Metagame NP: USUM Stage 7: Dark Center of the Universe (tier shifts @ 35)


I just wanted to continue the discussion on Eelektross, because I personally think it is kinda unhealthy right now how powerful this mon has gotten. I am not saying that we should definitely suspect it or ban it or anything, however I do think there is lot's of reason to ask ourselves that question and have a discussion about it, because Eelektross has become dominant and meta-defining.

If there was one word you give to Eelektross, it is momentum. What role does momentum play in the metagame? Short answer is that it plays a HUGE role. Momentum means having control of the match, being the one in the driver's seat. It means making the opponent play defensively and making the plays that you want to make and execute the game plan you want to execute. Momentum is the equivalent of having an advantageous matchup with the pokemon on the field in a given moment, and using that advantage to make a play that will cripple the opposition. Momentum is something that is usually earned and rewarding in a match.

When Eelektross is successfully brought into the match, there is very little stopping it from granting a huge momentum swing in the user's favor. With Volt Switch and access to beautiful coverage in Giga Drain+Flamethrower, there are literally zero viable mons which are immune to volt switch and threaten Eelektross out. What this means is that there is no counterplay to stopping the momentum Eelektross generates once it is in the game safely, apart from well-played doubles which risk your Mudsdale or Lanturn getting it's item knocked off or Giga Drained. It has gotten to such a gross level of free momentum that people counter Eelektross by trying to run their own Eelektross and abuse it better. People even lower the speed IV's below 31 to try to underspeed opposing Eelektross and outpivot it.

Free momentum with no counterplay is not TERRIBLE for the meta (though definitely controversial), as long as it is hard to get yourself in a position to do so. However, Eelektross is actually bulky enough to where you can almost always lead with Eelektross and get free momentum right at the start of the game, with little to no drawback. The exception to this is bringing a powerful physical breaker such as Aggron or Stoutland, or a select few special breakers like Drampa, but if your team cannot fit this you are honestly out of luck. This is when you resort to leading with your own Eel and hoping your IV's underspeed the opposing Eel's IV's. We have seen multiple Eel vs Eel matchups in the beginning of snake games already because everyone uses Eelektross for the most part, and if you don't lead with it you are at a disadvantage. Eelektross also can switch into things like Mudsdale relatively free and get more free momentum, and this is really easy when the opposing Mudsdale is setting up stealth rocks. This is also just one of many things you switch into for free, with other things being Oricorios, Swanna, and Lanturn. So what i am trying to get across to you is this: Eelektross gives free momentum with no counterplay and it is very easy to get yourself into the position to gain this momentum multiple times in the match.

The only other way to deal with Eelektross besides to just try your best to outplay it and use your own Eelektross is by creating a team that massively pressures Eelektross to a point where it does not come in for free. This is very restrictive though because this automatically removes Oricorio-Pom Pom or Sensu from the question, Mudsdale, even stuff like Regirock and Metang honestly. It is very limited as to what you can build while trying to keep Eelektross 100% pressured, often forcing teams with Mudsale or Regirock anyways and just running that Eelektross of your own.

It has reached a point where almost every team could benefit from Eelektross and is almost at a disadvantage by not using it. Yes, you can have a strong breaker like Stoutland and you can even just have a really offensive team to pressure it, but at the end of the day if you are running balance with a strong breaker there will still be plenty of opportunities for Eelektross to get free momentum from the other 5 mons on the team. While it doesn't have recovery and can get weakened fairly quickly, by the time it is dead it has probably entered the game at least 3 times, meaning free moments of free momentum to do something big in the game. The meta is momentum-centric and eel-centric, and while I don't necessarily think that it means we need to ban eel I do think it is something to discuss and think about. Is Eelektross becoming too much? I am really curious to see other opinions on this.

Discussion Questions i'm interested in

1. How do you personally counter Eelektross in the builder, and what counterplay do you expect to have in games vs it?

2. Cores such as Muds/Vic/Eel are becoming very very popular. What do you think is the cause of this, and what is Eel's role in it?

3. What is your thoughts on the common Eel vs Eel lead and do you think this reflects the dominance of Eel, or something else?

4. Do you think Eelektross is unhealthy?

---

of course this is all just my own thoughts/opinions and i am sure there are many who disagree as this is a controversial PU topic rn I would say. I am not saying we should suspect Eelektross, but I do think having discussion on this is reasonable and if that is something people reach a conclusion on, cool. I just want to see more thoughts/opinions on it because it is the elephant in the room rn.

