Opinion Research on Tiering, Looking Forward to XY

[blitzlefan]

Because a metagame should rely on usage and a tieringsystem to function, allowing changes, adaptability, etc. to florious. Ubers instead is a banlist first, tier second. I honestly believe it's just either coincidence or the lack of stability in the OU tier that has made ubers into such a stable tier as is claimed.
Not to mention it would be impossible to achieve tiers based on usage, because it wouldn't be called 'ubers' anymore. Also OU is called Over Used for a reason: it's the standard tier because it was intended and created to be the standard tier, unlike ubers.

I personally hate this argument. A lot. Ubers may be a banlist, but it's a tier first. Ubers is stable because nothing is blatantly broken within the realms of the Ubers metagame. Of course, if you attempt to look at Ubers Pokemon from an OU perspective, obviously, everything is broken and cannot stay. If you were to look at OU from a UU or RU or any other lower tier's perspective, wouldn't OU be broken as well? However, within the Ubers metagame, most things are balanced, with the exception of maybe Arceus-Normal / Arceus-Ghost (and even then, Arceus-Normal has a fair number of checks / counters). Ubers is a fully functional tier, in which you can arguably run more playstyles than you can in OU (for example, stall is pretty strong in Ubers). We could still use tiers based on usage, but rather in relation to Ubers instead of OU. It's not that hard. "Ubers" is just a name - we could call it SU for Super Used or IOU for Incredibly Over Used (I'm kidding but hopefully you get the point).Furthermore, a "standard tier" is extremely objective, and now, as Ubers is arguably a better meta than OU is, why can't it be the "standard tier"? Because idiots on the ladder bitch about "OH MAN U USE LEGENDS U R NOOB"? Most of those idiots suck at Pokemon anyway.

I'd honestly really like to see Ubers renamed (as "X" Used), and get recognition as a tier, possibly even as the standard tier (it's been discussed a little bit on #pokemon).

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Uh... are you blatantly ignoring reality blitzlefan? While I in no way agree with ZandgaiaX's opinion, it is current Smogon policy that Ubers is a banlist first, this really isn't up for opinion, at all.

 

[ZandgaiaX]

Uhhh you realize that ou was only intended to be standard for the first two gens right?

Source or I call BS, there's a reason that OU is called OverUsed and is to this day the most popular. It tends to be the basic tier to start with for newer players that want to get involved, it tends to be the easiest to learn/understand. It is also, suprise suprise, the most important tier of Smogon and is 'the metagame' for a reason. OU is the tier that is the most populated, is the tier that is used for Smogon's major tournaments: tour, frontier and WCOP. OU is the most discussed tier, not just because it's the tier that changes frequently. I am not saying the other tiers are lesser tiers in comparison to OU, but it is a fact that OU is the mainest of tiers of the site.

Since the uber choices were virtually nonexistent or whatnot and they were for Pokemon deemed too powerful for normal play but after r/s/e übers became more than a ban list and didn't have less members than party slots.

Good job in being able to make a good assumption, I have never said ubers is not a tier. It is a tier, and a good one at that, but it is a banlist first, tier second and will never be the main tier of Smogon or any site.

Then in d/p/pt it really expanded with the introduction of stealth rock, the creation trio, etc.

1) what does this have to do with anything?
2) Stealth Rock has nothing to do with ubers, period.

However Ou was the most popular then still was and is since you were allowed to run pretty much any strategy and be successful.
False, please play OU DPP OU before assuming things that are untrue to even a layman. It is true that a lot of options were viable in Gen4 OU, but that merely means Gen4 OU was a reasonable healthy metagame with a fair amount of diversity without resorting to gimmicks: even then gimmicks were so powerful back then due to not having team preview. Gen4 OU was nothing like Gen5 OU, and for good reason: it was a tier were Salamence was considered broken because it was unpredictable.

This gen is where Ou became absolutely mindless and it still bewilders me how people can consider it as a balanced tier under the pretense of banning broken stuff that checks other broken stuff.

You can say this over and over again, I will neither support or deny this statement. Also I'll say it again: this is not the place to discuss such things. If you can it that, because all you do is give a statement under the pretension of a 'fact' or 'argument'. Hint: it's neither

I personally hate this argument. A lot. Ubers may be a banlist, but it's a tier first.

