that point in the game. This is the only big negative, which it happens to share with Magikarp too. Drowzee will have to wait till Level 17 for Confusion, which isn't that bad due to Route 11 and the S.S Anne holding 20+ trainers to farm. Evolution at Level 26 is early enough to dumpster the mid game, while being a fantastic mon for the late game. Psychic at level 37 is pretty nice as well, along with a decent attack for the normal moves it can learn.

Hypno is a Psychic Pokemon with a decent attack, very few route trainers will cause trouble for it.

Against Surge as a Drowzee is fine until the Raichu, it is pretty much a for sure defeat unless hypnosis works. Erika will trade blows with you if you just evolved and didn't use the Psychic TM on it. Koga cries in sign language. Sabrina is actually easy due to access to a physical move and her Alakazam only having Psybeam, so you can just Psychic spam after she puts up a reflect to eventually lower her special. Blaine is pretty even overall, besides that Fire Spin problem. Giovanni loses while scoring some hits.

Lorelei is the biggest problem in the Elite Four, mostly due to freeze. Bruno dies. Agatha has that confusion hax, but otherwise it good for Hypno. Lance is kind of neutral, but with the level difference (most likely), it is in Lances favor. The Rival loses half of his team, though you can't really beat his Alakazam without Hypnosis.

This leads me into why I really think Drowzee should be A-tier. Hypnosis allows it to skate by where it struggles. It has a lot of winning match ups, but also some losing ones, which would normally put it in B-tier. The ability it has to bully a sleeping Pokemon is something that is super powerful, especially considering the defenses of Hypno. There are very few things that could one shot Hypno, allowing it to beat stuff down, or put them to sleep. An example is that both Lance's Dragonite and the Rival's Charizard/Blatoise/Venusaur can't one shot it (unless a crit), when Hypno is 12 levels lower than Lance and 15 levels lower than the Rival.

Honestly if Sandslash, a pokemon with similar problems, but no utility can sit in A-tier, so should Hypno.

I think I'll stop there, see if I'm overstepping or something before continuing.

Fantastic post, you are very informed (and funny too, Sabrina laughs in haiku got a laugh).

Using Hypno atm in my Charmander run. It’s definitely A, but I haven’t been using Hypnosis a ton because accuracy. That said Sleep in RBY is silly. I had Hypno for Surge - I can confirm he does like nothing to it. Even with Confusion it just 2HKOs everything and outbulks all the weak attacks the game throws at it. The only thing being annoying is the initial grind but you can get a level 13 one to mitigate this IIRC.

Please post more, this was a great start!

 

[Xator_Nova]

Regarding Drowzee, I also want to add that Repels are already available at this point of the game, and thus using the Repel trick to get the highest leveled Drowzee isn't out of the question. This would mean that Drowzee's period of weakness isn't as bad as Magikarp's, since the highest join level for Drowzee in RB is Lv15 (two levels before Confusion), and Yellow Drowzee can join at Lv19.

Drowzee's stats aren't really all that pitiful either - 90 Special isn't something to sneeze at in this point of the game, and its base stat total actually matches Hitmonchan's and surpasses Beedrill's. Once it's a Hypno it hits hard with 115 Special. In a sense it reminds me of Exeggutor (mixed attacker, access to Hypnosis and a super strong STAB Psychic), except that it grows faster due to belonging to the Medium Fast group and isn't weak to Poison.

 

[Many Hours]

Thanks for the compliment Drumstick!

So, I really want to theorize how soon you can get Porygon to really determine its placing. I have used one before, but grinding coins seems very inefficient for testing availability. Cause who wants to rely on duct tape code for their winnings? I'm gonna be putting all my calculations/information into a separate spoiler from the actually tiering of Porygon.

Money Calc

The problem with Porygon here is that, technically it is better in Blue version due to being cheaper at 6,500 coins, while Red and Yellow sit at a solid 9,999 coins. I'm gonna be working with Pokemon Red here, mostly because this will give you a basic idea of when Porygon is available in Yellow (even with some trainer differences.), while giving the Blue player a similar landing point if they really need it.

So Coins cost $1,000 per 50 coins, or $20=1C
This means if we multiply Porygons cost of 9,999 by $20 we get the exact money amount needed for Porygon (In Red and Yellow).
9,999*20 = 199,980
Except you have to buy 50 coins at once, so you can't use the exact amount needed, you need to buy more than you actually need. It happens to be $200,000 in game money that we need to achieve more than 9,999 Coins (If possible).

Now that we have the goal, we have to count up our winnings in each battle. I'm going to be going with the idea of never buying anything, and never blacking out.

If you don't know how winnings are calculated in Gen I, you can look it up if you care that much. I'll be doing the calculations out of this box, cause it would be even longer than this is right now...

We start with 3,000 or 1.5%
Our Rival gives us 175 if we win the first battle
Our Rival gives us 280 if we win the battle west of Viridian City
We get 190 from the three bug catchers in Viridian Forest (More trainers in Yellow)
We get 220 from Brock's underling and 1386 from Brock himself. (You get less in Yellow).
As of now we have 5,251 or about 2.6%
We get 495 from the three Lasses on Route 3, 300 from the three bug catchers, and 375 from the two youngsters.
On the first floor of Mt. Moon we get 210 from two bug catchers, 150 from a youngster, 350 from a hiker, 375 from two lasses, and 275 from a super nerd.
On Mt. Moon basement we get 1170 from the four rocket grunts and 300 from the super nerd. (Yellow gets money from Jessie&James).
In Misty's gym we get 700 from her underlings, then get 2079 from Misty herself.
As of now we have 12,030 or about 6%
We grab 595 from our rival on Nugget bridge.
On Route 24 we grab 450 from two Lasses, then 140 from a bug catcher, 210 from a youngster, 450 from a rocket, and finally 710 from two Jr. Trainers.
On Route 25 we get 1165 from three hikers, get 690 from three youngsters, 280 from a Jr. Trainer, and 450 from two Lasses.
We get 525 from the Rocket that robbed the house in Cerulean City.
S.S Anne Floor 1 gets us 270 from a lass, 315 from a youngster, and 2590 from two Gentleman.
S.S Anne Basement gets us 2755 from five sailors and 595 from one fisherman.
S.S Anne Upper Deck gets us 1050 from two sailors.
S.S Anne Floor 2 gets us 530 from a fisherman, 315 from a lass, and 2830 from two gentleman. We also rob our Rival of 1300
We get 2740 from Surge's Underlings and 2376 from Surge himself.
As of now we have 35,361 or about 17.6% (At this point I will be putting route/dungeon totals, I think I've showed enough of my work to follow along.)
Route 11 gives us 8115.
Route 9 gives us 4,145.
Route 10 North gives us 360.
Rock Tunnel gives us 10,990.
Route 10 South gives us 2,820
Route 8 gives us 6,240
Rocket Hideout gives us 9,720
Lavender Tower gives us 11,160.
As of now we have 88,911 or about 44%
Selling two Nuggets for 10,000
Erika's gym gives us 9,851
Silph Co. gives us 38,684
Dojo gives us 4,175
Sabrina's Gym gives us 8,767
Route 16 gives us 4,010
Route 17 gives us 6,530
Route 18 gives us 2,225
Koga's Gym gives us 11,732
As of now we have 184,885 or about 92%
Route 12 gives us 5,565
Route 13 gives us 11,545
As of now we have 201,995 or about 100.01%

This means for Porygon you have Routes 14 and 15 on mainland, Seafoam Islands and the water routes around it, Pokemon Mansion, and Victory Road. (Power Plant if needed.) Not much time to get acquainted really.

