Metagame NP: Stage 0 - We've Only Just Begun (Welcome to SV NU) [Quickbans Post #142]

[BolTingBlazie]

Mabosstiff and Medicham: wreaking havoc on the tier

Daschbun:
View attachment 496171

Other quick thoughts on the drops: Cetitan is insane and we should definitely keep a very close eye on it, it's the only snow abuser tho so Obama should be fine, physically defensive sets could even act as a semi-decent Bruxish check outside of snow. Daschbun and Bombirdier are what I’m really excited for though, Daschbun for the reasons stated above and also being a good Wish passer, and Bombirdier having insane role compression with Rocks + Knock Off + Parting Shot. Really looking forward to how these drops shake up this meta!

Cetitan definitely seems super scary in NU, and genuinely could be stupidly op, we should definitely keep an eye on it.

 

[Lunar Sloth]

Very sad that we didn't get any more hazard removal options. Would have loved Komala or Cryo or something. Still the new drops are quite interesting!


Cetitan + Abomasnow sounds very scary and cetitan in particular feels broken. BD sets from cetitan are going to be terrifying and I legit don't know how you're supposed to deal with it without using Crocalor? +6 eq ohkos max def vaporeon after rocks and its a 50% roll without which is, kinda scary lol. Aboma by itself seems cool also. Does well vs sanda and vaporeon. Idk if it would want to be running max def, but that can also handle band bruxish somewhat with the defense boost from snow letting it avoid a 2hko.


Bombirdier seems suuper cool! Love the mon so happy to be able to use it. It has amazing options like rocks and knock while being able to pivot out with parting/u-turn. Offensive sets seem interesting too with its functional 3 stabs. Knock/brave bird/edge/u-turn or parting could be interesting. Could see setup with hone claws/edge/brave bird/knock being an option also? It's speed tier is also pretty nice for outspeeding max base 80s. Def a cool mon to have now.


Dachsbun seems okay. Purely having a usable fairy type without having to tera could be good. Its movepool is a bit barren but play rough/wish/roar/yawn/bpress are all useable options. Its HP is pitiful however so it doesn't take as much hits as the phys def would make you think.

 

[tom holland]

Bombirdier @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rocky Payload
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Rock Slide

just wanted to add my two cents that I think this set and similar variants of it will help keep passiman in check. It outspeeds passiman with its base 82 speed, has the type advantage with brave bird, packs uturn and knock off too, and gets a third stab and a flexible tera type to boost one of its stabs. Definitely a premiere scarfer imo with hazard removal support.

 

[wooper]

passing this cetitan set that i tinkered with before it likely gets banned

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Cetitan @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
Tera Type: Ice / Fairy / Steel
EVs: 240 Atk / 208 SpD / 60 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Spinner / Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam

i think this will be a really nice mon for handling the qd sweepers, frosmoth especially. 60 speed evs is for creeping uninvested defensive drifblim, but also means youre faster than mons like uninvested defensive sandaconda and klawf. 208 spdef with av means that +1 tera ground tera blast from timid frosmoth will never 2hko after rocks, meaning the sequence could go something like this: swap in cetitan on frosmoth quiver, heavy slam to ohko if they dont tera ground, or heavy slam into ice shard if they do tera. you could run a slightly different spread of 232 atk/204 spdef/72 speed to outspeed neutral nature max speed base 50s like perrserker while having only a 0.4% chance to be 2hko in the aforementioned tera ground frosmoth scenario. ice is a bad defensive typing, esp without boots, but i kept it as its tera type to have even stronger stab moves, but i can see fairy working to stomach a fighting-type attack and you still resist frosmoth's ice stab thanks to thick fat, or steel to have a better defensive profile while also boosting heavy slam. i wouldnt recommend tera water, because then you lose to giga drain from the quiver mons. struggles with vap and probably umbreon too, so keep that in mind.

ultimately, i think this mon is too much of a powerhouse for the tier, both in and out of snow, and i dont foresee it staying in the tier too long

edit: wait! theres more!

