Metagame Partners in Crime

[jasprose]

Special announcements :D
First of all, thank you to everyone who's been playing and enjoying this meta, it's thanks to all of you that this is now on main as a rotational :)
Second of all, huge thanks to AmirAlexander for making the wonderful new banner :D
And last but not least, Akumeoy has started to work on a PiC viability ranking (https://pastebin.com/9f7Phqxc) and I would love it if as many people as possible contributed to it :)
Once again, thanks everyone!

 

[HeatEdgeSword]

Special announcements :D
First of all, thank you to everyone who's been playing and enjoying this meta, it's thanks to all of you that this is now on main as a rotational :)
Second of all, huge thanks to AmirAlexander for making the wonderful new banner :D
And last but not least, Akumeoy has started to work on a PiC viability ranking (https://pastebin.com/9f7Phqxc) and I would love it if as many people as possible contributed to it :)
Once again, thanks everyone!

Okay then, I have some noteworthy nominations for the viability thread.

Kyurem-Black >Tier 1
Kyurem Black is easily one of the best Pokemon in my humble opinion. It provides powerful coverage and serves as a fantastic answer to teams that are reliant on abilities, especially type immunity ones.

Serperior > Tier 2
Contrary serves as a great counter to Intimidate for the team, with Serperior also being a capable Pokemon on its own.

Mega Camerupt > Tier 3
Don't get me wrong, it is a powerful Pokemon, but it only fits on Trick Room team.

Suicune > Tier 3
Having Inner Focus is nice, but I don't think Suicune deserve the Tier 2 spot with its lackluster firepower.

Arcanine > UR
Is there really any reason to use it over Incineroar? Incineroar provides utility options to the team such as Fake Out and Knock Off that Arcanine does not.

Mega Sceptile > UR
Having Lightning Rod sounds good in theory, but Mega Sceptile having too many type weaknesses mean it will fall flat in practice.

Mega Alakazam > UR
I don't see any point of using Mega Alakazam when Deoxys is available, who don't take a mega slot and having access to more appealing attacks. Might have been for Trace, but randomly copies a foe's ability makes it impractical.

I might update if I come up with a concrete reason for other Pokemon.

 

[CactuzFarmer]

Think I found a glitch, so I sent out nine tails and sandslash and sandslashes snow warning activates before ninetails despite being slower which is a problem because I want to run icy rock on ninetails. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7partnersincrime-832967691

 

[urkerab]

Think I found a glitch, so I sent out nine tails and sandslash and sandslashes snow warning activates before ninetails despite being slower which is a problem because I want to run icy rock on ninetails. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7partnersincrime-832967691

Unfortunately partner abilities aren't real abilities and they activate before own abilities, i.e.:

1. The slower partner's ability activates on the faster partner
2. The faster partner's ability activates on the slower partner
3. The faster partner's own ability activates
4. The slower partner's own ability activates

 

[Author_Pendragon]

Think I found a glitch, so I sent out nine tails and sandslash and sandslashes snow warning activates before ninetails despite being slower which is a problem because I want to run icy rock on ninetails. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7partnersincrime-832967691

Just run Icy Rock on Sandslash 0_0
(Don't take this seriously)

 

[CactuzFarmer]

Unfortunately partner abilities aren't real abilities and they activate before own abilities, i.e.:

1. The slower partner's ability activates on the faster partner
2. The faster partner's ability activates on the slower partner
3. The faster partner's own ability activates
4. The slower partner's own ability activates

Damn light clay it is then

I also had a game where (under trick room) my gastro got skill swapped Download but it didn’t activate on my stakataka is this a bug or not?

 

[urkerab]

I also had a game where (under trick room) my gastro got skill swapped Download but it didn’t activate on my stakataka is this a bug or not?

Yes, there is a bug in ROM's code for Skill Swap. It will be fixed next time I hotpatch. Thanks for the report.

 

[Billybobman]

I'll try to add a few thoughts of mons for the viability ranking.

Crabominable UR -> Tier 3, Frost Breath + Anger Point + Trick Room/BeingFaster is pretty strong in my opinion. Plus if your mon has a bunch of attack stat drops, you can just use frost breath on it to maximize its attack.

Meowstic M UR -> Tier 3, Prankster is a pretty strong ability imo. It has access to skill swap which can ruin strategies like Dancer and Boombust Spam. Offensively, it lets you get rid of unaware. It also lets you use regigigas. Prankster screens help your team to survive the very powerful attacks in the meta.

