Metagame Nature Swap

The biggest problem is that there aren't any viable ground or fighting types in the meta. meaning it's pretty safe to run. TL;DR, Stakataka should definitely be suspect tested, if not quickbanned.
Mega Garchomp, Rhyperior, Landorus-T, Mega camerupt, Mega Lopunny, Mega Heracross, Lucario and Kommo-o would beg to differ. And no, Stakataka isn't broken. It needing to setup trick room really hinders it's viability so much because there are other mons who uses Ground and Fighting moves as coverages.
 
all of those get outsped and 1-shotted by staka. So no, they are not counters.
Pretty sure Landorus-T with intimidate doesn't get one-shotted. If you're looking for counters that don't get one shotted, look at slow bulky mons like Hippowdon, Suicune or something. What you said is there aren't any viable Ground and Fighting types in the meta, which, in fact, there's plenty.
 
I need advice how do i make this team better?


Magearna @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Aura Sphere
- Energy Ball

wall (Stakataka)
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Lonely Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Rock Slide

Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Endeavor
- Hurricane

Torkoal @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Eruption
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power

Hoopa @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic
- Focus Blast

boi (Kartana) @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Synthesis
- Toxic
- Air Slash
 

anaconja

long day at job
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
all of those get outsped and 1-shotted by staka. So no, they are not counters.
252 Atk Choice Band Stakataka Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp-Mega (Def Unchanged) : 175-207 (48.8 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Stakataka Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-Therian (145 Def) : 93-109 (24.3 - 28.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Stakataka Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heracross-Mega (105 Def): 237-279 (78.4 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Stakataka Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kommo-o (85 Def): 226-267 (77.6 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
u wot

also Stakataka sometimes runs Z-Move so it could be even lower than that
 
Ok so for some reason this gamemode just isn't working properly for me. Maybe there's some weird thing I can't find or haven't read, but I tried swapping Volcanion's speed for it's attack and I somehow ended up with a Timid Volcanion that's slower than it's regular speed stat. I also tried swapping the attack and SpAtk of Tauros and there's a similar issue. With Modest nature it should have 328 SpAtk but it only has around 225 or something. Someone please help? Maybe I did something wrong with the teambuilding but other Pokemon are working fine. https://pastebin.com/JYEgUwz8
 
I had the same issue. Was about address it actually. Try putting the EVs on the reduced stat. They will then carry over to the increased stat.
 
If anyone is interested in building a Sticky Web team, Araquanid is probably the best choice for a setter.


Araquanid @ Focus Sash
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Naive Nature
- Sticky Web
- Waterfall
- Magic Coat
- Reflect

With a new base speed of 132, Araquanid is the second fastest Sticky Web setter after Shuckle. Or course, unlike Shuckle, Araquanid actually has an offensive presence. Waterfall is chosen over Liquidation because Araquanid's newfound speed makes flinches more likely. Magic Coat and Reflect are basically just suicide-lead filler.
 
Hooray for LC! Also guys, I have updated the OP with the bug. For now, we will have to put the EVs in the stat that is to be switched rather than the stat we want to be switched into. Thats until I can ask a coder to fix it. Sorry!
 

Pigeons

pidge pidge
is a Tiering Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
I haven't had too much time to ladder yet, but people are already complaining about Stakataka so I thought I'd share a set that doesn't really care about Stakataka or physical attackers as a whole.


Bewear @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Bold Nature
- Drain Punch
- Toxic
- Rest
- Baby-Doll Eyes / Pain Split / Filler

I present: budget Fur Coat Giratina. In case it wasn't immediately obvious, 120 / 125 physical bulk with an ability that halves damage from contact moves is pretty ridiculous. Having to use Rest for recovery is an obvious downside, but that hardly matters when almost no physical attacker even 4hkos you. Drain Punch helps with that issue, 80 Attack isn't enormous but it's still enough to threaten Stakataka or Steelix. There's not much to say in words about this Pokemon so I'll just leave a list of calcs that illustrate how ridiculous bulky this thing is.

vs Lonely Stakataka
252+ Atk Choice Band Stakataka Gyro Ball (125 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Bewear: 150-177 (33.8 - 39.9%) -- 29.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

vs Lonely Aggron
252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Bewear: 141-167 (31.8 - 37.6%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

vs Adamant Mega Gardevoir
252+ Atk Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Bewear: 164-194 (37 - 43.7%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

vs Hasty Mega Heracross
252 Atk Heracross-Mega Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Bewear: 158-188 (35.6 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

vs Naughty Araquanid
252+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Bewear: 144-170 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 1.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

vs Hasty Mega Mawile
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Bewear: 170-204 (38.3 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

vs Hasty Golem-A
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Bewear: 114-135 (25.7 - 30.4%) -- 1.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

vs Hasty Metagross
252 Atk Choice Band Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Bewear: 126-150 (28.4 - 33.8%) -- 97.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

vs Brave Sceptile
+2 252+ Atk Sceptile Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Bewear in Grassy Terrain: 142-168 (32 - 37.9%) -- 79.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery


