NP: UU - Zero to Hero

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Heracross voted BL by the council with a final vote of 5-4

BL: Erazor, RT., 6A9 Ace Matador, Bluewind, Eo Ut Mortus
UU: Synre, Heysup, folgorio, bad ass

interestingly enough it started as a blowout 7-2 for BL but then Synre presented a solid argument for keeping it UU (if he wants to share his reasoning in the megathread he can feel free) that swayed a couple voters and made it 4-4 with Erazor left to vote. Bluewind flip flopped, which made it UU, but then he flip flopped again so it was left again to Erazor who went BL. Fun stuff. Later Hera.
This post makes me curious what could possibly make (probably) bad ass and folgorio and to an extent Bluewind change their minds about Heracross. Any of the council members want to post the arguments?

And yes, I'm surprised the vote turned out 5-4. 7-2 sounded more like it @_@
 
This post makes me curious what could possibly make (probably) bad ass and folgorio and to an extent Bluewind change their minds about Heracross. Any of the council members want to post the arguments?

And yes, I'm surprised the vote turned out 5-4. 7-2 sounded more like it @_@
+1, would like to read Synre's arguments as well
 
This was my vote PM that I c/ped into chat later, though obviously I expanded on it some as we talked:

I've mentioned most of the logic in chat before, but even though it's obviously irrelevant at this point, I do vote UU.

It's purely pragmatism. If we were in December 2008 instead of 2010 I would look at this differently. I've never been hugely interested in the suspect characteristics. They're useful guidelines, but they're by no means hard and fast rules we should be following. By the characteristics, Heracross is absolutely BL - he's one of the more powerful, gamechanging offensive suspects we've had in UU.

The reason I vote UU in spite of this is because this vote isn't so much about a Pokemon as it is a choice between two metagames. BW is no longer just knocking on the door - it's already broken in and is passed out on the couch with some loko. This is the last vote we'll have for Gen 4 UU, and as such it is effectively a choice between two metagames - the Heracross-centric DPP UU we have right now, and the Venusaur-centric DPP UU we had before it. Given the option I would prefer to remove both Pokemon to best balance the metagame, but with that option not being supplied to me I think that the metagame containing Heracross is a more enjoyable metagame than the one with Venusaur, and would be the better choice for what will from now on be DPP UU. It's as simple as that to me.

As voters, I think we have a responsibility here to give the people playing UU as enjoyable of a metagame as possible. I don't think one metagame is anymore competitive than the other, so to me that's the question. To me, the Heracross metagame is simply more fun.




turned out to be slightly less irrelevant than i'd expected, though ultimately futile
 

Conflict

is the 9th Smogon Classic Winneris a Three-Time Past SPL Championis the defending GSC Circuit Champion
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lol, weezing wasnt even the best Heracounter and it was stronger before Hera dropped down....

With Hera in UU you had to use dumb stuff like Haze or HP [Flying] to counter most Herasets and you werent able to use WoW which makes Hera just stronger.

Stupid theorymon - i assume you have never used Weezing....
 

SJCrew

Believer, going on a journey...
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Heracross was largely the reason I stepped back from 4th gen UU. Even when the occasional tournament comes up, I'm hesitant to join because of the way the metagame has shaped to counter him, making certain strategies or even Pokemon almost entirely unviable because of him. Even though Venusaur needed at least two really good checks to stay in line, he can only do so much with Grass and Poison as his main coverage options and one Sleep Clause activates, it's party time.

The Venusaur metagame was UU at it's peak and I, for one, will be glad to see it return. Even if 4th Gen UU is almost entirely dead, it dies with dignity.
 

shrang

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Yay Heracross is out. Back to fun old Venusaur days.

Although Heracross was bad, I have to admit it wasn't THAT bad. Much better than stupid stuff like Cresselia and Yanmega running around. Oh God that was horrible.
 

Meru

ate them up
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If you have problems with Milotic when Venusaur is gone just switch over to Vileplume, which is as much of a Milotic counter as Venusaur is but isnt as uncounterable.
Lol. Vileplume is SLOWW, worse in every stat, can easily be EV'd to be outsped even by a defensive Milotic, and it doesn't have Leaf Storm.

Venusaur is better in absolutely stat and has a better movepool except for the very niche Aromatherapy. I agree that if Venusaur did end up banned, Milotic would probably follow, because nothing else is really as clean of a switch in as Venusaur is.
 

uragg

Walking the streets with you in your worn-out jeans
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since i won the last dpp uu match ever i figure i'll have the last post in a dpp uu megathread ever. worth a necro gg GG
 

Bad Ass

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I think that Kabutops is a good Pokemon. It can set up SR and come in on Arcanine and throw around LO Stone Edges.
 
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