Porygon

Porygon should stay in E-tier and if ever a F-tier is created, put Porygon in it.
Based on the findings, Porygon is only available for two gym leaders, the Elite Four, and some odd trainers when not grinding for coins.

Porygon starts at Level 26 in Pokemon Red or Level 18 in Pokemon Blue which is still not worth the extra 3000 coins... It is quite slow, beating out only four fully evolved Pokemon, one of which is purely optional (Snorlax). This means Porygon is tanking hits which it kind of can due to its decent bulk. Problem is Porygon relies on at least one TM to make a movepool, either Ice Beam or Thunderbolt (Thunder could work I guess). It will use Psybeam, Tri-Attack, Recover, and whatever TM you gave it. You could use whatever move set you like, but there aren't many other good options.

Porygon gets two shotted by Blaine, murdered by Giovanni, frozen by Lorelei's team (unless you gave it Thunderbolt or Thunder, even then still a challenge.), chopped by Bruno's Hitmonlee, Agatha actually can't do a lot besides confuse and sleep, and the Rival doesn't really care about it.

Even if you scrounged up enough coins, the best match Porygon has if you get Porygon right as you get to Celadon is Erika (Psybeam, but even then it still is a uphill battle.). Sabrina doesn't even care about Porygon's stab physical move, it doesn't do enough damage. Koga is the only match that is "equal" in the fact you just punch each other till the world ends.

Porygon is laughable in execution and even worse in accessibility. Like the game it is in, it barely functions and is glued together.

 

[Xator_Nova]

Thanks for the compliment Drumstick!

So, I really want to theorize how soon you can get Porygon to really determine its placing. I have used one before, but grinding coins seems very inefficient for testing availability. Cause who wants to rely on duct tape code for their winnings? I'm gonna be putting all my calculations/information into a separate spoiler from the actually tiering of Porygon.

Money Calc

The problem with Porygon here is that, technically it is better in Blue version due to being cheaper at 6,500 coins, while Red and Yellow sit at a solid 9,999 coins. I'm gonna be working with Pokemon Red here, mostly because this will give you a basic idea of when Porygon is available in Yellow (even with some trainer differences.), while giving the Blue player a similar landing point if they really need it.

So Coins cost $1,000 per 50 coins, or $20=1C
This means if we multiply Porygons cost of 9,999 by $20 we get the exact money amount needed for Porygon (In Red and Yellow).
9,999*20 = 199,980
Except you have to buy 50 coins at once, so you can't use the exact amount needed, you need to buy more than you actually need. It happens to be $200,000 in game money that we need to achieve more than 9,999 Coins (If possible).

Now that we have the goal, we have to count up our winnings in each battle. I'm going to be going with the idea of never buying anything, and never blacking out.

If you don't know how winnings are calculated in Gen I, you can look it up if you care that much. I'll be doing the calculations out of this box, cause it would be even longer than this is right now...

We start with 3,000 or 1.5%
Our Rival gives us 175 if we win the first battle
Our Rival gives us 280 if we win the battle west of Viridian City
We get 190 from the three bug catchers in Viridian Forest (More trainers in Yellow)
We get 220 from Brock's underling and 1386 from Brock himself. (You get less in Yellow).
As of now we have 5,251 or about 2.6%
We get 495 from the three Lasses on Route 3, 300 from the three bug catchers, and 375 from the two youngsters.
On the first floor of Mt. Moon we get 210 from two bug catchers, 150 from a youngster, 350 from a hiker, 375 from two lasses, and 275 from a super nerd.
On Mt. Moon basement we get 1170 from the four rocket grunts and 300 from the super nerd. (Yellow gets money from Jessie&James).
In Misty's gym we get 700 from her underlings, then get 2079 from Misty herself.
As of now we have 12,030 or about 6%
We grab 595 from our rival on Nugget bridge.
On Route 24 we grab 450 from two Lasses, then 140 from a bug catcher, 210 from a youngster, 450 from a rocket, and finally 710 from two Jr. Trainers.
On Route 25 we get 1165 from three hikers, get 690 from three youngsters, 280 from a Jr. Trainer, and 450 from two Lasses.
We get 525 from the Rocket that robbed the house in Cerulean City.
S.S Anne Floor 1 gets us 270 from a lass, 315 from a youngster, and 2590 from two Gentleman.
S.S Anne Basement gets us 2755 from five sailors and 595 from one fisherman.
S.S Anne Upper Deck gets us 1050 from two sailors.
S.S Anne Floor 2 gets us 530 from a fisherman, 315 from a lass, and 2830 from two gentleman. We also rob our Rival of 1300
We get 2740 from Surge's Underlings and 2376 from Surge himself.
As of now we have 35,361 or about 17.6% (At this point I will be putting route/dungeon totals, I think I've showed enough of my work to follow along.)
Route 11 gives us 8115.
Route 9 gives us 4,145.
Route 10 North gives us 360.
Rock Tunnel gives us 10,990.
Route 10 South gives us 2,820
Route 8 gives us 6,240
Rocket Hideout gives us 9,720
Lavender Tower gives us 11,160.
As of now we have 88,911 or about 44%
Selling two Nuggets for 10,000
Erika's gym gives us 9,851
Silph Co. gives us 38,684
Dojo gives us 4,175
Sabrina's Gym gives us 8,767
Route 16 gives us 4,010
Route 17 gives us 6,530
Route 18 gives us 2,225
Koga's Gym gives us 11,732
As of now we have 184,885 or about 92%
Route 12 gives us 5,565
Route 13 gives us 11,545
As of now we have 201,995 or about 100.01%

This means for Porygon you have Routes 14 and 15 on mainland, Seafoam Islands and the water routes around it, Pokemon Mansion, and Victory Road. (Power Plant if needed.) Not much time to get acquainted really.

Porygon

Porygon should stay in E-tier and if ever a F-tier is created, put Porygon in it.
Based on the findings, Porygon is only available for two gym leaders, the Elite Four, and some odd trainers when not grinding for coins.

Porygon starts at Level 26 in Pokemon Red or Level 18 in Pokemon Blue which is still not worth the extra 3000 coins... It is quite slow, beating out only four fully evolved Pokemon, one of which is purely optional (Snorlax). This means Porygon is tanking hits which it kind of can due to its decent bulk. Problem is Porygon relies on at least one TM to make a movepool, either Ice Beam or Thunderbolt (Thunder could work I guess). It will use Psybeam, Tri-Attack, Recover, and whatever TM you gave it. You could use whatever move set you like, but there aren't many other good options.

Porygon gets two shotted by Blaine, murdered by Giovanni, frozen by Lorelei's team (unless you gave it Thunderbolt or Thunder, even then still a challenge.), chopped by Bruno's Hitmonlee, Agatha actually can't do a lot besides confuse and sleep, and the Rival doesn't really care about it.

