OU Ninjask Pass

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Hello, I'm Shaun. Been playing ADV OU for less than a month now. I always experiment with wacky ideas in the games that I play, and in the case of ADV, Ninjask caught my eye. However, when I browsed through the Internet, I found almost no material on Ninjask-based teams in ADV. And, with the One Boost Passer Clause in place on Showdown, several Ninjask set combinations on Smogon's RS Dex were illegal. So I'm here to share my thoughts on what mons/moves a team utilizing Ninjask should play.
However, please bear in mind, that I'm fairly inexperienced and my total number of ADV OU games is slightly above 200. So, if there are any mistakes in my thought process/ideas, please do point them out. Also, to anyone and everyone reading this thread, I would love to hear what you think about how Ninjask should be built, or how my ideas can be improved.


Firstly, a quick look at what Ninjask can do: It is THE FASTEST mon in ADV, with an astounding base speed of 160. With a Jolly Nature and Max Speed EVs, a Ninjask peaks at 460 Speed in battle, it almost always moves first. Furthermore, it has access to the Speed Boost ability, which raises its Speed by 1 Stage at the end of each full turn on the field. Also, it has access to the move Baton Pass. Considering the One Boost Passer Clause, this can have 2 implications:
1.) Ninjask can be used to Substitute and survive on the field for multiple turns, and then Baton Pass ONLY the boosted Speed stat onto a slow sweeper, or
2.) Ninjask itself can be used as a "Fast Physical Sweeper" holding Choice Band.

Both of these have their own merits and flaws, but I haven't seriously considered Option Number 2, mainly because of Ninjask's abysmal typing, and the awkwardness that can come with being locked into a single STAB move that is resisted by a lot of common types. So, I'll be mainly talking about No. 1 in this thread, but if anyone is willing to experiment with Sweeper CBJask, please do.

This is the Ninjask set I'm currently running:

Ninjask @ Leftovers
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Baton Pass
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Aerial Ace

The set-up plan is to keep clicking Substitute. We move first, and our sub is the only thing hit by the damaging move, making it fade. When we are given free turns, then only we try to damage the opposing mon. Once we have finished our setup, we Baton Pass the stacked speed onto our Sweeper. Also, if we are given a free turn when we have finished our setup, we get to Baton Pass behind the substitute, making our road to victory even more stable. We run two damaging moves for chipping at our opponent, and possibly even OHKO-ing mons like Breloom and Heracross. The Max Atk investment is to capitalize on this.
The Max Speed investment and Jolly nature are there to make Ninjask faster and outspeed opposing Adamant Ninjask.


Now that we have more-or-less established that Ninjask is going to be a setup into our win-con, the next step should be to decide which sweeper Ninjask is going to pass the Speed onto. Smogon Dex recommends either Metagross or Marowak. Metagross, however, is fairly fast AND bulky on its own, and we can easily run AgilityGross if we want an even faster build. It does not need the extra speed boost from Ninjask. Also, Speed-boosted CBGross being locked into a single resisted move can ALSO hurt, as we don't want to switch out. In this scenario, we have most likely put down our Ninjask to very low health by using Substitute, so setting up again is impossible. On the other hand, not only is Marowak considerably slower and could use the speed buff BUT it also has access to a Species-exclusive item, the Thick Club. Effectively a thousandfold better Choice Band, the Thick Club DOUBLES a Marowak's Attack WITHOUT locking it into a single move. The cherry on the cake is Marowak's "Rock Head" ability that prevents it from receiving ANY recoil damage, effectively allowing it to even OHKO mons with a neutrally-damaging Double-Edge without taking any damage back.

This is the "All-Out Attacker" Marowak set that Smogon Dex recommends:

Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bonemerang / Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Hidden Power Rock
- Double-Edge
- Focus Punch / Sing

The Combination of Ground, Rock and Normal-type damaging moves ensures that we hit every type for neutral, if not super effective, damage.
The EV spreads are perfectly suited for this team and are pretty self-explanatory. We are building Marowak as a Physical sweeper that can tank some blows when it switches in. No investment is made in Speed as Ninjask will be the one stacking up the speed.

