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Resource National Dex UU Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Arishem
- Start date
After slight discussion with myself we have decided to add Harambe to the Viability Rankings as a form of respect.
Noted.
Trashuny
Banned deucer.
I think this viability rankings is great, but I just have a few improvements I'd want to see.
Amoonguss to A+
Amoonguss does many valuable things in one poke (water resistance, electric resistance, fighting resistance, ground check) in the teambuilder, and in the game it's even better. The only common poke that can switch in and not fear a Spore or Sludge Bomb is Amoonguss itself. Using Spore is often very easy, and Mega Sableye does not even wall this poke very well. You can just use Sludge Bomb against it until it poisons, and that makes stealth rock easier to get up. You can spore other stall pokes like Skarmory or Slowking-Galar. Both physically defensive with rocky helmet and specially defensive are great. I've seen players use Assault Vest too. HDB is a good option on specially defensive to be comfortable against Spikes. You do need a dark type with Amoonguss, Imo, because Amoonguss hates Future Sight and Hoopa-Unbound, but Amoonguss is so good.
Buzzwole to A-
Buzzwole is great on the defense side, but on the offense side Imo it is not A rank, not to mention it has a bad special defense that is easy to exploit with Future Sight or a timely switch to a poke like Hoopa-Unbound. I do think this tier does not have many good ground type counters, and Buzzwole is one of them, but right now Mega Altaria and Aegislash are top tier pokes that Buzzwole needs coverage for, and it does not have enough moves, and needs to heal itself off during the game with Roost.
Nidoking to A- or B+
(I made a post about it here https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-uu-metagame-discussion-bans-248.3660920/page-12)
Nidoking is a great wallbreaker that also is an electric immunity, Mega Altaria check, possible Stealth Rock user. It has a better defensive typing than Hoopa-Unbound and is not as weak to pursuit. It is also good against some stall teams, usually ones with Slowbro-Galar. In the finals of the NDUU tournament, I played a game where Nidoking should have gotten 6 kills (but unfortunately I made a very bad play, afraid of Shadow Sneak Aegislash which was not even a big threat to me) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1337503982-d9qh7sbj9yc43spcq9zcg0hthyiceg2pw
Starmie to B or B-
I really have not seen Starmie outside of 1 ladder game. I think Starmie is just not bulky enough, and lets in dark types too easily. Slowking provides much more bulk, Regenerator, Future Sight and Teleport, whereas Starmie is just a Rapid Spinner. It can get off good Rapid Spins against defensive teams with Stealth Rock Hippowdon, or something similar, but I would rather use Slowking and another hazard remover than Starmie.
Bisharp to B+ or B
Yes, Bisharp has to wait until the late game until it becomes a threat to teams with Skarmory, Z-Urshifu, Infernape, Melmetal and other checks, but I think Bisharp is good in many matchups, and can still sweep even if it fights a poke that checks it in the beginning of the game. Spikes is a great partner for Bisharp, as they chip away at its checks and Bisharp can come in and get a Defiant boost from Defog. It also is a huge threat to offensive teams. It has some checks, but I've played games where Bisharp has 1v5ed and won me the game. It just should not be ranked the same as Alolan Raichu, haha.
Chesnaught to C
(I wrote about it here https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-uu-metagame-discussion-bans-248.3660920/page-12)
Chesnaught is a good Amoonguss counter (unless Toxic, which is a waste of a move), Spike user, and switch in to ground and dark types. Also, on Hyper Offense teams, Chesnaught can run Belly Drum too, even if it has a hard time deciding its coverage.
Porygon2 to C
(I also wrote about it here https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-uu-metagame-discussion-bans-248.3660920/page-12)
Good special defensive wall with teleport. Has to recover more than I would want, but it is still worthy of being on the rankings.
Rotom-Mow to C
(I again wrote about it here https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-uu-metagame-discussion-bans-248.3660920/page-12)
Good defogger and great Volt Switcher. Good ground type switch in. Better switchin to Zeraora than the other Rotom forms. Way better vs stall than Rotom-Wash, especially stall teams with Gastrodon.
Edit, after thinking:
Mega Sableye to A+:
Stall is so common in the metagame right now, and Mega Sableye is in my opinion the best mega on it. On stall or balance, Sableye-Mega can still be used to keep hazards off the field, because many hazard setters don't keep them up vs Mega Sableye well at all. It is also a good wall, Knock Off user, and general annoying poke to fight. Dark types are very good right now for a few reasons, and Sableye can take Future Sights easily. You think your team is not that weak to stall, but after Mega Sableye knocks off your HDB and you're sitting on top of spikes, you can not have enough time to break down stall. Burn & Knock off are both very good together, and Foul Play destroys some threatening pokes like Hoopa-Unbound and setup sweepers. I find its bulk is just right for what it wants to wall. Mega Sableye is a huge annoyance, and is much better than other pokes in A.
Amoonguss to A+
Amoonguss does many valuable things in one poke (water resistance, electric resistance, fighting resistance, ground check) in the teambuilder, and in the game it's even better. The only common poke that can switch in and not fear a Spore or Sludge Bomb is Amoonguss itself. Using Spore is often very easy, and Mega Sableye does not even wall this poke very well. You can just use Sludge Bomb against it until it poisons, and that makes stealth rock easier to get up. You can spore other stall pokes like Skarmory or Slowking-Galar. Both physically defensive with rocky helmet and specially defensive are great. I've seen players use Assault Vest too. HDB is a good option on specially defensive to be comfortable against Spikes. You do need a dark type with Amoonguss, Imo, because Amoonguss hates Future Sight and Hoopa-Unbound, but Amoonguss is so good.
Buzzwole to A-
Buzzwole is great on the defense side, but on the offense side Imo it is not A rank, not to mention it has a bad special defense that is easy to exploit with Future Sight or a timely switch to a poke like Hoopa-Unbound. I do think this tier does not have many good ground type counters, and Buzzwole is one of them, but right now Mega Altaria and Aegislash are top tier pokes that Buzzwole needs coverage for, and it does not have enough moves, and needs to heal itself off during the game with Roost.
Nidoking to A- or B+
(I made a post about it here https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-uu-metagame-discussion-bans-248.3660920/page-12)
Nidoking is a great wallbreaker that also is an electric immunity, Mega Altaria check, possible Stealth Rock user. It has a better defensive typing than Hoopa-Unbound and is not as weak to pursuit. It is also good against some stall teams, usually ones with Slowbro-Galar. In the finals of the NDUU tournament, I played a game where Nidoking should have gotten 6 kills (but unfortunately I made a very bad play, afraid of Shadow Sneak Aegislash which was not even a big threat to me) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1337503982-d9qh7sbj9yc43spcq9zcg0hthyiceg2pw
Starmie to B or B-
I really have not seen Starmie outside of 1 ladder game. I think Starmie is just not bulky enough, and lets in dark types too easily. Slowking provides much more bulk, Regenerator, Future Sight and Teleport, whereas Starmie is just a Rapid Spinner. It can get off good Rapid Spins against defensive teams with Stealth Rock Hippowdon, or something similar, but I would rather use Slowking and another hazard remover than Starmie.
Bisharp to B+ or B
Yes, Bisharp has to wait until the late game until it becomes a threat to teams with Skarmory, Z-Urshifu, Infernape, Melmetal and other checks, but I think Bisharp is good in many matchups, and can still sweep even if it fights a poke that checks it in the beginning of the game. Spikes is a great partner for Bisharp, as they chip away at its checks and Bisharp can come in and get a Defiant boost from Defog. It also is a huge threat to offensive teams. It has some checks, but I've played games where Bisharp has 1v5ed and won me the game. It just should not be ranked the same as Alolan Raichu, haha.
Chesnaught to C
(I wrote about it here https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-uu-metagame-discussion-bans-248.3660920/page-12)
Chesnaught is a good Amoonguss counter (unless Toxic, which is a waste of a move), Spike user, and switch in to ground and dark types. Also, on Hyper Offense teams, Chesnaught can run Belly Drum too, even if it has a hard time deciding its coverage.
Porygon2 to C
(I also wrote about it here https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-uu-metagame-discussion-bans-248.3660920/page-12)
Good special defensive wall with teleport. Has to recover more than I would want, but it is still worthy of being on the rankings.
Rotom-Mow to C
(I again wrote about it here https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-uu-metagame-discussion-bans-248.3660920/page-12)
Good defogger and great Volt Switcher. Good ground type switch in. Better switchin to Zeraora than the other Rotom forms. Way better vs stall than Rotom-Wash, especially stall teams with Gastrodon.
Edit, after thinking:
Mega Sableye to A+:
Stall is so common in the metagame right now, and Mega Sableye is in my opinion the best mega on it. On stall or balance, Sableye-Mega can still be used to keep hazards off the field, because many hazard setters don't keep them up vs Mega Sableye well at all. It is also a good wall, Knock Off user, and general annoying poke to fight. Dark types are very good right now for a few reasons, and Sableye can take Future Sights easily. You think your team is not that weak to stall, but after Mega Sableye knocks off your HDB and you're sitting on top of spikes, you can not have enough time to break down stall. Burn & Knock off are both very good together, and Foul Play destroys some threatening pokes like Hoopa-Unbound and setup sweepers. I find its bulk is just right for what it wants to wall. Mega Sableye is a huge annoyance, and is much better than other pokes in A.
Last edited:
Hi I’d like to nominate Vanilluxe to A-
I believe Vanilluxe has an incredible niche in this tier as a stall breaker / balance breaker. Vanilluxe has a wonderful 110 base special attack along with an amazing ability that grants 100% accurate blizzards and 6% chip onto your opponent at the end of the round. If you are wondering just how strong the cone is, lemme show you.
Looking at this sample stall made by Chazm https://pokepast.es/190d4e03a6ccb0f9
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowking-Galar: 243-286 (61.6 - 72.5%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 210-247 (53.2 - 62.6%) -
As you can see, there isn’t much that can switch into my friend Vaniluxe. Currently, our stalls are not prepared for it whatsoever. The best counterplay would be spdef rotom heat because, even the steel types get cooked by HP fire. Here is my favorite set for Vanilluxe.
https://pokepast.es/6f64c9c9ed3f1356
Well thank you for reading ! I hope my man Vanilluxe can finallly get the respect it deserves.
I believe Vanilluxe has an incredible niche in this tier as a stall breaker / balance breaker. Vanilluxe has a wonderful 110 base special attack along with an amazing ability that grants 100% accurate blizzards and 6% chip onto your opponent at the end of the round. If you are wondering just how strong the cone is, lemme show you.
