Metagame np: SM UU Stage 10.1 - Things That Scare Me (Mega Sableye remains banned, see post 37)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Fusion Flare

i have hired this cat to stare at you
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
I recently PMd the UU Tier Leaders about this, but prior to that point, I will admit that I was uneducated or not thinking a ton about how much Scizor held the tier together. I don't know if I'm in agreement that it is "worth" keeping Sciz, but it makes more sense then I had thought. I don't really care about Smogon's tiering purity, for me it has always been about if banning a mon would make the meta more fun, and my first instinct is that banning Sciz would make UU more fun. While I'll backtrack a bit on that now, here is what I originally wrote:

Hey team,

Please do not consider anything I write in here as a joke or anything to that effect, I am being genuinely very serious.

When I first played SM UU in tournament (SSD I) I quickly learned to despise Scizor. It's type, ability and sheer number of sets made it close to un-counterable aside from using Magneton, which tended to throw off the balance of a team quite a bit (it offers fairly poor utility, in my estimation, aside from trapping Scizor.) However, at that time as most of you will remember, we somehow had even more broken/annoying threats in the tier (remember banning Mega Latias, Mega Gardevoir, Jirachi and Weavile all in the span of like a month?) Scizor, of course, stayed more or less under the radar because of these threats.

I'll admit I've not been terribly active in the tier beyond spectating from then until SSD II and SPL, where I learned it to some extent to be able to help where I could (not much). One very consistent factor is how much of the tier is outrageously warped by this mon, however. Scizor's utility is, in my estimation, completely unmatched. You can use it for momentum, to trap, to sweep, to wall, all in one. Finding out the set it is using is difficult, and often an exercise in getting your team broken anyway.

The set I used in getting reqs was SD Iron Plate with BP, Superpower and Bug Bite. I found absolutely no consistent checks to this set, even going so far as to say to myself at the start over every match that my gameplan was just going to be "SR --> setup an SD". Pokemon like Rotom-H or Moltres are, in short, underwhelming to check Scizor due to their weakness from rocks. I imagine if I spent another half hour or so attempting to teambuild I could piece together an offensive core that takes advantage of broken Rotom-Hs and make the team even better.

Is there a reason that there seems to be no discussion surrounding suspecting this Pokemon? From the bottom of my heart it feels outrageously good for the tier, capable of winning games on its own over and over and over, even if the player against it plays well, it feels like if they lack a specific counter (and the right counter at that) then they will lose.

Please let me know any thoughts, or if I am just outside of the bounds here.
A notable check i find to deal with your set is Jellicent. See calcs below.

The strongest attack your Scizor has over Jellicent is bug bite, which does:
+2 204+ Atk Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Jellicent: 147-174 (36.3 - 43%) -- 97.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I ran the set of 252 HP / 208+ Def / 48 Spe to speed creep it, so it can click Will-O-Wisp before Scizor can click any other move other than BP, which only 4Hkos and become far more handlable.
 

Hogg

grubbing in the ashes
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Just as an update, we WILL be moving forward with a Scizor test.

Tier leadership has been very divided over this issue, as has the council. However, despite the lack of consensus (or perhaps because of it), we've decided that the safest course of action is to hold the suspect test and put this issue into the hands of the community. After all, if Scizor truly is a major negative presence in UU, we will likely not have another chance to properly address it. Though many of us still feel very strongly that Scizor belongs in this tier, we decided that it was better to have an opportunity to address its impact rather than leave this issue hanging and potentially regret it later.

Regarding the timing of any suspects, I touched on our planned schedule in one of my earlier replies, but our plan is to run a two week test for Scizor to conclude on Sunday, June 2, 2019. If the community decides to ban Scizor, we will immediately proceed with a Mega Altaria test, set to conclude on Sunday, June 16, 2019, just before UU Open begins. I am working with Pearl and the UU Open hosts to ensure that if this happens, we can conclude any necessary voting prior to round 1 going up. From there, we will allow the tier to settle for the first two rounds of UU Open, and determine if anything else requires a suspect test.

If Scizor is NOT deemed banworthy, we will relax the timeline a bit, since there becomes less of an impetus to have a second suspect conclude prior to UU Open. Right now the council is discussing two main potential suspects if Scizor does stay around. One is to test Mega Altaria, which many believe may be banworthy even if Scizor remains in the tier. The other is to provide a public test for Drizzle and Drought. Drizzle was banned in a very close council vote back in UU Beta, after multiple previous votes had failed to ban it, at a time when it looked inevitable that Mega Swampert would drop to UU in short order. Much has changed with the tier since then, and if we are not making any drastic changes to the tier, the council has decided that these weather abilities deserve a test in the public arena. However, this is not set in stone, and we will keep the community abreast of our plans.

Pearl will be posting the test later today. Thanks to everyone who has provided feedback here, in our Discord and in the PS! room.
 
Feels like that's too much changes before the Open tour.
I've always been up for a Scizor test even thought i'm against its ban but that's coming too late for me. It'd have been cool to have it like 5 monthes ago when the tier needed some changes. Even thought the tier isn't dead yet, we're getting closer to it with next gen coming and i don't know if it's the good choice to hold a suspect that could totally change the tier that late.
Always felt like Scizor was like Lando in OU. Strong but too important in the tier to handle threats. It can hold so many roles and can handle so many threats that banning it would lead to a total tier transformation and idk if the tier will have time to stabilize itself. Banning Zor would lead to a lot of other suspects (like Hogg mentionned Malt but we can also mention Terrak that would be even stronger / Aerodactyl and such). Pretty sure Malt wouldn't survive in UU without Zor, making stalls even stronger and restricting our builds option to check the likes of Hydrei or Latias.

Surely be a suspect test you don't want to miss and you'll need to voice your opinion cause it can change the tier like never before
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top