Regigigas -> UR -> Tier 4
I believe it requires specific support (prankster skill swap). It forces the mon you skill swap slow start onto to switch out. Regi is way more reliable than slaking imo.

Here are some replays of me using these mons:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7partnersincrime-843455611
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7partnersincrime-833725245

 

[CactuzFarmer]

Skill swap is still buggy just had a battle crash because of it

Also is it possible to implement a pic+aaa meta game on the ROM server I played a tour in toursplaza with that format and it was super fun

 

[urkerab]

Someone somewhere asked me what happens when you mix Water Absorb, Liquid Voice, and Perish Song.

Well, we know Liquid Voice changes Perish Song to Water type. However, Water Absorb doesn't absorb your own Water type moves, so it won't absorb Aqua Ring or Withdraw, and it also won't absorb Water type Heal Bell or Perish Song.

Your partner's Water Absorb will of course absorb your Liquid Voice Perish Song, but that already works in standard Doubles play.

 

[urkerab]

Skill swap is still buggy just had a battle crash because of it

Ah, I'd forgotten about that! Is it possible for you to do a playtest on ROM code to see whether my fix for the Download bug also fixes that crash? I think Abyssal Bot has a few teams so you can try challenging it (don't expect it to give you much of a battle though). If it does then I can submit a PR to get main fixed and Skill Swap unbanned again.

 

[CactuzFarmer]

Ah, I'd forgotten about that! Is it possible for you to do a playtest on ROM code to see whether my fix for the Download bug also fixes that crash? I think Abyssal Bot has a few teams so you can try challenging it (don't expect it to give you much of a battle though). If it does then I can submit a PR to get main fixed and Skill Swap unbanned again.

So i tested it a bunch of times and as far as I can tell it’s fixed, the abilities activated for both mons not just the one that got skill swapped and there was no crashes. Ps did you see my post about putting a PiC+aaa meta on the rom server? Is that possible?

 

[urkerab]

So i tested it a bunch of times and as far as I can tell it’s fixed, the abilities activated for both mons not just the one that got skill swapped and there was no crashes.

Great, I'll submit to main in that case.

Ps did you see my post about putting a PiC+aaa meta on the rom server? Is that possible?

I originally thought it sounded a bit overpowered but apparently that pales into comparison alongside stuff like STAAABmons CAP. I've added it but I'm not sure how the banlists will interact...

 

[CactuzFarmer]

Great, I'll submit to main in that case.

I originally thought it sounded a bit overpowered but apparently that pales into comparison alongside stuff like STAAABmons CAP. I've added it but I'm not sure how the banlists will interact...

Yeah the banlist is a bit weird because it’s using an OU banlist instead of DOU banlist, also I did a quick test of it and abilities and moves weren’t shared

 

[urkerab]

Yeah the banlist is a bit weird because it’s using an OU banlist instead of DOU banlist, also I did a quick test of it and abilities and moves weren’t shared

Ah, of course, I should have used the AAA Doubles banlist in the first place. Also due to an oversight I'd forgotten to enable a crucial part of the ability sharing code. Sorry about that.

 

[CactuzFarmer]

Ah, of course, I should have used the AAA Doubles banlist in the first place. Also due to an oversight I'd forgotten to enable a crucial part of the ability sharing code. Sorry about that.

Sorry to pester you but just did another test sharing works fine now but I think it is now using OU banlist and DoU banlist as it says for instance shaymin-sky and baton pass is banned by gen 7 OU, also this might be to hard to code if it is don’t worry but say I wanted to use sand rush mega-tar if I set sand rush as the ability in the builder it gives me sand rush pre-mega tar and the sandstorm post mega which is obviously useless would there be a way to set sandstorm as the pre mega ability and sand rush as the post mega ability? Anyway thanks for doing this I greatly appreciate it

 

[urkerab]

Sorry to pester you but just did another test sharing works fine now but I think it is now using OU banlist and DoU banlist as it says for instance shaymin-sky and baton pass is banned by gen 7 OU

OK, I guess I must have the wrong banlist for AAA Doubles in that case... I'll have to look that up at some point to correct that.

also this might be to hard to code if it is don’t worry but say I wanted to use sand rush mega-tar if I set sand rush as the ability in the builder it gives me sand rush pre-mega tar and the sandstorm post mega which is obviously useless would there be a way to set sandstorm as the pre mega ability and sand rush as the post mega ability? Anyway thanks for doing this I greatly appreciate it

That makes no sense, that's not how AAA works...