Looking at this sample stall made by Chazm https://pokepast.es/190d4e03a6ccb0f9
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowking-Galar: 243-286 (61.6 - 72.5%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 210-247 (53.2 - 62.6%) -
As you can see, there isn’t much that can switch into my friend Vaniluxe. Currently, our stalls are not prepared for it whatsoever. The best counterplay would be spdef rotom heat because, even the steel types get cooked by HP fire. Here is my favorite set for Vanilluxe.
https://pokepast.es/6f64c9c9ed3f1356
Well thank you for reading ! I hope my man Vanilluxe can finallly get the respect it deserves.
Nowno
la frappe du quartier est approuvé ✅
I feel like your calcs are weird, since the usage of Glowking mostly have a bit of spdef and run AV.
Though that's true for Sylveon, even if there are a lot of maxspdef which aren't 2hkoed.
Also, Celesteela is not always 2hkoed, it's very risky to use Vanilluxe against it, Alolan-Muk can easily tank and pursuit trap, and I think it's really limited to beat more offensive team. I wouldn't make it that high, but maybe if stall become really that strong with Hoopa banned, it could be really viable.
| Spreads |
| Modest:252/0/0/252/4/0 17.728% |
| Calm:252/0/0/176/80/0 12.224% |
| Calm:252/0/0/4/252/0 7.089% |
| Modest:236/0/16/160/96/0 5.696% |
| Modest:236/0/16/160/92/4 4.938% |
| Modest:252/0/16/176/64/0 4.478% |
Items |
| Assault Vest 83.351% |
| Black Sludge 6.693% |
| Modest:252/0/0/252/4/0 17.728% |
| Calm:252/0/0/176/80/0 12.224% |
| Calm:252/0/0/4/252/0 7.089% |
| Modest:236/0/16/160/96/0 5.696% |
| Modest:236/0/16/160/92/4 4.938% |
| Modest:252/0/16/176/64/0 4.478% |
Items |
| Assault Vest 83.351% |
| Black Sludge 6.693% |
Though that's true for Sylveon, even if there are a lot of maxspdef which aren't 2hkoed.
Also, Celesteela is not always 2hkoed, it's very risky to use Vanilluxe against it, Alolan-Muk can easily tank and pursuit trap, and I think it's really limited to beat more offensive team. I wouldn't make it that high, but maybe if stall become really that strong with Hoopa banned, it could be really viable.
NoHi I’d like to nominate Vanilluxe to A-
I believe Vanilluxe has an incredible niche in this tier as a stall breaker / balance breaker. Vanilluxe has a wonderful 110 base special attack along with an amazing ability that grants 100% accurate blizzards and 6% chip onto your opponent at the end of the round. If you are wondering just how strong the come is, lemme show you.
Looking at this sample stall made by Chazm https://pokepast.es/190d4e03a6ccb0f9
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowking-Galar: 243-286 (61.6 - 72.5%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 210-247 (53.2 - 62.6%) -
As you can see, there isn’t much that can switch into my friend Vaniluxe. Currently, our stalls are not prepared for it whatsoever. The best counterplay would be spdef rotom heat because, even the steel types get cooked by HP fire. Here is my favorite set for Vanilluxe.
https://pokepast.es/6f64c9c9ed3f1356
Well thank you for reading ! I hope my man Vanilluxe can finallly get the respect it deserves.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 98-116 (30.2 - 35.8%) -- 37.5% chance to 3HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Vanilluxe: 348-410 (100.5 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 244 SpD Melmetal: 136-161 (33 - 39.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Vanilluxe: 640-756 (184.9 - 218.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Vanilluxe: 674-794 (194.7 - 229.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Vanilluxe: 474-560 (136.9 - 161.8%) -- guaranteed OHK
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Vanilluxe: 322-382 (93 - 110.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Vanilluxe: 580-686 (167.6 - 198.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Just a few since i'm lazy :p
Not to mention that its so slow that it doesn't get chances to switch in, even against stall since its naturally checked hard, and there is a reason thats its not A- but UR. Yes it has power, great power, but if it cannot find places to switch in, than its useless.
I don’t find this post quite useful as for deciding Vaniluxes usefulness. Again, I labeled him as a breaker not as anti offense. Of course fighting types that are faster are gonna be able to Ohko an ice type pokemon. Every single pokemon has the weakness of being slower and weaker to another pokemon. Hoopa is ohkoed by terrakion and keldeo as well, should it also be listed as Unranked? We should focus on its ability to destroy before it gets destroyed. This is why I prefer it on balance, you can back up and support vaniluxe with glue such as amoongus or hippowdon. I appreciate the thoughts you posted but I believe that they are not useful for depicting Vanilluxes relevance.
I used the spreads that were in the sample team.
This looks at a singular team that arguably has worse matchups to other, more viable Pokemon such as Primarina, Specs Keldeo or NP Infernape, and doesn't include potential other stall structures that would be able to take this on, such as Melmetal, Alomomola or Alolan Muk builds. I don't really think this is rank worthy alone - given that even despite these matchups on paper, Vanilluxe is not always capable of getting in on the rest of the team and is either capable of being stalled out or crippled by the likes of Mandibuzz or Sableye if it tries to approach it. Most importantly, Vanilluxe is trapped by Weavile, which features on the majority of viable stall builds due to its ability to blanket answer some of the metagame's biggest threats in Hoopa-Unbound and Slowking. Between this and the ability for this team to force Vanilluxe into poor situations if it needs to get in, I cannot really be convinced that this has a rankworthy niche. I would like to see some replays for this nom if possible, given that it's a UR nomination.Hi I’d like to nominate Vanilluxe to A-
I believe Vanilluxe has an incredible niche in this tier as a stall breaker / balance breaker. Vanilluxe has a wonderful 110 base special attack along with an amazing ability that grants 100% accurate blizzards and 6% chip onto your opponent at the end of the round. If you are wondering just how strong the cone is, lemme show you.
Looking at this sample stall made by Chazm https://pokepast.es/190d4e03a6ccb0f9
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowking-Galar: 243-286 (61.6 - 72.5%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 210-247 (53.2 - 62.6%) -
As you can see, there isn’t much that can switch into my friend Vaniluxe. Currently, our stalls are not prepared for it whatsoever. The best counterplay would be spdef rotom heat because, even the steel types get cooked by HP fire. Here is my favorite set for Vanilluxe.
https://pokepast.es/6f64c9c9ed3f1356
Well thank you for reading ! I hope my man Vanilluxe can finallly get the respect it deserves.
I feel like starting it off in A- is a bit of a stretch to say the least, especially as it already faces a lot of competition from already existing, much easier to support strong specs wallbreakers like Primarina, Keldeo, among others, (the former two do more damage with Hydro than Vanilluxe's Blizzard) some of which also give some stalls a run for their money. I think a nom for C rank is a bit more reasonable, though at present I'm not sure what niche it would have to justify it being ranked. It doesn't really exploit any current meta trends, other than arguably the rise of bulkier teams, which many existing wallbreakers also exploit. Having a good matchup vs one particular stall team when many other stall teams exist also doesn't hold much weight. For example, the other sample stall team isn't really as bothered by Vanilluxe, with it packing an AV Muk that can comfortably come in on it, pursuit it, and be wish healed by Umbreon later, who itself needs rocks to be 2HKOd.Hi I’d like to nominate Vanilluxe to A-
I believe Vanilluxe has an incredible niche in this tier as a stall breaker / balance breaker. Vanilluxe has a wonderful 110 base special attack along with an amazing ability that grants 100% accurate blizzards and 6% chip onto your opponent at the end of the round. If you are wondering just how strong the cone is, lemme show you.
Looking at this sample stall made by Chazm https://pokepast.es/190d4e03a6ccb0f9
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowking-Galar: 243-286 (61.6 - 72.5%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Vanilluxe Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 210-247 (53.2 - 62.6%) -
As you can see, there isn’t much that can switch into my friend Vaniluxe. Currently, our stalls are not prepared for it whatsoever. The best counterplay would be spdef rotom heat because, even the steel types get cooked by HP fire. Here is my favorite set for Vanilluxe.
https://pokepast.es/6f64c9c9ed3f1356
Well thank you for reading ! I hope my man Vanilluxe can finallly get the respect it deserves.
While the calcs are impressive, it's important to consider it's rocks weak, slow and frail, all of which mandate a lot of team support other breakers don't necessarily need. It's also important to remember that it's rather prediction reliant, and that while it can theoretically fry certain steels, they discourage the spamming of its main STAB to the extent they're effective enough a deterrent anyways.
Freeze-Drying bulky waters is nice but other specs breakers either don't care about them or, in the case of Keldeo and Primarina (the latter of which just Moonblasts all of them other than the rare and honestly rather mediocre Empoleon, which Vaniluxe only has 5% and not a 2HKO on), can just Flip Turn out into something that can beat them.
It's an interesting pick (and as someone who has recently been on an experimenting binge, I can respect experimentation with less common/unranked mons), but I don't personally see much of a reason to rank it.
Also:
Some noms, rlly brief
S --> A+ - rlly good mon but the meta has adapted to it really well currently and finds less opportunities to wreak havoc
A --> A+ - defining mon, fucks most hazard setters, stall win con, etc. suspect this
A+ --> A - good mon still but gets crippled too fast too much over the course of a game and is certainly not weav/slowking/shifu level
B --> B+ / A- - franco said this but basically this mon is rlly good and is a good staple on stall teams which r rlly good rn
A --> A- - bad
A --> A+ - premier special wall, goated, who breaking this? weavile who?
C --> B- - stall is at its peak rn so these should rise
B- --> higher - this mon is pog, CB is pretty cool to use and no more galardos either
B- --> C / UR - when did people last use this?
B+ --> higher - super good mon, beats every fogger as well as mega sab
B --> lower - never rlly does anything tbh
A- --> higher - specs prim counters who? empoleon is unviable piece of dog and blissey doesnt exist.
Unranks
C --> UR - they're all super ass and have no niche or the niche is too small to justify
Ranks
UR --> C - good stallbreaker currently and abuses non-CM sableye well
UR --> B- - justfranco could elaborate on this
S --> A+ - rlly good mon but the meta has adapted to it really well currently and finds less opportunities to wreak havoc A --> A+ - defining mon, fucks most hazard setters, stall win con, etc. suspect this A+ --> A - good mon still but gets crippled too fast too much over the course of a game and is certainly not weav/slowking/shifu level B --> B+ / A- - franco said this but basically this mon is rlly good and is a good staple on stall teams which r rlly good rn A --> A- - bad A --> A+ - premier special wall, goated, who breaking this? weavile who? C --> B- - stall is at its peak rn so these should rise B- --> higher - this mon is pog, CB is pretty cool to use and no more galardos either B- --> C / UR - when did people last use this? B+ --> higher - super good mon, beats every fogger as well as mega sab B --> lower - never rlly does anything tbh A- --> higher - specs prim counters who? empoleon is unviable piece of dog and blissey doesnt exist.Unranks
C --> UR - they're all super ass and have no niche or the niche is too small to justifyRanks
UR --> C - good stallbreaker currently and abuses non-CM sableye well UR --> B- - justfranco could elaborate on this
na the reason this guy is god is cuz it clicks cm and u realize that ur counter gets fucked by the colbur berry '-'
tldr:
Here are a few noms and my thoughts on these Pokemon:
Rises:
A --> S
is probably the best Pokemon in the tier, with it being the reason why Stall and Bulky Balance are arguably the best team styles at this moment. Our Gremlin Friend's Bulk and Magic Bounce gives its team near total protection against Entry Hazards, while these factors also make it extremely hard to wear down and kill. Alongside all this is that there aren't too many viable Faries in the tier, so while 
and are amazing, the rest are quite rare and difficult to fit. And it even has fantastic utility outside of negating Hazards. Knock Off and Wisp are excellent, making it even harder for Offense to break past it and its teammates. And theres always the CM, which is a terror of a wincon. These factors make the stall god, a nigh unkillable beast on Defense.
