Quality Control Pokemon Black 2 and White 2 In-Game Tiers

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Just some thoughts I had:

  • The typing section says that there aren't any Electric-type trainers to worry about, but surely Elesa is a thing? Elesa could probably be mentioned in Major Battles too I guess.
  • Minor nitpick: in Additional Comments, I would change "the other abilities" to "Thick Fat" just because it's the only alternative in this context.
  • I wonder if its poor Speed needs to be emphasized a little more? It's briefly mentioned in Stats but I would think it might be a problem late game when it has to take hits frequently and requires healing. The game does provide numerous heals though so it seems to be a minor problem.
  • Apparently there's a hidden Thunder Stone near the Pokemon Centre in Nimbasa City. Not sure what the normal strategy is for Jolteon in B2W2 but that might warrant a mention.
  • Needs to mention Volt Switch by Elesa's TM in movepool - it seems to be its only special STAB for quite a while. Thunder Wave TM can also be purchased in Nimbasa City Mart, allowing it much earlier access to the move.
Heatmor, Durant, Cryogonal, Mantyke, and Wailmer are on the regional Pokedex but not in this list. If they're unobtainable, shouldn't they at least be untiered? Also why are the untiered Pokemon in Pokedex order when everything else is alphabetical?


Here's some of my thoughts, although generally the top 5 entries are really well done imo.

  • I think its Special Defense deserves a mention in Stats as super effective coverage or strong special attack STAB moves can take it out quickly
  • In the E4, it does moderately I'd say, it does has good resistances against most Pokemon but coverage moves, such as special attacks like Flamethrower from Hydreigon or just generally strong special attacks like Psychic from Reuniclus do decent damage. I wouldn't mention all of this, but I'd just say to be wary of special coverage or just strong special moves in general
  • Just one thing I'd mention that Azumarill is quite bulky, but exceptionally powerful Pokemon will still be big trouble for it like Conkeldurr (eg. approximately 2HKOs Azumarill with Hammer Arm), nevertheless it is a solid pick against the E4.
Jolteon & Espeon
  • I think that its crucial to mention that these two have mediocre physical Defense, so if it doesn't defeat the opponent it can be hit quite hard which can make late-game opponents like the E4 quite troublesome for these two as they the Pokemon they use are generally bulky and hit quite hard as well.


A distant memory
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Back on my bullshit.

Starting from now I will aim to look at one entry a day (maybe two) and do some minor cleanup, looking for some further input to get these entries as solid as possible.

Starting with:

Name: Axew
Availability: Axew can be found in Mistralton Cave with a 20% Chance.
Stats: Average bulk, but above average Speed and a whopping base 147 Attack in its final form.
Typing: Dragon is solid all around, offering an excellent neutral STAB and useful resistances.
Movepool: Great offensive movepool with good physical coverage, but the real gems lie in Dragon Claw and Dragon Dance. It needs to be tutored Low Kick or Superpower, or learn Dig through TM, to beat Steel-types.
Major Battles: Axew does not have a single horrible matchup. Against most major battles, it is a matter of using Dragon Dance 1-2 times against an appropriate opponent and sweeping. Otherwise, you can make use of Axew's strength to deal heavy damage against those you cannot reliably use Dragon Dance against.
Additional Comments: Mold Breaker is the preferred ability as it allows Axew to bypass Sturdy. Do note that it is difficult to raise Axew in the beginning due to its late evolutions.

-Replaced Brick Break with Dig as a mention as the Brick Break TM (PWT) is too inefficient to get and Dig works just as well.
-Minor rewrites.

Name: Azurill
Availability: Azurill can be found in Floccesy Ranch with a 20% Chance. Its evolution, Marill, can be found in Route 6 with a 5% Chance.
Stats: Only really lacking in Speed, but Azumarill is both bulky and packs a real punch when using Huge Power. It has essentially 150 Base Attack.
Typing: Water is a great typing both offensively and defensively. Water STAB in general is a huge asset and are not too many Grass- and Electric-type trainers to worry about.
Movepool: Azurill gets access to Frustration as soon as it is obtained, and then Return immediately after the first gym. This goes well with its Normal typing and its evolution type. After evolving, it gets Aqua Tail at level 21, and later Waterfall and Superpower, and Ice Punch through tutoring.
Major Battles: It has uses against most of the gyms, just through sheer strength. Clay should prove no obstacle, and you can even smash through Drayden's Dragons. Against the Elite Four its sheer strength helps, but its low speed means that it will be relying on its bulk to pull through (and even that might not be enough). With Ice Punch you can take on Iris in a similar fashion, taking hits and firing back with super effective moves. Elesa is a problematic matchup since it is weak to Volt Switch and its bulk can only go so far.
Additional Comments: Only use Huge Power; all you need is to take advantage of that wonderful Attack.

-Removed other ability mentions altogether; Huge Power being a must use makes mentioning Thick Fat redundant.
-Adjusted Major Battles and Typing based on atsync's and Conni's suggestions.
-Minor rewrites.

Would definitely appreciate some more input and/or fact checking. I'll look at Cobalion in a few months at least in the next couple of days.