I personally hate some arguments too: though it wasn't an arguments it was a statement. Ubers is a banlist first, tier second. Why? Ubers is not based on usage, the only way Ubers changes in terms of what pokémon are considered Uber is through a ban from the OU tier. Smogon (Pokemon) tiers are based primarily around usage, with bans in case a pokémon that is in said tier (or below, but I've never seen that below) is (considered) too powerful due to various reasons. I'll say it again: Ubers was created initially as a banlist for OU, which due to it's sheer size evolved into a metagame of it's own. I like the creation of new tiers in my opinion, but the fact that ubers is a banlist is as true as fish in the water. (That comparison sounds better in my language...)

Ubers is stable because nothing is blatantly broken within the realms of the Ubers metagame.

Funny statement, but I can't deny it because I don't play ubers.

Of course, if you attempt to look at Ubers Pokemon from an OU perspective, obviously, everything is broken and cannot stay.

Ubers was created because certain pokémon were considered broken and couldn't stay, your point being?

If you were to look at OU from a UU or RU or any other lower tier's perspective, wouldn't OU be broken as well?

I presume you mean OU pokémon, because a tier cannot be broken from another tier's perspective. Because barely anything is alike...

Alas since you insists on considering OU pokémon broken from another tiers perspective: are these pokémon really broken in lower tiers?

-Donphan
-Forretress
-Gastrodon
-Jolteon
-Magnezone
-Tentacruel
-Toxicroak
-Vaporeon

I'm just stating the most obvious ones here. It's true that a lot of things in higher tiers are broken in comparison to it's initial lower tier (let's not be silly and compare OU to NU). But not everything is. Tiers are based on usage, not on power. Farfetch'd could be OU if it was used enough: even if it doesn't do anything (like it always does), but will it ever go to ubers? No, because ubers is a banlist and banning Farfetch'd is idiotic, though it can totally OHKO my caterpie it's far from broken. The power of pokémon in a tier (OU) in comparison to a tier below itself (UU) is indeed true, but that does not mean everything in higher tier is broken in the lower tier in and of itself: usage is the keyword.

However, within the Ubers metagame, most things are balanced, with the exception of maybe Arceus-Normal / Arceus-Ghost (and even then, Arceus-Normal has a fair number of checks / counters).

Again, can't say anything for Ubers. But I've heard that Arceus is one of the few overpowered-ish things out there. And again: it's good to hear Ubers functions well as a tier, but it's still a banlist for OU. Nothing with a high enough usage in OU will go to Ubers, and nothing with low usage in Ubers will drop down to OU: because I'm sure there are things that aren't used in Ubers that are in fact: Uber.

Ubers is a fully functional tier, in which you can arguably run more playstyles than you can in OU (for example, stall is pretty strong in Ubers).

Stall is viable in OU, don't assume it's not. Because it's not as strong/easy as it was doesn't mean it isn't used/viable. It's true that full-stall can't be used in OU, but honestly is OU the only tier where full-stall is unviable? I honestly doubt it. Stall has changed and is right now making a small but steady breakthrough with the banning of Lando-I. Heck even solo pokémon can still stall reasonable well, even if all the other pokémon in said team are offensive-orientated: look at subroost Kyurem, Subseedloom and venusaur or any of the pranksters.

All the playstyles are still viable in OU, relying on weather (unfortunately): rainstall, sunstall, sandstall, hailstall, weatherlessstall. There is an interesting amount of variety in what can be used, so joy for all here. Also you may say arguably, but where are the arguments?

We could still use tiers based on usage,
Why wouldn't we?

but rather in relation to Ubers instead of OU. It's not that hard. "Ubers" is just a name - we could call it SU for Super Used or IOU for Incredibly Over Used (I'm kidding but hopefully you get the point).

Don't kid yourself, it would become a massive mess very easily, and you know it.

Furthermore, a "standard tier" is extremely objective,

subjective*

Also OU is the closest thing to a main tier: the main tournaments people are interested in, and even the yearly/periodically tournaments are held in OU: look at WCOP and the Frontier.

and now, as Ubers is arguably a better meta than OU is,

Then where are the arguments? I've heard it's balanced: ok. Why?

why can't it be the "standard tier"?

Because it's a banlist, because it's not based on usage, because OU is far more popular, because OU has always been the 'standard'-ish tier. I repeat: no tier is a lesser tier than another, but OU is the mainest of tiers because it has always been the main tier and will always be because it's the most popular, is the top tier in terms of usage and the tier that the largest part of the community strives for: whether it is for discussion, theorymon, set-making and tournaments.