A- --> A+
With Stall being so prevalent, your and my new best friend says no to that and blasts them with the fury of a million Moons. is in such a superb spot in the meta game due to it just blasting away at all the bulk around it. , the tier king, wants nothing to do with it. Even 
gets stomped by Psychic, making it only a stop gap to assasinating stall. The only true viable counter I can really find is AV , everything else is merely food for its rampage. And to make things better, isn't just a one trick mermaid breaker.
Courtesy of its great typing, checks so many dangerous threats in this Meta, notably 
, 
, 
, and 
. Now unfortunately I say check and not counter as 's mediocre defense makes it unable to switch in easily. But once in, it completely blanks these top-tier threats, forcing them out or eliminating them for the game. And Choice Specs isn't 's only role. With Sub CM, it can level out the pain to Defense praying that they guessed right with 's STAB. Aspiring Stall Players, you better get your or out, or you're in for a rough time. Primarina is a top-tier Special Breaker and worthy of A+.
A --> A+
The aformentioned best counter finds itself as a great Pokemon in its own right. With Assault Vest, it is arguably the best Special Wall in the tier, handling almost every Special Attacker around. And with Regenerator, is infuriating to kill. The only thing that easily stops it is , but with that being one great but singular Pokemon, as well as the reality that struggles to come into anything runs aside from Psychic. And is even capable of running Z-NP sets, with the express purpose of luring while being a scary offensive presence in its own right. While the Sp Def loss from no AV is a weakness of this set, still remains a great tank.
A- --> A/A+
in my opinion is one of the most underrated Pokemon in this meta. While Defense dominates, its Nasty Plot set is capable of ripping right through Stall and Balance, outboosting and crushing , while having a chance to OHKO with All-Out Pummeling.
The only thing reeling in is AV , but with some assistance our Monkey friend can put stall on its knees. And this isn't to say is dead weight vs. offense. Its great speed lets it act as a threat and a half unboosted, and should it be able to NP up you're gonna have a bad time. in particular is put in a crappy position if manages to get in. Vacume Wave is the Icing on the cake, letting it act as an ever stronger wincon.
to B+
Big Bird's evil cousin struggles to fit outside of Dual Screens HO, but there it is great. Its good bulk combined with a strong STAB Combo, Nasty Plot, and Agility makes it capabale of breaking almost every wall and sweep entire teams. And with Flyinium-Z, its unreliable Hurricane is transformed into a Supersonic-Skystrike capable of shattering the bulkiest of walls. However, it does struggle with's immensly strong Ice Shard, and as I said only really fits on some HO. Regardless, in this role, is great, and deserves to rise due to that fact.
to B+/A-
As a stallbreaker is a great choice due to it hard walling most picks and freely set up on them, while they helplessly waste their PP trying to break its Subs. Even struggles to break past its subs, and while Suicune can't do much back at first, those CM Boosts allow it to slowly break past and later the rest of the oppodents team. Even is slowly brought down. Probably the hardest answer to stall in the tier, and although not the easiest to fit, it is very deserving of a raise.
Other Stallmons: C to B, C to B-, and B to B+/A-
Not much to say here, but with stall getting even better these mons deserve a rise. to be raised higher than due to it generally being a more easy to use Unaware user, but has a niche.
Drops: :(
A to B+/B
With stealing the spotlight, has little to stand out. The former's damage output is just much harder to pass up on. Its niche with resisting Rocks and being able to dish them out is more neutered with being so common. Not unviable, but not that good anymore.
A to B+
I feel has been on a decline lately. With stall blocking its Rocks and making its life hell with residual damage, combined with its mediocre damage output, just isn't as good as it once was. Flip Turn and Rocks are still great, but not enough to justify A tier in my opinion.
Rises:
A --> S is probably the best Pokemon in the tier, with it being the reason why Stall and Bulky Balance are arguably the best team styles at this moment. Our Gremlin Friend's Bulk and Magic Bounce gives its team near total protection against Entry Hazards, while these factors also make it extremely hard to wear down and kill. Alongside all this is that there aren't too many viable Faries in the tier, so while and are amazing, the rest are quite rare and difficult to fit. And it even has fantastic utility outside of negating Hazards. Knock Off and Wisp are excellent, making it even harder for Offense to break past it and its teammates. And theres always the CM, which is a terror of a wincon. These factors make the stall god, a nigh unkillable beast on Defense. A- --> A+With Stall being so prevalent, your and my new best friend says no to that and blasts them with the fury of a million Moons.
is in such a superb spot in the meta game due to it just blasting away at all the bulk around it. , the tier king, wants nothing to do with it. Even gets stomped by Psychic, making it only a stop gap to assasinating stall. The only true viable counter I can really find is AV , everything else is merely food for its rampage. And to make things better, isn't just a one trick mermaid breaker.Courtesy of its great typing,
checks so many dangerous threats in this Meta, notably , , , and . Now unfortunately I say check and not counter as 's mediocre defense makes it unable to switch in easily. But once in, it completely blanks these top-tier threats, forcing them out or eliminating them for the game. And Choice Specs isn't 's only role. With Sub CM, it can level out the pain to Defense praying that they guessed right with 's STAB. Aspiring Stall Players, you better get your or out, or you're in for a rough time. Primarina is a top-tier Special Breaker and worthy of A+. A --> A+The aformentioned best
counter finds itself as a great Pokemon in its own right. With Assault Vest, it is arguably the best Special Wall in the tier, handling almost every Special Attacker around. And with Regenerator, is infuriating to kill. The only thing that easily stops it is , but with that being one great but singular Pokemon, as well as the reality that struggles to come into anything runs aside from Psychic. And is even capable of running Z-NP sets, with the express purpose of luring while being a scary offensive presence in its own right. While the Sp Def loss from no AV is a weakness of this set, still remains a great tank. A- --> A/A+ in my opinion is one of the most underrated Pokemon in this meta. While Defense dominates, its Nasty Plot set is capable of ripping right through Stall and Balance, outboosting and crushing , while having a chance to OHKO with All-Out Pummeling.252 SpA Infernape All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 375-442 (95.1 - 112.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
The only thing reeling in
is AV , but with some assistance our Monkey friend can put stall on its knees. And this isn't to say is dead weight vs. offense. Its great speed lets it act as a threat and a half unboosted, and should it be able to NP up you're gonna have a bad time. in particular is put in a crappy position if manages to get in. Vacume Wave is the Icing on the cake, letting it act as an ever stronger wincon. to B+Big Bird's evil cousin struggles to fit outside of Dual Screens HO, but there it is great. Its good bulk combined with a strong STAB Combo, Nasty Plot, and Agility makes it capabale of breaking almost every wall and sweep entire teams. And with Flyinium-Z, its unreliable Hurricane is transformed into a Supersonic-Skystrike capable of shattering the bulkiest of walls. However, it does struggle with
's immensly strong Ice Shard, and as I said only really fits on some HO. Regardless, in this role, is great, and deserves to rise due to that fact. to B+/A-As a stallbreaker
is a great choice due to it hard walling most picks and freely set up on them, while they helplessly waste their PP trying to break its Subs. Even struggles to break past its subs, and while Suicune can't do much back at first, those CM Boosts allow it to slowly break past and later the rest of the oppodents team. Even is slowly brought down. Probably the hardest answer to stall in the tier, and although not the easiest to fit, it is very deserving of a raise.Other Stallmons:
C to B, C to B-, and B to B+/A-Not much to say here, but with stall getting even better these mons deserve a rise.
to be raised higher than due to it generally being a more easy to use Unaware user, but has a niche.Drops: :(
A to B+/BWith
stealing the spotlight, has little to stand out. The former's damage output is just much harder to pass up on. Its niche with resisting Rocks and being able to dish them out is more neutered with being so common. Not unviable, but not that good anymore. A to B+I feel
has been on a decline lately. With stall blocking its Rocks and making its life hell with residual damage, combined with its mediocre damage output, just isn't as good as it once was. Flip Turn and Rocks are still great, but not enough to justify A tier in my opinion.
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Hi thank you for the responses. I do agree that overall other specs uses such as Primarina tower over it. I thought about it and I was hoping a C or even B- rank could satisfy. I am also providing a replay against a good player that better shows off Vanilluxes abilities as a C or possibly B- rank pokemon.
Downloadhttps://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1353165131-2swtdlm4zf460vlpcdqv8ljqrwa1syopw
Time for the first VR Update in (checks calendar) almost three months!
Rises:
Weavile: A+ -> S-
Sableye-Mega: A -> S
Scizor: A -> A+
Slowking-Galar: A -> A+
Primarina: A- -> A
Nihilego: B+ -> A-
Alomomola: B -> B+
Bisharp: B- -> B
Gligar: C -> B-
Pyukumuku: C -> B-
Quagsire: C -> B-
Umbreon: UR -> C
We all know what this thing does. It clicks Knock, gets rid of the helmet, then goes ballistic with Axel. While theoretically a few Pokemon resist its STABs, the vast majority hate losing their items so in reality its actual list of good checks is much shorter. It is influential to the point many bulky Pokemon are opting to run random Z moves they almost never click because it's ever so slightly better than being itemless (see bulky Scizor and Rotom-Wash). It's one of the best mons for speed control, the best Pursuiter in the tier and overall arguably the best offensive mon in the tier right now.
Mega Sableye blocks 90% of our rockers, due to the vast majority being passive, and only a few of those who aren't passive are able to actually touch it. It is also a very threatening Calm Mind sweeper that can be difficult to stop without a fairy. It has more than made itself known as one of the best mons in the tier, and its rise reflects that.
Scizor's bulky set is back with a vengeance, being one of the few Weavile switchins that fits on more offensive teams (and to an extent in general), as well as checking a fair amount of other stuff too.
