Resource Other Metagames Index - Ask Questions Here!

Ransei

Garde Mystik
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
How Often Do You Guy Added A New Metagame?
If you're referring to Smogon, metagames are added over once they get quality checked and approved by the OM Submissions QC team. This can sometimes take up to weeks or months depending on each format's case. When they get added is dependent on when people have new ideas to submit and when an idea gets approved afterwards.

For more info about this: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...formation-announcements.3656519/#post-8296313

If you're referring to Pokemon Showdown, we pick formats out of our existing pool of Other Metagames each month. The formats that get picked become available to play on Pokemon Showdown's ladder for the month following. Two formats are picked total. One by the OM community (OM of the Month) and one by OM leadership (Leader's Choice).

For more information about this: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/other-metagames-index-ask-questions-here.3656451/#post-8287255
 
If you're referring to Smogon, metagames are added over once they get quality checked and approved by the OM Submissions QC team. This can sometimes take up to weeks or months depending on each format's case. When they get added is dependent on when people have new ideas to submit and when an idea gets approved afterwards.

For more info about this: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...formation-announcements.3656519/#post-8296313

If you're referring to Pokemon Showdown, we pick formats out of our existing pool of Other Metagames each month. The formats that get picked become available to play on Pokemon Showdown's ladder for the month following. Two formats are picked total. One by the OM community (OM of the Month) and one by OM leadership (Leader's Choice).

For more information about this: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/other-metagames-index-ask-questions-here.3656451/#post-8287255
wow thank you alot for for the information
 
Hello.

I was in the Metagame Workshop coming up with an idea for a new OM that’s about Max Move you can see here for context.
Given the nature of the Metagame, is it alright to tier Gigantamax Forms from regular Forms, or would both forms have to be tier the same?
 
  • Ban Bird: All Bird Pokemon are banned. (Flying Type + Bird based pokemon)
Does MissingNo. count? It's BIRD type, but is neither based on a bird (to my knowledge) nor is flying type. (I know it's normally illegal, but that's not the point.)
 

yonitet

Banned deucer.
HI!
I want to suggest an OM that i had thought of a few hours ago and have found it to be very enticing. Many moves in Pokemon get overlooked due to their low PP, which this OM will try to fix. Essentially, all moves above 70 BP are banned (and a few other exceptions). This will bring a new flavour to pokemon, and make it slightly slower paced, but there will be balance changes to ensure it doesn't just become an OM full of stall. Please keep in mind that i'm a BDSP player and do not have much experience with National Dex formats.

70 BP is an odd middleground for moves, and i hope this OM will break that. I particularly picked 70 BP, as it is high enough to allow moves like U-Turn and Volt Switch, while disabling the most common moves in competitive Pokemon. This BP tier is also noteable for banning Punching Moves, while still allowing Fang moves and all priority moves other than Extreme Speed.

Base BP: Move's BP will be accounted for before any modifiers. For example, If Mega-Gardevoir is to use Secret Power (70BP) it woud be boosted by Pixilate to be boosted to 84 BP, but would still be legal. Same applies to Sheer Force.

Terrains: Terrains give a noteable boost to the BP of their respective types. I am not sure how to make this properly balanced and will require help with this. This concern of mine is mostly caused by Pokemon like Rillaboom, which will be able to freely spam moves like Grassy Glide and U-Turn, as they already were.

Since i haven't gotten to test this idea, i'll probably need some help/ feedback, so please do! Without further ado, let me explain some more complex bans:

Bans:

Technitian - In a tier where the strongest moves are 70 BP, Technitian will be essentially cheating, as any Pokemon with it will deal a much greater overall damage than those without it.

Moves Stronger than 70 BP* - To fit the theme of the OM, a few moves will have to be banned to ensure an overall balance. Moves like Facade, Knock Off and Acrobatics will all be banned, as they are potentially much stronger than the intended maximum BP. Triple Axcel is most likely Banned.
Clarification: Moves like Avalanche, Assurance, Bullet Seed will be legal, as they need to fit a certain uncontrolled criteria to be strong, unlike those that can be intentionally made stronger.