Eel, since the beginning of SM PU, was always good. It didn't "became" good, just more used. Exactly like Mesprit CM. Once they discovered how good it was during the PUPL or in every competitions before, almost everyone played it. The only thing that made Eel better imo was the big rise of Muds, which you can easily beat somehow with Eel. The recent rises didn't boost it either. At best, there was Guzzlord who walled it. But even there, it was easy to just Volt Switch or weaken it with Drain Punch/Superpower without feeling that your Eel set was badly influenced.

This is quite common to say that Volt-Turn is fucking good in PU. As you said, there is no real way to pressure Volt Switch users since they literally all have a coverage move to pressure/beat your Ground types or Electric type immunities. Which prevents you to punish them back. You're saying that one of the reason that makes Eelektross too strong for the meta is because of that. Well, in that case, a lot of Volt Switch users are viable in PU and are not more completely stoppable than Eel. For example, Lanturn doesn't have any absolute counter (aside from Gastro if you're not HP Grass I guess) and always get free momentum for your team. The thing is, does that make Lanturn broken? Not really, especially if you take in count the fact that you don't need a counter to everything. Like, if I had to apply this logic universally, stuff like Drampa would be OP too since there is only Carbink who totally walls it. Yet, it's easily manageable. As Eel is. Have we forgot what are offensive pressure or chip damage? A lot of offensive teams centralize their special bulk into Eel. However, Eel only beats few special threats and doesn't really want to switch on stuff since this Pokemon is really not that bulky in general ngl. Threats like Oma, Ludicolo, Victreebel, Frostom-Z or even Simisear pressure a lot Eelektross. Even Pom-Pom for a mid/late game sweep can use Eel to set up itself or it can just chip it since most of the time, it will only click Volt Switch.

So free momentum with no counterplay is not terrible for a tier and yet you're saying that this is what makes Eel potentially broken. I appreciate the fact that you want to be objective but this is weird from you to say. Oh and also, you're saying that leading Eel is really good for every player since there is "no real way to pressure it". Well in fact, it is so obvious that people will do this that you can easily play around this as I said. The fact that Eel will be forced to Volt Switch or simply switch against some stuff that he can't really touches without loosing too much HP (especially if you need Eel in your team to bring safely a breaker/powerful sweeper) like Chan, Absol, Kangaskhan, Stout/Aggron, Altaria etc. forces you to leave the field. I mean yeah, Eel is good but you can't pray to have an ultimate answer for everything. We need to use our creativity somehow (offensive pressure and chip damage/toxic as I said) or just adapt your team if you're really that weak to it. You're weak to Eel and you still want to play Swanna? Why not Liquidation over Scald? Lanturn is too passive for Eel? Why not Specs? I liked this set since one year and nobody uses it, which is weird (252+ SpA Choice Specs Lanturn Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Eelektross: 166-196 (44.3 - 52.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock ). < Look at this lmao. S/o to gum who gives it a shot, I really hope you appreciate this set!

And even there, what does that change if Eel has the advantage with the lead? Does that mean that you automatically loose? Having th momentum is good as you said, but it is clearly not enough to win every match. The simple fact that Eel is not that much powerful, that you can wall the upcoming Pokemon that Eel will bring or that you can sack one of your teammate that is not useful anymore (which happens a lot in offense/HO teams) makes it waaaay easier for you. What's the deal then exactly? I want to remind to everyone that teammates in a team are here for a reason. A Pokemon will never be good enough for you guys if you only take in count its 1v1 capability. However, I would agree that Eel alone is not that threatening. It is the combination of Eel+breaker/set up mons or momentum gainers that is interesting.

Quick question: Is it unhealthy to adapt yourself to a metagame or a trend? Not necessarily. I hardly see how it is possible to be so weak to Eel in general. Do you guys always spam Ferro/Clef, slow stuff or something? I don't get it. It always comes naturally to me to have a breaker/physical damage dealer or even a specially offensive mon that can handle/pressure Eel. Ok, I know that the typing and the ability of Eel doesn't give it any exploitable typing weakness but having no weakness is not that great when you have literally 0 useful resists (Except for the Flying and Ground ones I guess). Take in count that Eel is not invincible and that it relies a lot on Giga Drain to keep it healthy also. This is easily abusable. This or the simple fact that it is slow af and makes the checks more easy to pick. Since everyone is obsessed with that "IV creep" on Eel, it is again more than easy for Gurdurr, for example, to outspeed it and beat it... Eelektross mostly seems strong only because a looooot of person spam Mudsdale as their rocker. I hope that you guys realize it's not the only rocker in PU :D It's just to be sure.