Because idiots on the ladder bitch about "OH MAN U USE LEGENDS U R NOOB"? Most of those idiots suck at Pokemon anyway.

Idiots will always bitch, not to mention the standard noob response in terms of legend-usage is used in OU nowadays anyway: look at how many legendaries already roam OU by now. Also good generalisation, have a thumbsup.
Edit: also I've been called names, a noob and have even been told to kill myself because I run stall. Go figure what demographic we have on the ladder..

I'd honestly really like to see Ubers renamed (as "X" Used), and get recognition as a tier, possibly even as the standard tier (it's been discussed a little bit on #pokemon).

It's a tier, but it's also a banlist. Get over it. It won't be the standard tier anytime soon, unless Smogon undergoes massive changes in it's forums, users, regulars and goals.

Bolded, at least you put some more thought into your post >.>;

Uh... are you blatantly ignoring reality blitzlefan? While I in no way agree with ZandgaiaX's opinion, it is current Smogon policy that Ubers is a banlist first, this really isn't up for opinion, at all.

My god I'm here trying to hold a discussion and you type up my thoughts? : <
Also it's good to disagree with somebody's opinion, if everybody had the same opinion then we'd all be even more boring than we already are.

 

[Drako]

Maybe I expressed myself a bit wrong. Up to gen 3 I can understand that the legendaries are too strong and would basically just break the meta. But from DPP onwards there are so many that they basically balance each other out so my question was why did Smogon or any other website striving for the perfect meta not just start by not insta banning anything and see how it goes? If we didn't do it in Gen 5, then basically The Ubers meta of today would be our OU because obviously the strong ass pokes would be used the most.

 

[MCBarrett]

Maybe I expressed myself a bit wrong. Up to gen 3 I can understand that the legendaries are too strong and would basically just break the meta. But from DPP onwards there are so many that they basically balance each other out so my question was why did Smogon or any other website striving for the perfect meta not just start by not insta banning anything and see how it goes? If we didn't do it in Gen 5, then basically The Ubers meta of today would be our OU because obviously the strong ass pokes would be used the most.

It's just so much easier to have a "nearly anything goes tier" than to try to build from the top down. With the current system we can weed out the threats that are too powerful and weed out anything that isn't used enough at the same time, making the process much quicker. If we did it your way we would end up with the same tiers just with a lot more time and effort wasted just as an attempt to make Ubers more popular? People play the tier they want to because they like that tier or want to use a certain Poke, the same amount of people will play Ubers no matter what it is called. The fact that there are idiots who complain about legendaries is not going to go away if you simply change the name.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Maybe I expressed myself a bit wrong. Up to gen 3 I can understand that the legendaries are too strong and would basically just break the meta. But from DPP onwards there are so many that they basically balance each other out so my question was why did Smogon or any other website striving for the perfect meta not just start by not insta banning anything and see how it goes? If we didn't do it in Gen 5, then basically The Ubers meta of today would be our OU because obviously the strong ass pokes would be used the most.

The way I see it, there was a strong argument from precedent. Traditionally, 600+ Pokemon were just insta-banned, end of story. This doesn't necessarily mean that they where broken though, I have seen arguments from gen 2 players saying that Ho-oh would be fine in the standard meta for example. Regardless, it was traditional that 600+ Pokemon would just be banned unless they had some crippling problem: Slaking and Regigigas.

The way I see it though, such a view point was starting to die in gen 5, with allowing Kyurem in, and the final nail in the coffin was the unbanning of Kyurem-B*. IMO, such a precedent does not hold any weight today, you can't really say that such Pokemon have no place in the standard meta.

*Just wanted to state that I disagree with this decision, but that is an entirely different topic.

 

[MikeDawg]

Not directly quoting anything because your replies make that very difficult, zanh, but the point wasn't to say that Ubers isn't technically a banlist, it's that it /should/ be made into an actual tier (and outside of technicalities it already has). Unless I'm mistaken, that's the gist of the entire discussion, more or less.

I don't personally agree with that sentiment simply because, as many have mentioned, ubers is functioning mighty fine as it is, but with good reason there is nothing wrong with testing ubers in ou (not all at once).

I also believe wholeheartedly that we should not have an immediate uber-drop (bar excadrill, deoxys, etc.: the usuals) as given the course of Gen 5 ou, we need to quickly pinpoint inherent problems BEFORE we go possibly inserting even more. That is the safest course of action for coming to a stable meta.