 

[Billybobman]

Just for sharing, I think Sharpedo may have some use in this meta.
I added sets below:

https://pokepast.es/067095f36a52e98b (My EVs and Natures aren't perfect)
I think Balstoise and Sharpedo have decent synergy since they both utilize pulse moves and fake out gives you speed boosts. Sharpedo also has access to Destiny Bond which I find to be a very useful move. Also, Blastoise provides Water Spout which can do plenty of damage, but you have to be careful because a lot of teams run water absorb or storm drain.

One way to use destiny bond is to make sure you are faster than your opponent when you use destiny bond, then make sure you are slow when you attack. Blastoise provides a number of ways to move last with Focus Punch, Mirror Coat, Counter, and Dragon Tail. This way you basically always have destiny bond up. This was a useful strategy towards the end of the, OM, Shared Power's run.

Btw, Mega Launcher boosts Water Pulse, Aura Sphere, Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, Heal Pulse, and Origin Pulse. Blastoise has access to all the highlighted ones.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7partnersincrime-851747091
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7partnersincrime-851689812

 

[CactuzFarmer]

Trace is bugged instead of copying one ability it traces two, I had a battle before v a mega zam and blazeiken and my opponent ended up tracing both my abilities and lost speed boost in the process. The battle I linked isn’t that battle but you can see it’s bugged it should only trace one ability, happens turn 5 after working normally in previous turns, not sure if it’s due to switch mechanics of if it can even be fixed but thought I should report it https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7partnersincrime-875327332

 

[The Meat Man]

hey, so i run mega sableye and whimsicott for prankster, but it doesnt seem sableye get the prankster. is this a bug?

 

[urkerab]

you can see it’s bugged it should only trace one ability, happens turn 5 after working normally in previous turns, not sure if it’s due to switch mechanics of if it can even be fixed but thought I should report it https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7partnersincrime-875327332

I the difference is that at the start of the game there's time for Trace to fire before the switch in notification that allows the code to add the partner ability, in which case it copies the Traced ability, but if you switch manually then Trace itself gets copied and therefore both partners get a chance to Trace an ability. It might be possible to fix this but it would require special-casing Trace so that only the copied Ability gets shared with the partner.

hey, so i run mega sableye and whimsicott for prankster, but it doesnt seem sableye get the prankster. is this a bug?

When both Pokémon have the same Ability then it doesn't get shared. If an Ability is changed in some way then the new Ability does get shared, however the old ability isn't getting shared with the Pokémon whose Ability changed. I think there might be a bug in the reverse behaviour too (if you run Mega Banette with Whimsicott you get double priority on Banette).

 

[Greenheroes]

I would like to suggest smeargle to be suspected.

first of all, it can share every single moves combo with it's ally and is the only pokemon with access to geomancy in pic.
second it has every single moves that benefit from it's ability, technician, which the ally can use as well.

For example, the most common team I encountered was based around smeargle sash with geomancy+thundurus with power herb
turn 1 smeargle use mat block and thundurus geomancy, if you don't have feint+ a rock or an ice physical move/a phazing move/haze (both last ones imply your team is quite passive), turn 2 thundurus KO anything with oblivion wing from smeargle/thunderbolt and smeargle can also use spore or follow me or wide guard since there's a big chance he last move is one of these or it psych up then baton pass the boosts to an ally that has stored power, and both monsters clean, all thanks to smeargle.
there's also the possibility of a double banefull bunker on turn 1, followed by a very hard setup like shell smash.
Would the answer be to kill the smeargle, nope,
the ally got plenty of time to setup before you can do anything and once smeargle died, it can go worse with psych up, again.
(it smh combo very well with swoobat too, cause it has simple, stored power and psych up)

It's like to try to handle chaos, you can't.
I think a suspect (and a ban) is deserved.

 

[HeatEdgeSword]

Greenheroes, I'm going to disagree with some of your points regarding Smeargle.

second it has every single moves that benefit from it's ability, technician, which the ally can use as well.