While AV is still a very good set, CM is the set that merited this rise. CM is a very dangerous wincon that can be difficult to stop thanks to its bulk letting it effectively predict around and often escape Pursuit trappers, good power, ability to spread not one but two types of status, immunity to Toxic making putting it on a timer extremely difficult, and a Z move or Colbur berry to deal with the otherwise troublesome Weavile, not to mention Regenerator lets it come in multiple times in a match. Not a whole lot stops it in the long run except for some faster grounds, and even then a lot fail to do more than delay the inevitable thanks to Regenerator.
Specs sets have very few switchins and hit very hard, not to mention it has some defensive utillity in checking Keldeo and being able to take an Axel from Weavile. SubCM sets also have a good matchup vs fat, with max spdef sets being able to use Amoonguss, a usual check, as setup fodder.
One of the few rockers able to beat Mega Sableye and a dangerous Pokemon in its own right thanks to Power Herb + a very powerful Meteor Beam and Beast Boost, with enough coverage to get past most non steel threats (a lot of which take a ton from Meteor Beam), Nihilego definitely fits in with A-, especially in the current meta.
It's not hopelessly outclassed by Zapdos-Galar as a Defog deterrent anymore, whoo!
, 
, and Stall is at its peak right now thanks to Mega Sableye, and these Pokemon have risen to reflect it.
Umbreon is an effective wish passer and spdef wall on stall teams, as well as being able to check Mega Sableye in stall v stall games, putting a decent stop to Calm Mind sets and deterring careless Wisping thanks to Synchronize, which Umbreon can heal with Heal Bell.
Drops:
Aegislash: S -> A+
Skarmory: A+ -> A
Buzzwole: A -> B+
Celesteela: A -> A-
Krookodile: A -> A-
Terrakion: A -> A-
Dracozolt: A- -> B+
Tapu Bulu: A- -> B+
Grimmsnarl: B+ -> B
Slowbro-Galar: B+ -> B
Staraptor: B+ -> B
Starmie: B+ -> B
Toxtricity: B+ -> B
Cobalion: B -> B-
Haxorus: B -> B-
Mimikyu: B -> B-
Necrozma: B -> B-
Obstagoon: B -> B-
Reuniclus: B -> B-
Scolipede: B -> C
Sharpedo-Mega: B -> B-
Aggron-Mega: B- -> C
Ditto: B- -> C
Klefki: B- -> UR
Magneton: B- -> C
Pincurchin: B- -> UR
Raichu-Alola: B- -> UR
Araquanid: C -> UR
Conkeldurr: C -> UR
Incineroar: C -> UR
Salamence: C -> UR
Seismitoad: C -> UR
Tentacruel: C -> UR
Tornadus: C -> UR
Zygarde-10%: C -> UR
While Aegislash is still a very dangerous mon and SubTox is still a good set, people are just generally better prepared to deal with it or play around it. Mega Sableye can also be a dead stop to it, depending on the set. Still a good mon but just not S anymore.
Skarmory is still one of the best defensive mons in the tier but right now it gets completely hard stopped by Mega Sableye, making it dead weight instead of the Spike stacking menace it usually is, and considering Mega Sableye is extremely good right now, that is something of a large downside.
Offensive sets are generally outclassed or inconsistent, and defensive ones get shut out or worse, used as setup fodder by a lot of things. Not a bad mon but one that's hard to justify right now.
Autosteela really struggles in a bulky meta like this, and defensive sets are one hair short of extinct. HO teams are also at a low which sucks because that's where Autosteela is at its best.
Scarf is really weak in a meta as bulky as this, doesn't even revenge that many sweepers anymore and Weavile is generally preferred as the fast Pursuiting speed control. Bulky rocks sets are alright but are too weak to Pursuit anything other than really frail psychics, and are shut out by MSab as rockers (but a lot of stuff is so...).
While it's one of the few rockers able to beat Mega Sableye, it is still extremely awkward to fit on teams and strong wallbreakers are not hard to find nowadays. Far from a bad mon and a good wallbreaker but it has too many flaws to stay in A rank.
Galarian Slowking is a better CMer in almost every way. Honestly could probably have dropped further.
, , 
, 
and 
HO in general is much more limited in lead options right now, and a bulkier meta makes it harder for HO to do a lot, which these drops reflect. Notably Mega Sharpedo is heavily reliant on Spikes to be effective, which MSab limits.
Inconsistent and struggles with a lot to begin with.
and 
The walled by MSab duo - Necrozma can't rocks and Reuni can't CM, not to mention Galarking is generally a better CMer than Reuni.
While BU + Taunt theoretically has a decent MU vs stall, it takes too long to get to enough boosts to beat certain stallmons like Skarmory and Mega Sableye, and still have enough time to beat the rest of the team before burn kills it. MSab can spam Knock with Utillity sets or the occasional Snarl on CM to wear it down even more. Unaware mons, notably Quagsire, also are able to eat any attack and inflict chip damage, limiting Obstagoon even more. Generally stall can limit Obstagoon to the extent it's manageable with attacks mons usually run anyways. Finally, its lack of resistances other than Dark make getting it in more difficult than its bulk would suggest, so often other wall/stallbreakers are preferred. EDIT: Obsta is immune to Hex bro, the point about it being worn down too fast still applies though
Melmetal is better 9 times out of 10. It has better special bulk but that's about it.
lol
lmao
We're not down that bad for Keldeo and Prima switchins (which it fails to be in the latter's case anyways) and it just doesn't really do anything else. Can't even spin because MSab just spinblocks it and tspikes are out because, again, MSab.
Spectrier is gone, it can't hurt you anymore.
The niche it has over Dragonite (bulky fogger that can check Keldeo and outspeed Urshifu-R) is way too specific.
Hoopa-U is gone, it can't hurt you anymore.
When would I ever use this? There's like 20 fighting wallbreakers that are easier to fit, it has little to no defensive utillity and is very reliant on volt turn support to get in, which even then is difficult because of how slow it is.
Caught in an extremely awkward midground between Swampert and Gastrodon that's almost never worth it as all of our top water threats can beat Seismitoad anyways.
and Really don't like Swampert being as good as it is and it's an involved process to get Alolan Raichu going to begin with.
Scarf Urshifu is rare nowadays so having a lead that can beat it isn't as important at the minute.
Rises:
Weavile: A+ -> S-
Sableye-Mega: A -> S
Scizor: A -> A+
Slowking-Galar: A -> A+
Primarina: A- -> A
Nihilego: B+ -> A-
Alomomola: B -> B+
Bisharp: B- -> B
Gligar: C -> B-
Pyukumuku: C -> B-
Quagsire: C -> B-
Umbreon: UR -> C
We all know what this thing does. It clicks Knock, gets rid of the helmet, then goes ballistic with Axel. While theoretically a few Pokemon resist its STABs, the vast majority hate losing their items so in reality its actual list of good checks is much shorter. It is influential to the point many bulky Pokemon are opting to run random Z moves they almost never click because it's ever so slightly better than being itemless (see bulky Scizor and Rotom-Wash). It's one of the best mons for speed control, the best Pursuiter in the tier and overall arguably the best offensive mon in the tier right now. Mega Sableye blocks 90% of our rockers, due to the vast majority being passive, and only a few of those who aren't passive are able to actually touch it. It is also a very threatening Calm Mind sweeper that can be difficult to stop without a fairy. It has more than made itself known as one of the best mons in the tier, and its rise reflects that. Scizor's bulky set is back with a vengeance, being one of the few Weavile switchins that fits on more offensive teams (and to an extent in general), as well as checking a fair amount of other stuff too. While AV is still a very good set, CM is the set that merited this rise. CM is a very dangerous wincon that can be difficult to stop thanks to its bulk letting it effectively predict around and often escape Pursuit trappers, good power, ability to spread not one but two types of status, immunity to Toxic making putting it on a timer extremely difficult, and a Z move or Colbur berry to deal with the otherwise troublesome Weavile, not to mention Regenerator lets it come in multiple times in a match. Not a whole lot stops it in the long run except for some faster grounds, and even then a lot fail to do more than delay the inevitable thanks to Regenerator. Specs sets have very few switchins and hit very hard, not to mention it has some defensive utillity in checking Keldeo and being able to take an Axel from Weavile. SubCM sets also have a good matchup vs fat, with max spdef sets being able to use Amoonguss, a usual check, as setup fodder. One of the few rockers able to beat Mega Sableye and a dangerous Pokemon in its own right thanks to Power Herb + a very powerful Meteor Beam and Beast Boost, with enough coverage to get past most non steel threats (a lot of which take a ton from Meteor Beam), Nihilego definitely fits in with A-, especially in the current meta. It's not hopelessly outclassed by Zapdos-Galar as a Defog deterrent anymore, whoo!, , and Stall is at its peak right now thanks to Mega Sableye, and these Pokemon have risen to reflect it. Umbreon is an effective wish passer and spdef wall on stall teams, as well as being able to check Mega Sableye in stall v stall games, putting a decent stop to Calm Mind sets and deterring careless Wisping thanks to Synchronize, which Umbreon can heal with Heal Bell.Drops:
Aegislash: S -> A+
Skarmory: A+ -> A
Buzzwole: A -> B+
Celesteela: A -> A-
Krookodile: A -> A-
Terrakion: A -> A-
Dracozolt: A- -> B+
Tapu Bulu: A- -> B+
Grimmsnarl: B+ -> B
Slowbro-Galar: B+ -> B
Staraptor: B+ -> B
Starmie: B+ -> B
Toxtricity: B+ -> B
Cobalion: B -> B-
Haxorus: B -> B-
Mimikyu: B -> B-
Necrozma: B -> B-
Obstagoon: B -> B-
Reuniclus: B -> B-
Scolipede: B -> C
Sharpedo-Mega: B -> B-
Aggron-Mega: B- -> C
Ditto: B- -> C
Klefki: B- -> UR
Magneton: B- -> C
Pincurchin: B- -> UR
Raichu-Alola: B- -> UR
Araquanid: C -> UR
Conkeldurr: C -> UR
Incineroar: C -> UR
Salamence: C -> UR
Seismitoad: C -> UR
Tentacruel: C -> UR
Tornadus: C -> UR
Zygarde-10%: C -> UR
While Aegislash is still a very dangerous mon and SubTox is still a good set, people are just generally better prepared to deal with it or play around it. Mega Sableye can also be a dead stop to it, depending on the set. Still a good mon but just not S anymore.
Skarmory is still one of the best defensive mons in the tier but right now it gets completely hard stopped by Mega Sableye, making it dead weight instead of the Spike stacking menace it usually is, and considering Mega Sableye is extremely good right now, that is something of a large downside.
Offensive sets are generally outclassed or inconsistent, and defensive ones get shut out or worse, used as setup fodder by a lot of things. Not a bad mon but one that's hard to justify right now.