Even if you scrounged up enough coins, the best match Porygon has if you get Porygon right as you get to Celadon is Erika (Psybeam, but even then it still is a uphill battle.). Sabrina doesn't even care about Porygon's stab physical move, it doesn't do enough damage. Koga is the only match that is "equal" in the fact you just punch each other till the world ends.

Porygon is laughable in execution and even worse in accessibility. Like the game it is in, it barely functions and is glued together.

A couple of observations: If I remember correctly, you get two HP Ups (Route 2 and Mt. Moon), a Protein (Silph), an Iron (Rocket Hideout), a Carbos (Silph), and two PP Ups (Celadon and Rocket Hideout) before getting past the Snorlax, which adds to 34300. If I understand your chart correctly, this means you can get enough money for Blue Porygon by the time you clear the Lavender Tower if you sell vitamins.

You also get more Nuggets than what's listed on here. There's one in the Underground path to Celadon, one in the Team Rocket Hideout, one in the Nugget Bridge, one in the Copycat's house, and one in the Pokémon Tower. This adds 15000 extra money. After Erika's Gym, the Dojo and Silph, there's enough money to get Porygon without the need of dealing with Sabrina or getting past Snorlax according to your chart.

I'd still say it belongs to the (current) lowest tier based on your findings

 

[DrumstickGaming]

Many Hours your insanely detailed post about all the money you get for Porygon is absolutely amazing and you are incredible, seriously! Your dedication is very much appreciated (and can also serve as a benchmark for Hyper Beam TMs).

Also, I did a tiny bit on my run earlier. Just did Lavender Tower and have Zard now. Thinking of using Tentacool for my last member.

 

[Many Hours]

Many Hours your insanely detailed post about all the money you get for Porygon is absolutely amazing and you are incredible, seriously! Your dedication is very much appreciated (and can also serve as a benchmark for Hyper Beam TMs).

Also, I did a tiny bit on my run earlier. Just did Lavender Tower and have Zard now. Thinking of using Tentacool for my last member.

Thanks! I just wanted to see the minimum and maximum of Porygon, which isn't much of a difference by both solutions...

I did gloss over the fact you can sell Escape Ropes, and other similar Items (The useless TMs being the important note.), which would achieve some money earlier, potentially saving another land route for Porygon. At that point though, I'm chasing after how people play the game versus what is available. The Pay Day TM also allows some farming opportunities, but alas, not that much in the grand scheme of things.

A couple of observations: If I remember correctly, you get two HP Ups (Route 2 and Mt. Moon), a Protein (Silph), an Iron (Rocket Hideout), a Carbos (Silph), and two PP Ups (Celadon and Rocket Hideout) before getting past the Snorlax, which adds to 34300. If I understand your chart correctly, this means you can get enough money for Blue Porygon by the time you clear the Lavender Tower if you sell vitamins.

You also get more Nuggets than what's listed on here. There's one in the Underground path to Celadon, one in the Team Rocket Hideout, one in the Nugget Bridge, one in the Copycat's house, and one in the Pokémon Tower. This adds 15000 extra money. After Erika's Gym, the Dojo and Silph, there's enough money to get Porygon without the need of dealing with Sabrina or getting past Snorlax according to your chart.

I'd still say it belongs to the (current) lowest tier based on your findings

Yeah, that's why including immediate access once you reach Celadon is important. Porygon can honestly be higher in Blue version, but not that much higher. Not even really a tier change, just if you use one, do yourself a favor and pick Blue.

Hyper Beam Thoughts

The Hyper Beam TM is the one that opens a lot of doors for Pokemon that might have no doors to speak of. It cost 110,000 in money, which isn't that bad in comparison to Porygon, due to it being a upgrade on a Pokemon you are using and not a Pokemon itself. I think the important note for some Pokemon is having Hyper Beam before Sabrina's gym, which you will have enough money (mostly due to Silph Co.). For other Pokemon, having a 150 normal move is pretty sweet, hyper sweet even.

I think the Pokemon that Hyper Beam really changes the most is listed below:

Flareon, I don't know if a lot of people haven't used this or what, but this thing is actually decent without Hyper Beam, and just good with it. It patches up not using its brilliant physical attack stat, allowing you to manage until you get Fire Blast from Blaine. I don't think this makes this mon ridiculous, but it patches a few holes for it. The last time I used Flareon, I ran through Sabrina without Hyper Beam, so it probably would have a easier time with it. (I did get lucky with no special drops from the first Kadabra).

Tauros and Kangaskhan, this one is obvious due to the normal Stab, plus their amazing attack stat. Tauros is the only thing in the game that can punch through your Rival's Alakazam with one attack. Kangaskhan finally can get some OHKOs, which it rarely can with other normal moves (except Double-Edge which has problems).

The rest of the Pokemon of course get a upgrade (if they aren't Chansey), I mean 150 power normal move gives a OHKO opportunity to quite a few mons. I think detailing the availability of the TM is very important for this tier list, as like with other TMs, this potentially could allow some Pokemon to move up a tier if they can be given an upgrade right as they start struggling. Though this does mean some Pokemon would be over reliant for the TM, which is a contested TM to be sure.

I'll be taking a stab at a few of the Pokemon in A-tier later, I think S-tier is fine how it is. Though Alakazam breaks this game, while the others in S-tier merely get a lot of OHKOs. I think A-tier has a few stragglers that while really good, have a bit more of struggle than it seems. Diglett is the big one for me, while both Hitmonlee and Gengar have some glaring problems. I'll check back later with my thoughts and personal experiences on at least those three.

 

[DrumstickGaming]

Yeah Lee and Gengar are a little shaky. I think I’m using Lee in Yellow, and while it has Meditate, being a Fighting type in RBY, even the best one, is a backhanded compliment.

Gengar I will definitely use at some point. I’m a little hesitant on it. While it has great stats and can use good Special moves with TMs, therein lies the problem: TMs. Okay, Mega Drain isn’t contested at all, and to an extent, neither is Psychic (tho Eggs and Jynx need it), but Thunderbolt certainly is. To top it off, the moves get no STAB bonus.

I feel like on paper Gengar feels like a similar situation to Gyarados, only without the babying: in that it can be good with TMs, but the TMs are still an investment. I’ll have to use it to make an informed opinion.

Diglett one person said earlier was an overhyped B tier basically. Not surprised you have some reservations on it. Haven’t used it in a while, if not ever, but I think of all mons it feels the ban of X Accuracy the most. Though this ban is never being lifted because yeah, Dewgong being high in the old lists was kinda silly when it was only Horn Drill doing the work in reality.

Back to Dugtrio itself, I think people see the high level and the Surge matchup and go from there in terms of judging it. In reality, Dugtrio has paper bulk which likely spells doom for it at the League, since it is all but guaranteed you will be outleveled there (being relatively useless for Lance also kinda sucks, though there are Dragonair I guess). Being one of the better Agatha counters is definitely a positive though!

 

[Turdterra]

Back to Dugtrio itself, I think people see the high level and the Surge matchup and go from there in terms of judging it. In reality, Dugtrio has paper bulk which likely spells doom for it at the League, since it is all but guaranteed you will be outleveled there (being relatively useless for Lance also kinda sucks, though there are Dragonair I guess). Being one of the better Agatha counters is definitely a positive though!

