Metagame NP: RU Stage 11 - Lights (Necrozma Suspect Test)

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EviGaro

is a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
RU Leader





Hlelo everyone, here is the long long awaited (Feen ) Necrozma suspect test! On the last RU survey, it was pretty clearly at the top of the voters' mind, and council agreed it was also worthy of the next suspect.

Necrozma was one of the big winners of the generational shift. Despite losing potential oomph in z-moves, the addition of Dragon Dance and Meteor Beam added a ton of versatility to its game. Dragon Dance made physical sets able to threaten offence more effectively, similarly Meteor Beam adds a dimension to rocks sets or rock polish that wasn't quite the same with z-move. However, CM sets and SD sets are as good as they have ever been on their own as well, as Necrozma also likes not having to get smacked by a strong z-move. All of this leads to a mon with very, very few counters, especially since people have started making their SD Necrozma able to beat Umbreon on the switch. Prism Armor is also an extremely useful ability in those scenarios, making it eat a hit from one of the few strong darks around and potentially able to hold off Golisopod with sufficient investment. This ability to hold off offensive pressure, coupled to multiple viable boosting sets and an ability to fit almost every possible play style make Necrozma a very concerning presence for the metagame, as it's super easy to use and sometimes very hard to guess what it will do.

Nevertheless, Necrozma is ofc not perfect. It has the right coverage for the metagame, but always potentially so: it obviously will not beat everything it wants to with any one set. Its bulk is outstanding for such a good sweeper, but sometimes cuts a little bit short vs strong breakers that don't quite need to hit supereffectively to do work. Its speed is also a little underwhelming, as dragon dance will almost always need two to outpace scarfers, which can be a bit tricky to get, and hitting just below Togekiss for any setup sweeper can lead to frustration. Despite also being the most versatile mon in the tier, Necrozma will not be seen with boots, leaving it more at risk to hazard chip than most of the metagame. It can of course be argued that these issues are more straightforward for the Necrozma user, while on the other hand building against Necrozma is more open to guesses, but it would be unfair to not pretend those issues exist

So is it finally time to ban Necrozma, nearly half a decade after its first - and... only? - appearance on a RU voting slate? It's up to you to decide! Tagging Kris and Marty to announce it on the RU ladder, thank you both!

GXEminimum games
7850
78.249
78.448
78.647
78.846
7945
79.244
79.443
79.642
79.841
8040
80.239
80.438
80.637
80.836
8135
81.234
81.433
81.632
81.831
8230

Suspect information:
  • There will be no draws allowed for any potential qualifiers. If you qualify with draws, your suspect requirements will not count and you will not be allowed to vote. There is no way to actively enforce ties to prevent abuse, so they will be disallowed. Use stall at your own risk.
  • All games must be played on the Pokemon Showdown! RU ladder on a new alt with the following format: "RUN3 (nickname)”. For example, RUN3 Reuni?? or RUN3 sdcmmb
  • Do NOT impersonate other people in your ladder alt, do NOT use any usernames which are offensive, flame-baiting, or targeting specific users, and do NOT use usernames which could be interpreted as breaking any of the username rules on Pokemon Showdown! Failure to abide to this will result in you being barred from voting in this suspect, and potential infractions.
  • The suspect test will last for two weeks, ending on Sunday, February 6th. 11pm - 5
/!\ NOTICE /!\ RU will not be tolerating any form of voting manipulation. Any attempt to manipulate votes can result in an infraction, loss of eligibility to vote in the current test, and loss of the Tiering Contributor badge. While we won't necessarily enforce super strict punishment, this won't be tolerated and will be handled accordingly. Voting manipulation can simply be described as attempting to get people to vote a way on the test in inappropriate manners. Bribing with teams to vote a certain way, directly messaging people to vote a certain way, publicly announcing "vote this way" all fall under voting manipulation. For more query feel free to PM me or phantom.

Happy laddering!
 

A floor Mat

The Official Floor Mat of Rarley Used
I have been meaning to make this post for a long time now. Today I wish to discuss what might be one of the most dangerous Pokemon the SS RU tier has seen to date. This Mon is a good example of what happens when the council does not look into oppressive threats in a tier and the consequences that befold those who fail to act............BEHOLD!
:xy/Lickitung:
Lickitung @ Eviolite
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Brave Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Ice Beam
- Power Whip

I am sure all those who have played SS RU knew damn well who I was talking about, the demon Lickitung (or what the ladder calls LickitGOD). Lickitgod has many traits that allow it to be the best mon in RU, its good natural bulk with the addition of Eviolite makes for a very sturdy wall, I mean check out some calcs.