A distant memory
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Only looked at Cobalion today.

Name: Cobalion
Availability: Cobalion can be found on Route 13 as an interactive encounter.
Stats: Cobalion will rely on its high physical bulk and Speed. Its Attack stat average at best, and its special bulk is nothing spectacular.
Typing: Cobalion also relies on its typing. Steel/Fighting is great defensively, while it grants Cobalion a good offensive STAB.
Movepool: It starts off with Sacred Sword and Iron Head. These will be its main moves throughout the rest of the game. It will learn Swords Dance at Lv49 which will help it take down opponents easier with its subpar Attack stat.
Major Battles: Cobalion does not really struggle against what is left. Drayden will not be difficult to deal with. The only real problems are Marlon and Marshal, and needs to watch out against strong special attackers in the Pokemon League (e.g. Iris' Hydreigon).

-Added Conni's suggestions with regards to special bulk (though I want a little more input on mentioning league stuff in major battles since Cobalion should be outrunning most things and Caitilin's Reuniclus might be free in practice since you could just set up Swords Dance on Musharna).
-Minor rewrites.

Definitely would like a little more input on Cobalion before finalising it. I'll look at Espeon/Jolteon next time around.


A distant memory
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Name: Eevee - Espeon
Availability: Eevee can be found in the grass in Castelia City with a 5% chance.
Stats: As Espeon, Eevee has a high 130 base Special Attack. Its Speed sits at a high base 110. Bad physical bulk means it will take a lot of damage lategame.
Typing: Psychic hits Fighting- and Poison-type super effectively, which will give it some good matchups. Defensively, it can't go up against Ghost-, Dark-, and Bug-types.
Movepool: Evolving Eevee before Level 21 is necessary in order to learn Psybeam. Afterwards, Psychic and Morning Sun are Espeon's best level-up moves. Espeon also wants the Shadow Ball TM and Signal Beam from a Move Tutor.
Major Battles: For major battles, the best situation you can use Espeon in is against Marshall in the Pokemon League. However, with its high Special Attack and Speed, Espeon succeed in a lot of major battles, like against Marshall and Caitlin.
Additional Comments: Since Eevee evolves into Espeon through happiness, you can get Espeon really early in the game, but it will eat up some of your time.

-Rewrote the movepool section
-Added physical bulk mention as per Conni's suggestion
-Minor rewrites

Name: Eevee - Jolteon
Availability: Eevee can be found in the grass in Castelia City with a 5% chance.
Stats: Jolteon's Speed is at a high 130, while its Special Attack is a high 110. Bad physical bulk means it will take a lot of damage lategame.
Typing: Its pure Electric typing gives a good offensive STAB, but will leave it vulnerable to Ground-types.
Movepool: Jolteon has does not have much early on. Thunder Fang, Work Up, and the Volt Switch TM will suffice until Discharge. Signal Beam from the Move Tutor and the Shadow Ball team give it useful coverage later on.
Major Battles: Skyla and Marlon are Jolteon's best matchups. Its ability will also allow it to do very well against Elesa.
Additional Comments: A hidden Thunder Stone can be found near the Nimbasa Pokemon Center.

-Rewrote the movepool section, added Volt Switch as per atsync's suggestion
-Added physical bulk mention as per Conni's suggestion
-Added an AC section to mention Thunder Stone as per atsync's suggestion
-Minor rewrites

I'll look at Vaporeon, Elekid, and Lillipup next up, some input on those entries would be appreciated.
Heatmor, Durant, Cryogonal, Mantyke, and Wailmer are on the regional Pokedex but not in this list. If they're unobtainable, shouldn't they at least be untiered? Also why are the untiered Pokemon in Pokedex order when everything else is alphabetical?


A distant memory
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
I got you the first time; I have other priorities at this point in time.

Anyway (Exams were a thing that needed to be dealt with beforehand which explains the delay):

Name: Eevee - Vaporeon
Availability: Eevee can be found in the grass in Castelia City with a 5% chance.
Stats: Vaporeon is quite bulky with nice HP and Special Defense; it can also utilize its high Special Attack. It is, however, quite slow.
Typing: Pure Water-typing comes with two weaknesses in Grass- and Electric-type attacks, while it offers good offensive coverage.
Movepool: Very shallow. Vaporeon needs Aurora Beam for coverage so it is worth relearning if missed. Surf is obtainable from Cheren on Route 6. Work Up is a good boosting move. It learns Ice Beam, Blizzard, and Shadow Ball through TM.
Major Battles: Vaporeon can be used against Clay and its Ice coverage against Drayden. Can be used against some of Iris' Pokemon as well.
Additional Comments: It is recommended to complete one streak in the Battle Subway (Multi Train with NPC partner is the easiest) to quickly gain the Battle Points for a Water Stone.