You also need to remember that Dugtrio can dodge Poke Balls if the HP is not low enough, has a very low encounter rate, and can decimate your team trying to catch it. It's better to get Diglett you can sweep Surge with it anyway.

 

[Modulo]

Amazing discussion points brought up here.

While I agree Hitmonchan is possibly the worst Fighting-type in the game (with Machoke being the only other contender due to slowness), having access to a good Normal move without needing a premier TM as well as coming in at a decent level for itself puts it well beyond being a case for E-tier IMO. While its match-ups aren't great, it can contribute fine for basically no investment (bar the opportunity cost of not picking Hitmonlee, which we aren't taking into account here).

I've used Drowzee a lot in casual playthroughs and can easily see Hypno being A. Drowzee struggles a little early on, but Confusion is just around the corner (especially if you caught the lv. 13 one which is not that hard to find even without the Repel trick), and you cannot deny Hypno's effectiveness especially mid-game. I do think it's the worst mono-Psychic-type in the game due to having neither Kazzam's sheer power nor Mr. Mime's Thunderbolt coverage and outsider EXP, but being the worst Psychic-type is absolutely not a bad place to be in RBY.

Ad Porygon: I got my Hyper Beam TM shortly after Pokemon Tower with a fairly good, but certainly not optimal money route. Post-Silph I would definitely have had the money for Blue Porygon. That said, Porygon sucks and takes a huge investment to even get, so yeah, easy E-tier.

Ad Dugtrio, Gengar, Hitmonlee ->B: I can easily see Hitmonlee going to B; missing coverage aside from Normal doesn't salvage the fact that it's the only Fighting-type that learns decent Fighting moves.
Dugtrio I think should stay A; having constant access to a 100 BP STAB Ground move without ever needing a TM guarantees it a fantastic midgame as well as good matchups in many major fights (Koga, Blaine, Giovanni, Bruno, Agatha). It also is a very self-sufficient mon, although it does make a good recipient for the Rock Slide TM and any spare Protein you come across, as these investments lets it contribute in some fights/get some OHKOs it wouldn't be able to otherwise.
Gengar I'm not sure about due to lacking experience with it and it being quite a unique mon.

 

[DrumstickGaming]

I'm quite pleased this thread is picking up in activity!

Alright, so I'm gonna do a look at A tier right now, given the discussion has been picking up. Disclaimer: I haven't used many of these mons but I kinda want to lay them out on paper. I'm going to potentially use them in the future, but it's likely to be a slow go, given the fact there's only so many times I can run RBY before I get bored with it for a bit.

-Firstly, I merged Abra (no trade) and Abra (trade) into S. I don't think anyone can dispute the Abra line's effectiveness regardless if you evolve or not. It's an infamous game breaker that gets virtually everything it needs by level up, bar maybe Seismic Toss which is uncontested (same with Thunder Wave but that's also niche). Kadabra has a bit of a windup but nothing really threatens it aside from like, Misty, Sabrina, and Lance, which most teams in this game will struggle with, generally.

-Articuno and Zapdos I'm gonna cover together because they come in at virtually the same time and function similarly. Now, the biggest issue with these two is the availability. Coming after Koga (and likely Silph Co., as I assume we are Master Balling these guys) is pretty darn late. On the other hand, Articuno seems to start with Ice Beam, and for the cost of just one Rare Candy, learns Blizzard at level 51 (Zapdos gets Thunder which I think is pretty meh though there's no doubt it could take hits). I'm sure everyone here knows how crazy Ice is offensively in Red and Blue, not to mention the 30% Freeze rate of Blizzard), though Zapdos probably eating Lorelei alive really helps it. Both get the Reflect TM, while Zapdos also gets Light Screen via TM (or level-up too).

It's a little tricky to judge these two under typical testing terms, as it seems like due to their high level of 50, you are going to be exclusively using them for boss fights and little else. That being said, they both seem like they would brute force through everything with STAB moves. This all sounds fine and good, but I think both have a somewhat notable flaw in the fact that you have to go really out of your way for Articuno (a route and Seafoam Islands, which, while I haven't done it in a while if at all, I remember being kinda annoying) and Zapdos basically requiring Thunderbolt, which is one of the best TMs.

What do you guys think of these two? They are no doubt good, but I'm not sure if the average team needs them and they aren't the earliest things. They might stay A due to their high level, I don't know.

-Charmander we need more feedback on for sure. It doesn't have the best boss matchups ever and Slash doesn't seem to roll over everything (I'm making a list of stuff it leaves alive, which I will post alongside my run). Again, it shouldn't be dependent on how good the other starters are.

-Diglett I covered above.

-Vaporeon I'll need to use, but coming at level 25 is amazing for Eevee. I'd assume you'd give it BubbleBeam and Ice Beam, then Surf, and it'd perform with few issues. in other words, typical good Water Type.

-Hitmonlee and Gengar I covered above.

-Magikarp seems...debatable. I think the level of support it needs (Magikarp phase, several TMs) might drop it to B. Need more tests on it.

-Mr. Mime might be one of the better A tiers. I need to use it but Trade EXP + Psychic typing sounds utterly absurd. Ryota mentioned to me it might have a case for S and it doesn't sound that unreasonable, though catching an Abra is annoying.

-Sandshrew has been established as a firm A.

-Squirtle is also a firm A.

-Staryu I'll also need to use, but it seems like an A, only held back by the fact it really wants a lot of TMs.

Hope this little overview of A tier is helpful for discussion, though I know the birds were the only ones I gave super in-depth thoughts on (I'll need to use a bunch of these, again).

 

[Many Hours]

Since both Charmander and Squirtle are in A-tier, I thought I would also tackle Bulbasaur (complete the triangle and all that.).

Starters are very good in this game, but all three do very different things. Bulbasaur plays the role of a assassin (pick your targets), Charmander plays the role of a brawler (keeps going till it or the opponent dies), and Squirtle plays the role of a bully (doesn't have a lot of problems, but bullies others for having them). Let me explain.

Bulbasaur

I believe Bulbasaur belongs in A-tier.
Bulbasaur suffers from some awkward matchups throughout the game, wild and boss battles, an over reliance on getting Body Slam or Double-Edge (Take Down if you are cool), and Sleep Powder being locked behind a ridiculous level requirement. (Spore is level 30 for Parasect . . . ). But Bulbasaur does great once past that and the struggle battles aren't that bad, just slower, not nearly unwinnable. The only big struggle is Sabrina, and a smaller struggle is Blaine. The wild areas that cause issues are Mt. Moon with the zubats (Leech Life is only 20 power thank god), Lavender Tower, and Pokemon Mansion (It just becomes a slug fest in there.).

So what can Bulbasaur do? Well pretty much everything else. That is the really important part of Bulbasaur, you have plenty of time to pick up a new team member if you want (take a stroll, have fun!), all the way until after the Rock Tunnel in fact before it becomes necessary, which no other Pokemon can do. It does eventually require one of the Normal TMs, but at the same time Bulbasaur only needs one which there are three (four if we count Hyper Beam). When the argument of Bulbasaur requiring a TM comes up I'm very confused, does recoil suck? Yes, of course, but it is only being used for coverage, not the main money move.