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Cetitan @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 116 HP / 72 Atk / 248 SpD / 72 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Spinner
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam

this spread takes on the above timid tera ground frosmoth, while also being able to handle modest variants without risk of being 2hko. heavy slam is still an ohko before frosmoth teras, and heavy slam + ice shard into ground frosmoth still picks up the ko. whats more notable about this variant, however, is that it is able to avoid the 2hko from +1 timid life orb giga drain lilligant with rocks up as well, as long as it is not tera grass (ew) or rock, and as long as you have sleep fodder.

and just your standard, run-of-the-mill bd set to be paired with abomasnow, which also dropped

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Cetitan @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Slush Rush
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 52 HP / 248 Atk / 208 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

outside of snow, 208 speed means you outspeed neutral nature max speed base 65s, and with slush rush active, you are faster than scarf bruxish, which is probably the most relevant scarfer we have outside of the occasional tauros. if you care about hitting that benchmark, you can go 84 hp/252 atk/172 speed jolly, but im not sure thats worth it tbh.

 

[CrabominableSolos7]

Tier shifts! https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usage-based-tier-update-for-march-2023-an-aroma-of-pu.3717197/

Abomasnow moved from RU to NU
Bombirdier moved from RU to NU
Cetitan moved from RU to NU
Dachsbun moved from RU to NU

Slush Rush Belly Drum Cetitan showing up to NU be like:

 

[schlondark]

Some of the frozen friends are looking kinda thick with the snowscape buff, especially potentially behind a veil and/or wearing a vest.

The forbidden eevee even looks kinda funny.

 

[EonX]

Can we say big winner of the tier shifts? Ok, maybe too big. Point is, Frosmoth was already potent enough to be looked at on the first ban vote for the tier and now it gets a Defense buff through Snow? (pre-Tera ofc) yeah, that's insane. Ice Scales already reduces Special Attack damage it takes and now it could potentially have a Defense boost from your Snow, or an even worse feeling, your opponent's Snow. Because, y'know, Frosmoth is good enough on its own without Snow. Tera Fighting looks really good here as a way to get one over on Crabominable and Cetitan after you've used the Snow Defense boost to get your Quiver off while still smacking Copperajah really hard. On Snow teams, it forms a mean offensive core with Cetitan as Croc can't handle both at once; it needs SpDef to handle Tera Ground Frosmoth (the preferred Tera on Snow teams for this reason), but it needs Defense to handle Cetitan reliably. Yeah, life is really good for this Pokemon. Here's one other that I feel got better as well... as if it needed any help with that.

Oh geez, a new sweeper to disguise itself as? Yeah, as if Zoro needed any help to get better, it just got it. Disguising Specs Zoroark as a Cetitan on Snow teams is insane and Band Zoroark does the same for Frosmoth Snow teams. Remember, Snow doesn't deal end-of-turn damage this gen, so Zoro's Illusion isn't obvious if Rocks aren't up. The addition of Dachsbun to the tier is slightly unfortunate for it, in particular the SD set that liked to run U-turn to act as a momentum grabber / keeper before going for a sweep, but it has Sludge Bomb on special sets and Tera Blast Poison on physical sets to overcome it.

As for our first true Fairy type.... it's ok. It's not as great as you'd like it to be in practice. The incredible Defense stat gets undermined by its pitiful base 57 HP and it has severe competition as a Wish user from Vaporeon and Umbreon, both of whom have much higher HP stats and great utility in their own right. Fire just isn't a common offensive type in the tier currently, which really makes it feel like Dachsbun doesn't have an ability most games unless it's facing Drifblim or support Rotom sets running Will-o-Wisp. As for being the savior vs Mabosstff, well, uh, you're gonna be disappointed and perhaps even disgusted at this calc:

252 Atk Choice Band Stakeout Mabosstiff Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dachsbun: 121-143 (38 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Now you can easily take the next one, which will be weaker, and Wish, but that's the problem A forced Wish + Protect is among the easiest things to capitalize on in the entire game as Dachsbun HAS to receive the Wish to avoid being 2HKOed on next switch in. And this is just assuming the best case scenario; the Mabosstiff is Tera Dark and doesn't decide to use it on your initial switch in. If it's Tera Fairy and uses it as you come in, well, let's just say your dog will not be man's best friend.

252 Atk Choice Band Stakeout Tera Fairy Mabosstiff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dachsbun: 271-321 (85.2 - 100.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Dachsbun will be a nice way to handle the Scarf Fighting types, namely Passimian, but don't expect it to handle the wallbreaking Fighting and Dark types nearly as well as you'd like or want it to.

