Media One Piece (spoilers!)

[Miraidon]

So happy with a One Piece thread! Gonna follow this and dabble in discussion here when I've read the most recent ones <3

 

[Mova]

seems like the number of crewmates was counting luffy himself, then...

 

[SparksBlade]

feels so good after leaving wano

 

[Roufail]

I believe that Wano is the best arc by far, but I do have a problem with Gear5. It is a great design and I love how it is not trying to go for the clichè anime approach of "Cool/Edgy=Good" rather going for an approach that fits Luffy's goofy side a lot more, but the actual Gear, as in the power boost, makes a lot of previously great stuff about the manga feel.... cancelled for lack of a better term, it is established that the Gomu Gomu No-Mi is one of the most broken fruits and the one who eats it is fated to complete their goal (I do not exactly remember the quote) which in my opinion is worse than what was previously established of the fruit being just an average paramecia that Luffy made good on his own.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I believe that Wano is the best arc by far, but I do have a problem with Gear5. It is a great design and I love how it is not trying to go for the clichè anime approach of "Cool/Edgy=Good" rather going for an approach that fits Luffy's goofy side a lot more, but the actual Gear, as in the power boost, makes a lot of previously great stuff about the manga feel.... cancelled for lack of a better term, it is established that the Gomu Gomu No-Mi is one of the most broken fruits and the one who eats it is fated to complete their goal (I do not exactly remember the quote) which in my opinion is worse than what was previously established of the fruit being just an average paramecia that Luffy made good on his own.

I think the important piece for the story telling is the repeated idea that “devil fruit powers are “as weak or as powerful as you make them.”

And I think Gomu Gomu really fits this idea. In the thousand years since the blank century the Gomu Gomu fruit continued existing and no one became Joy Boy. How many people in that time ate it and never became more than an anchor that couldn’t be punched and stretched inconveniently. Probably many. The Sabo-Luffy-Ace Arc did a good job of establishing Gomu as a trash paramecia without the imagination and raw will to bring out its potential.

On the other hand it was REEEAALLY rewarding watching Buggy being made the bitch. Good stuff.

I bet buggy’s fruit could also be incredible in the hands of a strong willed user— like they could fragment themselves and reform themselves to near microscopic bits, attack from anywhere etc etc

 

[Randombobman]

「燃えてなんぼの!!!」「"黒炭"に候っ!!!」

Okay... this is some weird old Samurai speech or something (yeah Wano...), so I don't perfectly understand it. Honestly a bit above my cultural literacy.

"Burning" and the name "Kurosumi" (which means Black Coal) fine enough, but the use of Nanbono here is hard to interpret when I never hear it in a contemporary context, but it's like "how much" or "how many", but could also be "No matter how much". Here, like in many Japanese (especially old Japanese) sentences many grammar indicators are dropped (is, am, are, then, etc.) because you're expected to understand. So taking the leap, "No matter how much [pronoun] burns", here pronoun is not included so it could be "it" or "they" or "you"-- the subject isn't made clear, but essentially it's "Kurosumi" but again is that this man specifically or the clan in general or both?

And then "Sourou" here is super confusing because it's meaning is super hard to define. The sentence so far, literal translation would be "[No matter] how [much] [it/they/you] burns, the Kurosumi in [Sourou]!"
^[] around [No Matter] and [much] because while you probably can (and probably should) interpret those words as being there even in literal translation, that's not the only literal translation so not full confidence. [much] as well as [it/they/you] are not included in the sentence, but it is correct that (sometimes) you are supposed to interpret them as being there.

Next you have to translate and insert "Sourou". Possible definitions of the word Sourou:
-The state of things
-Season, weather
-Wait
-Question, investigate, aim for
-"is" or "is there" or "exists"

Now try putting any of those words in the brackets for [Sourou] in the sentence:
"[No matter] how [much] [it/they/you] burns, the Kurosumi in [The state of things]!"
"[No matter] how [much] [it/they/you] burns, the Kurosumi in [Season/Weather]!"
"[No matter] how [much] [it/they/you] burns, the Kurosumi in [Waiting]!"
"[No matter] how [much] [it/they/you] burns, the Kurosumi in [Questioning]!"
"[No matter] how [much] [it/they/you] burns, the Kurosumi in [exists]!"

gdamn you Oda... wtf is this...