Balance is not that optimal in this tier. Not bad, just not optimal sometime. The simple fact that Vic or Eel, who are almost everywhere, can break your tanks most of the time is just too much (rip Gastro, Clef, Ferro, spe def Sand-A, Muds, Regi etc.). In fact, let's talk about this. At which moment you can say "yo I need one last mon, Imma just put Eel, it always feats everywhere and it is really versatile"? By that, I mean that Eel is not that splashable and it is really predictable. Also, it doesn't provide that much for a team aside from momentum, a little bit of spe def with the AV and balance/bulky Pokemon abuser somehow. This is definitely not a thing that I would put in every teams since it's clearly not the only one who can does this... Eel is not brainless at this point, let's be honest. As you said, "there is no real way to block volt switch from Eel and punish it effectively". But this is the same with others mons. This is why Primeape, Lanturn and all are popular when you think about it (not only for this ofc, but it helps a lot).

You could summarize my thoughts by:

1. Eel seems broken because Mudsdale is used as fuck, and when Muds dies to Eel, you don't have any other physical wall most of the time. Which means that any physical threat can just whoop your ass quite easily. This is what happens most of the time.

2. Sooooooo..... Primeape, Lanturn, A-Persian Vallys and all are broken because they can espace the coming switch in, bring safely an ally or create momentum? Most of them also have good coverage for the potential SI too lmao. Yet, they are not broken. Why so?

3. What do we really build in PU if our teams are, in general, weak to Eel? The build must have the most slowest/weakest mons on earth

4. Eel is glue mon for simple breaker strats, nothing more but nothing less too. Eel all alone won't do that much except if this mon has the MU in a match. It's when you pair it with some other good mons that it is effective in its entirety. However, it still doesn't necessarily means that it is unhealthy. It just means that this is a mon who deserves its S rank at best.

5. There is bunch of stuff that can stop Eel doing its work whenever you build properly (Ground type - Toxic/Tect - Psyshock users - Altaria/Camerupt/Lanturn/Golurk/Drampa and etc.). But as I said, you don't need a counter to everything to win.


I just want to see more thoughts/opinions on it because it is the elephant in the room rn.
No my friend, it's more like snakes in a plane :p

That's all for me. I hope it helped you Tom and the others who are sharing the same opinion as him. Of course, this is only my opinion. I don't pretend to be right at 100% or anything.

Now I'm just waiting for the ones who said that "Victreebel is broken" to talk here. Boi, this is gonna be good.
 
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MZ

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One impression I have been getting from a lot of the snake and slam replays is that Eel+Vic looks highly dominant. It's not the only thing anyone ever uses, but if you go over every replay like I do for Untier Talk and you weren't highly familiar with the tier, it really would look like there's about one dominant play style and all you can do is try to find mild creativity around it. That being said, that's not how I feel about the tier at all. I find plenty of room to play around and subvert the VicEel stuff which is why I don't find Eelektross to be close to a suspectable issue right now. Do people feel like they're stuck in a similar rut? At the very least, are people feeling balance needs to consist of mostly the same Pokemon or that Vic or Eel is overbearing? These are the takes I'd like to see from people right now because while I don't think the replays are representative of the meta we could have, if this is the meta we are having regardless then something will need to be done.
 

UberSkitty

Assist Skitty was too broken for NDUbers
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
I think we need a suspect...but not the kind others have been saying.

Ah yes, Kingler. A mon that was banned a while ago with some still to this day unsure if it was warranted. I was one of those who believed it was unhealthy at the time. but things have changed.

So what exactly has changed?

Well, the major thing is that we have plenty more Kingler checks meaning Kingler can't just cover them with its coverage in one swoop. These include Jellicent and Gastrodon, and Pokemon like Tangela rising in usage. This is on top of checks we already had at the time such as Qwilfish, Ludicolo, Poliwrath, and Lurantis. All of these Pokemon mean it is less freely able to spam Liquidation, and as previously stated, it cannot cover all at the same time, especially if taking up slots to run Agility and/or Swords Dance. Furthermore, Kingler would often be forced to run Jolly/Naive if it wants the guaranteed outspeed of Timid Victreebel and other mons like Stoutland and Jolly/Modest Skuntank. This would lead to it being all the easier to defensively check.

Why now?

People are raving about Eelektross and Victreebel, and this mon has an interesting matchup against them. It cannot beat them 1v1, but is able to pick up the 2HKO meaning they cannot freely switch in on it. This would make people have to expand their resources for Water checks, giving the two much more competition from the previously mentioned Pokemon. Furthermore, Kingler would lower the usage of Pokemon like Mudsdale and Regirock, meaning Eelektross can't easily take advantage of them anymore. It also means people can't use the two as a core as much anymore.

Overall, I can def see why this mon could be a little overwhelming for the tier offensively, but I still think it deserves a second chance just to see how it does. Have fun bashing me in Discord.
 
