RU National Dex RU Metagame Discussion

LBN

is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnus
UPL Champion
:sm/sceptile-mega:

Am I the only one getting a bit tired of the respect towards MScep? Now I'm no NDRU expert, but what has been done with MScep honestly cements it as a bottom 3 Pokemon in the current metagame. If you agree, well, I'm not sure what to say, but I will simply applaud your intelligence.

Let's analyze some metagame threats who own by Mega Sceptile below:

:slowbro: :slowking: Both of these fear Mega Sceptile's powerful Grass attacks, but just switch out into your mandatory Grass-resist and go to town. The latter can easily tank a hit and either Chilly Reception or Ice Beam this poor Dragon in return.

:latias: Oh no! Latias in RU??? What has this game become? Maybe relax, and realize that its another way to beat that horrid Pokemon Mega Sceptile. You tank a Dragon Pulse, and then kill with an Ice Beam or Draco Meteor. Quick work

:SANDY-shocks: Sandy Shocks is so good, and sadly it is one of the Pokemon that Mega Sceptile completely blanks. But you shouldn't have it out against it anyway

:tapu-bulu: Bulu is so good, incredibly hard to revenge kill while recovering with Horn Leech. It doesn't help how it also just blanks the hell out of Sceptile and shrugs off any unviable way to deal with it.

Overall, if you dismiss Mega Sceptile's "dominance", you can be trusted.
bait used to be believable (its B now with shifts)
 

hidin

What a kind young man
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
I've been playing and building the metagame a bit recently (as far as September since I did most of my PL's teams RU prep), and I'd like to talk about the playability of the tier, some VR nominations, and things that can be done to improve the tier as well.
Here are the teams I've been using if anyone's interested: https://pokepast.es/68f4627d4158c46d

Playability
I'm gonna be honest, playing the tier is pretty nice. You usually have defined gameplans that can be executed well and don't have the concern of Tera ruining that. However, what I want to address is the Pokemon that make the playability a bit worse, both in game and in the builder.

:mamoswine: :munkidori: :thundurus:
When I build and play, these three Pokemon are all things that I tend to dislike facing. They all have their "checks" but lets be real I don't think any of these things have any reliable and foolproof checks besides Munkidori. To start this rant off, Mamoswine is simply Mamoswine. Genuinely don't know why it is still down here like this thing is absolutely ridiculous. Literally just Slowbro, Buzzwole, and Rotom-Heat deal with Mamoswine reliably, and Rotom-Heat is iffy because it can be hit by Smack Down or crippled by Knock Off or Toxic, along with Buzzwole being crippled by the same exact things besides Smack Down. Preparing for it is a tedious task and once Mamoswine is enabled (which is often not hard to do!) its an absolute migraine. Munkidori and Thundurus are both special Pokemon that are just headaches because preparing for them is a bit nightmarish and can make building linear. Munkidori is an Alakazam Jr. but with a Toxic chance on all of its moves, U-Turn, and while it does have a "worse" typing it still is a competent set-up sweeper and cleaner. Yes you can't be all sets at the same time, but keep in mind all of its "checks" still get fucked over by it besides Tinkaton, which is honestly the most foolproof Pokemon against Munkidori and the only true check, alongside Alolan Muk which honestly is used mostly for this thing. Nasty Plot tears everything to shreds, its speed tier isn't bad at all, it can use Scarf effectively, can use HDB Pivot sets effectively, anything this Pokemon can do it will live up to the expectations you would have for it. Thundurus has been debated on in the past I think and I don't know why the hype died, and if you play NDRU I'm sure you know why I included it on this list. It is too variable and too strong.

TL;DR
Take action on Mamoswine, Munkidori, and Thundurus sometime in the future. Could include Pokemon in past slates like Buzzwole but in all honesty Buzzwole is a healthy presence down here, and its defensive profile is much needed.

VR Nominations
:munkidori: -> A
Already explained above, this Pokemon is totally A rank worthy, could even argue for A+!

:latias: -> A

Finally you guys freed this, has great defensive profile and an excellent offensive one as well but its manageable and healthy.