Healing Clause - Because the BP of everything will be significantly lower, a healing clause will need to take place. I have no research, but can speculate that healing moves will need to get a significant PP drop to not make defensive teams overwhelming. If worst comes to worst, Leftovers can also be banned.

Maybe's

This section will be dedicated to things that can be potentially unhealthy but without testing, can't be proved so;

Sheer Force - Like Technitian, Sheer Force offers a significant enhancement in offensive pressure, especially when BP of Sheer Force moves is almost double that of standard Pokemon.

Weight Moves - Weight Moves fit the criteria of not being dependant on the user, rather the target, but they can be much stronger than the intended maximum. Moves like Grass Knot and Low Kick seem to be fairly balanced, as their BP is target dependant, but moves like Heavy Slam and Heat Crash seem borderline broken, as they are very often given to very heavy Pokemon, making their damage output insane.

Seismic Toss - Seismic Toss and other simmilar moves like Night Shade seem like they could be potentially broken, as they are often used by defensive tanks like Blissey, and offer high offensive pressure without any investment, made even worse when they can't be KO'd easily due to low BP.

Hidden Power - HP is a good coverage move for essentially every special attacker, and can potentially be broken in a tier where it is among the strongest of moves available.

This ends off my complex bans/ suggestions list.

Let Me give some examples:


Weavile
Weavile @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Ice Shard
- Assurance
- Low Sweep

Heatran
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 96 SpA / 40 SpD / 120 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Spin
- Scorching Sands
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

(speculative EV's)

Magnezone
Magnezone @ Air Balloon
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Charge Beam
- Substitute
- Mirror Shot
- Hidden Power [Ice]
 

UT

Roaring 20s, tossing pennies in the pool
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Team Rateris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Appeals + C&C Lead
HI!
I want to suggest an OM that i had thought of a few hours ago and have found it to be very enticing. Many moves in Pokemon get overlooked due to their low PP, which this OM will try to fix. Essentially, all moves above 70 BP are banned (and a few other exceptions). This will bring a new flavour to pokemon, and make it slightly slower paced, but there will be balance changes to ensure it doesn't just become an OM full of stall. Please keep in mind that i'm a BDSP player and do not have much experience with National Dex formats.

70 BP is an odd middleground for moves, and i hope this OM will break that. I particularly picked 70 BP, as it is high enough to allow moves like U-Turn and Volt Switch, while disabling the most common moves in competitive Pokemon. This BP tier is also noteable for banning Punching Moves, while still allowing Fang moves and all priority moves other than Extreme Speed.

Base BP: Move's BP will be accounted for before any modifiers. For example, If Mega-Gardevoir is to use Secret Power (70BP) it woud be boosted by Pixilate to be boosted to 84 BP, but would still be legal. Same applies to Sheer Force.

Terrains: Terrains give a noteable boost to the BP of their respective types. I am not sure how to make this properly balanced and will require help with this. This concern of mine is mostly caused by Pokemon like Rillaboom, which will be able to freely spam moves like Grassy Glide and U-Turn, as they already were.

Since i haven't gotten to test this idea, i'll probably need some help/ feedback, so please do! Without further ado, let me explain some more complex bans:

Bans:

Technitian - In a tier where the strongest moves are 70 BP, Technitian will be essentially cheating, as any Pokemon with it will deal a much greater overall damage than those without it.

Moves Stronger than 70 BP* - To fit the theme of the OM, a few moves will have to be banned to ensure an overall balance. Moves like Facade, Knock Off and Acrobatics will all be banned, as they are potentially much stronger than the intended maximum BP. Triple Axcel is most likely Banned.
Clarification: Moves like Avalanche, Assurance, Bullet Seed will be legal, as they need to fit a certain uncontrolled criteria to be strong, unlike those that can be intentionally made stronger.

Healing Clause - Because the BP of everything will be significantly lower, a healing clause will need to take place. I have no research, but can speculate that healing moves will need to get a significant PP drop to not make defensive teams overwhelming. If worst comes to worst, Leftovers can also be banned.