236 Atk Flygon Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Lickitung: 85-102 (22.1 - 26.6%) -- 17.1% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Golisopod First Impression vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Lickitung: 100-118 (26.1 - 30.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Lickitung: 123-145 (32.1 - 37.8%) -- 94.6% chance to 3HKO

Pitifull damage + Lickitung can wish + Ratio

As for its offensive capabilities, it's arguably one of the most versatile threats with almost no investment in offensive stats look at these calcs
8+ Atk Lickitung Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Seismitoad: 220-260 (53.1 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8+ Atk Lickitung Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 220-260 (51.6 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8+ Atk Lickitung Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 240-284 (85.4 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Lickitung Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 20 SpD Flygon: 204-240 (67.7 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Lickitung Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 204-244 (65.5 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Broken please nerf
and here is a replay https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1543752366

So ya its movepool, broken typing, and ridiculous bulk have proven to be way too powerful for SS RU to handle as of April 1st, 2022, I hope the council can take action against this mon as soon as possible. Thanks for reading:blobthumbsup:
 

Feliburn

is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
RU Leader
Hey guys, so we can probably talk about the meta for a bit.



We lost Cobalion, Darmanitan and Volcanion in this last shift. Honestly pretty big losses for the tier, as they were all very prominent pokemon. Cobalion was a do-it-all as usual. It was a solid rocker for more offensive teams; it also worked as a breaker in fatter teams, being able to use Swords Dance + STABs + coverage between Stone Edge and Megahorn, or even Volt Switch as a momentum giver. As always, it also worked as a check to so much in this tier, but more importantly Obstagoon.

Darmanitan was a pokemon that just kept getting more and more usage lately, being a fantastic scarfer in a more offensive oriented metagame. Its ability to hit hard from the get go, and provide momentum was a nice fit to offensive teams.

Volcanion was also a mon that very few teams were happy to face. Natural bulk, hits super hard, and had role compression as a Defog user too. Volcanion was a prevalent tool at making progress for a lot of teams, as it also had the super cracked Scald.

Just quick overview of these mons, don't wanna say stuff you've seen everywhere.

Now my question is, how will the meta progress from here?


The main pokemon I can see being annoying is Obstagoon. This mon was already insanely good, and it just lost its best offensive check. There are still tools to handle it like slapping Body Press on your physically defensive Registeel, or using offensive enough teams. But the truth is on paper, this mon can barely be checked by Weezing and that's about it. Not much can take the combination of Facade + Knock Off + Close Combat.

I'd like to know people's thoughts on Obstagoon, and its position in the RU metagame. I know a lot of people have vouched for it to be banned, but it never hurts to explain why.

Another thing I'd like to point out is how strong offensive waters became in the meta just before the shifts. A lot of teams just fold to stuff like offensive Starmie and Inteleon. I just wanted to point this out in case people have noticed certain tendencies like this one too.
 

EviGaro

is a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
RU Leader
I'm still a tiny bit skeptical on Obstagoon, but wouldn't really mind action on it if it came down to it. It's still threatening af offensively but the fundamental flaw it had somewhat remains, it's a mon with very very meh defensive synergy on a typing you typically want more of that from. It can theoretically tank a lot of it from full, sure, but the role of the mon it wants to pull off successfully demands it to take chip. Like it sounds great to always live a hit from +1 Flygon, but outrage kos after rocks and one burn, EQ, after two rocks and one burn if that ever happens, and that's really the main target you'd be like dang that thing has bulk.

Not to mention, there's been some movement in the way people build recently that really annoy it. berry Reuniclus kinda does not care with boost up if you can maintain it, and again, the way people build goon will generally have to carry the weight of breaking cm reuniclus (haze mons are possible but kinda weird with a goon archetype) klefki sets that temporize vs it well, lots of Rhyperior Steelix Regis, nothing here is essentially like... bad vs the meta right now anyway. Goon forced a lot of those sets to begin with, it's true, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I'm not sure yet, I mean yes it's kinda fast - though vs offence not like it would want - and it has superb coverage in three moves, it's very easy to struggle on the switch vs it to a point it can get comical, but it's very much a teambuilder demon and one people are working around to a certain extent. To whatever that extent will remain viable once people get creative with it rather than against it is a complete unknown though, and definitely something to keep in mind here.

