Resource National Dex Ubers Viability Rankings [Update #5 at post 188!]

Bobsican

NatDex Ubers TL
is a Top Tiering Contributor
Okay, as some may be aware a mini slate (exact votation details here) was done for some more niche choices that were brought up a bit too recently here or in the Discord server to be properly evaluated, so here's some new additions:

Basculegion:basculegion:: UR -> B-
Venusaur-Mega:venusaur-mega:: UR -> C
Latios-Mega:Latios-Mega:: UR -> C
Chien-Pao:Chien-Pao:: D -> C+
Iron Treads:Iron Treads:: UR -> C

So here's some basic explanations:

:Basculegion:: Last Respects is stupid, who would've thought? But unlike vanilla Ubers this mon struggles more as for one it can't just OHKO defensive variants of :Groudon-Primal: even as the last Pokemon left, really dislikes :marshadow:'s Shadow Sneak, and Swift Swim strategies are dead with primal weather from :groudon primal: and :kyogre primal: removing it by coming in and out, so overall in practice it's a rather cheesy Pokemon as it's limited to the Agility set, it could possibly use more exploration, however.

252 Atk Adaptability Basculegion Last Respects (300 BP) vs. 248 HP / 68+ Def Groudon-Primal: 340-400 (84.3 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is a quite funny calculation.

:venusaur-mega:: Easily the sturdiest answer to :kyogre-primal: in the metagame, Thick Fat and Synthesis healing more while under sun means that it can be used as a soft check to Primal Groudon with Leech Seed too, the lack of utility moves compared to :ferrothorn: is mainly what prevents it from rising higher, but it overall has its niche.

:latios-mega:: Thanks to Zrp200 it has been found out that this Pokemon does weird role compression between pivoting in Flip Turn and more notably Future Sight and Draco Meteor to avoid passivity compared to :alomomola:, however, that's where the niche ends as it's a bit too slow for the metagame, and faces heavy competition with :giratina-origin:.

:chien-pao:: Spammable STABs, rather fast, etc. One would think it'd have deserved to be ranked higher, but besides being hard-checked by :zacian-Crowned:, it needs to Terastallize to apply immediately offensive pressure, having no defensive utility whatsoever or Knock Off also does no favors.

:iron treads:: Basically a slightly better :excadrill:, it loses on the :hatterene: leads (which is the sole reason :excadrill: wasn't sent to UR), but Booster Energy gives it a really high speed tier without a choice lock to ensure Stealth Rock, this complemented with Rapid Spin to annoy other leads, and higher overall bulk let it do its job as a suicide lead better.
 
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I am more or less satisfied with the rankings so far. Here's mine:

S+
:groudon-primal: I feel like PDon got worse. Not that it doesn't deserve its S+ rank, but offensive sets are getting roadblocked by Giratina-O, and PDon doesn't have anything that hugely threaten it worth using over its other moves. Defensive sets are as good as ever.

S
:zygarde-complete: Remains an excellent Pokemon, though I thought that support Arceus would drop Taunt for other moves, which would have been even nicer for Zygarde. Offensive sets are quite good in this metagame, though I'm not a huge fan of LO, as Zygarde's bulk comes from its gargantuan HP.
:eternatus: Never ever deadweight, and its base 130 Speed is helpful as ever. Offensive or Support sets are all excellent. Providing an emergency switch-in to POgre is also welcomed.

S-
:arceus::earth-plate: Nothing has changed for Arceus-Ground, and the metagame is still lacking switch-ins to SD Groundium-Z sets, especially those with Taunt. Pair this with offensive PDon and you can weaken Giratina-O for the other to sweep.
:zacian-crowned: I don't understand why people want to drop this, if anything Zacian-C is thriving in this metagame. Having plenty of switch-in opportunities, Ho-Oh becoming rarer, with entry hazards you essentially need two hits on the opposing PDon before wreaking things, even less if you are running Tera Blast Ground.
:ho-oh: I'm not sold on Ho-Oh being S- rank. Brave Bird is close to mandatory now, otherwise offensive PDon, POgre, Eternatus to name a few can switch in with near impunity. Haven't tried CB variants, though they might be legit as those that I encountered were quite hard to maneuver around.

A+
:yveltal: S ranks should be for metagame-defining threats, and I don't think Yveltal is there yet. It can struggle against more offensive teams, and the resurgence of Arceus-Fairy doesn't help either. LO variants also have what I call the Marsh- syndrome (of course to a lesser extent), either KO or be KO'd as you need all the offensive EVs you can get. This is particularly apparent against POgre, Fire move PDon and Ho-Oh if lacking Knock Off. It is still an amazing Pokemon though.
:kyogre-primal: Not S for me. Its slow speed is a problem, but at the same time, it can soft check a lot of things and a headache to switch into without PDon. A+ is approppriate.
:arceus::dread-plate: I wanted to put this in A and there's definitely a distance between the aforementioned two. Still, it does its usual job.