Autosteela really struggles in a bulky meta like this, and defensive sets are one hair short of extinct. HO teams are also at a low which sucks because that's where Autosteela is at its best.
Scarf is really weak in a meta as bulky as this, doesn't even revenge that many sweepers anymore and Weavile is generally preferred as the fast Pursuiting speed control. Bulky rocks sets are alright but are too weak to Pursuit anything other than really frail psychics, and are shut out by MSab as rockers (but a lot of stuff is so...).
While it's one of the few rockers able to beat Mega Sableye, it is still extremely awkward to fit on teams and strong wallbreakers are not hard to find nowadays. Far from a bad mon and a good wallbreaker but it has too many flaws to stay in A rank.
Galarian Slowking is a better CMer in almost every way. Honestly could probably have dropped further.
, , , and HO in general is much more limited in lead options right now, and a bulkier meta makes it harder for HO to do a lot, which these drops reflect. Notably Mega Sharpedo is heavily reliant on Spikes to be effective, which MSab limits. Inconsistent and struggles with a lot to begin with. and The walled by MSab duo - Necrozma can't rocks and Reuni can't CM, not to mention Galarking is generally a better CMer than Reuni. While BU + Taunt theoretically has a decent MU vs stall, it takes too long to get to enough boosts to beat certain stallmons like Skarmory and Mega Sableye, and still have enough time to beat the rest of the team before burn kills it. MSab can spam Knock with Utillity sets or the occasional Snarl on CM to wear it down even more. Unaware mons, notably Quagsire, also are able to eat any attack and inflict chip damage, limiting Obstagoon even more. Generally stall can limit Obstagoon to the extent it's manageable with attacks mons usually run anyways. Finally, its lack of resistances other than Dark make getting it in more difficult than its bulk would suggest, so often other wall/stallbreakers are preferred. EDIT: Obsta is immune to Hex bro, the point about it being worn down too fast still applies though Melmetal is better 9 times out of 10. It has better special bulk but that's about it. lol lmao We're not down that bad for Keldeo and Prima switchins (which it fails to be in the latter's case anyways) and it just doesn't really do anything else. Can't even spin because MSab just spinblocks it and tspikes are out because, again, MSab. Spectrier is gone, it can't hurt you anymore. The niche it has over Dragonite (bulky fogger that can check Keldeo and outspeed Urshifu-R) is way too specific. Hoopa-U is gone, it can't hurt you anymore. When would I ever use this? There's like 20 fighting wallbreakers that are easier to fit, it has little to no defensive utillity and is very reliant on volt turn support to get in, which even then is difficult because of how slow it is. Caught in an extremely awkward midground between Swampert and Gastrodon that's almost never worth it as all of our top water threats can beat Seismitoad anyways. and Really don't like Swampert being as good as it is and it's an involved process to get Alolan Raichu going to begin with. Scarf Urshifu is rare nowadays so having a lead that can beat it isn't as important at the minute.
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Why is megadrill UR? Ik it only fits on HO and is heavily reliant on flip turn pert (yeah if that gets banned yeet megadrill into the eternal abyss), but it can be pretty good on that specific archetype.
seems more like a C to me but i cant nom because my dad doesn't let me upload replays :(
seems more like a C to me but i cant nom because my dad doesn't let me upload replays :(
Mega Beedrill DOESNT fit on HO or any team to be specific, its just outclassed by better Bug types in this tier such as Scizor or Buzzwole, high Speed and Attack are appealing but the issue comes in this mon coverage, while at first glance isnt bad the thing is that Drill Run even on Super Effective targets does nothing. Melmetal, Aegislash, Scizor, Moltres, Skarmory and MANY more just wont give it a breath and being extremely fragile doesnt help much agaisnt offense with Pokemon such as Weavile, Urshifu-RS, Keldeo, etc. It gets worn down easily with usual Stealth Rock and the common Spikes that Skarm or Mew are able to throw around and revenge killed by any priority or scarfer, pulling off a Swords Dance is downright impossible because aside from not having any switchin, it wont help many of his already problematic Matchups anyway
New
New --> A
Tangrowth has solidified as like the best partner for Glowking. Its ability to soft check so many Pokemon in the tier and not sucking momentum is simply great. Knock Off + Sleep Powder is super annoying to switch into. I'm tired so I don't want to elaborate more so someone else do this but this mon is pog lol use it.
Rises
A --> S
Mew has solidified itself as one of the top threats of the tier. Since Mega Sableye and Weavile's departure, Mew has cemented itself as the best Spiker in the entire tier. A simple set of Spikes + Wisp + Knock is able to annoy the entire tier at worst. Everyone playing this tier knows how insanely valuable Spikes are in this tier, and are arguably better than Stealth Rocks. Being able to chip many top threats like Primarina, Melmetal and Aegislash is just so damn valuable and effective at crippling threats long term. Mew's speed tier also allows it to outspeed many top threats like Urshifu-RS, Krookodile and Dragonite and is able to get off a Wisp or Knock Off.
Outside of this, Mew also has very potent offensive sets. Dual dance + Psychic / Fire coverage is insanely deadly, especially coupled with Mewnium Z. The last three bans of the tier have all been Dark-types (Hoopa-U, Mega Sableye & Weavile), which has opened up this set by a ton. Dark types such as Krookodile and Zarude are simply not powerful enough to keep Mew from doing what it wants to do, especially when Mew is paired with Screens support. Little defensive checks exist for this set and people are scraping at the bottom of the tier for shit like Mandibuzz and Umbreon to be able to defensively check this.
All in all, Mew's presence in the tier has not gone unnoticed and has definitely cemented itself as a top 3 Pokémon in the tier and truly deserving of S rank.
A --> A+
Everyone knows how insanely deadly Primarina is for pretty much every team. Between Specs and SubCM, Primarina is able to put such immense pressure both in practice and on paper for pretty much every team. Specs is super hard to defensively prepare for, with only a handful of checks in AV Galarian Slowking, AV Amoonguss and AV Tangrowth really wanting to switch into it (the latter two can get 2HKO'd after Rocks anyway, but can pivot well because of Regen). Offensive teams can handle Specs set better because of Primarina's mediocre Speed tier, but should it come in on anything it will most of the time claim a kill or two. SubCM sets can also use lots of common checks as setup fodder, since after a few CM boosts Pokémon like Amoonguss and Tangrowth simply don't do the job anymore since they can't break the Substitute. This 'mon is insanely good atm and deserves a rise to the rank where every top tier breaker should reside.
Skarmory should rise because of its ability to be an amazing glue for a lot of teams. It's a top Spikes alongside Mew, and as said in the Mew paragraph, Spikes are simply amazing in this meta. On top of this, Skarmory offers valuable defensive utility in the form of checking Melmetal, Scizor, Urshifu-RS, Krookodile and Diggersby. Mega Sableye's departure means Skarmory can easily get Spikes up throughout the game and just stays consistent doing it. Can also Whirlind out Galarian Slowking while not immediately dying to it
A- --> A+
Since the ban of Weavile, Alakazam has popped off like crazy. Not only did it lose its best check in the entire tier, the tier as a whole got a lot slower, which means Alakazam is thriving. A simple set of NP + Psychic / Fighting / Ghost is able to dismantle most bulkier builds within the tier. While Krookodile is getting more usage, Scarf Krookodile is still an absolute pile of shit, meaning Krookodile just drops to an unboosted Focus Blast. You're pretty much limited to super strong priority users, Scarf Zarude or Specially Defensive Mandibuzz / Celesteela to check it, meaning Alakazam absolutely deserves a huge rise from A- to A+.
Jirachi is back and better than ever. Z-Happy Hour has gained a lot of traction again and is proving it basically has no counters lmao. This fucker can literally just flinch through every fucking check it has. Not even shit like Band Bisharp can revenge this from full and just drops to Thunder. You're literally limited to like, Haze Quagsire and Scarf Zarude (Darkest Lariat ignores the Defense boost from Z-Happy Hour), but it's not even unrealistic to go for the Thunder para on Zarude and fish for Iron Head flinches after. Not to mention this thing under Screens is just unkillable. Deserves a rise to show how prominent it is rn.
A- --> A
We all expected it, but Weavile's departure has heavily benefited Krookodile. It now has way less competition as a Dark-type which is great. Krookodile also offers amazing role compression, as it can somewhat check Mew, as well as unboosted Alakazam should you run Chople Berry. Ground-immune, Psychic-immune, Ghost + Dark resist, Knock Off and Rocks as well as Intimidate is just simply amazing to have in a singular slot on a team and makes building overall way easier. Knock Off is still super spammable, and even Banded sets have seen some use and are fairly okay at bullying the opponent. Pursuit is obviously still as valuable as ever and is able to trap non King's Shield Aegi quite easily. AV sets are also not too bad as they allow you to come in hard on Mega Manectric, eat HP Grass / Ice and just Pursuit away. Groundium Z sets can also OHKO Glowking should they not be Shuca
Nihilego is the best offensive Rocker we have, and I'd even argue the best Rocker in the tier period. Weavile's ban means it has one less offensive check which is always great. Meteor Beam is just really hard to switch into, especially when Steels like Melmetal and Aegislash are chipped. Grass Knot is great for the uprising Krookodile and still common Swampert, Sludge Wave for the Mega Altaria's and Primarina's. It's like the most consistent Pokémon in the entire and that's no joke.
B+ --> A
I know I'm gonna be seeing some people question this 'nom, but hear me out. People are experimenting way too much with defensive Buzzwole sets. While those sets are still great at checking Pokemon like Urshifu-RS, Krookodile, Melmetal, Scizor, Zeraora and Terrakion, Buzzwole's potential lies in its offensive sets. It works completely different from other Fightings like Urshifu-RS or Keldeo. Life Orb Roost is an insane fucking 'mon to switch into. Mega Altaria just dies to CC into Ice Punch (you outspeed Defensive Altaria easily), everything else just dies to CC + EQ bar like Moltres and regular Slowking. Genuinely, look at this tier. Life Orb CC hits like a fucking truck and EQ just bops general checks like Aegislash and Glowking super easily. Defensive Pokemon like Amoonguss, Tangrowth, Hippowdon or Skarmory just get completely obliteraed. On top of this, it can still act as an defensive check and come in vs shit like Krook (which is very common atm), and check Scizor offensively. This 'mon is genuinely great and I truly advice everyone to try it out, you will not be disappointed!!
B+ --> A-
With the rise of Alakazam and Z-Happy Hour Jirachi, Zarude is as important as ever. Being like the only mon in the tier to be able to offensively check both of these huge threats is insanely valuable. HDB sets with Jungle Healing also completely shit on SubTox Aegi which is an immense threat for a lot of teams, as well as abusing Spikes Mew for free switches throughout the whole game. Even Bulk Up Dark-Z sets still have merit and can be quite challenging to switch into should you not pack a healthy Tangrowth or Mega Altaria. Offers great role compression currently for a lot of teams and should rise because of that.