Another mon that completely gets better without Cobalion though is Mimikyu, and imo is just a pain in practice because its ability is nonsensical. Sneak is crazy after SD vs offence, as it's remarkably difficult to find something faster after the disguise break that doesn't get 2hkoed by the move. It struggles a bit more vs bulkier teams it's true but then Shadow Claw + Drain Punch can get very much out of hand with the right wear and tear on those teams. I'm not sure it's up there either, though facing it on preview can certain provoke a ugh react, and I don't think a meta where this gets better will eventually end up great.

Also Sharpedo lost more checks can I ban it now
 
It's me, the weirdo who runs Bulky DD Flygon!

I've made a couple of tweaks to the set since I originally posted it in HEAT that have led to a lot of success (sustained ~1500 ELO for a truly mediocre player), so I thought I'd share.

Flygon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 152 Def / 108 Spe
Impish Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

The big change is LO over Lefties/Lum Berry. Running leftovers, this thing was just a pale imitation of the defensive pivot with u-turn. Lum let you boost more, but the big problem was a lack of power unboosted/at +1. Uninvested LO Flygon is actually a teensy bit stronger than neutral 252 Attack, letting you nab all of those juicy OHKOs on frailer ground-weak mons and providing just enough oomph to 2HKO Milotic or Umbreon on the switch at +1 after rocks.

Speed EVs let you outpace fully-invested base 70s, which is less important with Volc gone, so it might be worth moving back to 72 Speed EVs to outrun Noivern at +1.

Honestly, though, this set kind of hates seeing Coba and Darm leave, since those were two of the things it checked best:
252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 152+ Def Flygon: 123-146 (33.8 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 152+ Def Flygon: 141-166 (38.8 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

You could always switch into those mons in the early game and pick your poison between roost/DD. But the set still finds opportunities to set up against a lot of major players in the tier:

0 Atk Crobat Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flygon: 144-169 (47.8 - 56.1%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO
vs
0 Atk Crobat Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 152+ Def Flygon: 109-129 (30 - 35.5%) -- 24.4% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 139-165 (38.2 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO/
0 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 114-135 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- 79.9% chance to 3HKO
vs
252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 139-165 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO/
0 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Flygon: 114-135 (37.8 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Golisopod First Impression vs. 248 HP / 152+ Def Flygon: 144-171 (39.6 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
vs
252+ Atk Golisopod First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flygon: 189-223 (62.7 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Incineroar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 152+ Def Flygon: 147-174 (40.4 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
vs
252+ Atk Incineroar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flygon: 193-228 (64.1 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And then, of course, there are all of the electric, fire, and steel types you scare out or into a secretly-non-ideal play because they don't know your set, as per this replay. The loss of power makes it slightly worse than standard (LO) DD Flygon against bulkier toxic users (Regi, Steelix), but the added bulk makes it easier to bring back into play with Wish support. It's really the lack of coverage for opposing Flygon that makes this set worse overall than standard DD Flygon, IMO, but, hey, set versatility makes every set better.

Some other replays:
Flygon eats a +2 Drapion Knock-off to set up a sweep
Flygon stalls out Crobat and Darm to save a win I almost threw by forgetting I mucked with my Tsareena spread
I almost lose by getting greedy after Flygon checks Togekiss and Scarf Heracross

A couple of other techs I've been having fun with:

After theory-monning about it in the VR, I've really enjoyed Bulky Tsareena, which only improves with the loss of Volc/Coba/Darm:
Tsareena (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 244 HP / 104 Atk / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Rapid Spin
- Synthesis
- Power Whip

You can see it put in work in some of the above replays. Originally ran 124 Spe to get the drop on the standard Milotic sets, then creeped to 128 to be faster than Goon at +1, and then pushed it up to 160 Spe to beat base 100s at +1. 104 Atk at Adamant OHKOs 252 HP/0 Def Rhyperior (or standard Milotic after rocks and one turn of leftovers recovery), which felt like a reasonable benchmark As long as your team can handle the loss of coverage, the longevity is a huge boon in more reliably handling Milo and Suicune, and the added bulk makes it a much more reliable emergency check to Shark and the tier's electric types that aren't Toxtricity -- so long as you remember not to waste a turn spinning on them ;_;

Finally, y'all should be running 204 Spe Golisopod to better handle uninvested Umbreon. Between Protect and Foul Play, standard Pod sets have a shockingly hard time against Umbreon. Being able to always beat it with Leech Life is godsend.
 
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