I do think it's supposed to be the last definition ("is" or "is there" or "exists"), in which case it's easy to see why the it's easiest to translate this pretty-English-irreconcilable sentence as "The Kurosumi were meant to burn!!!"

but the moral weight that grammar carries is what seems out of place and what we're trying to avoid-- it's not clearly there (BUT IT'S ALSO NOT CLEARLY NOT THERE).

But I do want to give a charitable interpretation... so I feel it's more like...

"No matter how it burns, it's 'Black Coal' after all!!"

Also, I'm going to admit I didn't watch (this part) of the anime where Oden died, and I didn't read the manga in Japanese at all recently, so I didn't even know what the phrase Oden used when he died... so I tried looking it up... and yes it's the same grammar as here. "Niete Nanbono Oden ni Sourou."

And given Oden's carefree nature and bravery in accepting his own death with a smile on, I think it translates very well into "No matter how it boils, it's [just] Oden after all!"

And I added the word [just] here to emphasize the nuance I think is best imparted here. You could translate it as Oden saying that "Oden is meant to boil," but speaking of himself he's clearly not saying he deserves to boil as a moral judgement, but instead that it's obvious that Oden (as in literally the food) is [of course] boiled. Just as a matter of fact, that's how the soup is made and eaten. Just that he's talking about himself, and his death in the same matter-of-fact manner. I add the word "just" here to underscore the point that what Oden is saying is that it's not a big deal for him to boil, he accepts his own death with grace and without anguish or judgement.

Of course the sentences feel different especially after translation because "Oden" is just himself, an individual, and not "Kouzuki" which is a clan of people. There's no genocide against an individual but there can be genocide of a clan. There's not essentialization of an individual based on being himself/herself (you are who your are, living your own life), but there is bigotry/essentialization of characteristics to an individual based on that individual's group membership. A person saying he was "meant to" die this way, sounds really really different (especially in English) from a person saying a whole group of people "are meant to" die this way.

Regardless, if I try to translate Oden's phrase into a clear, colloquial English sentence and also replace the word "Oden" (Japanese hot pot in soy broth) with "Stew" to give us Americans the correct material context, it would be:

"So what if it boils, it IS stew after all!"

Then if I use the exact same grammar for Hiyori's line, it's:

"So what if it burns, it IS black coal after all!"

Which, does sound a lot less genocidal but still kind of gives me the creeps honestly. It is a lot better correctly contextualized and as long as you clearly remember what Oden said when he died, but it's still kind of cringe to me and honestly wished Oda could have come up with a better, morally centered phrase for Hiyori to yell to wrap up the saga.


edit: Also, when I asked my wife (who's Japanese) for her opinion, she said "My English is not good enough, and I didn't study Kanbu (classical Chinese) seriously enough in school to properly answer your question, so I'm glad you interepreted it for yourself. You're probably right."

I view the Kurozumi as more similar to a cult than an actual family group. The superiority and revenge complex they had reminds me a lot of Hody Jones, who was an insubstantial nothing. Considering everything the Kurozumi clan put the entire nation of Wano through, I don't feel particularly bad about their condemnation. I view them similar to how I view racists, they don't deserve to exist. We're all human after all

 

[SparksBlade]

Considering everything the Kurozumi clan put the entire nation of Wano through

but they didn't, that's the point. the head of the kurozumi got greedy so he poisoned some people, so they made him commit seppuku, and then they targeted the entire clan who had zero say or involvement in this whole scheme. orochi and kanjuro were hunted as kids and their parents were murdered because of this.

and now if you say "well orochi put wano in such a bad state" then that's orochi and not every kurozumi and that distinction between the main culprit and the group that's just related to that culprit is very important