B --> B+
Weavile being gone means lots of offensive Pokemon have one less offensive check, thus that being the reason Screens HO is a lot better again. We see giant threats like dual dance Mew, Z-Jirachi, Scizor, Mega Altaria and Galarian Moltres be supported by Screens a lot again and they're quite succesful. Galarian Moltres also checks Mew, Alakazam and Aegislash well which is great obviously. Grimmsnarl should obviously rise because its the Screen setter of choice for these teams.
B- --> B
Gligar's role compression should not be overlooked and we should definitely not ignore how much this thing can do for a team. Hazard removal can be insanely hard to find and Gligar offers just that. Not only that, it's an Electric-immune, Ground-immune, Fighting / Bug / Poison resist, has U-turn for momentum cores and checks shit like Toxic Aegislash insanely well. Checks Toxic Melmetal since they don't run Ice Punch and Gligar is insanely thicc. The role compression this offers for teams should not be overlooked and we should value it more than it has in the past.
Mamoswine should rise since Ice Shard is simply quite valuable with shit like DD Dragonite and Mega Altaria. Shits in Tangrowth + Glowking core which is really common atm. Strong prio user is quite valuable rn as well for shit like Alakazam. Also, Weavile is gone, which was some pretty decent competition as an offensive Ice-type.
C --> B
Lots of offensive threats roaming around and oftentimes not being able to cover them all means Ditto becomes better. Mew, Jirachi, Alakazam, Mega Altaria, Nihilego etc. It's just quite effective at preventing getting swept and with the tier being as awkward as it is when it comes to speed control, Ditto can be quite valuable in the tier.
Mandibuzz. Defog? Check! Alakazam + Mew + Aegislash check? Check! Ground immune? Check! Role compression is just quite nice and checks a bunch of gigantic threats in the tier and just makes teambuilding a lot easier for balance teams. It's like the only Mew counter we have bop. Also can Defog vs Mew which is insanely fucking valuable atm.
Umbreon! Wish passer for balance teams is super good and Heal Bell is quite good support. Inner Focus means you don't lose to broken Jirachi and this is like the only check we have vs that. You also check shit like Mew, Alakazam and Aegislash which is obviously great for obvious reasons.
I know JustFranco is banned but I'll leave his comment on Umbreon here:
Drops
A+ --> A
Genuinely don't think this 'mon is super great rn. Mew is now the more common Defogger than Skarmory, meaning it's harder to just slap on Washer as your hazard remover and call it a day. Having to rely on Pain Split just sucks, as oftentimes in practice it will not act as sufficient enough and won't let Rotom-W act as much of a check vs mons as you'd like it to. Like, genuinely, this 'mon barely checks anything and hates the trend of Zarude being more common. Still a great 'mon but it just doesn't fit with all the other A+ mons man.
A --> A-
Zeraora is just the better Electric, sorry. While being less powerful, constant Elec immune + revenging Alakazam + Knock Off is just so much more valuable in this meta than whatever Mega Manectric is doing. Bulkier Krookodile's, Glowking, AV Tangrowth etc. Even Hippowdon run more specially defensive spreads which just halts most of the progress Mega Manectric wants to make. And I don't think Zeraora deserves A+, so I'm dropping Mega Manectric instead.
A --> B+
I'm sorry, when am I using this over Urshifu-RS? The only thing I can think of is either Scarf (which I don't think is good, and doesn't even revenge PZ, Shifu does) and CM, which just struggles with Glowking / AV Tang / Amoong / Malt. The lack of a strong Ice move means Urshifu-RS just fits on teams better 8/10 times. It's not even like the speed tier matters much considering Urshifu-RS is running Aqua Jet more often than not nowadays which is just generally more effective vs offensive teams. Keldeo simply does not see the use as other A ranks and there's a good reason for it. The competition is just simply too big and does not qualify as a metagame staple. Drop it out of the A ranks.
A- --> B+
Super awkward to build with and can lead to weird team structures. Can still tear apart teams when positioned correctly, but you have to dedicate building your team around it to find something succesful. Don't think that's A rank worth in my eyes, and should reside in B+ with other HO goons like Grimm & Goltres.
A- --> B
Outside of checking Alakazam, there's no way I'm using defensive Celesteela over Skarmory. Spikes are just too good to pass that up. Not to mention the best check to defensive Celesteela ever just dropped, being AV Tangrowth. Offensive sets are cool and all, but are wildly inconsistent and are reliant on a lot of things to go well for the Steela user, and are pretty much exclusive to HO anyway.
Infernape is simply not used enough in a meta where Urshifu-RS and Buzzwole are prefered fightings, defensive Dragonite is getting experimented with, Glowking and Malt are top tier, Zam is the best late game cleaner and Primarina being the best breaker on most teams. Wildly inconsistent and is a huge matchup fish.
B+ --> B
Alomomola is not as neccesary anymore since Weavile's departure, the reason why it rose in the first place. Also, Zarude shits on it lol.
Sand isn't used much and Dracozolt with Hustle has to be the most inconsistent shit I've ever seen in my life. Mega Altaria being #1 also just does not help it ever.
Gastrodon is still decent but Zarude eats this and Swampert is simply preferred on more teams because of Rocks + Flip Turn.
B+ --> C
Tapu Bulu is horribad and has too many checks to keep up with. Melmetal, Malt, Aegi, Moltres, Scizor, Skarm, Amoong, Buzz, Dnite, Tang etc. Only thing this shit is useful for is Grassy Terrain support for shit like Melm and Aegi, but it still requires using Tapu Bulu so idk.
B --> B-
All these mons simply lack the relevance in the meta to remain B tier. Raptor dies when it attacks and Melm and Skarm are still in the tier so yeah. Suicune dies to Zarude and is not relevant. Togekiss breaks stall, but where is the stall? Also Nihilego top 1 hazard setter so bye Togekiss.
B --> C
Chandelure is hard outclassed by Aegislash as a Ghost breaker and is super vulernable to Pursuit as well. Nidoqueen is bad as a hazard setter so you're just better off using Nidoking 9/10 times.
B --> Unranked
Use Galarian Slowking.
B- --> C
Crawdaunt is suffering from huge competition in Urshifu-RS as a Water-type breaker, as it's a shitload slower and has a less reliable Water STAB. Still super scary to switch into ig when it comes in and Knock Off is scary.
Stall is dead and so is Quagsire.
Spikes HO is dead and Mega Sharpedo was horribly inconsistent on that archetype anyway due to Melm Skarm Malt Buzz Tang.
B- --> Unranked
Breloom is bad.
Haxorus is bad. This shit is meant to break stall but can't even break Skarm
Mimikyu is bad. Just use Aegislash, even on HO. Melm just doesn't do this thing well bruh.
Stall is dead.
C --> Unranked
Istg Mega Aggron checking Weavile better than Melm has to be the reason it stayed ranked cause there's no way I'm using this over either Melm or Skarm.
Magneton sucks dick and doesn't even trap half the Steels we have. It's just Skarm.
Stall is dead and A-Muk is horribad.
Grimmsnarl is better than A-Tales and Hail chipping ur team is fucking horrible lmao
Scolipede sucks ass, Alakazam is a strictly better late game cleaner now.
Shuckle just gets flinched down by Melmetal lead or just dies lol, just use Ribombee instead to not risk that interaction.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
VR after these changes:
edit: nihi rise to A instead of A+, hatt can stay B, nidoqueen & chandy drop to C instead of B-
New --> ATangrowth has solidified as like the best partner for Glowking. Its ability to soft check so many Pokemon in the tier and not sucking momentum is simply great. Knock Off + Sleep Powder is super annoying to switch into. I'm tired so I don't want to elaborate more so someone else do this but this mon is pog lol use it.
Rises
A --> SMew has solidified itself as one of the top threats of the tier. Since Mega Sableye and Weavile's departure, Mew has cemented itself as the best Spiker in the entire tier. A simple set of Spikes + Wisp + Knock is able to annoy the entire tier at worst. Everyone playing this tier knows how insanely valuable Spikes are in this tier, and are arguably better than Stealth Rocks. Being able to chip many top threats like Primarina, Melmetal and Aegislash is just so damn valuable and effective at crippling threats long term. Mew's speed tier also allows it to outspeed many top threats like Urshifu-RS, Krookodile and Dragonite and is able to get off a Wisp or Knock Off.
Outside of this, Mew also has very potent offensive sets. Dual dance + Psychic / Fire coverage is insanely deadly, especially coupled with Mewnium Z. The last three bans of the tier have all been Dark-types (Hoopa-U, Mega Sableye & Weavile), which has opened up this set by a ton. Dark types such as Krookodile and Zarude are simply not powerful enough to keep Mew from doing what it wants to do, especially when Mew is paired with Screens support. Little defensive checks exist for this set and people are scraping at the bottom of the tier for shit like Mandibuzz and Umbreon to be able to defensively check this.
All in all, Mew's presence in the tier has not gone unnoticed and has definitely cemented itself as a top 3 Pokémon in the tier and truly deserving of S rank.
A --> A+Everyone knows how insanely deadly Primarina is for pretty much every team. Between Specs and SubCM, Primarina is able to put such immense pressure both in practice and on paper for pretty much every team. Specs is super hard to defensively prepare for, with only a handful of checks in AV Galarian Slowking, AV Amoonguss and AV Tangrowth really wanting to switch into it (the latter two can get 2HKO'd after Rocks anyway, but can pivot well because of Regen). Offensive teams can handle Specs set better because of Primarina's mediocre Speed tier, but should it come in on anything it will most of the time claim a kill or two. SubCM sets can also use lots of common checks as setup fodder, since after a few CM boosts Pokémon like Amoonguss and Tangrowth simply don't do the job anymore since they can't break the Substitute. This 'mon is insanely good atm and deserves a rise to the rank where every top tier breaker should reside.
Skarmory should rise because of its ability to be an amazing glue for a lot of teams. It's a top Spikes alongside Mew, and as said in the Mew paragraph, Spikes are simply amazing in this meta. On top of this, Skarmory offers valuable defensive utility in the form of checking Melmetal, Scizor, Urshifu-RS, Krookodile and Diggersby. Mega Sableye's departure means Skarmory can easily get Spikes up throughout the game and just stays consistent doing it. Can also Whirlind out Galarian Slowking while not immediately dying to it
A- --> A+Since the ban of Weavile, Alakazam has popped off like crazy. Not only did it lose its best check in the entire tier, the tier as a whole got a lot slower, which means Alakazam is thriving. A simple set of NP + Psychic / Fighting / Ghost is able to dismantle most bulkier builds within the tier. While Krookodile is getting more usage, Scarf Krookodile is still an absolute pile of shit, meaning Krookodile just drops to an unboosted Focus Blast. You're pretty much limited to super strong priority users, Scarf Zarude or Specially Defensive Mandibuzz / Celesteela to check it, meaning Alakazam absolutely deserves a huge rise from A- to A+.