:scizor: -> B+
I don't see Scizor on A rank level just yet, Buzzwole coming down here kinda revoked Scizor of the defensive Bug-type rank but its still good offensively. Don't like how easy it is to revenge kill with Mega Manectric, Mega Houndoom, and more either. Maybe I might be tweaking but from what I've seen and how I feel, it should be in B+ for now

:haxorus: -> A-
Stallbreaker supreme, SD and DD sets are very effective and its strength cannot be contested.

:quaquaval:-> B
Unsure about this really, its good that it got Knock Off to hit the Slowtwins but it kinda sucks not using Ice Spinner because then you're walled by Tapu Bulu. This definitely has its applications, but I haven't seen enough.

:arcanine-hisui: -> B+
Great wallbreaker with Choice sets and Howl + 3 Attacks, will be putting a dent into anything you throw at it.

:tinkaton: -> A
This does so much and it does so well at it, the utility it provides to any team is invaluable and it being in the same tier as Crobat is kind of silly to me. Totally deserves some more recognition

:muk-alola: -> B-
Great Latias and Munkidori check while also messing with any special clicker that's relevant, Knock Off + Pursuit + Poison Touch has a lot of good uses in the tier right now and it shouldn't be this low when it has a good amount of potential as an AV tank

I don't have anything to drop, don't think anything should be lowered. Maybe put Scream Tail in C+? It's a do nothing Wish blob that relies on teammates to pose as something to respect when you really can throw anything at it and won't have to worry, it does no more than 35 to anything relevant


How To Improve
When it comes to community input and tiering decisions, I think NDRU has been doing it pretty good. What I feel like though is that this NDPL showed the volatility of the tier with everything that can be used, and we can maybe do some things to cut down on that. With the lack of activity in the tier the problem has been unnoticed but as I said NDPL revealed the bonkers things that can be ran down here. However, having to prevent that in a tier of ~100 viable Pokemon may be a bit of a task to handle, but surely it cannot be too much. If I'm gonna be honest its 1 AM and I'm super tired but just know that so far, things have been perfectly fine. Maybe some look over of NDPL replays to find out how to solve the volatility problem can be done, but that's all up to the council.

The tone of this message is not meant to be negative, I want to just provide my thoughts on the metagame and do not have any intention of poking at the tier or the people that play it :afrostar:
 
Last edited:
Shifts are out for December and you know what means: another bucket load of our defensive tools being tossed out to UU! Happy Holidays. Let's hope January is a bit kinder.

