Metagame Nature Swap

what do you think of my mixed Archeops?
Archeops @ Power Herb
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Acrobatics
- Meteor Beam
- Dragon Pulse
- Stone Edge
 


https://pokepast.es/4cdcac645d954ec5

An offensive team. Has problems with stuff like speedy Stakataka, because its faster. Not sure what I can do about that. I guess scarf instead of banded Wishi would outspeed it, but I prefere the banded flip turn instead of a too specific counter.
For starters I'd replace u-turn on wishiwashi w/ endeavour or iron tail. I havn't seen any water absorb mons running around so there isn't a need for u-turn. Same thing w/ kyruem, I slap earth power on instead of dragon pulse.

I've been using banded azu which really helps with speed control v staka/regis/rain. Aqua jet is really all you need to clean through a lot of stuff, though you want a spike or rocks down to break stashes/sturdy.
Big Chonker (Azumarill) @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Liquidation
- Knock Off
- Play Rough
Also, as a general thing, I don't think you need 2 scarfers. This meta is either slowish or super fast without a ton in between. I've been running specs magearna and it outspeeds a lot. If anything either lando or heatran would probably be best so sub out.
 
oh ye that team is quite outdated already. I swapped magerna for porygon2 to pivot with teleport. that boy is incredibly bulky. performs well vs stuff like speedy aggron etc.. added pikachu for double priority with fake out and extreme speed, which is nice. dragonite is more offensive now and same is true for heatran. wishi is scarfed now. its just so good to outspeed stuff like shuckle and friends. i still prefere uturn for stuff like random grass types and there were actually some absorbs like volcanion and vaporeon. endeavour sounds cool, might give that a try. i also added earth power on kyurem, but for ice beam. i like dragon puls to hit stuff like random subs or mons that would heal off the first draco and my next one would be no threat anymore.

https://pokepast.es/a880798bbfc5acc1

Spectrier is really trouble some tho. it just subs and i cant do anything about it. there some mons that need specific counters. and then you suddenly look at your team ending up as stall.



EDIT: Updated the team again. Dragonite was cool. I liked the combo of heavy duty boots + multiscale on a defoger. also defog makes hurricane and fireblast more accurate. and ofc the roost multiscale combo. however, the mon is still too rng dependent. backstabs me waaay too often. i added spdef kartana instead to defog. its not rng dependent and my heatran is a nice combo with flash fire. also has knock off utility, is immune to t spikes and takes half dmg from rocks, so it can use lefties instead. can also be a little of a bulky offensive threat with its atk and beast boost. finally i swapped kyurem for dragabult to burst spectrier down through sub with infiltrator. i would have stayed with kyurem, but spectrier is just too annoying. Tho Dragapult is also nice on its own. The advantage to hit through screens or other random subs and its different movepool means that it is not necessarily worse than the faster and bulkier kyurem.

https://pokepast.es/9331b9bcf9c6ac96

Now I feel like the team is quite decent. I guess i can make kartana 0 speed ivs vs trick room teams.
 
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Why not use dig for coverage? You've got sash to live the first attack, and dig will get you +2 speed. I would think there's too many bulky steel/rocks to get a sweep with bug/flying coverage.
Well, as Fry em up would say about many a pvzh deck- what would i take out?


if i get rid of swords dance, it wouldn't have the power that would make this set worth running such a fragile mon. and see, the sash is there to allow a turn to swords dance anyway. i can't use sash twice, so how do i get the atk buff? and that assumes i replace protect as speed boost stall. but i cant drop the other attacking moves either- without acrobatics i lose a ton of power, and without leech life i go down to ANY attacking priority move- which in a meta full of mons that trade bulk for speed is really common- azumarill's are everywhere you know.
so again- what do i take out? and why not have something else for ground coverage- it not like earthquake isn't learned buy a ton of pokemon and better than dig in every way.
 
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oh ye that team is quite outdated already. I swapped magerna for porygon2 to pivot with teleport. that boy is incredibly bulky. performs well vs stuff like speedy aggron etc.. added pikachu for double priority with fake out and extreme speed, which is nice. dragonite is more offensive now and same is true for heatran. wishi is scarfed now. its just so good to outspeed stuff like shuckle and friends. i still prefere uturn for stuff like random grass types and there were actually some absorbs like volcanion and vaporeon. endeavour sounds cool, might give that a try. i also added earth power on kyurem, but for ice beam. i like dragon puls to hit stuff like random subs or mons that would heal off the first draco and my next one would be no threat anymore.

https://pokepast.es/a880798bbfc5acc1

Spectrier is really trouble some tho. it just subs and i cant do anything about it. there some mons that need specific counters. and then you suddenly look at your team ending up as stall.