Which brings me to Razor Leaf at level 30, and then a final evolution at level 32. Once this is gotten it can get through most trainers easily. Razor Leaf hits like a truck even resisted allowing it to 2HKO a lot. It always has a use from the first battle once gotten, to the very end of the game, even Sabrina doesn't have a guaranteed win against it and she has the best matchup.

Brock with Vine Whip is a joke, without it is still is a joke, Leech Seed and use Growl for the slowest match in history. Misty can cause issues, but type advantage, plus here the AI likes to use a X Defend when she is at a type disadvantage due to how the AI chooses moves. (Just to clarify, Misty will always have a minimum of 25.09% of using a X Defend on her Starmie. If so then Misty will choose between Harden and Tackle to hit with against Bulbasaur/Ivysaur, if no X Defend she could use any move with the most weight being on Tackle. After that she might choose any move the Starmie has, but she will more than likely be dead at that point.). Surge is pretty easy to beat even with Thunderbolt hitting like a truck, that's if he uses it. Erika can't beat Ivysaur/Venusaur without extreme bad luck on your part. Sabrina is dangerous, but you can kill her just as she can kill you. Koga can't do anything besides stall, and Venusaur wins stall wars. Blaine is a problem, but because of his stupid AI you can still win. Giovanni just loses, not much he can really do.

Lorelei is trading super effectives, though her Slowbro is hard countered by a Pokemon with Razor Leaf, and her Jynx might raise some issues. Venusaur will beat the Hitmons and the Onixs, while maybe struggling against Machamp (Maybe). Agatha is too boring to play through, but entirely winnable. Lance will spam Hyper Beam, so if you can tank it, Venusaur can kill Gyarados, Aerodactyl, and Dragonite (Stupid AI, lol). The rival has three Pokemon you can kill, while two of his can kill Venusaur, and we don't count Pidgeot.

The reason for A-tier depends on what you value about the starters. The starters and early Pokemon have the amazing ability of having so many battles that you can choose their winning matchups while preparing for their weaknesses. While having not has high peaks as the other two starters, I still think that Bulbasaur's consistency throughout the game deserves a A-tier, but at the same time I understand where people are coming from with B-tier. I just don't agree with all the points brought up and people bring up Bellsprout a lot as a "having the same value" when it doesn't have close to the same beginning or middle game, they just share the same role in the endgame, though Victreebel does it better than Venusaur.

Charmander

I think Charmander belongs in B-tier.
Charmander is the poster boy of mixed attacker in this game, mostly because it has to be a mixed attacker. It packs Ember as its fire move of choice for most of the game, can't learn fly in Red&Blue, and pretty much needs Dig to get through some of the game. Charmander also has a long road before getting good, namely the road blocks named Brock, Misty, and Surge. The only places that Charmander will have trouble traversing is Mt.Moon due to Geodudes and Rock Tunnel due to Onix and Geodudes/Graveler. (Victory Road is not being mentioned due to the fact of it being so late you will have something to go through it with.)

Charmander is a pretty speedy mon with eventually pretty good attack and special. This allows it to hit from any side of the defense spectrum. Run into a Chansey? Hit it with physical move. Run into a Cloyster? Hit it with special move. This is actually very similar to how Hypno is used, just on a faster mon. Slash at level 33 means you are gonna use Mega Punch on it (hopefully if you can), unless you want to use Scratch for a loooong time. Flamethrower at Level 46 means we get it for Giovanni and the Elite Four which is nothing to scoff at, though at that point we already will have Fire Blast from Blaine. Dig is the only thing you'll be able to use to help you in Rock Tunnel and the odd Hiker you fight against, while actually giving Charmander a better match up against a few of the bosses.

Brock is actually not that bad, just potentially long and could kill you with Bide. (Interesting note, getting a burn changes the Special AI depending if you are on actual cartridge or emulation, so weird stuff can happen.) Misty is the biggest problem, Bubblebeam hurts, and your best option is Mega Punch, you are more than likely losing this one a few times. Surge is actually troublesome, mostly because Raichu will hit you hard if you don't one shot it or are slower. Erika becomes California for a few minutes. Sabrina and Koga are just who can wear down each other first. Blaine is easy with Dig, without it is still winnable, just way slower. Giovanni is annoying without Dig, and being honest becomes more of hassle than it is worth.

Lorelei is super dangerous due to Ice being neutral to fire in this generation, meaning that Ice moves are super effective on Charizard. Bruno isn't a problem, but could take a bit of time due to Onix. Agatha is actually annoying without Dig, if the Gengar are faster, then even with Dig it is super annoying. Lance trashes Charizard and shows the fake dragon what is up. The Rival you have two easy Pokemon, two difficult ones, one very difficult mon, and we still don't count Pidgeot.

I feel like Charmander takes too long to get good and is shut down by many of the bosses in the game. Without Dig, you might as well drop your starter at that point, it becomes too much of a chore to use. Immunity to ground isn't worth the weakness to Ice, weakness to electric, and double weakness to rock. Access to no flying stab in Red&Blue really sucks, and would of really helped against Erika (didn't really need it), Sabrina, and Blaine.

Of the gym leaders it has two losing matchups, five "neutral" matchups, and one winning matchup. With the Elite Four it has two losing and two "neutral" matchups. Of course you use Dig to change how these matchups work and go, but this is still not a good ratio for it. This doesn't even cover the fact of how many Pokemon would do better with Dig in their arsenal. Burning bugs is cool, but not A-tier cool, not even close. I recommend B-tier for this fake dragon.

Squirtle

Squirtle belongs in A-tier.
This is gonna be shorter than the others due to me not having a lot to say on Squirtle.

Squirtle represents something that would become quite apparent in later games, water types are busted. Access to Surf, an Ice move, and a decent normal move make this thing the best starter hands down. Great defenses, and a great movepool allows it take on the entire game pretty quickly.

The only problem Squirtle has is that its water moves before Surf is quite weak unless you use the Bubblebeam TM on it and the normal move might not be the most accurate of powerful.

Brock is a joke with Bubble. Misty is actually annoying due to trading normal attacks, and her having Harden/X Defend, this isn't a for sure win. Surge is Squirtles worst matchup in the game, even the worst matchup of all the starters, there is very little you can do to enable a win with just Squirtle/Wartortle. (This is the biggest reason it will never be S-tier.). Erika isn't that bad if you gave it Ice Beam, but can still kill you if you get unlucky/unfortunate. Sabrina is not bad, not good either, just awkward fighting for a bit. Koga is more of the same, just less of a threat. Blaine and Giovanni pull a Titanic.

Lorelei can't do much, but it is a very slow fight. Bruno is a joke here. Agatha isn't much of a problem, just might take a little bit. With an Ice move Lance can't do a lot. The Rival has four Pokemon that take super effective hits from Water/Ice, while being able to hit Alakazam and Gyarados neutrally.

Really the only reason this is out of S-tier is the lack of power early on and very late in the game, while also having one of the worst matchups against Surge. 50/50 on Thundershock or Thunderbolt is not the way you want to live, especially since you can't kill it in one shot and it is faster than you.