I view them similar to how I view racists, they don't deserve to exist. We're all human after all

and yet you're generalising and judging every kurozumi by the actions of few. they're also humans after all

Hide

also please no translating it to "kurozumi was born to burn" still doesn't make it ok nobody's ever referred to orochi as just "kurozumi" ever and all of this just for the sake of a pun with the family name/clan name is disappointing to say the least

 

[Chou Toshio]

all of this just for the sake of a pun with the family name/clan name is disappointing to say the least

100%

Oden’s “Who cares if it’s boiled, it’s Oden after all!” Super based, super aligned with what the story’s about.

This moment seems little to do with the virtue of Oden’s view of his own death.

 

[Posho]

The one piece is real

 

[Legitimate Username]

I believe that Wano is the best arc by far, but I do have a problem with Gear5. It is a great design and I love how it is not trying to go for the clichè anime approach of "Cool/Edgy=Good" rather going for an approach that fits Luffy's goofy side a lot more, but the actual Gear, as in the power boost, makes a lot of previously great stuff about the manga feel.... cancelled for lack of a better term, it is established that the Gomu Gomu No-Mi is one of the most broken fruits and the one who eats it is fated to complete their goal (I do not exactly remember the quote) which in my opinion is worse than what was previously established of the fruit being just an average paramecia that Luffy made good on his own.

wano is the worst arc by far and fifth gear was actually a brilliant reveal for evolving luffy's powerset in a unique and thematically appropriate way that emphasizes his role as the freest person in the world even to the point of transcending the constraints of physical logic, it could have actually been really good if it wasn't used as a literal deus ex machina for having him bullshit his way to an unearned victory out of nowhere based on dumb luck rather than his usual hard work, ingenuity, or pure determined grit.

fifth gear deserved a chance to be an insane and exciting reveal rather than just the mindless plot armor that nobody asked for. i could complain a lot more about just how many horrifying mistakes were made in the handling of luffy's final fight, it all goes so much deeper with many bizarre choices beyond just this one bad decision.

100%

Oden’s “Who cares if it’s boiled, it’s Oden after all!” Super based, super aligned with what the story’s about.

This moment seems little to do with the virtue of Oden’s view of his own death.

orochi is literally one of the biggest assholes in the entire story. the ONLY way that we can possibly get ANY satisfaction from his ending is to see the narrative prove him overwhelmingly and unquestionably wrong. we need to see wano rise above him and prove that they're better than him, that he was incorrect to discriminate and that his tragic past does not excuse his current actions. instead we get to see the people of wano prove him completely right about everything that he believed in. we get the brilliantly satisfying ending of seeing...that the worst person we know actually had a pretty valid point all along. fuck.

 

[Mova]

The one piece is real

the fact that i know what this joke is is unfortunate...

 

[Chou Toshio]

wano is the worst arc by far and fifth gear was actually a brilliant reveal for evolving luffy's powerset in a unique and thematically appropriate way that emphasizes his role as the freest person in the world even to the point of transcending the constraints of physical logic, it could have actually been really good if it wasn't used as a literal deus ex machina for having him bullshit his way to an unearned victory out of nowhere based on dumb luck rather than his usual hard work, ingenuity, or pure determined grit.

fifth gear deserved a chance to be an insane and exciting reveal rather than just the mindless plot armor that nobody asked for. i could complain a lot more about just how many horrifying mistakes were made in the handling of luffy's final fight, it all goes so much deeper with many bizarre choices beyond just this one bad decision.



orochi is literally one of the biggest assholes in the entire story. the ONLY way that we can possibly get ANY satisfaction from his ending is to see the narrative prove him overwhelmingly and unquestionably wrong. we need to see wano rise above him and prove that they're better than him, that he was incorrect to discriminate and that his tragic past does not excuse his current actions. instead we get to see the people of wano prove him completely right about everything that he believed him. we get the brilliantly satisfying ending of seeing...that the worst person we know actually had a pretty valid point all along. fuck.

