Announcement np: SV OU Suspect Process, Round 2 - Munch

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Everything Storm and 3d wrote is true, and watching the smooth brains dogpile is wild af...

However, everything these intelligent players said is nullified by the meta we're in.

Pao would be this gen's Weavile- 100%
Much needed breaker, forces teams to think twice about corny team compositions, didn't dominate SPL, etc.

However, as I said in this thread already, Terra does push out Pao.

Terra pushes out a steady meta.

Pao will go, then Espa, who would also be fine w/o Terra, then Garg.
Then I guess, Roaring, or Val, or Pult, or King; and then it just steamrolls from there.
What we'll be left with is a terrible meta.

In the meantime we will waste another 2 weeks on Espa, pushing us into March.
Then another 2 weeks for Garg, which gets us close to Home meta.

Where we test all these mons again, right?
These mons we've banned need to be tested in a new environment.

But wait, we'll be focused on the shit show that is post-Home meta.

We'll have a few QB, but we will have at least 4-7 suspects before its all said and done.

It'll be damn near July before we get to a place to where the meta can begin to settle.
Not settle in July, but start to settle, and then finally people may start to realize there is no steady meta to be found due to Terra.
-
My stance on Terra is that the pro-Terra players are either:

A) A good player who simply lacks foresight and vision to how damaging this gimmick is to a meta in the long term

B) A bad player who like to click buttons

-
By damaging, I mean we're losing a breaker that holds the tier back from getting too Gargan/Pex/Corvi/Skel/Don/Clod

Eventually, and unfortunately, maybe years later- the majority will realize that Pao is just a symptom to a greater issue.

I wish I could vote no ban, just to show solidarity with the players who realize how detrimental losing the premier breaker will be to this meta.

However, I don't think I can in good faith due to Terra Dark Pao, which basically nothing can safely switch into.
You can even run boots, or sash, and thanks to Terra, you basically get to hold a LO without any drawback- or pair Pao with black glasses and you literally have a mon has a de facto choice band but can also use coverage/Sucker once it Terra's Dark.

It's too much power.

I knew weeks before gen 9 launch that the fact Terra boosts your STABS will be the thing that makes it too broken.
Shame such a fun and cool idea is just a bit too strong.

I'm still looking for a place where I can play gen 9 OU 6v6 singles.
Like an actual meta.
I feel like I'm in another universe where everyone was pro D-Max in gen 8 and I just have to sit here and take it lol.

Wild shit.
 
Everything Storm and 3d wrote is true, and watching the smooth brains dogpile is wild af...

However, everything these intelligent players said is nullified by the meta we're in.

Pao would be this gen's Weavile- 100%
Much needed breaker, forces teams to think twice about corny team compositions, didn't dominate SPL, etc.

However, as I said in this thread already, Terra does push out Pao.

Terra pushes out a steady meta.

Pao will go, then Espa, who would also be fine w/o Terra, then Garg.
Then I guess, Roaring, or Val, or Pult, or King; and then it just steamrolls from there.
What we'll be left with is a terrible meta.

In the meantime we will waste another 2 weeks on Espa, pushing us into March.
Then another 2 weeks for Garg, which gets us close to Home meta.

Where we test all these mons again, right?
These mons we've banned need to be tested in a new environment.

But wait, we'll be focused on the shit show that is post-Home meta.

We'll have a few QB, but we will have at least 4-7 suspects before its all said and done.

It'll be damn near July before we get to a place to where the meta can begin to settle.
Not settle in July, but start to settle, and then finally people may start to realize there is no steady meta to be found due to Terra.
-
My stance on Terra is that the pro-Terra players are either:

A) A good player who simply lacks foresight and vision to how damaging this gimmick is to a meta in the long term

B) A bad player who like to click buttons

-
By damaging, I mean we're losing a breaker that holds the tier back from getting too Gargan/Pex/Corvi/Skel/Don/Clod

Eventually, and unfortunately, maybe years later- the majority will realize that Pao is just a symptom to a greater issue.

I wish I could vote no ban, just to show solidarity with the players who realize how detrimental losing the premier breaker will be to this meta.

However, I don't think I can in good faith due to Terra Dark Pao, which basically nothing can safely switch into.
You can even run boots, or sash, and thanks to Terra, you basically get to hold a LO without any drawback- or pair Pao with black glasses and you literally have a mon has a de facto choice band but can also use coverage/Sucker once it Terra's Dark.