Edit: McBarret articulated my own thoughts well; going through a tier shift by making Ubers a "tier" will not only have little impact considering the work, but it will be a huge waste of time.

 

[GCSChris]

I personally hate this argument. A lot. Ubers may be a banlist, but it's a tier first.

I don't mean to be blunt, but this is the exact opposite of Smogon's tiering policy. While that doesn't mean that Ubers is not a tier, it's a ban list first, and a tier second.

 

[TheFourthChaser]

*Arceus is a defensive boost more than offensive*

While I haven't personally seen the same, I think this is a fair argument and may have pushed me more toward no banlist (for Pokemon not Clauses) at all. It would be amusing to me to have Deo-S by itself on a banlist but I think Arceus helps with that offensively.

Whilst I personally don't play Ubers (I should give it a shot though), it is indeed interesting that Ubers: first and formost a banlist, managed to achieve a good level of balance. I agree on your statement of the term normal, and I probably should not have used that to get my point across, but what I'm trying to say is whether we honestly want the 'premier' tier of comp. pokémon be resolved around even more of the legendaries, than it already is? I honestly find it a little sad that there is even a notion of dropping down anything down from Ubers, other than the odd ones out: like blaziken, or pokémon that have an actual chance of working in a lower tier without seeming broken: like Kyurem(-B, though I'm still not completely out on KyuB). I personally believe we should at least attempt to upkeep some form of OU that does not completely depend or bases itself around the far more powerful legendaries. I don't see the problem with balance created by powerful legendaries, it sounds to me like this is getting close to a "PS user argument".

More power means that it'll allow us to overcome commonly complained problems, but also creates new ones. The powercreep is honestly already bad enough, and if we're lucky and said powercreep won't get worse (fat chance), then why would we increase it even further? As much as I wish I didn't had too, I have to say that the current (OU) metagame favors diversity to an extend, but if ex-ubers will start roaming the fields of OU, then what would happen to the day-workers that are known as lower-tiers pokémon? They'll get pushed away except for the odd specific competent one, that can take care of one or two of the ubers that will be roaming about. Sure it's more powerful but that's already been addressed. What is possibly beneficial about this creep is that it is defensive as well as offensive. Ex-Ubers always roam OU in someway, for BW we have Lati@s, Garchomp, Salamence, etc.

BW Ubers may be balanced, but what will happen they all come down to OU? They'll push the OU pokémon down, who will push the UU pokémon down, etc. etc.: a vicious cycle. I agree that we should test some of the ubers with the advent of XY, but I'm not sure whether we should do so at the exact beginning of XY, or play safe and instead rely on a combination of theorymon and expectations whilst the OU metgame has 'slowed down' in terms of changes: i.e. when OU has reached a certain point of stability. But what I do believe is that we should at least use some theorymon, general metagame knowledge and expectations to see what can obviously break the metagame and what is more ambigious: we can save some valuable time if we 'play it safe' rather than just drop down everything and greet them with bottles of champagne and cute little snacks. Yes tiers would have a sort of push down effect, this thought didn't bug me but it may annoy others.

Also with the advent of XY, seeing as there will obviously be another lower-end tier (PU or something), I don't see why we can't add something like 'Uber Balance (UB)' or 'God Tier (GT)' to keep the balance of ubers that so many people say exists. No. We don't need more.

Ok, then lets look at the individual pokemon:
Groudon and Kyogre: Setup the most powerful weathers in the game, 150 base offenses, ridiculous bulk, groudon is uncounterable, kyogre only fears gastrodon, will obviously overcentralize the meta (you can see that in the current and past uber).
Deoxys-A: Uncounterable, near uncheckable, can take advantage of switchs to setup hazards, NASTY PLOT.
Giratina-O: Ridiculous powerful mixed attacker and bulk spinblocker, excellent coverage, can phaze stuff with dragon tail while dealin high damage, the mere presence of this thing would ensure hazards would never be spun.
Ho-Oh: Base 130 offenses with two ridiculous powerful stab moves, 47% chance to burn with sacred fire (do you hate scald? Now wait to deal with this), REGENERATOR, ridiculous bulk, tailwind can overcome its speed issue, no safe switch-ins, sun boosted stab.
Reshiram: Sun boosted blue flare, tailwind overcome its speed issue, no safe switch ins, unresisted dual stab coverage.
Palkia: Abuses both rain and sun, no safe switchins, UNPREDICTABLE, perfect coverage, doesnt depend on choice items due to lustrous orb.
I could go on but the fact is these mons all have ridiculous traits that makes any though of dropping them to a lower tier simply absurd. I must say that i do agree that we could test SOME of them but ONLY after we have got to the point of stability in gen 6 ou. Thats why the kyurem-b suspect didnt made any sense because gen 5 ou has never reached this point. In case gen 6 ou turns out to be as much unbalanced as this one then i dont really see how dropping something from uber is going to do anything more than harm.

