np: SM UU Stage 10.2 - Bug A Boo (Scizor remains UU)

[pdt]

We have so many pokemon that can answer to drizzle abusers, such as Toxicroak, Jellicent, Gastrodon, etc. Therefore, I don't see any problem in allowing drizzle into the tier. On the other hand, Drought CAN be overwhelming with Houndoom-Mega. Mega Doom in my opinion, insures atleast 2-3 KO's in the sun with it's NP Dual Stab + Sludgebomb set. Sooooooo, yeah, I'm with the UU Community suspecting the weathers, I just think Drizzle has a higher chance of getting unbanned while Drought is something else.

just because they have water absorb doesn't mean they can handle rain abusers though, and putting that much limitation on building just not to lose the rain matchup would greatly hamper teambuilding imo. i think weather is going to be a lot better than people are making it out to be, since we still have solid abusers within the tier that have good coverage options to deal with many of the checks listed. i wouldn't have a problem with a suspect but just off of theorymonning i think rain will be very good and make it very difficult to get decent matchups vs all playstyles without autolosing to rain at points. I also think rain would be better than sun, just due to the viability of its abusers and in general having a much better typing and utility compared to chlorophyll mons and drought setters. mega houndoom is a big one but imo kingdra, kabutops, ludicolo will be much more dangerous than venusaur / houndoom w/ better defensive typing and utility

 

[sasol]

just because they have water absorb doesn't mean they can handle rain abusers though, and putting that much limitation on building just not to lose the rain matchup would greatly hamper teambuilding imo. i think weather is going to be a lot better than people are making it out to be, since we still have solid abusers within the tier that have good coverage options to deal with many of the checks listed. i wouldn't have a problem with a suspect but just off of theorymonning i think rain will be very good and make it very difficult to get decent matchups vs all playstyles without autolosing to rain at points. I also think rain would be better than sun, just due to the viability of its abusers and in general having a much better typing and utility compared to chlorophyll mons and drought setters. mega houndoom is a big one but imo kingdra, kabutops, ludicolo will be much more dangerous than venusaur / houndoom w/ better defensive typing and utility

Is this really true though? venusaur cannot be poisoned by defensive walls which is how stalls usually deal with this kind of setup, moreover it has a boosting move + isnt weak to intimidate, which cant be said for ludicolo and kabutops respectively.

Houndoom is similar, it is immune to prankster t-wave which is how offense usually deals with turn 1 threats, and can boost. Viability is an interesting thing to bring up, because theyre all roughly floating in the same interval of low tiers, and their typing really isnt anything compared to poison/grass and dark imo

 

[pdt]

Is this really true though? venusaur cannot be poisoned by defensive walls which is how stalls usually deal with this kind of setup, moreover it has a boosting move + isnt weak to intimidate, which cant be said for ludicolo and kabutops respectively.

Houndoom is similar, it is immune to prankster t-wave which is how offense usually deals with turn 1 threats, and can boost. Viability is an interesting thing to bring up, because theyre all roughly floating in the same interval of low tiers, and their typing really isnt anything compared to poison/grass and dark imo

water is better defensive typing than fire / grass. venusaur does have a good stall matchup but against any other archetype having a bp resist can be vastly more valuable. in terms of setters as well drizzle setters aren't weak to rocks and can generally come in many more times than ninetales / torkoal. dark/fire is a terrible defensive typing, even if it does resist bp as well as taking rocks / solar power regardless. boosting is great but houndoom would rather click attacks vs anything else thats not stall, and its typing doesn't give it great setup opportunities besides the switches it can force. i've messed around with weather without auto-setters and rain abusers can come in a lot easier than venusaur / houndoom. its also worth mentioning that latias can check venusaur rather well unless its at +2 as well as its stabs being a lot less spammable when opp can play around with hp fire / sludge bomb + giga drain shenanigans. moreover rain has a lot more flexibility in choosing which abusers it wants while sun has just houndoom and venusaur + worse grasses than venu. not saying that sun wouldn't be viable at all but in general i think that rain has more flexibility and defensive utility all around. some good valid points in your argument though

 

[sims796]

having a bp resist

I'm sorry, what's that?

EDIT: Bullet Punch! I just got it! That was a fun puzzle. I was thinking Baton Pass and was like "that's illegal".

 

[pokemonisfun]

I played like 30 games on the ladder today with Defog Volcanion. Such a cool mon to build bulky offense with since it gives you a Scizor counter and a Primarina counter in one (which is why I think Sludge Wave/Bomb move is best on it). And it gives effective hazard control since mos t setters are scared af when they see Volcanion.

Plus Timid outspeeds all the Adamant Altaria and Mamoswine running around now.

Dragons and Blissey and sadly Suicune are big problemos but in general I suggest building with Volcanion since it just frees a lot of constraints in one slot.

Go use Volcanion if you’re bored!!

 

[Sickist]

I played like 30 games on the ladder today with Defog Volcanion. Such a cool mon to build bulky offense with since it gives you a Scizor counter and a Primarina counter in one (which is why I think Sludge Wave/Bomb move is best on it). And it gives effective hazard control since mos t setters are scared af when they see Volcanion.

Plus Timid outspeeds all the Adamant Altaria and Mamoswine running around now.

Dragons and Blissey and sadly Suicune are big problemos but in general I suggest building with Volcanion since it just frees a lot of constraints in one slot.

Go use Volcanion if you’re bored!!

I like the idea, especially as a builder, I always enjoy finding new things for role compression. Could you provide some replays and the set in question, if you don't mind, to see how it works in practice?

The role compression could offer alot, but it most likely will require wish support, so in theory, you'd probably only see it on balance and maybe semistall. I'm still stoaked to try it out, and cannot wait for your response so I can use it myself!

 

[pokemonisfun]

I like the idea, especially as a builder, I always enjoy finding new things for role compression. Could you provide some replays and the set in question, if you don't mind, to see how it works in practice?

The role compression could offer alot, but it most likely will require wish support, so in theory, you'd probably only see it on balance and maybe semistall. I'm still stoaked to try it out, and cannot wait for your response so I can use it myself!

No replays!

1) I really don’t have them sorry
2) There’s this replay fetish where people always ask to see things “in practice”. Pokémon isn’t so complicated and I’m not saying anything controversial, obviously Volcanion beats Primarina and Scizor you don’t need to see a replay of Flamethrower OHKOing Scizor. Instead of always asking for replays I find it way more productive to ask what a replay shows you, what you learn from it, and what you’re expecting from the Pokémon.

Actually I’m not sympathetic at all to this “REPLAYS??!!?” fetish everyone has, don’t ask me for replays, ask me what you’re looking for. A reasonable question might be “As a SR weak Pokémon, does Volcanion still counter Scizor?” Or “As Latias is commonly partnered with Scizor, can Volcanion still be effective?”

A replay may or may not shed light on these questions. A replay at most is showing 12 Pokémon and 2 teams. The metagame as we all know is far more complicated than that so we shouldn’t use replays as trying to understand a Pokemon’s role in that metagame but as a way of showing how a Pokémon can fulfill a particular role.

3) I could give you a set but if you read my post you know I’m Timid and Defog and Sludge Bomb/Wave already. You and anyone else using Smogon is good enough to fill in the rest (Steam Eruption and Fire STAB). Pretty obviously max SpA and Spe. The point is, if you see an idea that you want to adapt, you can always ask yourself “how can I make it better for myself?” It’s not a complicated set at all you can just make it yourself.

If you really want my teams or sets or want to chat or whatever message me privately, not on the forums.

It’s not just you Sickist and I could be entirely wrong still, but my main point is I dislike the misplaced demand for replays.