Maybe's

This section will be dedicated to things that can be potentially unhealthy but without testing, can't be proved so;

Sheer Force - Like Technitian, Sheer Force offers a significant enhancement in offensive pressure, especially when BP of Sheer Force moves is almost double that of standard Pokemon.

Weight Moves - Weight Moves fit the criteria of not being dependant on the user, rather the target, but they can be much stronger than the intended maximum. Moves like Grass Knot and Low Kick seem to be fairly balanced, as their BP is target dependant, but moves like Heavy Slam and Heat Crash seem borderline broken, as they are very often given to very heavy Pokemon, making their damage output insane.

Seismic Toss - Seismic Toss and other simmilar moves like Night Shade seem like they could be potentially broken, as they are often used by defensive tanks like Blissey, and offer high offensive pressure without any investment, made even worse when they can't be KO'd easily due to low BP.

Hidden Power - HP is a good coverage move for essentially every special attacker, and can potentially be broken in a tier where it is among the strongest of moves available.

This ends off my complex bans/ suggestions list.

Let Me give some examples:


Weavile
Weavile @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Ice Shard
- Assurance
- Low Sweep

Heatran
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 96 SpA / 40 SpD / 120 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Spin
- Scorching Sands
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

(speculative EV's)

Magnezone
Magnezone @ Air Balloon
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Charge Beam
- Substitute
- Mirror Shot
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Hi there! OM ideas actually go in the Metagame Workshop, this thread is more geared towards simple questions/simple answers.

While you’re free to take your idea there, I should warn you that restricting “good” moves is on our list of commonly rejected metagame ideas. Especially with stuff like the healing clause you’re talking about, this could also get fairly complex fairly fast.

But welcome to the OM section! Feel free to ask any more questions, or poke around and see if you might like an existing meta!
 

yonitet

Banned deucer.
Hi there! OM ideas actually go in the Metagame Workshop, this thread is more geared towards simple questions/simple answers.

While you’re free to take your idea there, I should warn you that restricting “good” moves is on our list of commonly rejected metagame ideas. Especially with stuff like the healing clause you’re talking about, this could also get fairly complex fairly fast.

But welcome to the OM section! Feel free to ask any more questions, or poke around and see if you might like an existing meta!
I dont have much of a point but low BP doesnt generally mean 'bad', just overshadowed. For example, bad could be considered a move like tackle, which will not get used even here, as i made sure to make the cap high enough to allow some traditionally good moves leeway. Also thx
 
EDIT: Apologies!! Found the Inverse ban list and etc. only within a few steps: 1st page here, scroll down, OM Index, Inverse and info is on that threads first post.

Hi, could we please start an easy one-stop thread that shows the banlists for each OM? For instance, Inverse | SS | Smogon Strategy Pokedex is blank, and a concise ban list for Inverse is hard for me to find. Thanks.
 

UT

Roaring 20s, tossing pennies in the pool
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Team Rateris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Appeals + C&C Lead
I want to propose a change to an OM
Hey, what type of change are you thinking? If it's something like "I think X mon should be banned or unbanned," you can discuss that in the relevant Metagame thread. If it's a bigger change, let me know an I can help you from there.
or in a new thread?
Also, for future reference, you only start new threads after going through OM submissions and being told "you may post this thread now." Any thread that does not go through this process will be deleted.
 

Daylight

angels roll their eyes
is an Artistis a Contributor to Smogon
why does huge power m-gyarados run water shuriken over aqua jet in oras ph?
Water Shuriken is 30 base power minimum, but has a good chance to be 45, 60, or 75 base power. And unlike Aqua Jet, Water Shuriken breaks Substitutes, allowing Mega Gyarados to revenge kill Pokemon like Primal Groudon and Mega Diancie behind a Substitute. It also breaks Focus Sashes which is helpful for threatening ultra frail Pokemon like Deoxys-Attack or No Guard users like Mega Aerodactyl.

Kris edit: Water Shuriken is also physical in ORAS
 

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