You're looking at things in a vacuum. Palkia has the ability to utilize both weathers, giving it the ability to check or even counter mons like Groudon, Kyogre, etc.

I personally hate this argument. A lot. Ubers may be a banlist, but it's a tier first. Ubers is stable because nothing is blatantly broken within the realms of the Ubers metagame. Of course, if you attempt to look at Ubers Pokemon from an OU perspective, obviously, everything is broken and cannot stay. If you were to look at OU from a UU or RU or any other lower tier's perspective, wouldn't OU be broken as well? However, within the Ubers metagame, most things are balanced, with the exception of maybe Arceus-Normal / Arceus-Ghost (and even then, Arceus-Normal has a fair number of checks / counters). Ubers is a fully functional tier, in which you can arguably run more playstyles than you can in OU (for example, stall is pretty strong in Ubers). We could still use tiers based on usage, but rather in relation to Ubers instead of OU. It's not that hard. "Ubers" is just a name - we could call it SU for Super Used or IOU for Incredibly Over Used (I'm kidding but hopefully you get the point).Furthermore, a "standard tier" is extremely objective, and now, as Ubers is arguably a better meta than OU is, why can't it be the "standard tier"? Because idiots on the ladder bitch about "OH MAN U USE LEGENDS U R NOOB"? Most of those idiots suck at Pokemon anyway.

I'd honestly really like to see Ubers renamed (as "X" Used), and get recognition as a tier, possibly even as the standard tier (it's been discussed a little bit on #pokemon).

Like everyone else is saying, Ubers is a banlist first. That is one of the advantages of trying no banlist early on, Ubers becomes OU. OU is not standard because randoms bitch about legends, OU is standard because that is what it has always been and always will be.

 

[iliekmudkipz123456789]

Was a good survey and it had important questions about the metagame. Great job!

 

[KurashiDragon]

The way I see it, there was a strong argument from precedent. Traditionally, 600+ Pokemon were just insta-banned, end of story. This doesn't necessarily mean that they where broken though, I have seen arguments from gen 2 players saying that Ho-oh would be fine in the standard meta for example. Regardless, it was traditional that 600+ Pokemon would just be banned unless they had some crippling problem: Slaking and Regigigas.

The way I see it though, such a view point was starting to die in gen 5, with allowing Kyurem in, and the final nail in the coffin was the unbanning of Kyurem-B*. IMO, such a precedent does not hold any weight today, you can't really say that such Pokemon have no place in the standard meta.

*Just wanted to state that I disagree with this decision, but that is an entirely different topic.

Injecting my own opinion into the matter, Kyurem was chosen to not be banned because it was below the 670+ marker not because it was proven to not be broken. Also Kyurem-B spent a while in Uber while the metagame was stabilized enough to let something like this happen and people have had their suspicious about it sense it wasn't used all that much in Ubers in the first place.

I actually have my own opinion about dropping the Ubers as soon as X/Y starts. The answer is no but it's a little more complicated than that. When CUBE was dropped into OU it had already spent some time in Ubers so we had a clearer picture of how good it was based on it's Uber statistics and felt that due to the statistics there was a good enough reason to allow it into OU. This is what I feel needs to happen. We should Stabilize the OU and Uber metagame than then slowly start to inject Weak Ubers into OU to test the waters. If we just drop every single Uber into OU at the start of X/Y it'll be complete and utter chaos. In addition to dealing with the new pokemon, moves, and mechanics now we have to deal with a bunch of Uber pokemon. Some Ubers will obviously be broken and will be banned right away but with others we wont be so sure and we'll spend a good chuck of the 6th gen arguing over whether or not some pokemon are Uber or not. Rather than taking the chaotic route we should keep uber the way it is (with some pokemon coming down i.e Blaziken and Excadrill) and over time put some of the weaker Uber Pokémon into OU and see if their worthy. It's better to do this smart than just let the chips fall where they may.