Yeah I think it says something about the arc that the only things I actually cared about were:

-Learning about Oden being a bad ass
-backstory details <-not from a literary perspective, just as a one piece fan perspective
-Fights <-not from being emotionally vested in the narrative of the fight, just from an anime fanboy/like-sparkly-things perspective

I honestly didn't think that Kaido was a very compelling or interesting villain, and I don't feel like I was drawn into being very emotionally vested in the arc or the plight of Wano or the scabbards or the people. Sorry to them but... eh

 

[SparksBlade]

liked this chapter, tho first half of it clearly should've happened BEFORE leaving wano and in real time instead of a flashback. i guess we also finally got that marco/luffy interaction :fire:

liked how much sense it made for blackbeard to target the shichibukai who has a unique power worth stealing. you can't steal anything from mihawk, crocodile ain't special, and buggy has plot armor to the max so he ain't facing any of the main bigshots till near end i think

also something that i never actually gave a thought to, and maybe oda highlighted to make a point about luffy too, but boa's fruit is strong ONLY because she's the user. the fruit by itself would be very mid (idk if those arrows would still do something?) but we get a clear idea of the fruit's value being tied to who the user is

the px are very scary in story and for story imo. i'm always of the opinion that if something seemingly op is introduced, but then it's somehow kept in "check" by the risks or drawbacks involved, most stories then find a way to bypass those risks/drawbacks and we're just left with something op (naruto ppl might know what im talking about). when we got full confirmation that momo's fruit is a complete copy of kaido's i thought "that raises the question: in the future everyone will be able to have those fruits" that future might be wayyy after present time and/or maybe we get a proper reason for why this might just be impossible, but for now i won't rule out seeing 5000 dragons in the final war. similarly, these px are TOO strong so unless we get a limiting factor as well, i'll be skeptical.

also, i think we saw 2 of them here? got a bit confused but i haven't read the official release maybe that makes it more clear. in my head i have a memory that says the marines sent 2 px for each shichibukai but idk if that's real or not (didn't see any vs buggy). still if the px are to replace shichibukai, there'll be at least 7 i guess. and now im thinking we'll see 5000 such px riding 5000 dragons in the final war

is coby's kidnapping gonna make the sword faction come in light? looking forward to learning more about the rocky port incident, and maybe we'll find more about xebec's crew's remnants as well

 

[Surgo]

I think regardless of the user, Boa's fruit is totally busted. The auto-win button is just the bare minimum "you must be this tall to fight me", and I think that's the only real part that would require her to be, well, her. The slave arrow attack is just completely overpowered, you get hit by it and you're done. Worked even on inanimate objects like cannonballs. It's even more busted than Perona's fruit. And it's pretty funny because we've seen basically nothing from her. The big I-win button, the slave arrow attack, and her ability to turn whatever she touches to stone (so long as she isn't seastone-cuffed or blackholed). There's probably way more to the fruit than what's been put on the page so far.

I think there's one new px for each of the warlords. The ones in this chapter resembled Boa and Mihawk. I'd bet they're all based on them.

is coby's kidnapping

So, we don't know anything about what happened to Coby. I'm betting there's a lot more to this than what it looks like on the face, especially considering how everyone just (apparently peacefully) withdrew. There's the possibility he just up and went with Blackbeard for reasons. Maybe Aokiji has something to do with it.

 

[Mova]

do we have any idea if the upcoming arc could be sphinx, considering we haven't seen much of weevil and his supposed ties to wb? this would also be an opportunity to visit ace and whitebeard's graves.

 

[kstiemsma]

i agreed that sphinx could be a nice transition before 1059, but the way Marco left with shanks and his conversation with the straw hats would make it really awkward if we see him again in like three chapters. would be really weird for him not to travel directly there with luffy if thats where they're going.