Jirachi is back and better than ever. Z-Happy Hour has gained a lot of traction again and is proving it basically has no counters lmao. This fucker can literally just flinch through every fucking check it has. Not even shit like Band Bisharp can revenge this from full and just drops to Thunder. You're literally limited to like, Haze Quagsire and Scarf Zarude (Darkest Lariat ignores the Defense boost from Z-Happy Hour), but it's not even unrealistic to go for the Thunder para on Zarude and fish for Iron Head flinches after. Not to mention this thing under Screens is just unkillable. Deserves a rise to show how prominent it is rn.
A- --> AWe all expected it, but Weavile's departure has heavily benefited Krookodile. It now has way less competition as a Dark-type which is great. Krookodile also offers amazing role compression, as it can somewhat check Mew, as well as unboosted Alakazam should you run Chople Berry. Ground-immune, Psychic-immune, Ghost + Dark resist, Knock Off and Rocks as well as Intimidate is just simply amazing to have in a singular slot on a team and makes building overall way easier. Knock Off is still super spammable, and even Banded sets have seen some use and are fairly okay at bullying the opponent. Pursuit is obviously still as valuable as ever and is able to trap non King's Shield Aegi quite easily. AV sets are also not too bad as they allow you to come in hard on Mega Manectric, eat HP Grass / Ice and just Pursuit away. Groundium Z sets can also OHKO Glowking should they not be Shuca
Nihilego is the best offensive Rocker we have, and I'd even argue the best Rocker in the tier period. Weavile's ban means it has one less offensive check which is always great. Meteor Beam is just really hard to switch into, especially when Steels like Melmetal and Aegislash are chipped. Grass Knot is great for the uprising Krookodile and still common Swampert, Sludge Wave for the Mega Altaria's and Primarina's. It's like the most consistent Pokémon in the entire and that's no joke.
B+ --> AI know I'm gonna be seeing some people question this 'nom, but hear me out. People are experimenting way too much with defensive Buzzwole sets. While those sets are still great at checking Pokemon like Urshifu-RS, Krookodile, Melmetal, Scizor, Zeraora and Terrakion, Buzzwole's potential lies in its offensive sets. It works completely different from other Fightings like Urshifu-RS or Keldeo. Life Orb Roost is an insane fucking 'mon to switch into. Mega Altaria just dies to CC into Ice Punch (you outspeed Defensive Altaria easily), everything else just dies to CC + EQ bar like Moltres and regular Slowking. Genuinely, look at this tier. Life Orb CC hits like a fucking truck and EQ just bops general checks like Aegislash and Glowking super easily. Defensive Pokemon like Amoonguss, Tangrowth, Hippowdon or Skarmory just get completely obliteraed. On top of this, it can still act as an defensive check and come in vs shit like Krook (which is very common atm), and check Scizor offensively. This 'mon is genuinely great and I truly advice everyone to try it out, you will not be disappointed!!
B+ --> A-With the rise of Alakazam and Z-Happy Hour Jirachi, Zarude is as important as ever. Being like the only mon in the tier to be able to offensively check both of these huge threats is insanely valuable. HDB sets with Jungle Healing also completely shit on SubTox Aegi which is an immense threat for a lot of teams, as well as abusing Spikes Mew for free switches throughout the whole game. Even Bulk Up Dark-Z sets still have merit and can be quite challenging to switch into should you not pack a healthy Tangrowth or Mega Altaria. Offers great role compression currently for a lot of teams and should rise because of that.
B --> B+Weavile being gone means lots of offensive Pokemon have one less offensive check, thus that being the reason Screens HO is a lot better again. We see giant threats like dual dance Mew, Z-Jirachi, Scizor, Mega Altaria and Galarian Moltres be supported by Screens a lot again and they're quite succesful. Galarian Moltres also checks Mew, Alakazam and Aegislash well which is great obviously. Grimmsnarl should obviously rise because its the Screen setter of choice for these teams.
B- --> BGligar's role compression should not be overlooked and we should definitely not ignore how much this thing can do for a team. Hazard removal can be insanely hard to find and Gligar offers just that. Not only that, it's an Electric-immune, Ground-immune, Fighting / Bug / Poison resist, has U-turn for momentum cores and checks shit like Toxic Aegislash insanely well. Checks Toxic Melmetal since they don't run Ice Punch and Gligar is insanely thicc. The role compression this offers for teams should not be overlooked and we should value it more than it has in the past.
Mamoswine should rise since Ice Shard is simply quite valuable with shit like DD Dragonite and Mega Altaria. Shits in Tangrowth + Glowking core which is really common atm. Strong prio user is quite valuable rn as well for shit like Alakazam. Also, Weavile is gone, which was some pretty decent competition as an offensive Ice-type.
C --> BLots of offensive threats roaming around and oftentimes not being able to cover them all means Ditto becomes better. Mew, Jirachi, Alakazam, Mega Altaria, Nihilego etc. It's just quite effective at preventing getting swept and with the tier being as awkward as it is when it comes to speed control, Ditto can be quite valuable in the tier.
Mandibuzz. Defog? Check! Alakazam + Mew + Aegislash check? Check! Ground immune? Check! Role compression is just quite nice and checks a bunch of gigantic threats in the tier and just makes teambuilding a lot easier for balance teams. It's like the only Mew counter we have bop. Also can Defog vs Mew which is insanely fucking valuable atm.
Umbreon! Wish passer for balance teams is super good and Heal Bell is quite good support. Inner Focus means you don't lose to broken Jirachi and this is like the only check we have vs that. You also check shit like Mew, Alakazam and Aegislash which is obviously great for obvious reasons.
I know JustFranco is banned but I'll leave his comment on Umbreon here:
Drops
A+ --> AGenuinely don't think this 'mon is super great rn. Mew is now the more common Defogger than Skarmory, meaning it's harder to just slap on Washer as your hazard remover and call it a day. Having to rely on Pain Split just sucks, as oftentimes in practice it will not act as sufficient enough and won't let Rotom-W act as much of a check vs mons as you'd like it to. Like, genuinely, this 'mon barely checks anything and hates the trend of Zarude being more common. Still a great 'mon but it just doesn't fit with all the other A+ mons man.
A --> A-Zeraora is just the better Electric, sorry. While being less powerful, constant Elec immune + revenging Alakazam + Knock Off is just so much more valuable in this meta than whatever Mega Manectric is doing. Bulkier Krookodile's, Glowking, AV Tangrowth etc. Even Hippowdon run more specially defensive spreads which just halts most of the progress Mega Manectric wants to make. And I don't think Zeraora deserves A+, so I'm dropping Mega Manectric instead.
A --> B+I'm sorry, when am I using this over Urshifu-RS? The only thing I can think of is either Scarf (which I don't think is good, and doesn't even revenge PZ, Shifu does) and CM, which just struggles with Glowking / AV Tang / Amoong / Malt. The lack of a strong Ice move means Urshifu-RS just fits on teams better 8/10 times. It's not even like the speed tier matters much considering Urshifu-RS is running Aqua Jet more often than not nowadays which is just generally more effective vs offensive teams. Keldeo simply does not see the use as other A ranks and there's a good reason for it. The competition is just simply too big and does not qualify as a metagame staple. Drop it out of the A ranks.
A- --> B+Super awkward to build with and can lead to weird team structures. Can still tear apart teams when positioned correctly, but you have to dedicate building your team around it to find something succesful. Don't think that's A rank worth in my eyes, and should reside in B+ with other HO goons like Grimm & Goltres.
A- --> BOutside of checking Alakazam, there's no way I'm using defensive Celesteela over Skarmory. Spikes are just too good to pass that up. Not to mention the best check to defensive Celesteela ever just dropped, being AV Tangrowth. Offensive sets are cool and all, but are wildly inconsistent and are reliant on a lot of things to go well for the Steela user, and are pretty much exclusive to HO anyway.
Infernape is simply not used enough in a meta where Urshifu-RS and Buzzwole are prefered fightings, defensive Dragonite is getting experimented with, Glowking and Malt are top tier, Zam is the best late game cleaner and Primarina being the best breaker on most teams. Wildly inconsistent and is a huge matchup fish.
B+ --> BAlomomola is not as neccesary anymore since Weavile's departure, the reason why it rose in the first place. Also, Zarude shits on it lol.
Sand isn't used much and Dracozolt with Hustle has to be the most inconsistent shit I've ever seen in my life. Mega Altaria being #1 also just does not help it ever.
Gastrodon is still decent but Zarude eats this and Swampert is simply preferred on more teams because of Rocks + Flip Turn.
B+ --> CTapu Bulu is horribad and has too many checks to keep up with. Melmetal, Malt, Aegi, Moltres, Scizor, Skarm, Amoong, Buzz, Dnite, Tang etc. Only thing this shit is useful for is Grassy Terrain support for shit like Melm and Aegi, but it still requires using Tapu Bulu so idk.
B --> B-All these mons simply lack the relevance in the meta to remain B tier. Raptor dies when it attacks and Melm and Skarm are still in the tier so yeah. Suicune dies to Zarude and is not relevant. Togekiss breaks stall, but where is the stall? Also Nihilego top 1 hazard setter so bye Togekiss.
B --> CChandelure is hard outclassed by Aegislash as a Ghost breaker and is super vulernable to Pursuit as well. Nidoqueen is bad as a hazard setter so you're just better off using Nidoking 9/10 times.
B --> UnrankedUse Galarian Slowking.
B- --> CCrawdaunt is suffering from huge competition in Urshifu-RS as a Water-type breaker, as it's a shitload slower and has a less reliable Water STAB. Still super scary to switch into ig when it comes in and Knock Off is scary.
Stall is dead and so is Quagsire.
Spikes HO is dead and Mega Sharpedo was horribly inconsistent on that archetype anyway due to Melm Skarm Malt Buzz Tang.
B- --> UnrankedBreloom is bad.
Haxorus is bad. This shit is meant to break stall but can't even break Skarm
Mimikyu is bad. Just use Aegislash, even on HO. Melm just doesn't do this thing well bruh.
Stall is dead.
C --> UnrankedIstg Mega Aggron checking Weavile better than Melm has to be the reason it stayed ranked cause there's no way I'm using this over either Melm or Skarm.
Magneton sucks dick and doesn't even trap half the Steels we have. It's just Skarm.
Stall is dead and A-Muk is horribad.