I 100% agree with UberSkitty actually. Kingler would
1. heavily pressure Eelektross with some chip
2. pressure the two most common rockers right now, Mudsdale and Regirock
3. it has enough checks/counters to not be problematic probably

My philosophy at tiering to begin with was that if a mon is not broken, it should be in the tier. And not only do I think it would not be broken, but it also would actually benefit the meta. The only thing I could see being problematic is it being another breaker that appreciates Eelektross pivoting, but we have a lot of things that appreciate that and one more isn't going to change anything much more negatively. If anything it would not hurt to attempt this retest to see how the meta would feel with its presence. I think most people agree that there is something toxic/slumpy right now with the current meta, and this could be something that helps deal with this without making any bans, and just letting something back in that might not be broken anymore.
 
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Leni

formerly tlenit
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I think we need a suspect...but not the kind others have been saying.
.
I wont keep my thought hidden for this too long: NO.

Also writing this post now myself so no rumors need to be made around lol. Maybe uru follows then with his own smh, ig shared thoughts is not allowed at all within one post.

First of all Kingler is forcing lot of stuff out, which lets it get pretty free SD off in most of the scenarios. And even without the SD, its gonna do a hella lot with its 135base attack. The new counter mons listed can not take +2 Kingler at all, because of its super coverage, lets point that out with calcs for the newcomers like jelli and gastro:

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kingler Superpower vs. 252 HP / 108 Def Gastrodon: 442-521 (103.7 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kingler Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Colbur Berry Jellicent: 279-329 (69 - 81.4%) - And yes, this is really with a colbur berry....
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kingler Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Jellicent: 374-442 (92.5 - 109.4%) aaaaand without colbur berry

Kinglers biggest counter Tangela was here already earlier when kingler was not banned, and the main problem of it is clearly losing the eviolite on first time coming in. On second switch in its going be super hard to survive if rocks are up.

Kingler alone can and most likely will centralize building thanks to its ridiculous atk stat (135), mediocre speed tier (75) and good bulk on defensive side (115). Easy to build around and even easier to use as we have seen earlier.

Using the Mudsdale-Eelektross core as a sample for pressuring with Kingler feels a bit lazy argument for me. Why? In my honest opinion this core is living it's best hype right now and one of the reasons is Snake overall. Snake has a lot of players outside of PU world and in tournaments like this meta knowledge plays a big role. For a "newcomer" it is easy to slap top VR -ranked mons as they are already proved to be worth to use anyway. Why invent the bike again for couple weeks? We already have a lot of stuff to pressure this basic core and put them range for teams late game wincons.

For me, the Kingler is still way too strong and there is no good reason to have a re-suspect test for it.

Peace out. (ps. u can clearly see how it's even killing the mesprit below, so it has to be legit broken)

1568720861161.png
 

sugar ovens

blood inside
is a Top Tiering Contributor
My posts are usually tragic, but.. whatever. In my irrelevant opinion unbanning Kingler would be a huge mistake.

we have plenty more Kingler checks... ...Jellicent and Gastrodon, and Pokemon like Tangela rising in usage. This is on top of checks we already had at the time such as Qwilfish, Ludicolo, Poliwrath, and Lurantis...

...This would make people have to expand their resources for Water checks, giving the two much more competition... ...Kingler would lower the usage of Pokemon like Mudsdale and Regirock, meaning Eelektross can't easily take advantage of them anymore. It also means people can't use the two as a core as much anymore...
Aside of Kingler being able to break through most of its checks (yes, it would be pressured for moveslots and yes, tangela is a reliable counter and saying you just have to knock eviolite off and 2HKO it with ice beam is just dumb), this kind of speculating about how will Kingler improve the meta by pressuring the same common pokémon as Eelektross and Victreebel and forcing people to run sturdier water checks than these two, making them much less preferred choices on teams - introducing a potentially broken pokémon to force other potentially broken pokémon out of the meta - it doesn't really sound like a.. responsible thing to do.
I won't repeat what tlenit1 said about checking Kingler, but Jellicent, Gastrodon, Tangela, Qwilfish, Ludicolo, Poliwrath, Lurantis... do you remember the Pokémon that we are trying to pressure by introducing Kingler? Yes, Eelektross (and Victreebel) abuse these really, really well - and I'm sure Kingler would enjoy being brought in by these free Volt Switches. Kind of similar to Pyroar - Kingler interaction, just a bit less speed and more opportunities to break/setup for Kingler. If Eelektross is an insanely annoying Pokémon for balance, Agility Kingler is a pain for offense.