These are some calcs against strong sets and sets people posted in this thread. Even stupidly powerful supereffective hits fail to 2hko Bewear which is pretty insane. Anything weaker will be doing next to nothing, so it's easy to see how Bewear can handle the majority of physical attackers. It'd be a bit rash to suspect / quickban something so soon after the ladder went up, but this does seem just a bit ridiculous to me in terms of how difficult to break it is.

On a different note, I brought up the idea of nature reveal in the OM room and thought I'd bring it up here. I think a mechanic similar to donor reveal in Inheritance or typing reveal in Camomons is worth considering for this meta. As it is, there's no way to know what set you're opponent is running on each Pokemon, which results in a lot of 50/50 scenarios that are highly unpleasant in my opinion. This meta's mechanics very easily allow a Pokemon to switch between being a physical attacker and a special one, which means it's incredibly easy for a Pokemon to bypass its checks. While that is partly the premise of the meta, it's also extremely annoying in battles. If my check to Mega Steelix is say, Bold Landorus-T, special sets while almost always successfully lure Landorus-T in. This makes counterplay to any given threat much more difficult considering reliable checks to Pokemon that can be extremely powerful on either end of the spectrum is pretty much impossible. I'd argue the lack of reveal lowers the overall skill required in the meta, since there's no real way to tell what set an opponent is running until it's too late. I don't think a measure like this would be as necessary as it is in Inheritance or Camomons, but I do think it would increase playability a bit.
 
so what do you think of my ninjask?

Ninjask @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leech Life
- Night Slash
- Aerial Ace

focus sash to easily setup and sweep. it can survive by spamming leech life
 
I don't understand how the stats change. For example Torkoal gains 347 of speed max, but it should have 140 of speed, so 416. Why isn't boosted til the max stat?
 
I don't understand how the stats change. For example Torkoal gains 347 of speed max, but it should have 140 of speed, so 416. Why isn't boosted til the max stat?
Its probably the EV bug which can be circumvented if you follow the instructions in the OP.

About Ninjask, I saw this mon last gen but it sadly did nothing, since it has low BP attacks, bad stab, frail, outsped at +1, requires protect and struggled with setting up and getting revenged. IMO the best way to play ninjask this gen might be with a z move nuke to reliably hit hard once


Edit: on the topic of unpredictability- top sets will begin to settle. For the example, special steelix might seem like a cool lure except its slow and frail, it becomes dead weight in a lot of situations- there is a big risk in trying to use a mon like that. There are scarier phys/special threats like togekiss but even still, I think that its relatively balanced along with most mons that can be phys or special. I actually don't have any preference when it comes to showing natures or not, when NS first came out it had natures showing and it was removed, both versions of the game had complexity in different ways. That being said, last gen had a lot less threats to cover
 
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Gryphon827

I COULD BE BANNED!
252 Atk Choice Band Stakataka Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp-Mega (Def Unchanged) : 175-207 (48.8 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Stakataka Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-Therian (145 Def) : 93-109 (24.3 - 28.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Stakataka Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heracross-Mega (105 Def): 237-279 (78.4 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Stakataka Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kommo-o (85 Def): 226-267 (77.6 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I don't think you know how Nature Swap works. Staka would get 211 base attack with a lonely nature, meaning that it would have 252+ atk on a base 211 stat. (And yes, I realize that it isn't the base stat that gets swapped, it's the raw stat, but if you know how to invest your EVs, it ends up being the exact same.)

While you do bring up a good point with Lando-T being an effective counter, I decided to run the same calculations that you did, except with the proper attack stat.
252+ Atk Choice Band Stakataka Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp-Mega: 519-612 (144.9 - 170.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Stakataka Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-Therian: 274-324 (71.7 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Stakataka Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heracross-Mega: 561-661 (185.7 - 218.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Stakataka Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kommo-o: 670-790 (221.8 - 261.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

In other words, Stakataka isn't as weak as you may have made him out to be.
 
I wonder why nobody did this yet in a sand team:

Garchomp-Mega @ Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang

With a base speed stat of 115 and 170 attack with Sand Force, this Garchomp can wreck teams.... except if they have any ice type attack.
 