 

[baddjordan]

Injecting my own opinion into the matter, Kyurem was chosen to not be banned because it was below the 670+ marker not because it was proven to not be broken. Also Kyurem-B spent a while in Uber while the metagame was stabilized enough to let something like this happen and people have had their suspicious about it sense it wasn't used all that much in Ubers in the first place.

I actually have my own opinion about dropping the Ubers as soon as X/Y starts. The answer is no but it's a little more complicated than that. When CUBE was dropped into OU it had already spent some time in Ubers so we had a clearer picture of how good it was based on it's Ubatistics and felt that due to the statistics there was a good enough reason to allow it into OU. This is what I feel needs to happen. We should Stabilize the OU and Uber metagame than then slowly start to inject Weak Ubers into OU to test the waters. If we just drop every single Uber into OU at the start of X/Y it'll be complete and utter chaos. In addition to dealing with the new pokemon, moves, and mechanics now we have to deal with a bunch of Uber pokemon. Some Ubers will obviously be broken and will be banned right away but with others we wont be so sure and we'll spend a good chuck of the 6th gen arguing over whether or not some pokemon are Uber or not. Rather than taking the chaotic route we should keep uber the way it is (with some pokemon coming down i.e Blaziken and Excadrill) and over time put some of the weaker Uber Pokémon into OU and see if their worthy. It's better to do this smart than just let the chips fall where they may.

As much as I don't want to see traditional ubers in OU, this would be the most appropriate approach. I just read the philosophy for the first time and it says "every Pokemon is unique," which I am guessing means it doesn't matter what their BST is.

 

[sparktrain]

The most logical thing to do, in my opinion, is to start off 6th gen OU in a similar fashion to how 5th gen was started off, with some exceptions. First off, we can't really base everything off of BST; it's really a case-by-case basis of what would break OU. Looking back at 5th gen OU, a 508 BST pokemon ended up being banned to Ubers, while a 700 BST pokemon was brought down to OU. In order to prepare for 6th gen OU, we'd have to be willing to let a good amount of 5th gen Ubers drop for testing. As I said before, it should be a case-by-case basis, so we would have to individually examine and vote on all previous Ubers to decide whether or not they deserve a shot in OU. Pokemon such as Arceus, Mewtwo, Kyogre, etc. would likely stay banned while mons like Landorus-I, Thundurus-I, Excadrill, and Blaziken likely being dropped. It's almost inevitable that 6th gen OU will end up an even more high-powered metagame than 5th gen OU, as it's tended to do in the past.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I disagree with thinking too much about a case by case basis. When you're thinking about case-by-case alone, things become too arbitrary. Why introduce Deoxys-S but not Darkrai? Because Darkrai has an 80% Sleep move? How can you prove that an 80% Sleep move is more broken than Spikes off of the fastest Speed in the game? You don't know, you don't have any ground to stand on in making that arbitrary statement.

I think going by BST is a legitimate argument-- people underestimate the affect of BST on a Pokemon's usability. I think if you say, "We allowed everything with less than 650 BST down for initial testing, along with a few 650+ Pokemon on a case-by-case basis", you have a much more objective and understandable reasoning on which you based your decision. There is a better footing for the argument; it's less arbitrary and opinion based.

If you're trying to avoid testing "everything" and try to keep the tier "feeling like OU," I think admitting that we're using 650+ BST as a basis of the decision to exclude Pokemon like Ho-Oh, Arceus, Mewtwo, etc. is simply something you need to do.

"BST is not the bottom line for tiering," sure, but that's why we drop things down to test. I don't think there's anything wrong or poor practice with just acknowledging that exclusion from initial testing is based on that BST cut off; because that jump in BST is a very significant, non-arbitrary break.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Hi everyone, I'd like to thank you all for your cooperation. I have decided to close the survey, now at a good sample of 300 respondents. With the data collected, I will be putting together a formal write up which will be viewable to staff first. Eventually, I plan on making the results public.

Thanks again for your time and participation.

--Chou

 

[nyttyn]

Chou, do you think you could give us an estimate of when you plan to make the results public? I'm sure a lot of people are interested in seeing the results, and would appreciate having an idea of when they should keep an eye out for them.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Just to clarify, the results of this were actually posted publicly once. Unfortunately, I had to take down the survey in order to do my second one (limitations of a free account with the survey provider). I still have the raw data, which I could upload as a .CSV for anyone with the time and interest to go through it (it's a LOT of data).