A
1. :necrozma-ultra:
2. :arceus:
3. :marshadow:
4. :giratina-origin:
5. :salamence-mega:
6. :necrozma-dusk-mane:
7. :arceus::pixie-plate:


I still think Ultra-Necrozma is above Arceus and MegaMence above NDM. Ultra-Necrozma is the most prominent breaker in the metagame, especially if you lack Arceus-Dark. I can agree with Mega Salamence's drop as it doesn't abuse Ho-Oh anymore due to the latter's drop in usage. What I don't agree with is Arceus-Fairy and Giratina-O, they both deserve the A ranking. Giratina-O in particular can raise a few subranks. They are all better than the rest of the A- rank and I consider them core of the metagame. Their defensive and offensive profiles suit a lot of different styles and they are fairly customizable too.

That's all for the detailed thoughts, due to the lack of time. However, I think Gothitelle is worth B+ at least, it can be of incredible value albeit quite inconsistent. Alolomola is not B+, even B is stretching it. A well-built team blows through it and the archetypes it finds itself on rather easily if you keep the tempo of the game, meaning it only gets the opportunity to pass Wishes when given a free switch. Magearna can go down to C+ (and the voting slate is wrong it should be B-), if B- is stall's ranking then Dondozo should probably go there. Lando-T can go up to B-, having used it quite extensively I can say it is legit on offensive teams needing the slow U-Turn while being one of the best initial PDon switch-in (watch out for Overheat), pairing well with the likes of CB Marshadow or Deoxys-A, and chipping Zacians, Extremekillers with Rocky Helmet. Drop Buzzwole as it does nothing against the current metagame. Drop Mega Sableye, Arceus-Steel, Arceus-Rock, Gholdengo and Landorus-I by one subrank, they are not worth using. Happy about Basculegion and Mega Venusaur. C+ for Chien Pao seems high as Zacian, Tera Zygarde, Arceus-Fairy are all strong answers to it. Last but not least, I've already tried a long time ago to play with Iron Treads, and it can give good value to your team. However, I feel like Focus Sash Endeavor is better than Booster Energy. It's better than C and could go to C+ honestly.
 
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: B- -> B+

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has insanely powerful edgequake coverage with amazing offensive stats, great bulk, and good speed. It has one of the best rock moves in the game in diamond storm, good coverage in mystical fire, and can set up either spikes or rocks. It also has one of the best abilities in the game in magic bounce. It shouldn't be in a lower tier than a mostly outclassed screen setter (Grimmsnarl).

Feel free to disagree.
 

Bobsican

NatDex Ubers TL
is a Top Tiering Contributor
View attachment 627592: B- -> B+

View attachment 627594 has insanely powerful edgequake coverage with amazing offensive stats, great bulk, and good speed. It has one of the best rock moves in the game in diamond storm, good coverage in mystical fire, and can set up either spikes or rocks. It also has one of the best abilities in the game in magic bounce. It shouldn't be in a lower tier than a mostly outclassed screen setter (Grimmsnarl).

Feel free to disagree.
This is mere dex information, a good nomination for another rank explains how its traits are overall better or worse at dealing with the current metagame.
 
View attachment 627592: B- -> B+

View attachment 627594 has insanely powerful edgequake coverage with amazing offensive stats, great bulk, and good speed. It has one of the best rock moves in the game in diamond storm, good coverage in mystical fire, and can set up either spikes or rocks. It also has one of the best abilities in the game in magic bounce. It shouldn't be in a lower tier than a mostly outclassed screen setter (Grimmsnarl).

Feel free to disagree.
While magic bounce is a very nice trait to have in ndubers especially since mdia has spikis, mdia is still very frail and oftentimes you dont want your hazardblocker to be oneshot by the primal groudon. I do agree that diamond storm+earth power is a deadly combo but from experience it oftentimes doesnt have the offenses or the defenses to utilize it to the max
 
View attachment 627592: B- -> B+

View attachment 627594 has insanely powerful edgequake coverage with amazing offensive stats, great bulk, and good speed. It has one of the best rock moves in the game in diamond storm, good coverage in mystical fire, and can set up either spikes or rocks. It also has one of the best abilities in the game in magic bounce. It shouldn't be in a lower tier than a mostly outclassed screen setter (Grimmsnarl).

Feel free to disagree.
B- is fine for the moment imo. Fwiw agree with you that it shouldn't be lower than Grimm, but I also think Grimm is a C/C+ mon. The issue with Mega Diancie is that it only really fits on some types of HO and mainly as a suicide lead. Its movepool is good and it is annoying to switch into, but in turn Diancie can't really switch into much of anything itself and requires that turn to mega. If it has it is so frail that even mons it struggles to switch into mons it should on paper such as Yveltal and Ho-Oh. They do enough damage that Diancie can't switch in repeatedly and furthermore it really does not want to risk a burn. It also has the issue of competing for the mega slot. On most teamstyles this isn't an issue, but HO does frequently like to use Mence which it can't if Diancie is used.

I could see Diancie potentially being B in the future if the types of HO teams it fits on rise to the front of the meta. That is the ceiling though as it is limited to specific flavours of HO. When I look at B- Diancie really feels like a C+ mon. Really the only mon I'd say Diancie is better than is Basculegion which I view as a C/C+ mon. You have the stall mons, alternate HO leads (Glimm should be B and Dozo should be B- imo), and Pheromosa which I do not have enough experience using or facing to confidently comment on. When I look at the mons in B+/B they are all significantly more viable than Diancie with the exception of Magearna, which I have no idea how it retained a B rank.
 

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