Eelektross suspect test, while it would make more sense than Kingler test is not necessary, too. Urusius probably has already said everything, but Eel is just very effective in trading its own health for momentum. It has good enough bulk to survive most attacks, but it has to take hits repeatedly to work, struggles to consistently check special attackers and it doesn't have power to beat most special walls. It will always be able to do at least something in a match similarly to Skuntank, but you can chip it, you can wall it. Making teams by slapping some speed control, hazard removal and hail check on Vic-Eel-Muds is easy and effective, but Eelektross is not unhealthy because it can feast on them.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned deucer.
When I came back after a break I was super feeling the bulky offense and oh my God, stall beat this to death vibe.

The meta is pretty damn shaken honestly, remember when people were like yo, what's my dog switch ins? I'll shake my wild ass B tier thoughts later, BUT! I think snake shifted the meta and people are afraid to get super wild

Shiinotic, eggy, tang, faticate,Cryogonal,any parting shot,screens, and eel are all my eel counters and tell me how stressed You'd be to run eel with a non realible fire mon turn one? No bullshit all that sleep, knock and nuking hits back and yeah it fuckin# hits like like a small country weeps over global warming causing a starvation.

I think eel can cause weaknesses but people just aren't counter building. Just over the fact this tier is about grass mon counters not ground mons.

Super anti neutral about this
 

MZ

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The final tier shift of gen 7 PU just happened! There's no official post, just social media announcements.
Gains: Torterra
Losses: Froslass, Quagsire
BL changes: Mega Abomasnow and Samurott went from PUBL to NU, which means we can't resuspect them
 

sugar ovens

blood inside
is a Top Tiering Contributor
This is actually quite nice. Quag - hasn't really been used on balance at all lately and stall can just switch to Pyuku (a good mon btw, often better than Quag) so.. doesn't matter. Lass - incredibly reliable and effective S-rank spiker which wasn't meta defining at all. Again not a hugely important loss - good mon but not something like Mesprit or Toge. Spikes offenses might get a bit bulkier with qwilfish/rose/ferro and our lack of fast spinblockers that actually can spinblock. Fine, less spikes - happier skipkan. Torterra is the mon that we really needed - solid rocker that is great versus all that muds-eel spam, but it doesn't seem to be as splashable as Muds. There's quite a lot of stuff that abuse it, like birds, ice weakness is huge too - it can't bop too eager Cryogonals with rock coverage quite as well as Muds, snowslash, random coverage, skunk etc etc. So hopefully with more competition among hazard setters and less prevalent Eel the meta might get better? Overall - I'm really happy with this shift.
 

Specs

Getting in your own way
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Hey! Gonna be discussing Torterra here just as a general how will this affect the meta, will it be good, what sets do I think we can expect to see ect.

:sm/torterra:
A new rocker is fantastic to add to the meta, Mudsdale most notably and Regirock have been dominating the role for the past couple months. Ferroseed is still very good, but hasn't caught up to them in viability or usage. Torterra I think will add a nice new option to what rocker you want on the team. The Victreebel match up is pretty huge, as well as being able to threaten Eelektross more is a big thing. Reliable recovery is sooooo nice, being able to sponge hits with it's great bulk and decent defensive typing and heal it off as it's actually quite hard to 2 hit ko. I don't expect it to just nuke Eel Muds out of the meta, but it will annoy it heavily and be put on some builds Muds might have been on otherwise.

Torterra @ Grassium Z
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Earthquake
- Synthesis
- Stealth Rock

Nice offensive rocking set, 164 allows it to outspeed Lanturn defensive Jellicent Drampa Roselia spdef Sandslash-Alola & +speed Carracosta. SD can be used over Stealth Rock or even Stone Edge to hit Oricorio Pom-Pom & Sensu trying to pivot in.

Torterra @ Grassium Z
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Earthquake
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance

Double Dance set has to be mentioned. Jolly can be used over Adamant, but the only things notable at +2 you're outspeeding is Scarf Kabutops & Skuntank which don't revenge you very easily w/o being very chipped anyways. Stone Edge with Rockium Z can be considered over Swords Dance or even Rock Polish I guess but the combination of the two is very nice to have.

Torterra @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Synthesis

This had been the most successful set I've used so far. Being able to tank hits from a majority of the special meta a long with a good portion of the physical meta thanks to the natural bulk and max HP EVs. Taking advantage of that you can SD up, tank a hit, synth it off a long with the nice recovery in Leftovers and start breaking. You're able to outpace Victreebel's trying to Strength Sap and never be 2 hit by Eelektross Flamethrower even after rocks. Some EVs can be taken off to speed creep Lanturn to ease that 1v1 and not risk getting burned.