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Usage %   | Raw    | %       | Real   | %       |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| 1    | Excadrill          | 20.67045% | 5883   | 14.238% | 4751   | 14.635% |
| 2    | Skarmory           | 19.57245% | 4147   | 10.036% | 3493   | 10.760% |
| 3    | Iron Moth          | 17.81978% | 4461   | 10.796% | 3229   |  9.947% |
| 4    | Iron Treads        | 17.32511% | 4824   | 11.675% | 4097   | 12.620% |
| 5    | Tyranitar-Mega     | 15.53530% | 3412   |  8.258% | 2771   |  8.536% |
| 6    | Slowking-Galar     | 15.16967% | 3782   |  9.153% | 3073   |  9.466% |
| 7    | Clefable           | 14.96286% | 4271   | 10.336% | 3173   |  9.774% |
| 8    | Iron Hands         | 14.93728% | 3461   |  8.376% | 2528   |  7.787% |
| 9    | Ogerpon-Cornerstone | 14.88773% | 2622   |  6.346% | 1879   |  5.788% |
| 10   | Grimmsnarl         | 14.55754% | 3227   |  7.810% | 2820   |  8.687% |
| 11   | Celesteela         | 14.14264% | 3711   |  8.981% | 3018   |  9.297% |
| 12   | Cinderace          | 14.00557% | 4411   | 10.675% | 3558   | 10.960% |
| 13   | Ceruledge          | 13.40179% | 3405   |  8.241% | 2640   |  8.132% |
| 14   | Tapu Fini          | 12.66744% | 3532   |  8.548% | 2858   |  8.804% |
| 15   | Aegislash          | 12.03180% | 5071   | 12.273% | 4087   | 12.590% |
| 16   | Ursaluna           | 10.53619% | 2670   |  6.462% | 2099   |  6.466% |
| 17   | Venusaur-Mega      | 10.01511% | 2305   |  5.578% | 1841   |  5.671% |
| 18   | Thundurus-Therian  |  9.90134% | 2386   |  5.774% | 1906   |  5.871% |
| 19   | Sinistcha          |  9.25025% | 2071   |  5.012% | 1624   |  5.003% |
| 20   | Zapdos-Galar       |  9.21450% | 2578   |  6.239% | 2079   |  6.404% |
| 21   | Hydreigon          |  9.15327% | 3179   |  7.694% | 2480   |  7.639% |
| 22   | Keldeo             |  8.91624% | 3224   |  7.803% | 2521   |  7.766% |
| 23   | Meowscarada        |  8.84240% | 3089   |  7.476% | 2477   |  7.630% |
| 24   | Chansey            |  8.73922% | 2446   |  5.920% | 1906   |  5.871% |
| 25   | Enamorus           |  8.71804% | 2292   |  5.547% | 1625   |  5.006% |
| 26   | Serperior          |  8.54103% | 3585   |  8.676% | 2633   |  8.111% |
| 27   | Bisharp            |  7.62343% | 2506   |  6.065% | 2001   |  6.164% |
| 28   | Beedrill-Mega      |  7.59105% | 4074   |  9.860% | 3178   |  9.789% |
| 29   | Slowbro            |  7.09945% | 1368   |  3.311% | 1116   |  3.438% |
| 30   | Quagsire           |  6.82972% | 1261   |  3.052% | 987    |  3.040% |
| 31   | Hippowdon          |  6.75921% | 1684   |  4.076% | 1512   |  4.658% |
| 32   | Sableye-Mega       |  6.68743% | 1331   |  3.221% | 1208   |  3.721% |
| 33   | Gardevoir-Mega     |  6.60332% | 1854   |  4.487% | 1278   |  3.937% |
| 34   | Gastrodon          |  6.58252% | 1235   |  2.989% | 1046   |  3.222% |
| 35   | Goodra-Hisui       |  6.11133% | 1407   |  3.405% | 1102   |  3.395% |
| 36   | Blacephalon        |  5.47526% | 2659   |  6.435% | 1914   |  5.896% |
| 37   | Skeledirge         |  5.26136% | 2630   |  6.365% | 2031   |  6.256% |
| 38   | Kleavor            |  5.16171% | 2669   |  6.459% | 2381   |  7.334% |
| 39   | Amoonguss          |  4.83086% | 994    |  2.406% | 780    |  2.403% |
| 40   | Talonflame         |  4.73871% | 701    |  1.697% | 603    |  1.857% |
| 41   | Dracozolt          |  4.64319% | 1009   |  2.442% | 736    |  2.267% |
| 42   | Tyranitar          |  4.58098% | 1870   |  4.526% | 1536   |  4.731% |
| 43   | Azumarill          |  4.35522% | 1176   |  2.846% | 830    |  2.557% |
| 44   | Salamence          |  4.22770% | 2456   |  5.944% | 1852   |  5.705% |
| 45   | Ribombee           |  4.13931% | 2550   |  6.171% | 2309   |  7.113% |
| 46   | Magnezone          |  4.07302% | 1679   |  4.063% | 1314   |  4.048% |
| 47   | Moltres-Galar      |  4.06702% | 829    |  2.006% | 584    |  1.799% |
| 48   | Scizor             |  3.78041% | 1618   |  3.916% | 1252   |  3.857% |
| 49   | Latias-Mega        |  3.75406% | 1446   |  3.500% | 1041   |  3.207% |