I dont know whether I'm dumb or not but why is my Mega Abomasnow (132 speed) getting outsped by Mega Mawile and Z-Clang Kommo-o before the boosts
 
I don't think you know how Nature Swap works. Staka would get 211 base attack with a lonely nature, meaning that it would have 252+ atk on a base 211 stat. (And yes, I realize that it isn't the base stat that gets swapped, it's the raw stat, but if you know how to invest your EVs, it ends up being the exact same.)

While you do bring up a good point with Lando-T being an effective counter, I decided to run the same calculations that you did, except with the proper attack stat.
252+ Atk Choice Band Stakataka Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp-Mega: 519-612 (144.9 - 170.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Stakataka Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-Therian: 274-324 (71.7 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Stakataka Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heracross-Mega: 561-661 (185.7 - 218.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Stakataka Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kommo-o: 670-790 (221.8 - 261.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

In other words, Stakataka isn't as weak as you may have made him out to be.
A band set with that Nature would suck imo, bad speed tier and bad typing + not that good Defenses means it just can't find that many opportunity es to come in and not outspeed in most walla really suck
 
EV BUG SHOULD BE FIXED NOW(or at least in 15 mins), switch ya stuff back.



Also, lets talk about Stakataka. Its a very powerful mon, can run Hasty + SR to be a very fast suicide lead, but the set you're much more likely to see will be Lonely Stak with either Trick Room or CB, to nuke through teams while still having some semblance of defensive strength. It can also pair well with Psychic Terrain to buff its Zen Headbutt to dodge priority and KO fighting "checks" like Kommo-o. Its threatening enough that even weaker lure sets like Gentle + Block + Toxic may offer some merit. What do you guys use to deal with this mon? Im especially interested in checks that can fit onto offensive squads.
 
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EV BUG SHOULD BE FIXED NOW(or at least in 15 mins), switch ya stuff back.



Also, lets talk about Stakataka. Its a very powerful mon, can run Hasty + SR to be a very fast suicide lead, but the set you're much more likely to see will be Lonely Stak with either Trick Room or CB, to nuke through teams while still having some semblance of defensive strength. It can also pair well with Psychic Terrain to buff its Zen Headbutt to dodge priority and KO fighting "checks" like Kommo-o. Its threatening enough that even weaker lure sets like Gentle + Block + Toxic may offer some merit. What do you guys use to deal with this mon? Im especially interested in checks that can fit onto offensive squads.
Kartana can force out a majority of Stakatakas because of its access to Fighting moves. Special Kartana can handle it with Vacuum Wave. For physicsl variants, if unboosted, Stakataka won't be able to take out a healthy Kartana, and Sacred Sword gets the job done.

Bulletproof from Kommo-o stops Gyro ball from working and resists Stakataka's Stone Edge.

A Power Trick Shuckle can come in on Stakataka's Trick room, set up and revenge kill it.

Stalling out Stakataka's TR with Protect somewhat helps.

Thats my experience when dealing with Stakataka in this meta.
 
Kartana can force out a majority of Stakatakas because of its access to Fighting moves. Special Kartana can handle it with Vacuum Wave. For physicsl variants, if unboosted, Stakataka won't be able to take out a healthy Kartana, and Sacred Sword gets the job done.

Bulletproof from Kommo-o stops Gyro ball from working and resists Stakataka's Stone Edge.

A Power Trick Shuckle can come in on Stakataka's Trick room, set up and revenge kill it.

Stalling out Stakataka's TR with Protect somewhat helps.

Thats my experience when dealing with Stakataka in this meta.
The problems I see with it are:

252+ Atk Choice Band Stakataka Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 232-273 (89.2 - 105%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Stakataka Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Shuckle: 248-294 (101.6 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Stakataka Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kommo-o in Psychic Terrain: 346-408 (118.9 - 140.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Stakataka Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kommo-o: 345-406 (118.5 - 139.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

All of its offensive checks cant really switch in and scouting around the 211 Atk Gyro Ball is very hard. Psychic Terrain Staka makes it even scarier due to the priority block and removing its sturdiest offensive check in Kommo-o.
I think the thing keeping Staka alright at the moment is its always going to take a hit to set up TR, and its ohkod by stray earthquakes or fighting coverage now. But there's often where I use a scarf mon and basically have to think- if I pick a move that does not threaten Stakataka coming in afterwards, Staka will be killing my team. Makes me wanna run weird stuff like bulky air balloon Magnezone
 
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