To wrap it up I think Torterra will be a great mon in this meta. It has a lot of tools and ways to be optimized, so I'm really looking forward to seeing in be used this week in room tours and friendlies. But especially next week in snake to break those Vic Eel Muds builds. This is a very early post so apologies if I don't have all of the sets or techs that will most likely come up in the future. Hope you enjoyed reading, glad to have you back Torterra :]
 
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TTK

Narmaya. That's it.
is a Community Contributor
What's up PU. Just gonna share my thoughts on the latest tier shifts and what we lost and gained. I'm also gonna provoke some discussion with current mons that I think could get better in the upcoming future and what could get worse as well.

Rise of Froslass & Quagsire

First thing is the rise of Froslass and Quagsire to UU. Regarding Froslass, I don't think it's the biggest thing in the world. Yeah, we lost our best spiker but I don't think it will have a major impact. Other Spikes options include Qwilfish, which by default is the best spiker in the tier rn and it now doesn't really have to worry about competition from any other spiker rn because ferro is kinda eh imo and Roselia might as well be an unmon. It also invites more innovation I feel to try out some other spikers that I will get onto below.

The tier losing Quagsire hit mostly balance and stall archetypes, most notably stall since it was the premier Unaware user. They will have to revert back to using Pyuku, which is worse because the mon has no offensive presence and is so easily shut down by Taunt but it can still get the job done. Quagsire shall be missed on balance due to the fact it was a good physical wall that had the power to shut down the likes of Aggron, Lycanroc and Kabutops.

Gaining Torterra

Now we're getting onto the juicy stuff. We finally got our boy Torterra back from the evil clutches of NeverUsed, which refused to give us Miltank, Hitmontop and Piloswine. Anyway, Torterra is highly appreciated here. Being another solid Stealth Rock user that isn't Mudsdale or Regirock and also possesses a great matchup against both of them is pretty amazing imo. Torterra is also blessed to have recovery in Synthesis (albeit only 8PP but we move) and does well against both Eel and Victreebel like Specs said above which means that you have to be careful when using them now or Torterra is going to have a field day. Furthermore, good Attack stat alongside good 95/105/85 defences means Torterra can be a solid bulky pokemon. Here are some sets I think are gonna be good when using this mon.
Torterra @ Grassium Z
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
- Wood Hammer
- Earthquake
Double Dance aka "I wish I had Shell Smash" Torterra is definitely the first set that pops into my mind. Grass/Ground dual STAB is pretty crazy, hitting everything bar Flying, Bug and Steel but nothing really wants to be taking +2 Z-Wood Hammer in this meta. +2 speed reaches 464, which is slower than base 95 scarfers but Primeape isn't particularly winning the 1v1 if Torterra is healthy enough. This set offensively can put in a lot of work and should be accounted for when building. If you just want Rock Polish 3 attacks, then Stone Edge > Swords Dance. Still functions the same and still has good breaking power.

Torterra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Crunch (4th move is p whatever, Grass/Ground/Rock already hits everything. This is probably for Bronzor)
I doubt anyone has thought of Assault Vest but it popped into my head because on paper, it actually doesn't look bad. A bulky attacker with amazing dual STAB + coverage is good. Sorry I stole your EV spread Specs but I like the speed tier you're able to reach and it looks better than going max HP max Atk to get bopped by spdef slash for example. This set can just sponge hits from Eelektross and Victreebel and just really threatens them with dual STAB. I was checking calcs against this and it's p cool how scarf Aurorus never kills with Freeze-Dry and PomPom killing you with SSSS is only 6.3% chance to OHKO, leaving you to kill it with Stone Edge.

Mons that get better

Now we've reached the part of the post where I'm gonna share my thoughts on what gets better with the recent tier shifts.

I've already stated above that Froslass leaving makes Qwilfish the best spiker but I'll expand on Qwilfish. Overall, this mon is still doing the same thing it's been doing since it came back who knows when. Good Fighting check (it was better than lass), good speed tier and taunts and gets up Spikes. I won't be surprised if this spikes (see what I did there) up in usage because it's the most consistent spiker now and Kangaskhan is one of our most dangerous pokemon now and since I predict MudsRegi will slightly decline in usage, Kangaspikes is much better and Qwilfish is the one driving that. Speaking of Spikers, here's another spoiler tag discussing a potential hidden gem spiker in the meta.
Omastar @ Leftovers
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock / Earth Power
Omastar is interesting rn I feel as a spiker. Has the physical bulk to utilise weak armor well enough to outspeed threats and Scald/Ice Beam threatens every rocker rn and getting burns makes its job easier. Earth Power helps against spdef Slash or you can run it if you already have rocks.