I don't think Smeargle being able to pass Technician worth mentioning since Smeargle is too frail to stay in the field after its task of providing Geomancy and momentum with Fake Out, Spore or Follow Me is done. None of its prominent partners even needs the Technician boost to sweep anyway.

a phazing move/haze (both last ones imply your team is quite passive)

I don't agree with that statement. While Haze is rare, Roar/Whirlwind is actually a solid countermeasure against Trick Room and Dancer team, given how common they are, the move can find themselves effective in most spots.

there's also the possibility of a double banefull bunker on turn 1, followed by a very hard setup like shell smash.

What can they even do with Baneful Bunker? I don't recall a majority of the Pokemon wants to touch Smeargle or Thundurus directly.

While I don't think Smeargle is overpowered, it is definitely overcentralizing. I'm not trying to say that we shouldn't be suspect testing Smeargle, but we got enough time to know what Smeargle is capable of already and there's no new unhealthy element of it discovered, so a council vote might be fine enough.

 

[Megumin XP]

Okay then, I have some noteworthy nominations for the viability thread.

Kyurem-Black >Tier 1
Kyurem Black is easily one of the best Pokemon in my humble opinion. It provides powerful coverage and serves as a fantastic answer to teams that are reliant on abilities, especially type immunity ones.

Serperior > Tier 2
Contrary serves as a great counter to Intimidate for the team, with Serperior also being a capable Pokemon on its own.

Mega Camerupt > Tier 3
Don't get me wrong, it is a powerful Pokemon, but it only fits on Trick Room team.

Suicune > Tier 3
Having Inner Focus is nice, but I don't think Suicune deserve the Tier 2 spot with its lackluster firepower.

Arcanine > UR
Is there really any reason to use it over Incineroar? Incineroar provides utility options to the team such as Fake Out and Knock Off that Arcanine does not.

Mega Sceptile > UR
Having Lightning Rod sounds good in theory, but Mega Sceptile having too many type weaknesses mean it will fall flat in practice.

Mega Alakazam > UR
I don't see any point of using Mega Alakazam when Deoxys is available, who don't take a mega slot and having access to more appealing attacks. Might have been for Trace, but randomly copies a foe's ability makes it impractical.

I might update if I come up with a concrete reason for other Pokemon.

Agreeing with what HeatEdgeSword said, I think Serperior and Kyurem-B shoud rise to Tier 2 and Tier 1 respectively.

Kyurem-B has very powerful stats in general, having a very solid bulk and a decent speed tier, outpassing threats like the Oricorios, Kommo-o, Heatran and Lando-T (If not scarf) and speed tying with Tapu Lele and Zygarde. It also has the power to wallbreak through a decent number of teams, at the same time helping allies with a very useful coverage in Ice Beam, Fusion Bolt, Earth Power and Roost. It can pressure cores and teams that rely on inmunity abilities and others like Unaware Fable, fitting very well in almost any team (I've especially tried it in Rain Teams to break through Gastro's Storm Drain and it actually works very well).

And Serperior I think is one of the best support mons on the meta.It has a very great speed tier outpassing the 110 frontier and it's ability can be really useful if partnered with mons like Victini, Mega Manectric or decreasing stats moves in general. Serperior, as HeatEdgeSword said, can abuse opposite Intimidate to boost physical allies, also having acces to Glare, that can cripple opposite pokemon that rely on their speed tier like almost every offensive mon in the meta (except for slow wallbreakers and Trick Room abusers), and Taunt, that can be a headache to teams that rely on utility moves like Dancer Teams or TR Teams.

I'm not very fan about Mega-Camerupt falling to Tier 3, though. Even if it only works in Trick Room, TR is currently one of the best playstiles in this meta, potentially for Gastrodon and Mega-Camerupt. Actually, it got a 8,7% / 11,52% / 23,6% / 35,4% usage in 1000 / 1500 / 1630 / 1750 elo respectively this month (even if I don't really understand how because I remember that the best players where around 1520 elo, but meh, official stats are official stats after all).

 

[Megumin XP]

Does someone know why the fourth most used Mega Swampert set this month was like this?

140 HP / 252 Atk / 116 Speed (Hasty Nature)

I've tried to understand this but I actually couldn't. I can understand using a not -SpA Nature because of using partner's Ice Beams can be a viable option in some situations, but why that 140 HP and not +Atk Nature? I mean, if 5% of Mega Swamps last month were like this, it has to be because of something. (I'm actually interested on this because my main playstile is Rain Hyper Offense, and if this set it's a kind of lure to something, trying it would be nice, but not if i don't actually know how it works xd)