| 50   | Aerodactyl-Mega    |  3.57544% | 1553   |  3.758% | 1193   |  3.675% |
| 51   | Jirachi            |  3.46955% | 1234   |  2.986% | 921    |  2.837% |
| 52   | Alakazam           |  3.38822% | 1138   |  2.754% | 775    |  2.387% |
| 53   | Latios             |  3.24412% | 799    |  1.934% | 577    |  1.777% |
| 54   | Crawdaunt          |  2.81425% | 745    |  1.803% | 594    |  1.830% |
| 55   | Buzzwole           |  2.79615% | 870    |  2.106% | 662    |  2.039% |
| 56   | Altaria-Mega       |  2.60598% | 1034   |  2.502% | 749    |  2.307% |
| 57   | Golisopod          |  2.54578% | 676    |  1.636% | 551    |  1.697% |
| 58   | Swampert           |  2.49364% | 718    |  1.738% | 623    |  1.919% |
| 59   | Porygon-Z          |  2.48145% | 1541   |  3.729% | 1130   |  3.481% |
| 60   | Empoleon           |  2.47093% | 838    |  2.028% | 728    |  2.243% |
| 61   | Victini            |  2.41138% | 1237   |  2.994% | 959    |  2.954% |
| 62   | Hawlucha           |  2.21684% | 661    |  1.600% | 496    |  1.528% |
| 63   | Blissey            |  2.12848% | 544    |  1.317% | 410    |  1.263% |
| 64   | Zeraora            |  2.07423% | 856    |  2.072% | 670    |  2.064% |
| 65   | Volcanion          |  1.66809% | 502    |  1.215% | 410    |  1.263% |
| 66   | Heracross-Mega     |  1.57889% | 1089   |  2.636% | 779    |  2.400% |
| 67   | Gligar             |  1.57347% | 656    |  1.588% | 574    |  1.768% |
| 68   | Darmanitan         |  1.54738% | 721    |  1.745% | 599    |  1.845% |
| 69   | Mamoswine          |  1.51138% | 458    |  1.108% | 359    |  1.106% |
| 70   | Okidogi            |  1.51082% | 683    |  1.653% | 530    |  1.633% |
| 71   | Indeedee           |  1.42947% | 283    |  0.685% | 227    |  0.699% |
| 72   | Haxorus            |  1.36685% | 592    |  1.433% | 422    |  1.300% |
| 73   | Mew                |  1.33901% | 849    |  2.055% | 647    |  1.993% |
| 74   | Rotom-Heat         |  1.33123% | 414    |  1.002% | 352    |  1.084% |
| 75   | Zoroark-Hisui      |  1.27526% | 1225   |  2.965% | 496    |  1.528% |
| 76   | Hitmontop          |  1.22923% | 485    |  1.174% | 404    |  1.244% |
| 77   | Grafaiai           |  1.22675% | 222    |  0.537% | 178    |  0.548% |
| 78   | Muk-Alola          |  1.19183% | 563    |  1.363% | 484    |  1.491% |
| 79   | Sandy Shocks       |  1.18325% | 414    |  1.002% | 354    |  1.090% |
| 80   | Tapu Bulu          |  1.17358% | 476    |  1.152% | 385    |  1.186% |
| 81   | Nidoking           |  1.11867% | 1061   |  2.568% | 813    |  2.504% |
| 82   | Aggron-Mega        |  1.08707% | 796    |  1.926% | 660    |  2.033% |
| 83   | Terrakion          |  1.08236% | 407    |  0.985% | 299    |  0.921% |
| 84   | Chesnaught         |  1.07510% | 567    |  1.372% | 441    |  1.358% |
| 85   | Latias             |  1.03971% | 378    |  0.915% | 291    |  0.896% |
| 86   | Xatu               |  1.03779% | 476    |  1.152% | 409    |  1.260% |
| 87   | Thundurus          |  1.03224% | 300    |  0.726% | 236    |  0.727% |
| 88   | Gengar             |  1.02083% | 962    |  2.328% | 707    |  2.178% |
| 89   | Arcanine-Hisui     |  1.01485% | 1095   |  2.650% | 864    |  2.661% |
| 90   | Mimikyu            |  0.95608% | 554    |  1.341% | 429    |  1.321% |
| 91   | Typhlosion-Hisui   |  0.93421% | 312    |  0.755% | 233    |  0.718% |
| 92   | Primarina          |  0.93171% | 531    |  1.285% | 411    |  1.266% |
| 93   | Infernape          |  0.90113% | 712    |  1.723% | 580    |  1.787% |
| 94   | Mandibuzz          |  0.88643% | 449    |  1.087% | 358    |  1.103% |
| 95   | Tangrowth          |  0.87085% | 438    |  1.060% | 348    |  1.072% |
| 96   | Gallade-Mega       |  0.86421% | 539    |  1.304% | 398    |  1.226% |
| 97   | Vaporeon           |  0.86180% | 391    |  0.946% | 304    |  0.936% |
| 98   | Galvantula         |  0.84205% | 1153   |  2.790% | 1018   |  3.136% |
| 99   | Latios-Mega        |  0.82308% | 481    |  1.164% | 359    |  1.106% |
| 100  | Feraligatr         |  0.81713% | 567    |  1.372% | 430    |  1.325% |