Hitmonchan likes Froslass leaving because it was quite common so it couldn't spin most of the time. Don't get me wrong, Chan is still kinda bad as a spinner, we still have good ghosts around like Golurk (which hardwalls since you opt for t punch > ice punch), Ghostvally and Jellicent). I think where Chan shines is offensive and Toxic pinch berry without spin, it just can't spin properly.


Lanturn as of late has been overshadowed as an Electric-type bulky pivot by Eelektross due to the latter's better offensive presence, eel wins the 1v1 most of the time and no weakness but Lanturn is no slouch anymore. I've found Lanturn to be the best partner for our latest addition Torterra due to the flying, ice and fire resist Lanturn carries and Torterra handles ground types like Mudsdale that block Volt Switch without chipping your Lanturn in the process. Lanturn is also quite helpful to offensive Torterra, using Heal Bell to cure burns from will-o-wisps and scalds. Outside of good synergy with Torterra, Lanturn is still a good pivot and with Eel under pressure from Tort, we could see more Lanturn rising up (in no way does it beat it unless offensive but it pairs extremely well with it, completely blocking Eel's Volt Switch).

Mons that get worse


It's a shame Lycanroc isn't doing too hot as of late because it has a lot of positives with its speed tier and good damage but the meta trends do not favour this mon at all. Yay, it lost Quagsire which is good for it but Mudsdale and Regirock plus the new addition Torterra really put huge dents in Lycanroc attempting to wallbreak. It's not only those mons that just immediately shut down Lycanroc. Fighting types still exist and all of them pretty much pressure Lycanroc hard (Z-Zen Headbutt +2 deals with Chan and Gurdurr but its not common enough, just a p cool lure set) plus Tangela being one of the better physical walls means Lycanroc just need a lot of support which I don't find particularly worth it when there's more consistent wallbreakers/sweepers this tier has to offer.


This mon is just big yikes for me atm. After my ssnl games against Megazard, I started really thinking about why I should use this mon. It's just disappointing. This mon is a really bad rocker and is so severely outclassed by its peers Mudsdale and Regirock because it just underperforms everytime. Need a normal resist that is super bulky? Use regirock. Overall bulky stealth rocker that can actually switch into non super-effective attacks? Mudsdale it is. Even Torterra is a better rocker than Aggron and it's been here a day. Whoopie for Band though, it lost Quagsire but oh wait, Mudsdale still exists. Torterra still exists. I seriously can't tell you what I expect this mon to do in this meta. Magnet Rise + Toxic. That's legit all I can think of because I feel at such a disadvantage using this mon when MudsRegiTort are just better mons.

Thanks for reading guys! Felt good writing. One last thing, use Shiftry and Howl Stoutland or never play this fucking tier also risotto nero best character in vento aureo and kamen rider amazons is trash and edgy as fuck. goodbye nibbas.
 
I would like to talk about a Pokemon that really has had one the greatest comebacks in gen 7.

Musharna
musharna.gif
Musharna has really taken off as of late. Theres not many Mons in the tier that can provide defensive checking with win condition abilities, and it can provide both very effectively. Defensively its incredible because that Psychic typing lets it take any non super effective hit. Its got a pretty disapointing movepool but what it does get is good enough.

With popular Fighting types like Gurdurr around, Musharna can easily come in to them dead in there tracks. Speaking of, its easily the best fighting check in the tier as those Mons have huge issues trying to break through it.

I'm going to go through some cool sets I've used.

Future Sight

Musharna @ Psychium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 28 SpD / 100 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonlight
- Future Sight
- Dazzling Gleam
- Healing Wish/Thunder Wave

This is a pretty cool set that uses Musharna's bulk to set up powerful Future Sight to pressure the opposing team for its teammates. Z-Future Sight is also amazing as strong Psychic move so it isn't too reliant on Future Sight to deal damage. Healing Wish is cool for healing a teammate for a chance to sweep. Thunder Wave is cool as well, especially if your packing slow wallbreakers.

Calm Mind + Barrier

Musharna @ Psychium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Barrier
- Rest

I personally think Stall is required to have a dark type right now because of this one set. as it can just set up and literally be impossible to stop without them. Psychium is nice to have a one time nuke without having to boost. The combination of Synchronize + Rest is hell for defensive teams as it can easily stall out Heal Bells. Overall this set is one of the best stallbreakers in the tier.

Fairium Z

Musharna @ Fairium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Dazzling Gleam
- Moonlight

Before Mesprit left, this was really Musharna's only set. While I don't think its that hot anymore, its still a viable set that can prey on teams that relie on Dark types to wall it.

Conclusion

I think Musharna is easily the biggest beneficiary to Mesprit leaving as its now become the best Psychic type in the tier by a mile. The metagame has really favour its talents as well with Skuntank being used less popular as of late. Eelektross and popular fighting types running rampant rising which Musharna walls, and soft checking Victreebel are always appreciated.
 