I'll take a stab at the rest of A-tier in a bit.

 

[DrumstickGaming]

I appreciate the analysis of all three starters, but I hard disagree on Bulbasaur being A. Many testers in this thread as well as myself have said B. It has some periods where it has A potential yes, but it's just a slow mon in major battles. It can beat Erika and Koga, but it also 3HKOs or even 4HKOs them sans Koffing.

Swords Dance doesn't help either. Even at +6 Attack in my logs, Lance's Dragonite lived a Body Slam, and when you're at +6 and can't OHKO that is a problem, never mind the fact that anything higher than +2 generally makes me raise eyebrows.

Just because enemy mons can't threaten Venusaur doesn't mean it's worthy of A tier. It just...drops off so far after Surge, and doesn't really do anything all that noteworthy other than beat Misty and be okay for Lorelei (who can still threaten it). It mostly gets by due to the abysmal boss movesets and Ai of RBY more than anything.

Charmander in B is something I can at least see though. It does need some investment to get off the ground. I still need to finish my run though.

 

[Many Hours]

I appreciate the analysis of all three starters, but I hard disagree on Bulbasaur being A. Many testers in this thread as well as myself have said B. It has some periods where it has A potential yes, but it's just a slow mon in major battles. It can beat Erika and Koga, but it also 3HKOs or even 4HKOs them sans Koffing.

Swords Dance doesn't help either. Even at +6 Attack in my logs, Lance's Dragonite lived a Body Slam, and when you're at +6 and can't OHKO that is a problem, never mind the fact that anything higher than +2 generally makes me raise eyebrows.

Just because enemy mons can't threaten Venusaur doesn't mean it's worthy of A tier. It just...drops off so far after Surge, and doesn't really do anything all that noteworthy other than beat Misty and be okay for Lorelei (who can still threaten it). It mostly gets by due to the abysmal boss movesets and Ai of RBY more than anything.

Charmander in B is something I can at least see though. It does need some investment to get off the ground. I still need to finish my run though.

True, I prioritized the ability to tank a little too much in the write up, which isn't the goal. I wonder if Hype Beam would enable better match ups to be worth it? Not really important, just struck me as I'm writing this. I also overvalued the ability of being able to have choices for your team, especially since this is based on how just the Pokemon does, not how it matches or enables better teams.

A-tier is definitely off for Bubasaur now that I go back and read my reasoning, lol.

 

[DrumstickGaming]

True, I prioritized the ability to tank a little too much in the write up, which isn't the goal. I wonder if Hype Beam would enable better match ups to be worth it? Not really important, just struck me as I'm writing this. I also overvalued the ability of being able to have choices for your team, especially since this is based on how just the Pokemon does, not how it matches or enables better teams.

A-tier is definitely off for Bubasaur now that I go back and read my reasoning, lol.

Glad we came to an agreement.

I think Hyper Beam, when you already have to give up a pretty good TM in Body Slam to Venusaur, it’s just putting a Band-Aid over the problem that doesn’t truly solve anything. It’s getting by on the Hyper Beam mechanics than it is Venusaur being offensively capable.

Not to mention Venusaur literally doesn’t get any other offensive coverage, not even Earthquake.

It’s a shame. I wanted to like Bulbasaur, but you have to go so far out of your way to support it that it’s far worse in practice that how workable it looks on paper.

But hey, it’s better in FRLG at least.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Bulbasaur

Bulbasaur does look like B-Tier material, but I have to point out its utility on 2 very important early game Gyms that really let it get the ball rolling so you can have more flexibility with the rest of your team.

Brock isn't exactly the most exciting matchup. You either win by grinding a bit and spamming Vine Whip or you win because Leech Seed makes Bulbasaur very good on a war of attrition.

Misty is arguably Saur's biggest selling point. Where most other mons fail, it delivers.

It even gets an Electric resistance if things go south against Surge.

Saur isn't exactly the kind of mon that will just plow through the game, it has a lot of issues on the offensive end, but it's not really a deadweight and can contribute against the likes of Lorelei. It kinda needs that Body Slam TM tho. A bit of a high cost for what's essentially a team player. It only really needs that and Razor Leaf though, but there's not a lot of an offensive presence here.

Charmander

Awful. Abysmal. Atrocious.

The only good points I can really give to it are that it comes early and it tears through Viridian Forest.

Let's look at how bad it is. You like Ember? I hope so, it's the only Fire move you'll get until either Blaine has mercy on your soul and gives you Fire Blast so you can pretend you have a Fire-type 5 times until you run out of PP or Charizard learns Flamethrower... at Level 46. Can you imagine picking a Fire starter that actually doesn't have a good matchup against Erika? Yikes.

Then let's look at coverage. You get the Dig TM. At all costs. Otherwise, you really might as well not bother. Then you hold on to that one move until Level 33. Then you get what's arguably Zard's selling point in RBY. Slash.

Fellas, this is a move that is all but guaranteed to crit, an Earth-rending display of power. It has essentially 140 Base Power!

Do you know what has similar numbers? STAB Surf, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, and all those 95BP moves. 142.5. STAB Razor Leaf. 165. STAB EQ. 150.

Charizard's main claim to fame is getting access to a Normal move that deals almost the same damage Flamethrower would if it had it at a reasonable time.

This dad bod lizard is B-Tier if you're extremely generous. I'm not. Put this fool in C.

 

[Ryota Mitarai]

Another problem with Hyper Beam is that it takes *awful* amount of time to obtain. Even if you have the money, you are likely going to spend some time mashing the A button till you buy enough coins to actually buy it, which becomes annoying very quickly (Hyper Beam costs 5500 coins. Given you get 50 per one purchase, it means you have to make a purchase 110 times before getting Hyper Beam if you are not getting coins from somewhere else). So reliance on Hyper Beam is not something to be proud of at all and doesn't help Bulbasaur complete the game quickly and efficiently, given the amount of time spent on getting it the TM.

 

[Xator_Nova]

-Staryu I'll also need to use, but it seems like an A, only held back by the fact it really wants a lot of TMs.

I want to note that Staryu belongs to the Slow experience group, and it also joins somewhat underleveled. Its special attack matches Gyarados's and they have a similar movepool (Starmie trades physical power and Hydro Pump for Psychic STAB). Coupled with it having the same availability as the birds, and it makes me think that B Tier would probably fit more. If you had troubles KOing enemies with Gyarados, then Starmie should be the same story.

I just don't agree with all the points brought up and people bring up Bellsprout a lot as a "having the same value" when it doesn't have close to the same beginning or middle game, they just share the same role in the endgame, though Venusaur does it better than Victreebel.

What's the same role in the endgame that Venusaur does better than Victreebel?

 

[Many Hours]

I want to note that Staryu belongs to the Slow experience group, and it also joins somewhat underleveled. Its special attack matches Gyarados's and they have a similar movepool (Starmie trades physical power and Hydro Pump for Psychic STAB). Coupled with it having the same availability as the birds, and it makes me think that B Tier would probably fit more. If you had troubles KOing enemies with Gyarados, then Starmie should be the same story.

What's the same role in the endgame that Venusaur does better than Victreebel?