Raises
:Amoonguss: Amoonguss moved from NDRU to NDUU
:Dracozolt: Dracozolt moved from NDRU to NDUU
:Gastrodon: Gastrodon moved from NDRU to NDUU
:Goodra-Hisui: Goodra-Hisui moved from NDRU to NDUU
:Quagsire: Quagsire moved from NDRU to NDUU
:Slowbro: Slowbro moved from NDRU to NDUU
:Talonflame: Talonflame moved from NDRU to NDUU

Drops
:Latias-Mega: Latias-Mega moved from NDUU to NDRUBL
:Magnezone: Magnezone moved from NDUU to NDRU
:Okidogi: Okidogi moved from NDUU to NDRU
:Ribombee: Ribombee moved from NDUU to NDRU
:Salamence: Salamence moved from NDUU to NDRUBL
 

Runo

Blehhhhhoooooouughhh.....
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Moderator

Mamoswine is banned from NatDex RU
:sv/Mamoswine:
1702245792773.png

Gangsta Spongebob's vote will be added once he votes, but it doesn't effect the outcome.

Mamoswine has been problematic for a while now but with Slowbro's rise to UU we've come to the realization that it's an insanely dumb wallbreaker since it is borderline impossible to wall and quite difficult to offensively check with only Buzzwole being able to switch into it properly and force it out. Everything else is 2HKO'd or outright OHKO'd by Mamoswine's absurd STAB combination and incredibly high attack stat. Other assumed "checks" such as Rotom-Heat and Bronzong couldn't actually check it in reality because of Mamoswine's powerful Knock Off. Offensive checks such as Scizor and Cobalion once again ran into the problem of being unable to switch into it at all (Or in Scizor's case, it could switch in but not without taking massive damage in the process). Fast revenge killers (which needed to have something sacked in order to get them in safely because again, nothing aside from Buzzwole can switch into this safely) such as Mienshao and Zarude also were unable to keep it in check throughout the game since they would be wiped out by Mamoswine's Ice Shard once they were worn down enough. Basically unless you had a Buzzwole on your team, then nothing was safe from its wrath which is obviously insanely constraining on the teambuilder.

Oh wait a second. After some in depth research, I have found another mon that can check Mamoswine! Its immune to Earthquake, is resistant to its Ice STAB, not weak to Knock Off, has great physical bulk, AND can force it out. Lets see our saviour!
1702248775180.png


yea... Mamoswine is broken as hell lmfao.

tagging Kris and Marty to implement this.

Also if you couldn't tell by the banslate georgebowserjr has stepped down from council and Kinzo Ketchum has taken his place. Thank you George for your time with us, and congratulations to our newest council member.
 