Speaking of Speed, a 0 Speed EV Marowak with +4 Speed (378) can outspeed all the faster threats of the tier (namely Zapdos, Starmie, MixMence, faster Tyranitar builds, etc.), barring Jolteon and Aerodactyl. Marowak needs a +5 Speed boost (441) to outspeed the standard builds of the aforementioned two mons. This means that in a scenario where you need to deal with an Aerodactyl using Marowak, a Ninjask needs to be able to stay on the field for 5 whole turns and then Baton Pass. Each Substitute takes 25% of the total HP, and LO recovers 6% of the total HP at the end of each turn. Simple math dictates that unless the LO recovery is hindered, each substitute should take 19% of health to create. Assuming that we were not hit by any priority moves, this allows for Substituting 5 times, and then Baton Passing. However, if LO recovery is indeed hindered/negated (such as by Sand), we will be unable to stack up to anything more than +3 Speed, which will be insufficient for outspeeding. In case we take damage, the scenario may even be worse.

This exposes the fatal flaws of this build: Ninjask is unable to set up against Phazers or in Sand, and if somehow its Leftovers are removed by Knock Off/ Trick/ Thief, it falls flat on its face. Furthermore, it is inherently weak against anything that can use damaging priority moves. Most notably, its fellow UUBL mon Arcanine hard-counters it, thanks to its typing and access to Extreme Speed. Also, the opponent's bulky setup mons (notably Suicune) may wall you while setting up in front of Ninjask's face and start sweeping you instead.
(Note: Breloom, despite having access to the priority move Mach Punch, is OHKO-ed by Ninjask's Aerial Ace. Celebi usually gets 2HKO-ed by HP Bug if it does not heal/CM setup)

Therefore, we must build a Jaskwak team in such a way that:
1.) It can effectively scout the opponent's team before starting to reliably set up
2.) It can check Tyranitar and Arcanine while removing Sand
3.) It can chip away at the opposing Pokemon to bring them into Marowak's OHKO range (~65%)
4.) It can bait and remove the opponent's walls that Marowak is going to have trouble OHKO-ing (notably Swampert, Suicune, Lax, etc.)

From (1) and (3), we can conclude that we need mon(s) in our team that can phaze, and inflict burn/poison while also setting spikes.
From (4), we conclude that we need: mons that can go boom on opposing walls or trappers.

In (1) and (3), nothing fits the bill better than Skarmory, which can do all 3 of these. Another possible combination that I like is Smeargle + Jolteon, but it may not be feasible due to the limited team space of a JaskWak Team.
In (4), mons like Metagross (maybe CBgross?), Lax (CurseLax is better on this team imo), and Gengar come to mind for having access to explosion. For trapping, Dugtrio and Magnemite are the more obvious choices, but it could be interesting to experiment with stuff like Perish Song Bi/Gar in this team. Magnemite is the preferred option as it removes Skarm.

And as for (2), welcome to the stage: Kingdra
Widely considered as the "best" Rain Sweeper, Kingdra's Swift Swim ability allows it to reach a monstrous speeds in rain. Paired with an really good SpA Stat, Max EV investment in SpA, and also a Modest nature, it is an amazing addition to this team. It allows us to OHKO Tyanitar and Arcanine with Hydro Pump, remove sand and also function as a mid-game cleaner for us to go into Ninjask. Interestingly, since we do have access to Rain on this team, Utility Gengar can actually run Thunder instead of Thunderbolt.

In case we are running only 1 Bait/Trapper mon, we can still afford to run a Glue mon. To be fair, there is a large variety of Pokemon that can be used here. Jolteon with its Volt Absorb, Vaporeon with Water Absorb, possibly a SubSeed mon, and of course, Swampert. But usually we may not have the team space to do so.

Anyways, please let me know your thoughts, because I'm not sure whether this team idea has potential to be good with the One Boost Passer Clause in place. In the end, this is still a theorycrafted idea that I have been attempting to test out with shittily put together teams. I would really appreciate any constructive criticism.
 