I meant to have Victreebel does better than Venusaur due to the extra points in attack. The role being a Grass type though. I'll edit that right now.

Writing on some of the A-tiers. I've used all of those in A-tier a few times besides Magikarp, I used that once a long time ago and didn't really have a great time with it.

Articuno

Articuno belongs in A-tier . . . barely.
Level 50 is amazing and it will have two stab attacks that hit on both defenses. It doesn't have a wild encounter rate, but it does need either good luck or the Master Ball to catch. It has very few problems, the main one being how late it is in the game (same with Zapdos).

The earliest point in the game you can get this mon is by rushing to Koga and beating him after Erika. The ideal path is to complete Silph Co. to get the Master Ball, then beat Koga, and then explore the Seafoam Islands to capture the thing. This leaves Sabrina (if you haven't fought her), Blaine, and Giovanni for the gym leaders. I'm not gonna really mention Sabrina as you more than likely beat her already, plus the matchup is easy for Articuno.

Blaine is a weird matchup, mostly due to the level difference and the insane special Articuno has making the sting of fire not hurt as much. Still not the greatest and should count as a negative against it (Edit: As Nova shows in a post the fight is pretty easy anyway, I put too much weight on Fire Blast from Arcanine especially since Blaine has Ember on the same mon.). (Even though Articuno gets Bubblebeam). Giovanni is 6 feet under for sure.

Lorelei is just neutral, though a great point is that you can't be frozen by her with Articuno. (Using Mimic against her Slowbro allows you to use Amnesia in the battle if you really have an interest in that.). Bruno is very easily swept, with maybe Machamp living a Fly. Agatha isn't that hard, but confusion can get annoying. Lance just dies (Gyara can do some damage though). Articuno will always have super effective moves against three of the rival pokemon, and a neutral exchange with the rest.

Overall, Articuno just requires no work and that's why it does well. Its matchups aren't spectacular, but it can just bulldoze through them due to the high special and high level.

Diglett

Diglett belongs in B-tier.
This is a Pokemon that seems like it has a lot going for it, which it does for sure, but there are quite a few problems, namely the end game that hurts it a lot. 100 power on Dig makes the middle game a cakewalk for sure and it gets Earthquake at the very start of the late game making it have an excellent STAB for sure. Slash at level 35 is great for everything else in the game due to it always getting a crit. Rock Slide is actually rather pointless on it.

Some people recommend putting Rock Slide on Diglett, which you should if you have nothing else that needs it, but it doesn't do much. I used a Dugtrio against the Rival's Charizard in Silph Co. before, both level 40, and I attacked it with Rock Slide. It didn't kill, it almost did, but this leads into the part of Diglett/Dugtrio that sucks.

80 attack will do well with a STAB attack, not with other moves that don't get STAB, and while it has a pretty high crit chance due to speed, it isn't all that often. The problem lies in the fact Dugtrio can't afford to not one shot. This is one of the most frail Pokemon in the game, so if it gets hit, it usually dies. Slash covers what it can't hit with Earthquake, but it isn't killing all the time.

Diglett does really well against Surge, but if you haven't evolved yet it can get scary due to Quick Attack crits. Erika has some evolved Pokemon that will manage to live an attack and kill it back. Sabrina isn't a bad matchup, but is a scary one considering it doesn't kill any of the Psychic Pokemon and they hit hard. Koga is super pathetic here. Blaine is in Dugtrios favor, but not a guarantee. Giovanni does get hit hard, but the defenses allow most of his mons to live and hit back. (At least the Nidos and Rhydon)

Lorelei is asking if you want a warranty on your device. Bruno is actually annoying due to the fighting types living and hitting you back, Hitmonchan can finally Counter! Agatha is a pretty easy win on Dugtrios part. Lance eats the mole alive. Your rival also murders it quite easily.

Of the 11 bosses available above it only "wins" four of them. The sad part is that it flat our loses four of them as well. The others have a good chance of killing it too.

Vaporeon

Vaporeon should stay in A-tier
Coming at Level 25 is pretty nice, and the amount of HP it has is pretty nice for tanking hits and dishing out damage with its amazing special. If you saved Bubblebeam for it, it gets access to two big moves right away. One of the problems is that it doesn't have a solution for fellow water types besides bite at level 40 or a TM. Once it has Surf this water type is really good and is a decent user of the Rest TM if you ever get in a bit of a bind.
Getting it right before Erika, and being able to use the Rocket Hideout in Celadon is a very nice perk as well.

While you could use Ice beam against Erika, it is super dangerous and you might lose. It does well against Sabrina, but without Surf it is troublesome, if you have it, the battle is a bit better. Koga is pretty easy for it. Blaine and Giovanni both die pretty easily.

Vaporeon and Lorelei don't get along at all. It is possible, but not a good time for anybody. Bruno is pretty easy, though Machamp can hit it on the weaker defense for a lot of damage. Agatha is just Surf with one/two Ice Beams till everything is dead. Lance only has his Gyarados that won't die in one hit. Your Rival gets half of his team swept and the rest aren't that bad.

The only big issue is the reliance on a Ice type attack TM and the fact you might not have the Bubblebeam TM to make its life easier.

Hitmonlee

Hitmonlee should move to B-tier
Hitmonlee packs a decent speed tier and quite a powerful punch. . . I mean kick. It lacks enough defenses to really be able to trade blows, but because it is the only fighting type that has a good fighting STAB means that it can usually handle stuff quite quickly with one attack. It shows up at level 30, which you can get if right after Rock Tunnel if you can get past the trainers guarding it. Rolling Kick at Level 33 will hold it over until the better moves later in the game, though Double Kick is just as good anyway. It is going to require a Normal move for sure, one of the TMs will have to do. (If you want no recoil, Strength is always an option.)

Against Erika, if gotten before the battle, it can actually do some damage, though I would be scared of the mons hitting back. Sabrina already has its gravestone ready. Koga is quite the irritant, but you can muscle through with a normal move if need be. Blaine is actually scarier than it sounds, a Fire Blast with STAB hurts against Hitmonlees measly 35 special stat. Giovanni is just a straight slug fest.

Lorelei loses three Pokemon though her Lapras can hit back hard. Bruno isn't much of an issue, but could potentially get the better of you. Agatha walls it with three ghosts, unless you want to Seismic Toss them to death, plus the Arbok probably won't die in one hit. Lance doesn't fear Hitmonlee at all. Your Rival only has one Pokemon that is weak to fighting, so yeah. . .

If only this Pokemon had Dig, then I could see it in A-tier for sure, but it doesn't. While a great neutral Pokemon, it doesn't do anymore than that, and I doubt it would one shot many of the boss Pokemon. It just doesn't have enough going for it.

 

[whatever123]

I agree with Articuno being A considering the availability and all that, but I wanted to mention that Blaine should 100% not count as a negative. It 1hkos the stronger mons with Blizzard (lvl 51, just use a rare candy) and the weaker ones get 1hkod by Ice Beam. Even if you miss a Blizzard (10% chance) it doesn't matter due to its massive bulk and level difference (the ai also loves using Ember over its other moves for no reason). It actually has one of the most dominant, if not the most dominant match up against Blaine.