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Specs

Getting in your own way
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Not really a big meta game as a whole post, but one mon in particular has been doing really well recently.

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/BACKUP-xyani/leafeon.gif

Leafeon recently has been doing work in the highest level of play. Seeing use in both games last week in snake, and has been seen 4 times (as of writing this post) the past 2 weeks of seasonal. We all know usage doesn't mean something is great, there is generally a correlation but it isn't always the case. This post will talk about why it has seen a spike in usage recently, most notably how the meta has made it better and why Z Celebrate a long with it's other options allow it to abuse the common builds we're seeing.

Grass resists aren't too hard to come by in the meta. Victreebel, Skuntank, Ferroseed, Sandslash-Alola, Tangela, Oricorio Pom-Pom/Sensu, even Drampa all do their job fairly well against a majority of the Grass types (some exceptions here and there.) However Leafeon has just enough ways around these (which I'll delve deeper into later) to be able to deal with, or scare out in some form. The standard builds prepped for the other Grass types and just solid teams in general that cover a majority of the bases aren't handling Leafeon well in the short or long term. It takes advantage of the meta very well. Take builds like Raiza's in this: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-1006744384-yz5jsxxuvadkxlbey0003demp0g0b7cpw or Lst's in this: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-1003422945 Both have ways of dealing with Grasses. Victreebel Ferroseed AV Eel to pivot in and Rotom to revenge them/maybe come in once. Lst's has less 'resists' but has ways of dealing with grasses with AV Eel Cryo Musharna and even Simisear to revenge. Yet the combination of Z Celebrate boosting Leafeon's defensive presence, not allowing Simisear or Cryogonal to revenge it thanks to the speed boost, and having the extra power to knock out things like Rotom-Frost after rocks allows it to become a massive threat to common builds. Don't want anybody to think I'm criticizing these teams, they're solid teams in the meta and cover a lot of other more prominent things. I'm more so making this point because of the fact that they are good teams, that represent the meta fairly well and have huge issues dealing with this mon. The defensive presence is the last thing that I'll cover in this section. Torterra being everywhere is huge for Leafeon, giving it a free switch every time outside of Toxic but you still get the free turn next to set up or do whatever. Mudsdale still seeing some use here and there, Regirock is still great, you tank Stoutland & Kanga, gotta watch out for Toxic Ferro but a majority of them are still not, Jellicent is seen more and more, ect. It's good bulk and just how the rocker/hazard meta is, benefits Leafeon a ton. Z Celebrate especially has a great defensive presence, not allowing things like Primeape even if they win the tie to revenge you. As well as having Synthesis to make sure things like Kangaskhan doesn't Fake Out + Double Edge you down.

On paper Leafeon's tools are limited, most notably the coverage. I've discussed this in a VR post from awhile back where I nominated it up (here if you wanna check it out.) But to go over it again Grass Dark Normal is actually really solid and gives a lot of the meta trouble to switch into. You aren't going to be running all 3 of them generally but, even having to find out which one they are running is a pain. Z moves also play into this as on Z Celebrate you have the option of either clicking Z Celebrate for a nice mid to late game clean, or just nuking/denting something with Z Double Edge. On your typical Swords Dance 2 attacks set you have to be weary of Z Double Edge or Z Leaf Blade. Leaf Blade allowing you to get that nice STAB nuke against things like Gurdurr, Oricorio Sensu, not having to set up to knock out Eel, ect. Z Double edge same thing as mentioned previously, gives you a great neutral nuke against grass resists like Victreebel, Drampa, Oricorio Pom-Pom, Skuntank, allows you to outpace Tangela, ect. Not much to say about Knock off really, it's busted and gives you a lot of utility in situations where you know you can't set up and break/clean yet. Though I should say, Knock Off should really only be considered on regular SD nowadays. Synthesis like I said previously makes it to where you can't be revenged as easily. It also capitalizes on the fact that you can scare things out because of them not knowing what combinations of moves you have/not wanting to give you that one turn of set up.

All in all I think this mon is great and has been a sleeper pick for awhile, but this meta has made it shine more than any other (and probably more than it ever will.) It's not like a top 10 mon or anything, and I don't want my wall of text to make it seem like I'm saying that. Just have a lot of experience using it for a majority of the gen, and knowing how it functions. Hope the train continues for it :)

Guess I should add in that this meta has been a blast to build in. Nothing feels over centralizing or too much, tons of variety out there. The common eel tort kind of builds are still there and doing well, and yet we have mons like this popping up and putting in work. It's great to see and the council has done a great job this gen, this tier really does feel at it's peak tbh.
 

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