Runo

Blehhhhhoooooouughhh.....
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Moderator
:sv/Buzzwole:
If you spent anytime in this tier, you might have noticed the several Fighting-type breakers that tend to roam this tier such as Mienshao, Cobalion, Conkeldurr, Slither Wing, and many more. Buzzwole, as one might imagine, shares a lot of the same aspects with these threats such as it's rather absurd attack stat. A key difference however is that it can pair this absurd attack stat with its equally absurd physical bulk and easily switch into staple physical attackers such as Mienshao or Scizor and threaten heavy damage back with its powerful Close Combat or just stonewall it with Bulk Up variants. But this isn't even the most egregious thing it does; Buzzwole's Choice Band sets are absurdly broken because it barely has any switch-ins to speak of because of it's insane power level and obnoxious coverage options such as Ice Punch, Dual Wingbeat, and the uncommon Earthquake. Many assumed checks to Choice Band Buzzwole need to either fully invest into Physical Defense (such as Nidoqueen and Primarina [They can only switch in once due to a lack of recovery]), predict around its coverage (such as opposing Buzzwole, Gligar, and Crobat) which is easier said than done, or both in Togekiss's case. Another thing that tends to go unmentioned when talking about Buzzwole is the partners it tends to pair with, with Slowking being one of the best partner because of FuturePort enabling Choice Band Buzzwole very well. It's incredibly difficult to call Crobat or even a hard "counter" like Galarian Weezing a good answer when they get wiped off the map by Slowking's Future Sight. It's not just Poison-types that get invalidated as checks; those opposing Buzzwole, Gligar, and literally anything that might be able to switch into it just once can all end up taking heavy damage with Close Combat + Future Sight. This isn't isolated to Slowking either since Munkidori and the rare Assault Vest Reuniclus and Galarian Slowbro can pull off the same thing with it. Being honest I think the idea of Fighting-type breaker + Future Sight is very strong in this tier but Buzzwole is very much the dumbest you can get with this strategy so I think it should be removed from this tier as soon as possible. I know that the defensive sets are incredibly valuable for this tier but this isn't a necessary evil we need to keep. We would be better off long term removing it and cleaning up the mess left behind.

:Conkeldurr::Slither Wing:
"Does this mean Conkeldurr and Slither Wing could be broken too?"

I won't lie, it's very possible that both these mons (especially Conkeldurr) might be too much for this tier as they function pretty much the same as offensive Buzzwole with Conkeldurr hitting even harder than Buzzwole while having even less switch-ins (Yeah you know that Galarian Weezing you tried to switch into Buzzwole? It's not switching into a Guts boosted Facade, you're SOL) and Slither Wing having access to Flare Blitz, Wild Charge, and U-Turn to invalidate any resemblance of a check in Nidoqueen, Primarina, and the former mentions. It's very important to keep these threats on watch after Tier Shifts occur, especially if council seriously considers a ban on Buzzwole.

:sv/Latias:
I'm throwing this next mention on here as an addendum of sorts, since there has been a very insistent person who thinks that Latias is broken and at this point I can understand their concerns. After we unbanned Latias post-Tera, it's been pretty stable since we have a good array of checks in theory such as Tinkaton and Slowking. But recently Latias's main issue is that it's too versatile to reliably check since it has it has a lot of viable sets and each of them can have a lot of variance to them such as the Calm Mind sets. Trying to predict what a Latias is going to be on preview is a really big chore to accomplish because of this and it can have dire consequences for guessing incorrectly.
:Tinkaton::Aggron-Mega: < :Latias::Firium Z:
Sending in your special defensive Steel-type to check it only to end up getting nuked by Calm Mind Z-Mystical Fire is incredibly annoying. Especially if this is your only response to Latias.

:Slowking: < :Latias::Electrium Z:
Sending SpDef Slowking in to scout Calm Mind sets can be ok but if the Latias set is Z-Tbolt or worse Z-Thunder, then it means that your Slowking can't be chipped at all or it will get overwhelmed (even then there is a chance to be completely OHKO'd regardless and Slowking can't do anything to this set unless it is the uncommon Thunder Wave variant). Physdef Slowking can't respond to a boosted Latias at all.

:Togekiss: < :Latias::Firium Z:/:Electrium Z:
Kind of the same thing as Slowking except it struggles to answer CM Mystical Fire Latias unless Togekiss is the defensive Thunder Wave set.
This already feels like a lot for the tier's defensive cores, but we still have some decent revenge killers to deal with this such as Krookodile, Zarude, Mienshao kind of, and more. Although it really feels like you always have to choose something to sack to get them in safely in front of Latias. And on top of that I only think that Krookodile, Mega Absol, and Scizor (set dependent / you need significant chip on Latias) are effective enough because of Pursuit. Otherwise Latias can just switch out and come back later to finish off your team. Overall I just think Latias puts unnecessary strain on the teambuilder since realistically you need to stack checks in order to be fully secure against Latias. I think we could test this a bit more and explore some different sets but to be honest, I've seen enough of it. It's not a healthy presence in this tier to me.

This is a little fluffy so the TL:DR is just ban Buzzwole, seriously consider banning Latias too.