It's too much power.

I knew weeks before gen 9 launch that the fact Terra boosts your STABS will be the thing that makes it too broken.
Shame such a fun and cool idea is just a bit too strong.

I'm still looking for a place where I can play gen 9 OU 6v6 singles.
Like an actual meta.
I feel like I'm in another universe where everyone was pro D-Max in gen 8 and I just have to sit here and take it lol.

Wild shit.
Are we seeing the first case of Terastilization Suspect trauma?

Terastilization PTSD?

also, no, terastilization isn't necessary to make pao busted, if anything Tera is the easiest way to beat Pao by abusing its choice lock/taking a turn/unexpected

Tera is pretty neutral with Pao
 
Are we seeing the first case of Terastilization Suspect trauma?

Terastilization PTSD?

also, no, terastilization isn't necessary to make pao busted, if anything Tera is the easiest way to beat Pao by abusing its choice lock/taking a turn/unexpected

Tera is pretty neutral with Pao
Another hot take from ant :eeveehide:

Pao is literally one of the best users of Terra- if not the best.

Be careful though, you started to make sense there at the end.
It's almost like a dark/ice mon that's choice locked can be handled.
Y'know, one of my main points (I posted in another thread you were also ruining) about why Pao isn't broken.

Pao isn't broken. As a mon, it's a top tier breaker, which every meta has/needs.
Really wish we could keep it.
 
Another hot take from ant :eeveehide:

Pao is literally one of the best users of Terra- if not the best.

Be careful though, you started to make sense there at the end.
It's almost like a dark/ice mon that's choice locked can be handled.
Y'know, one of my main points (I posted in another thread you were also ruining) about why Pao isn't broken.

Pao isn't broken. As a mon, it's a top tier breaker, which every meta has/needs.
Really wish we could keep it.
Stop using ad hominems in every comment challenge (impossible)

Using tera to break out of choice lock is not the reason why Pao is broken. Spamming a STAB move that can 2HKO 99% of the tier doesn't need to care about being locked into it.

Not understanding how easy Pao can slot into teams with other tera options and not have to use it to clear out most of the opposing field is a fundamental misunderstanding of why Pao is problematic in the first place.
 
Listen, this tread is done.
Pao getting banned, Terra staying forever.

Really no reason to debate any more, and all I would be doing is regurgitating SZ and 3d's very valid points.

In 3 months when you're crying about not being able to break certain cores and crying for defensive mons to get banned I'll be there lol

My take is Terra pushes out Pao, you can agree with that or not, it really does not matter.
 
Everything Storm and 3d wrote is true, and watching the smooth brains dogpile is wild af...

However, everything these intelligent players said is nullified by the meta we're in.

Pao would be this gen's Weavile- 100%
Much needed breaker, forces teams to think twice about corny team compositions, didn't dominate SPL, etc.

However, as I said in this thread already, Terra does push out Pao.

Terra pushes out a steady meta.

Pao will go, then Espa, who would also be fine w/o Terra, then Garg.
Then I guess, Roaring, or Val, or Pult, or King; and then it just steamrolls from there.
What we'll be left with is a terrible meta.

In the meantime we will waste another 2 weeks on Espa, pushing us into March.
Then another 2 weeks for Garg, which gets us close to Home meta.

Where we test all these mons again, right?
These mons we've banned need to be tested in a new environment.

But wait, we'll be focused on the shit show that is post-Home meta.

We'll have a few QB, but we will have at least 4-7 suspects before its all said and done.

It'll be damn near July before we get to a place to where the meta can begin to settle.
Not settle in July, but start to settle, and then finally people may start to realize there is no steady meta to be found due to Terra.
-
My stance on Terra is that the pro-Terra players are either:

A) A good player who simply lacks foresight and vision to how damaging this gimmick is to a meta in the long term

B) A bad player who like to click buttons

-
By damaging, I mean we're losing a breaker that holds the tier back from getting too Gargan/Pex/Corvi/Skel/Don/Clod

Eventually, and unfortunately, maybe years later- the majority will realize that Pao is just a symptom to a greater issue.

I wish I could vote no ban, just to show solidarity with the players who realize how detrimental losing the premier breaker will be to this meta.