Grimmsnarl is better than A-Tales and Hail chipping ur team is fucking horrible lmao
Scolipede sucks ass, Alakazam is a strictly better late game cleaner now.
Shuckle just gets flinched down by Melmetal lead or just dies lol, just use Ribombee instead to not risk that interaction.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
VR after these changes:
S-Rank
S
Mew
A-Rank
A+
Alakazam
Jirachi
Slowking
A
Moltres
Tangrowth
Zeraora
A-
Dragonite
Hippowdon
Manectric-Mega
Porygon-Z
Rotom-Heat
Zarude
B-Rank
B+
Diggersby
Rhyperior
B
Ditto
Dracozolt
Gastrodon
Hatterene
Lycanroc-Dusk
Mamoswine
Mandibuzz
Nidoking
Starmie
Steelix-Mega
B-
Cobalion
Staraptor
Sylveon
Togekiss
Volcanion
C-Rank
C
Chandelure
Crawdaunt
Nidoqueen
Ribombee
Tapu Bulu
edit: nihi rise to A instead of A+, hatt can stay B, nidoqueen & chandy drop to C instead of B-
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Just curious, why not just unrank quag? Without stall it's just a mediocre ground type imo.
Stall and balance teams can still utilize Quagsire as a very fringe Z-Happy Hour Jirachi check, as Iron Head literally does 3-4% after Leftovers recovery (making it really hard to flinch Quagsire down, if not just outright impossible) and you just Haze the boost away. Stored Power also doesn't do enough for Quagsire to be super threatened at full health. Soft checks some other Pokemon like SD Bisharp, BU Shifu, boosted Mew and others (due to being able to take a hit because of Unaware and then Hazing), which may otherwise pose a threat to those archetypes.
Hi! I wanted to give some comments about both Tangrowth (a pretty new incorporation in the tier) and Dracozolt. I have been playing around a team that I will be posting in the bazaar although you can see here the paste.
New -> A-
Imo and overall, Tangrowth does the same job as Amoonguss but a bit worse. However, this is not completely true as it presents KOff and EQ that can be really helpful in some match-ups. Moreover, its stats are a bit different compared to Amoonguss: better physical tank but a worse special one. It does not eat U-Turn as easily as Amoonguss either. However, it has some small niche in this tier and I found it quite useful in the team I aformentioned.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1389932446 (here it shows how good it can be).
B+ -> B+/A- (I wanted to test whether this Pokémon deserved some rise)
I really think that Dracozolt is a great Pokémon right now. Its mixed stats can help break through stall that is a good playstyle in the tier and it can create some big holes in any team. The main problem it has is the fact that many good offensive Pokémon in the tier can overcome it and tank a hit and get the KO e.g. MAltaria, Melmetal. However, it is still really good, under sand, against many of the Pokémon of A tier and below.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1391232278 (here it shows how good it can be).
A- -> A
Jirachi presents different buildings available (more defensive with U-turn, Wish, and Stealth Rock or offensive with Z-Happy Hour + Iron Head + Stored Power + Thunder to break through many teams). As it has been previously commented in another thread by N_Mareanie, R1C3M4N, and Nezloe, I think that in the same way as Closyter in OU, its RNG effect is too much insane against many of the Pokémon of the tier. Some can try to wall it but then it has access to both STAB Stored Power and Thunder to break through them (e.g. Skarmory, Alomomola...). Using Inner Focus Umbreon when we all know that its best ability is Synchrony is just self-explanatory that how unhealthy this Pokémon can be in the tier. Finally, Zarude is not a great Pokémon in the tier imo, and spamming it to overcome Jirachi is just crazy. Of course you could go with other Pokémon in stall for example (Shedinja, maybe this could be a cool tech for Jirachi) but the best way to deal with it is with Scarf Krook + HDB Moltres. This core of two Pokémon that have seen high usage recently, can be highly spammed in the upcoming weeks in the case Jirachi does not see a ban.
Next week I want to try out or Jirachi or a TR archetype built. See you all Pokémaniacs
New -> A-Imo and overall, Tangrowth does the same job as Amoonguss but a bit worse. However, this is not completely true as it presents KOff and EQ that can be really helpful in some match-ups. Moreover, its stats are a bit different compared to Amoonguss: better physical tank but a worse special one. It does not eat U-Turn as easily as Amoonguss either. However, it has some small niche in this tier and I found it quite useful in the team I aformentioned.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1389932446 (here it shows how good it can be).
B+ -> B+/A- (I wanted to test whether this Pokémon deserved some rise)I really think that Dracozolt is a great Pokémon right now. Its mixed stats can help break through stall that is a good playstyle in the tier and it can create some big holes in any team. The main problem it has is the fact that many good offensive Pokémon in the tier can overcome it and tank a hit and get the KO e.g. MAltaria, Melmetal. However, it is still really good, under sand, against many of the Pokémon of A tier and below.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1391232278 (here it shows how good it can be).
A- -> AJirachi presents different buildings available (more defensive with U-turn, Wish, and Stealth Rock or offensive with Z-Happy Hour + Iron Head + Stored Power + Thunder to break through many teams). As it has been previously commented in another thread by N_Mareanie, R1C3M4N, and Nezloe, I think that in the same way as Closyter in OU, its RNG effect is too much insane against many of the Pokémon of the tier. Some can try to wall it but then it has access to both STAB Stored Power and Thunder to break through them (e.g. Skarmory, Alomomola...). Using Inner Focus Umbreon when we all know that its best ability is Synchrony is just self-explanatory that how unhealthy this Pokémon can be in the tier. Finally, Zarude is not a great Pokémon in the tier imo, and spamming it to overcome Jirachi is just crazy. Of course you could go with other Pokémon in stall for example (Shedinja, maybe this could be a cool tech for Jirachi) but the best way to deal with it is with Scarf Krook + HDB Moltres. This core of two Pokémon that have seen high usage recently, can be highly spammed in the upcoming weeks in the case Jirachi does not see a ban.
Next week I want to try out or Jirachi or a TR archetype built. See you all Pokémaniacs
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I don’t think showing a replay vs a team with 4 Unranked pokemon showcases how good a Pokemon can be. Bolt Beak spam can seem nice until u realize every team carries at least one ground which dracozolt struggles w vs most of em (hippo, pert, rhyp, even lesser used options like megalix). sand is *decent* as zolt does plough thru most teams that are more offensive, but that’s a huge matchup fish. im interested in seeing more dracozolt replays but it’d be a better idea to show replays vs teams that are more meta, otherwise i just dont see a dracozolt rise happening currently
I really think that Dracozolt is a great Pokémon right now. Its mixed stats can help break through stall that is a good playstyle in the tier and it can create some big holes in any team. The main problem it has is the fact that many good offensive Pokémon in the tier can overcome it and tank a hit and get the KO e.g. MAltaria, Melmetal. However, it is still really good, under sand, against many of the Pokémon of A tier and below.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1391232278 (here it shows how good it can be).
Ngl I completely forgot quag got haze.
Also stall actually being viable fills me with glee, but I wonder exactly how viable it is right now?
Thanks for the answer btw.
Keem
formerly Nezloe
Gonna Nom a mon and it's 10 PM so im not gonna go too hard on the writing so im going to put this into 2 categories, Upsides and Downsides.
Upsides:
UR--> B+ (or C+ if you wanna be like that) Ive been using this mon a ton and honestly its very fun and is a VERY powerful breaker even being able to break some metagame top mons like mega altaria,melm pert etc
(Those calc are from the Zolt spread I use but that should hopefully give you an idea how demonic zolt is like at its full potential)
Not only does it break a lot of the top metagame mons but it also have no guaranteed safe switchins you either get predicted and freeze dryed to death or bolt beak spammed along side that you can't expect to just OHKO this mon with mach punch especially if its defensive mixed attacker,this is because of veil support from Alola tails which I'm pretty veil a lot of mons appreciate (hail chip go haha)
Downsides:
Like every mon acrtozolt has it's weakness and unfortunately this mon is weak to rocks and it cant switch into a lot of fire types or fighting types for that matter even with veil support and even if you are using boots zolt you have to fear a couple mons that you normally wouldn't hit as hard if you were life orb,a good example of this would be melm mainly because it basically beats non LO zolt by clicking double iron bash and oh did I forget to mention choice band scizor? Honestly zolt hates any steel type that can survive its bolt beaks or is faster/hits harder than it. Next I would like to say that.... this mon is incredibly slow lol its not that its mega slow but it gets outsped by a lot of scarfers I mean shit zolt literally loses to choice scarf metagross like what the fuck man (so does hail in general but or you could add volcanian and click flamethrower I guess) overall I feel like the only thing holding zolt back is its speed that's it so maybe on a more realistic note zolt could be C- or D+. But yeah thats all ive got and let me know what y'all think.
Edit: Someone told me if I want to rank an UR mon I have to provide replays sooo uhh those coming soon.
Edit 2: Acrtozolt is also walled by rotom heat :c
Upsides:
UR--> B+ (or C+ if you wanna be like that) Ive been using this mon a ton and honestly its very fun and is a VERY powerful breaker even being able to break some metagame top mons like mega altaria,melm pert etc248 Atk Life Orb Arctozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 44 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 220-261 (52.1 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
248 Atk Life Orb Arctozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Melmetal: 220-259 (46.4 - 54.6%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Those calc are from the Zolt spread I use but that should hopefully give you an idea how demonic zolt is like at its full potential)
Not only does it break a lot of the top metagame mons but it also have no guaranteed safe switchins you either get predicted and freeze dryed to death or bolt beak spammed along side that you can't expect to just OHKO this mon with mach punch especially if its defensive mixed attacker,this is because of veil support from Alola tails which I'm pretty veil a lot of mons appreciate (hail chip go haha)
Downsides:
Like every mon acrtozolt has it's weakness and unfortunately this mon is weak to rocks and it cant switch into a lot of fire types or fighting types for that matter even with veil support and even if you are using boots zolt you have to fear a couple mons that you normally wouldn't hit as hard if you were life orb,a good example of this would be melm mainly because it basically beats non LO zolt by clicking double iron bash and oh did I forget to mention choice band scizor? Honestly zolt hates any steel type that can survive its bolt beaks or is faster/hits harder than it. Next I would like to say that.... this mon is incredibly slow lol its not that its mega slow but it gets outsped by a lot of scarfers I mean shit zolt literally loses to choice scarf metagross like what the fuck man (so does hail in general but or you could add volcanian and click flamethrower I guess) overall I feel like the only thing holding zolt back is its speed that's it so maybe on a more realistic note zolt could be C- or D+. But yeah thats all ive got and let me know what y'all think.
Edit: Someone told me if I want to rank an UR mon I have to provide replays sooo uhh those coming soon.
Edit 2: Acrtozolt is also walled by rotom heat :c
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