 

[FlowerHater45]

Gonna follow the trend and yeet this Cetitan set out here before it gets yeeted out of the tier:

needle user (Cetitan) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Slush Rush
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Spinner
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Belly Drum


It is pretty much just standard BD Cetitan, with the only tweak being tera fire. I've seen some tera ice and tera fairy - ice seems wasted as the power is already ridiculous, only merit I could see it having is on BD sub sets, where Ice shard is the only ice move and thus could need a power boost. Fairy and other defensive tera types definitely have their merit, but I have been having fun with fire as it lets you bait will-o-wisps for a free setup, which is pretty easy seeing how tera fire is not very common right now (or at least I have not seen it yet). It also adds useful resistances to fire and steel, both of which are desirable moves to click against Cetitan. One drawback is of course that fire in general isn't a very good defensive typing, however it's not like anyone will be using BD for utility - the main priority should be to create a setup opportuinity.

 

[Punchshroom]

This mon is already one of my favorite Pokemon in this meta due to its sheer versatility while not being overtuned (unlike say Dudunsparce). The movepool this Pokemon has gives it the capability to fulfill a role that your team could want.

Bombirdier @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rocky Payload / Big Pecks
Tera Type: Flying / Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Stone Edge / Sucker Punch

Probably one of the first sets people gravitate towards when discussing Bombirdier, having the speed to outrun & revenge kill Passimian while still maintaining the ability to U-turn on top of having pretty spammable dual STABs are already the hallmarks of a top tier Scarfer for NU. Rocky Payload Rock STAB adds yet another move for Bombird to be able to throw out, but in practice I never actually clicked it all that much when Bombird's other attacks are so much safer to click. In fact, a move I actually consider having more often is Sucker Punch, which might sound counterintuitive on a Choice Scarf set of all things, but actually still has value in sniping multiple threats that may still outrun it, be it Lycanroc Accelerock / Bruxish & Basculin Aqua Jet, boosted mons like Oricorios / Unburden Drifblim, faster Scarfers like Rotom / Sawsbuck, etc. This is especially potent on opponents who are aware that you're Scarfed but do not expect still needing to deal with the threat of STAB Sucker Punch, which I personally appreciate more than having Rock STAB. Flying Tera is typically preferred to allow for easier cleanups with Brave Bird, but Dark Tera is perfectly acceptable to both have non-recoil boosted STAB and remove the Stealth Rock weakness.

Bombirdier @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Big Pecks
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Brave Bird
- U-turn / Stealth Rock / Parting Shot / Taunt
- Sucker Punch / Roost

Non-choiced Bombird aims to take maximum advantage of its Knock Offs, especially against switch-ins; Knock + BB does massive chunks of damage, Knock + Sucker puts heavy pressure on faster checks, while Knock + U-turn does solid chip against defensive switch-ins. Flying Tera is much preferred here as HDB means not having to deal with the SR weakness anyway, and Knock into Tera Brave Bird is quite brutal to stomach. With that said, if you do not find yourself needing all of these moves, the beauty of Bombirdier is that it has multiple options to consider. Bombird makes for a very competent offensive Stealth Rocker since it threatens literally all the hazard removers. Roost is a nice option just for longevity. Taunt comboes well with Knock Off to pressure defensive mons, and especially more so if you have U-turn / Roost. Even Parting Shot can be considered for an alternative pivoting move. The sheer amount of options that Bombirdier has at its disposal is staggering, and is extremely customizable as a result.

Bombirdier @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rocky Payload / Big Pecks
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Memento
- Rock Tomb / Knock Off

I mentioned offhandedly that Bombird can threaten nearly all of the hazard removers; this set fully capitalizes on that aspect to become one of the better suicide leads in the meta. Stealth Rock, Taunt, and Memento are all amazing for giving your team a head start. I honestly prefer Rock Tomb on this set since the speed drop essentially gives Bombird an "extra turn" against faster opponents to do what it needs to, especially against faster Taunt users, but Knock Off can be used as the "default safe STAB" if you choose. The Tera type isn't particularly important for a suicide lead, but if you must, I'd probably recommend Tera Ground to flip the matchup against lead Lycanrocs as well as block Volt Switch, which is otherwise an annoying way for the opponent to break Bombird's Sash / KO it without having to deal with Bombird's Rock Tomb speed drop.

Bombirdier's extensive movepool means there are still other potential sets that it can try to use, like "Hone Claws + Power Trip" or a bulky Bombird variant with moves like Whirlwind and Foul Play. While I don't think these sets are particularly fitting for this current meta, they're still sets to keep in mind. Bombird is deceptively versatile and it'd likely be able to offer something for your team.