EDIT: Updated the team again. Dragonite was cool. I liked the combo of heavy duty boots + multiscale on a defoger. also defog makes hurricane and fireblast more accurate. and ofc the roost multiscale combo. however, the mon is still too rng dependent. backstabs me waaay too often. i added spdef kartana instead to defog. its not rng dependent and my heatran is a nice combo with flash fire. also has knock off utility, is immune to t spikes and takes half dmg from rocks, so it can use lefties instead. can also be a little of a bulky offensive threat with its atk and beast boost. finally i swapped kyurem for dragabult to burst spectrier down through sub with infiltrator. i would have stayed with kyurem, but spectrier is just too annoying. Tho Dragapult is also nice on its own. The advantage to hit through screens or other random subs and its different movepool means that it is not necessarily worse than the faster and bulkier kyurem.

https://pokepast.es/9331b9bcf9c6ac96

Now I feel like the team is quite decent. I guess i can make kartana 0 speed ivs vs trick room teams.
The team certainly is a little different, but as a heads up from someone that uses Spectrier, it is at 145 speed so pult can't threaten it without a scarf. Not sure what spread it was, but pretty sure it was +SpD/ -Attk, Kartana w/ calm mind, giga drain, synthesis, defog blanked my CM Spectrier, not sure if it would do the same to NP Spectrier. In terms of offensive counters I've seen a few offensive hydreigons running around, some had specs some had LO. Been trying to get a Ttar set to work, which isn't an issue v Spectrier, but it is godawful against a lot of the rest of the meta. The more i think about it is quite difficult to defend against.

Replacing Heatran with Garchomp might also be worth looking into. Gives you an electric immunity and can generally eat up a hit from the hugely offensive rock/ground/steel types. Also is guarenteed to 1v1 ninjask which can be real annoying as long as draco hits.

Rough Chonker (Garchomp) @ Leftovers
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Draco Meteor
- Toxic
- Earth Power
 
i have only faced spectriers that swapped speed with def tho with max hp, calm mind and sub. thats why dragapult is modest specs. if it is not defensive then my wishi will probably one shot it or porygon will hard wall it without the problem of spectriers sub living 3 or 4 burned foul plays.

in terms of electro immunity, i have pikachu lightning rod. eventhough it needs a hard prediction as it will be one shot otherwise or if you know the oppnent is locked in a choiced electro attack. bulky kartana helps aswell.


EDIT: Another interesting set is lando t defensive bold. gives 2 valuable immunities and can combine the defoger and rocker in one to free up another team slot.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Earth Power
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Defog

maybe paired with clef wish teleport to keep things healthy: https://pokepast.es/e0358430a5e942a1

imo ttar is quite nice with av. is also cool vs all those rain teams.


EDIT2: I like both versions of the team. The main difference is, that porygon is usually more bulky than clefable. tho celfable is nice versus those speedy goodras and to support the other team members. Otherwise kartana + heatran + porygon2 and lando + ttar + celf are both kinda equally decent choices.

tho i guess stuff like magerna draining kiss can still be a huge threat. I could swap clef for spd tangrwoth with leech seed knock off and eq.
 
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I'm surprised nobody is talking about cursola... By running a naive nature you get a 130 base speed and this thing hits like a truck with 145 spA
 
lol build-your-own spectrier?
I mean Spectrier is still allowed in Nature Swap for now. Heck, I don't think they are that comparable. While Cursola does have better coverage, it lacks bulk, Grim Neigh and Nasty Plot for snowball potential.

In the meantime, it's almost March now yet Nature Swap didn't see any more bans besides the obvious ones that I have missed (oops). So I would like your feedback on which Pokemon is considered banworthy. So far these are the Pokemon I'm looking at for now:
  • Stakataka :stakataka:
  • Dracovish :dracovish:
  • Galarian Darmanitan :darmanitan-galar:
  • Pheromosa :pheromosa:
  • Spectrier :spectrier:
  • Magearna :magearna:
Stakataka is definitely the biggest culprit with either Hasty or Lonely Nature for Trick Room teams to wreak havoc with Beast Boost that allowed further snowballing. Dracovish and Galarian Darmanitan boasted huge firepower through either their ability or move that may have demanded too much. Pheromosa and Spectrier were hit by the banhammer in OU, so I don't see that they are any more manageable in Nature Swap. And let me know if you think I miss anything, thanks.
 