Also, from my tests, outside of Lorelei (bad match up) and Agatha (good but not amazing), Articuno smashes literally everything else at level 51 with 0 effort (from Sabrina to Lance), so I would say that it does in fact have an amazing match up spread. I would also like to mention that from my experience the only moves you want to click as Articuno are Ice Beam and Blizzard. Fly actually seems to do less damage even on super effective hits, not to mention it takes 2 turns.

 

[Xator_Nova]

Yeah, I agree with whatever123 on this one, I've had Articuno beat Blaine handily before. Fire doesn't resist Ice in this generation, and thus it's not a difficult match-up. Lorelei is really the only questionable match-up.

EDIT: Since X Accuracy is not allowed, I'm also on board on dropping Diglett to B. Even if you catch a Dugtrio and assume it has an experience surplus over other allies due to its high join level, it's still underleveled for the Elite Four (Lv49-50), and it still faces issues against Lorelei and Lance. Dugtrio has troubles dealing with Flying types before getting Slash if you don't give it Body Slam, too. Dugtrio's only saving grace for the endgame is Fissure, and if we disallow that, then it hasn't much hope for the final bosses.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Dugtrio has troubles dealing with Flying types before getting Slash if you don't give it Body Slam, too.

Doesn't Dugtrio get Rock Slide though? Can't quite remember if it's before or after Slash, but you don't even need to deal with too many Flying-types between Surge and Celadon.

I dunno, I think it's too good for B.

 

[Xator_Nova]

Doesn't Dugtrio get Rock Slide though? Can't quite remember if it's before or after Slash, but you don't even need to deal with too many Flying-types between Surge and Celadon.

I dunno, I think it's too good for B.

You face quite a few, with the most important one being Blue's Pidgeotto in SS Anne

 

[Many Hours]

Doesn't Dugtrio get Rock Slide though? Can't quite remember if it's before or after Slash, but you don't even need to deal with too many Flying-types between Surge and Celadon.

I dunno, I think it's too good for B.

Dugtrio learns Slash at Level 35 which will be after Celadon is complete more than likely, so there is a reason to use the TM on it if you want to cover the three flying types available to fight before the completion of Silph Co.. Those being Zubat/Golbat, your Rivals crappy Bird, and some other pidgeys.

You could go to other routes for sure and fight the Fearows and Duduos found there, but there isn't really a reason to before the completion of Silph Co..

I am interested in why you think Diglett/Dugtrio is too good for B, I wanna know if there was something I missed so we can be sure of its placement.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I am interested in why you think Diglett/Dugtrio is too good for B

From what I remember, besides not being able to spam Dig against Flying-types, it's a really strong mon.

Even in Rock Tunnel, while it has to scrap a bit longer against the Zubat and occasional Pidgey trainer, it can straight up render the exploding Graveler, which are much bigger threats, irrelevant.

It can also run through Team Rocket, Incuding Giovanni to some extent, Blaine, Agatha and Koga, and I'm not even factoring Slash (or much of anything since I just woke up.).

 

[Many Hours]

Here is Gengar, will post the other A-tiers when I get some more time.

Gengar

Gengar deserves to be in A-tier
Gengar is the only ghost type in the game which would be super amazing if he didn't have that garbage poison type attached to it. You catch Gastly at Level 18 at the lowest, and potentially can catch a Haunter to bypass the need of a first stage. While not the greatest of starts, if given the tools Gengar is one of the best in the game. The problem is the two major tools belong to some of the most coveted of TMs in the game. Thunderbolt and Psychic allow this monster to terrorize the game. Rounding out the move set with a mix of Hypnosis, Dream Eater, or Mega Drain allows it to pretty much succeed in most battles.

Now comes the TM problem, Gengar needs at least two to work amazingly, it can also manage a decent showing with just Thunderbolt or Psychic, so there is a lot to think about when it comes to where to place it. Psychic, Thunderbolt, Mega Drain, and Hypnosis is probably the moveset that would be preferred, but it isn't the only one. Psychic is without a doubt better than Dream Eater, but if unable to give out the TM, it will work for a Psychic move. Thunderbolt doesn't really have a replacement for it besides Thunder, and that is a pretty big step down for it in the reliability department. So there are options available to it and I have run a Thunder, Mega Drain, Hypnosis, and Dream Eater moveset before which worked better than it should of. 130 special while being immune to Normal and Fighting is a really awesome feature.

I'll be writing three possibilities for movesets, even though there are plenty of them. This just gives an idea of what to worry about and what not to. Moveset 1 is All resources, Moveset 2 is Minimum resources, and Moveset 3 is Mixed resources.

Moveset 1: Psychic, Thunderbolt, Mega Drain, Hypnosis
Considering you can get Gastly and Psychic before Erika, that fight is a breeze. Sabrina is manageable, but you are taking super effective hits while throwing out neutral ones. Koga loses. Blaine has a hard time killing Gengar due to the high special, plus Psychic has that amazing effect. The only ground move in Giovanni's gym is Dig from his Dugtrio, and Fissure from Rhydon, this fight is pretty easily, especially since Dig is a two turn move.

Lorelei is actually pretty easy with spamming Thunderbolt. Bruno is a joke. Agatha, because of Psychic is a joke. Lance is actually incredibly weak to Gengar in general, with only 2 moves able to do direct damage, one being Dragon Rage, the other Hydro Pump. Your rival has 3 Pokemon that are easy to take down no matter the starter choice, Gengar does well against all the starters with Thunderbolt (Venusaur uses not very effective moves) along with the Gyarados. Pretty much the only challenge is the Alakazam, which is a straight loss.

Moveset 2: Thunder, Nightshade, Hypnosis, Dream Eater
This set plays much more like a wall than the other set while also having to rely on Hypnosis crappy accuracy. Erika still can't kill Gengar. Sabrina is possible, just more reliance on luck than before. Koga loses. Blaine is a little more difficult because of Thunder, but it is possible. Giovanni is actually still possible, but Dugtrio is a huge problem here considering you are gonna be playing with Hypnosis or Night Shade.

Lorelei is still not that big of a problem, Thunder wrecks havoc, as long as it hits. Bruno has the Onixs become actually Pokemon, but they aren't difficult. Agatha is just annoying, not hard, just takes forever. Lance is still unable to do much. Rival has an easier time, but still loses two Pokemon.

Moveset 3: Psychic, Mega Drain, Hypnosis, Dream Eater
Erika is easier with Psychic, so pretty easy. Sabrina at this point is insanely difficult. Koga still sucks. Blaine is the same as Moveset 1. Giovanni is easy to beat, just watch for Dig.

Lorelei is actually really annoying without a electric move, plus freezing could happen. Bruno is super pathetic. Agatha is pretty easy. Lance has a easier time using Gyarados, but Gengar still walls out the Hyper Beams. Your Rival only loses one Pokemon for sure, but it could probably manage something.

Overall I think Gengar just has too many options available to make the TM requirement push it down into B-tier. It does great against Bruno and Lance no matter the set, plus the only gym leader to worry about is Sabrina. That immunity to normal is also super amazing. I just can't help but think Gengar deserves A-tier.

Also, I get my favorite Pokemon is Gengar and all, but I don't think I was biased by that much.