 

[SparksBlade]

forgot to mention, but yamato's decision to stay now finally gives me peace

i'd like to think that oden leaving wano when he came with roger even tho he sensed some unease helped yamato to, unlike him, not turn her back on wano for her own ambitions it would've taken oden roger rayleigh 10 minutes to spank kaido and orochi and just put an end to everything god i hate oden

this also makes those ppl happy who were worried that yamato might know too much from the logbook or some excuse will have to be made for her not knowing

i call it "coby's kidnapping" just cos it was published like that. im sure coby somehow made blackbeard leave actually, maybe by offering something through diplomacy, because why else would blackbeard abandon this amazing devil fruit that he came to grab all the way from the other side of the red line

 

[Posho]

That was one of the chapters of One Piece

 

[Chou Toshio]

That was one of the chapters of One Piece

Yeah holy cow total loss for words

 

[SparksBlade]

The shark is v3 in its line, the giant mecha is v12 in VegaForce1 which I assume is the air force but had to intervene against the shark. So Vegapunk made this shark some sort of a cyborg, or there's something that is derived from actual sharks. Either way, the shark's natural behavior has been overwritten to perform certain tasks only (tho it malfunctioned a bit). Seems same as what was supposedly done to Kuma, and whatever's up with Seraphims

Wonder how close this is to the actual lineage factor research that drew World Government's attention, cos wiping out the original consciousness and replacing it with protocols would prolly be not too far. Also wonder if this can somehow be used to just get rid of the side effects of SMILE. Also wonder what the long term implications on the plot will be from such a thing. Vegapunk is too big a character to be a one-arc-and-done thing, who'll later get some mentions here and there.

The girl is wearing "02" which seems to be screaming "MAYBE NOT ACTUALLY VEGAPUNK HMMHMM????" but I won't spend too much brain on this for now. Someone will eventually compile all the old hints about Vegapunk to point out that maybe this character can't be The Vegapunk, so either it's like a title or group, perhaps this girl is dubbed to be the next Vegapunk just like how every 2 years we get the next Messi and Ronaldo.

random thoughts

• Bonney turned Vegapunk young?
• Some info about M.A.D.S. and Kuma?
• Vegapunk turned to science cos he/she wanted young big anime tiddies?
• Vegapunk gave himself/herself a younger body to be able to keep working epically?
• Vegapunk shouldn't have a huge age difference from Ceaser/Judge/Queen maybe?
• Clone clone fruit?
• Daughter?? (maybe adopted)
• What Serpahim be? How Seraphim be? "Who" Seraphim be?
• What up with that dragon on Punk Hazard? Where the original?

PS: I think Franky will do something while everyone is separated that'll impress Vegapunk (real or fake)

 

[Mova]

egghead arc!! i'm glad oda subverted our expectations again

 

[kstiemsma]

maybe im just coping bc i think itd be really cool if vegapunk was a woman but im interested if any of caesar/queen/judge have referred to them explicitly with male pronouns or if it has been more ambiguous. like sparksblade said im sure people will dig up old panels in the next week but i was under the impression that vegapunk is very secretive and the only people who have met them are high ranking marines, MADS, and sentomaru.

also pretty sus to me that bonney is there explicitly to meet with vegapunk when old timer speech in young body. especially with her last appearance before reverie being akainu capturing her from blackbeard right before the timeskip. would make a lot of sense to me if vegapunk was experimenting with bonneys fruit and thats why she has business with vegapunk and also how she got away from WG bc vegapunk ambiguous morals.

super excited for bonney tho! she's one of my favorite supernovas and there's so many interesting plot threads that she intersects with, really hyped to see where oda goes with her character

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

What Serpahim be? How Seraphim be? "Who" Seraphim be?

Seraphim means angel, it's one of those new pacifistas that showed up in the previous chapter

 

[Lalaya]

Seraphim means angel, it's one of those new pacifistas that showed up in the previous chapter

(to be specific is a order of angels, specifically Seraphims are the highest order of angels in Christianity, which is telling something...)

 

[SparksBlade]

I meant what a Seraphim really is in one piece........