Stakataka definitely isnt banworthy due to how popular priority moves are in this format. And the trick room varient is not really stronger than it is in non nature-swap formats due to the defensive pokemon here also being more bulky.

While Spectrier was banned in OU, Spectrier doesnt really profit from Nature Swap possibilities a lot. Also Spectrier in general is a Pokemon that rather profits from a defensive metagame having decent enough bulk to set up a Sub on a lot of Pokemon. However, Nature Swap, as it is right now, is very offensive, barely giving Spectrier a chance to set up a Sub (unless you Swap Spe with Def, which takes away its sweeping potential though). Not banworthy aswell imo.

Pheromosa is the most banworthy out of the ones that were named. Swapping Def with SpA/Att makes it surprisingly bulky while still having huge offensive pressure and sweeping potential with its beast boosts.

So to sum it up:
Not banworthy: Stakataka, Spectrier
No definite opinion: Magearna, Darmanitan, Dracovish
Banworthy: Pheromosa

Id also suggest taking Kartana into consideration simply due to its huge variety of good Sets it can run and therefore its unpredictability.
 
I already made a post about this earlier but I'll sum it up here just to voice my opinion

Most banworthy
:magearna: :pheromosa:
Somewhat banworthy
:dracovish: :spectrier:
Maybe a little broken
:regieleki: :stakataka: :darmanitan-galar: :azumarill: :urshifu:
Could have the potential of being broken or overcentralizing
:kartana: :cinderace: :dragapult: :shuckle:
 
Blacephalon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Trick


I noticed that Blacephalon had quite a bit of physical attack not being used, so I turned that into speed, and now it can sweep teams. Idk if this is the optimal way to design timid blacephalon, but it hits the ultra-tanky tangrowth very hard and can give specs to annoying stall mons in the meta such as tornadus-T. I think this is a really strong option as a fast sweeper, but let me know if you have any suggestions.
Here's a follow-up to the blacephalon set: You can also use scarf rather than specs which allows it to outspeed def to spe aggron/steelix
 
I really do not understand what I am doing, so I kinda made this team so I could help myself understand this meta game.


big chunk (Ferrothorn) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Atk / 248 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed

Rei (Hydreigon) @ Kee Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 156 Def / 252 SpA / 96 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Roost
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor

ow King (Slowking-Galar) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam
- Hex

Amp Expert (Swampert) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Damp
EVs: 220 Atk / 36 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Liquidation
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Darkest Lariat

Volcarona @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Def / 200 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Giga Drain
- Bug Buzz

Tyrone (Tyranitar) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 52 Def / 88 SpA / 172 SpD / 196 Spe
Modest Nature
- Stone Edge
- Taunt
- Thunderbolt
- Dark Pulse
 
Regigigas @ Assault Vest
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 16 HP / 196 Def / 200 SpA / 96 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hyper Beam
- Ancient Power
- Earth Power

Cursola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Perish Body
EVs: 4 HP / 8 Atk / 244 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Poltergeist
- Leech Life
- Liquidation
- Facade

This feels very illegal.
 
Regigigas @ Assault Vest
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 16 HP / 196 Def / 200 SpA / 96 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hyper Beam
- Ancient Power
- Earth Power

Cursola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Perish Body
EVs: 4 HP / 8 Atk / 244 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Poltergeist
- Leech Life
- Liquidation
- Facade

This feels very illegal.
Your Regigigas set has no recovery, and it would benefit better from more HP EVs than spending them on both Def and SpD
 
I'm surprised nobody is talking about cursola... By running a naive nature you get a 130 base speed and this thing hits like a truck with 145 spA
Not only that but if you run an Impish Nature you Will have 145 Def or you can run Bold Nature and have 95 Def and hey 60/145/130 or 60/95/135 bulk wasn't too bad and Keep in mind Cursola has a moves like Will-O-Wisp,Strength Sap,Stealth Rock,Haze,and Night Shade.Perish Body also guaranteed if Cursola get Killed it still do something
 

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