-Added some of MellowBusiness' and Conni's suggestions
-Minor rewrites

Name: Elekid
Availability: Elekid can be found in the Virbank Complex interior with a 25% chance. [White 2]
Stats: Elekid and its evolutions are reasonably fast and have good attacking stats, so you can utilize both physical and special attacks.
Typing: Pure Electric-typing means that it is only weak to Ground-types. It can also beat up on Flying- and Water-types.
Movepool: It learns many Electric-type moves like ThunderPunch, Discharge, and Thunderbolt. Many of its best TM moves come late but it can make use of Return, Psychic, Flamethrower. You can also tutor it Ice Punch with the ten free Red Shards for coverage.
Major Battles: Even with Ice Punch, Electabuzz struggles in Clay's gym. However, it bounces back against Skyla. Marlon is even easier, especially if you traded right away to evolve into Electivire. If you have Ice Punch, it can do well against Iris.
Additional Comments: If you have access to trading it is worth evolving to Electivire; however, if you don't, Electabuzz is still good. It actually has higher Speed than its evolution and can abuse Eviolite.

-Minor rewrites

Name: Lillipup
Availability: Lillipup can be found in Floccesy Ranch with a 40% chance.
Stats: Very decent for a Pokemon you get early in the game, with above average bulk, an average Speed stat, and a pretty powerful Base 100 Attack in its final form.
Typing: Normal-typing gives you good neutral coverage offensively and a lone weakness to Fighting-types defensively. An immunity to Ghost-types is very nice.
Movepool: Lillipup comes with a very good level-up movepool with Tackle and Bite early on, Crunch and Work Up coming not too far afterwards, and the elemental fangs later on in the game via Heart Scales. Dig and Return stand out as notable TM's to teach Lillipup, and Superpower via Move Tutor.
Major Battles: With the exception of Marshal, there is no matchup in the game that stands out as terrible for Lillipup. Against virtually every matchup, Lillipup will be able to reliably make a decent contribution towards the battle, especially in the early gyms, whether it be taking hits or dishing out the damage.

-Minor rewrites

Name: Litwick
Availability: Litwick can be found in Celestial Tower's 1st Floor with a 100% chance.
Stats: Litwick starts with terrible speed and mediocre bulk. Once it evolves, it has amazing special attack, alongside passable bulk and speed.
Typing: It has good STABs to work with, and a nice immunity to work with. Fire-typing complements Ghost's inability to hit Steel-types well.
Movepool: Comes with Flame Burst and a Hex + Will-O-Wisp combo. Shadow Ball, Fire Blast, Energy Ball, and Calm Mind are all good TMs to teach it.
Major Battles: Easily KOes most normal trainers after evolution, but does not shine particularly against the remaining Gyms or the Elite Four. Only advantageous match is versus Caitlin, but be careful of Shadow Ball on Gothitelle and Sigilyph. Colress goes down easily from its firepower.

-Placed more attention to the Litwick phase since it is relevant for a good 8-14 levels.
-Minor rewrites

Name: Oshawott
Availability: Oshawott is one of the three starters you pick from at the beginning of the game.
Stats: Balanced stats across the board, with some emphasis in Attack and Special Attack.
Typing: Water-typing gives it a nice variety of options, but it does not give Oshawott a lot of strong matchups throughout the game.
Movepool: Oshawott gets interesting movepool options, most notable being Megahorn from the move relearner (or X-scissor from TM), Superpower from move tutor, and Ice Beam and Blizzard from TM. It also gets Swords Dance, allowing it to pull off sweeps on some foes.
Major Battles: Oshawott is one of the best options against Clay, an otherwise difficult battle. Its coverage options make it a strong pick for Drayden as well. In the Pokemon League, it shines as a backup to almost everything, with a strong varied movepool to pick off weakened teams.

-Minor rewrites

Name: Petilil
Availability: Petilil can be encountered in the grass in Castelia City with a 35% chance in White 2 or can be traded for on Route 4 in Black 2.
Stats: Lilligant has a high base 110 Special Attack, which is supported by a solid base 90 Speed.
Typing: Grass is not a particularly good type because several common types resist it. It also has five weaknesses, although resistances to Ground and Water are quite helpful.
Movepool: Lilligant has a thin movepool with limited coverage, but it has everything it needs to work. As a Petilil, it has early access to decent STABs in Magical Leaf and Giga Drain. After that, Petilil has no particularly important moves, so you can evolve it early to gain Quiver Dance at level 28. At level 46, it learns Petal Dance, which makes it an even better sweeper.
Major Battles: Lilligant works best against Elesa, Clay, and Marlon. Its typing isn't particularly helpful against the other Gyms or the Elite 4.
Additional Comments: Petilil can be evolved with the Sun Stone obtained in Nimbasa City, but waiting until Level 28 for Quiver Dance is recommended. Own Tempo is recommended to prevent Petal Dance confusion, which the traded Petilil comes with.

-Minor rewrites

Going from Pidove next time.
Are there any plans of continuing this? I wouldn’t mind giving my two cents on some of the rankings. But I wanna make sure that the author intends on continuing this first.


A distant memory
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I've (finally) come to the conclusion that this list wasn't ready to be put on site just yet, so I've decided to open up a new thread here back in the in-game tier list forum to give it the quality control it really needs.

My apologies for taking this long before making a conclusion. I would like this thread to be locked for now. Thank you.
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