However, I don't think I can in good faith due to Terra Dark Pao, which basically nothing can safely switch into.
You can even run boots, or sash, and thanks to Terra, you basically get to hold a LO without any drawback- or pair Pao with black glasses and you literally have a mon has a de facto choice band but can also use coverage/Sucker once it Terra's Dark.

It's too much power.

I knew weeks before gen 9 launch that the fact Terra boosts your STABS will be the thing that makes it too broken.
Shame such a fun and cool idea is just a bit too strong.

I'm still looking for a place where I can play gen 9 OU 6v6 singles.
Like an actual meta.
I feel like I'm in another universe where everyone was pro D-Max in gen 8 and I just have to sit here and take it lol.

Wild shit.
The problem is, Pao is much too effective. Outspeeding everything except for a tiny handful of mons, for starters, with the one viable mon that outruns it being rekt by its priority. Also, saying it's okay because it didn't dominate SPL is missing the point. I also agree with another comment from someone else that if anything, it ENABLES lazy teambuilding rather than punishing it. For fuck's sake, one user said they went as far as using a niche Mismagius set with Focus Sash, as well as Will-o-Wisp and Memento, and another suggested relying on Volcarona's Flame Body to burn it. Those are blatantly grasping at straws, because both of those have extremely obvious flaws. Relying on a strategy that's ruined by Stealth Rock, and another that's more likely than not to accomplish nothing? Really now?
 
Gargan/Pex/Corvi/Skel/Don/Clod
generation 9 is moving from gen 8’s terrible triple regen cores into NEW TERRITORY with triple unaware!! We need to ban Dondozo before things go to far, or it will wall all of my teams from preview!! Chien-Based being banned is yet another blow to true players from the Smogon Stall Kings, and if it goes who knows what will be next? Iron Valiant? Regieleki? Urshifu?? Clearly they just want to remove anything that can handle toxapex so they can go back to gen 8 with its terrible meta and spam brainless stall like the low ELO cheese players they are. hopefully council will realize the danger they are putting gen 9 in before it’s too late.



Also I’m glad people are starting to realize Tera is the root problem for a LOT of overwhelming mons as the brokemons that stand on their own get filtered out. Hopefully they’ll see the light by the time the resuspect happens.
 
In 3 months Home will be out and Pao will be back in OU. Tera may even be investigated again.
Thank you for the info, Finch.
I know you're busy, so for you to take the time to keep me in the loop as a player is much appreciated- honestly.

You have a lot of work ahead of you in the coming months and I thank you in advance.

Your dedication and effort to make gen 9 as enjoyable and competitive as it can be does not go unnoticed, although it probably feels that way.

Gen 9 has so much potential- I know you can feel how close we are to something special; I wish you luck in navigating the perils of your position.
 

viivian

OU's sweetheart
is a Tiering Contributor
In 3 months Home will be out and Pao will be back in OU. Tera may even be investigated again.
shouldn't we wait to retest chien-pao when (or should i say if) DLC releases all the other cut staples like clefable, ferrothorn, tapus, UBs, etc.? i'm not a qualified player or anything but i don't believe HOME will be bringing us anything that could consistently check chien-pao, and anything you could list (urshifu, magearna, etc.) are very likely to be broken and unhealthy themselves. i'd love to hear why it should be retested before DLC drops though

terastallization should definitely be revisited by then however, i do think the influx of strong pokemon in the HOME meta warrants a retest for the mechanic. some very strong tera abusers will be arriving to the meta in a few weeks so giving it another look by then sounds pretty reasonable to me
 
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There are going to be dozens of new Pokemon that may be reshaping OU, so we tend to lean in the side of trying things out.
i agree that things should be tried out, but i don't see much post-home that answers pao reliably. all i can think of are diancie and carbink, which will likely remain unviable; magearna, the urshifus, and zamazenta/crowned, which might not remain in ou; and maybe volcanion and overqwil, and all of those except for magearna fall to sd anyway. so we're getting exactly one consistent answer and it might wind up back in ubers.
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
Thank you for the info, Finch.
I know you're busy, so for you to take the time to keep me in the loop as a player is much appreciated- honestly.

You have a lot of work ahead of you in the coming months and I thank you in advance.

Your dedication and effort to make gen 9 as enjoyable and competitive as it can be does not go unnoticed, although it probably feels that way.

Gen 9 has so much potential- I know you can feel how close we are to something special; I wish you luck in navigating the perils of your position.
This is like the Green Goblin except the Goblin turns you into a nice person
 
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