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I think you've misinterpreted the BP clause. Only one source of boosts is to be passed (in this case speed from speed boost), but you can have as many BP users as you like.
 
I think you've misinterpreted the BP clause. Only one source of boosts is to be passed (in this case speed from speed boost), but you can have as many BP users as you like.
I didn't say anywhere that you couldn't have multiple BP users. I fail to realize why you figured that I had misinterpreted the BP Clause.
 

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Ninjask teams, in recent times, have been in flux because of successive bans that have restricted its viability (for good reason). The latest Ninjask team that is publicly posted is here, but even this is written before the Soundproof ban, though it has some ideas that you might want to consider.

Compared to most other posts made by beginners, you make a couple of interesting suggestions. I'm not able to say what is right, but I can lay out some challenges of making Ninjask teams.

1.) It can effectively scout the opponent's team before starting to reliably set up
I think you will find that having a backbone to scout in ADV tends to cost at least 3 mons (like Skarmory, Blissey, Swampert), and you need something additional for opposing Skarmory (Magneton, some other intelligent lure, or some way to divide the matchup) that allows Ninjask to shine. So its going to be difficult to use fancy Jolteons or Vaporeons. Maybe you'll figure something out.

2.) It can check Tyranitar and Arcanine while removing Sand
Sand can be partially mitigated by running Protect on Ninjask to get the extra boost. But if you want to use Kingdra to remove sand, you might want to consider how you can remove Tyranitar for good. Rain teams typically use Dugtrio (search for the Rain guide in this forum for more info), but my guess is that you probably waste a slot on a Ninjask team using Dugtrio because it makes Marowak's strong Earthquake redundant. Even before all this though, note that adding Kingdra just for the sake of Rain is inefficient. If there is no way to break the opponent's special walls for Kingdra, it tends to be unreliable.

Also, Arcanine is only a Pokemon seen at low ladder ratings. Realistically, you won't encounter Arcanine if your team is good enough.

3.) It can chip away at the opposing Pokemon to bring them into Marowak's OHKO range (~65%)
The typical Ninjask team uses Swords Dance Marowak, dropping Focus Punch, which is pretty much only for hitting Skarmory, and uses Magneton to remove Skarmory instead. If you want to use Focus Punch, you'd probably want some way to get Skarmory really low since you lose your boosts after Roar. Not to mention, if Skarmory uses Protect while you attempt to Focus Punch, your opponent might just take the opportunity to use Toxic to ruin your sweep knowing that you go last. And Sing is unreliable for something you're going to try to use two Pokemon in tandem to sweep. It's too high risk for too much commitment.

My take is that since the soundproof ban, Ninjask teams' best way to continue the chain is to go full RNG (evasion+swagger) because it's basically impossible to cover all common phazers. This may be a teambuilding exercise that stretches the limits of your imagination...

...but for heaven's sake, I strongly encourage you to drop these strategies that otherwise have no educational value to anyone trying to learn the metagame properly and stick to learning the common styles as laid out in the sample teams thread.
 
I didn't say anywhere that you couldn't have multiple BP users. I fail to realize why you figured that I had misinterpreted the BP Clause.
That would be your use of "one boost passer clause" early in your post, implying only one mon can pass boosts, rather than only one being able to create them.
 
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I kinda think the answer to how to use Ninjask is to use it as a defensive pivot instead of an all or nothing Baton Passer. You could in theory use a spread with 24 speed to outspeed Starmie and dump the rest into HP and Sp.D and then use it to switch into Pokémon like Celebi and bulky waters and then threaten them out with Toxic or an amount of damage that would leave them susceptible to getting bowled over by your other teammates. With Protect and baton pass Ninjask has plenty of tools to glean information about the opponents team, set up mag or dug traps, and pass +1 speed to teammates not necessarily to sweep but to make them just that little bit more threatening. Bug/Flying may famously be one of the worst typings but with a 4x fighting resistance, earthquake immunity, and a neutrality to water I feel like Ninjasks ability to pivot in and Baton Pass out to an offensive teammate could be very usable. No idea how good it would actually be, but I feel like if you were gonna try to use Ninjask that is how you'd do it.
 
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