While I'm here I might as well show off my new and improved personal VR and dump some of my favorite teams.

:Tangrowth::Rotom-Heat::Krookodile::Primarina::Cobalion::Reuniclus:- Elaborate "I'm gonna build for every mon on the VR" type of scheming (I gave up after Tangrowth [It was team #3])
:Metagross::Mandibuzz::Swampert::Volcanion::Togekiss::Ogerpon:- Choice Band Metagross BO
:Buzzwole::Slowbro-Galar::Noivern::Krookodile::Volcanion::Tinkaton:- CM Glowbro ft. Noivern
:Scizor::Noivern::Primarina::Nidoking::Rotom-Heat::Zarude:- ToxRock Nido ft. Noivern
:Latias::Mienshao::Crobat::Swampert::Scizor::Overqwil:- Fire-Z Latias Hazard Stack
:Zarude::Zeraora::Slowking::Buzzwole::Empoleon::Rotom-Heat:- NDPL Week 6 ZeraRude BO



Don't treat C- as a real rank cuz most of the mons there suck ass anyways

Also I don't really have a good idea of where Okidogi should be so I didn't rank it. Probably in the B area
 

Runo

Blehhhhhoooooouughhh.....
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Moderator

After 7 days in this new year, our announcement to celebrate are some desired bans for National Dex RU.

Blacephalon and Buzzwole have been banned from National Dex RU!
Tagging Kris and Marty to implement

RU SlateBlacephalonBuzzwoleHydreigonLatias
Gangsta SpongebobBanBanDo Not BanBan
Furret4SSBBanBanDNBDNB
VelcrocBanDNBDNBDNB
dbBanBanAbstainDNB
RunoBanBanDNBBan
Kinzo KetchumBanBanDNBBan
OutcomeBannedBannedNot BannedNot Banned


:sv/Buzzwole:
Self-quoting because I don't really want to re-invent the wheel with ban arguments here.
If you spent anytime in this tier, you might have noticed the several Fighting-type breakers that tend to roam this tier such as Mienshao, Cobalion, Conkeldurr, Slither Wing, and many more. Buzzwole, as one might imagine, shares a lot of the same aspects with these threats such as it's rather absurd attack stat. A key difference however is that it can pair this absurd attack stat with its equally absurd physical bulk and easily switch into staple physical attackers such as Mienshao or Scizor and threaten heavy damage back with its powerful Close Combat or just stonewall it with Bulk Up variants. But this isn't even the most egregious thing it does; Buzzwole's Choice Band sets are absurdly broken because it barely has any switch-ins to speak of because of it's insane power level and obnoxious coverage options such as Ice Punch, Dual Wingbeat, and the uncommon Earthquake. Many assumed checks to Choice Band Buzzwole need to either fully invest into Physical Defense (such as Nidoqueen and Primarina [They can only switch in once due to a lack of recovery]), predict around its coverage (such as opposing Buzzwole, Gligar, and Crobat) which is easier said than done, or both in Togekiss's case. Another thing that tends to go unmentioned when talking about Buzzwole is the partners it tends to pair with, with Slowking being one of the best partner because of FuturePort enabling Choice Band Buzzwole very well. It's incredibly difficult to call Crobat or even a hard "counter" like Galarian Weezing a good answer when they get wiped off the map by Slowking's Future Sight. It's not just Poison-types that get invalidated as checks; those opposing Buzzwole, Gligar, and literally anything that might be able to switch into it just once can all end up taking heavy damage with Close Combat + Future Sight. This isn't isolated to Slowking either since Munkidori and the rare Assault Vest Reuniclus and Galarian Slowbro can pull off the same thing with it. Being honest I think the idea of Fighting-type breaker + Future Sight is very strong in this tier but Buzzwole is very much the dumbest you can get with this strategy so I think it should be removed from this tier as soon as possible. I know that the defensive sets are incredibly valuable for this tier but this isn't a necessary evil we need to keep. We would be better off long term removing it and cleaning up the mess left behind.

:sv/Blacephalon:
Blacephalon is one of the new drops in January which didn’t really had any business in UU due to the presence of tier king M-Tyranitar as well as faster, stronger and bulkier threats such as Cinderace, Iron Hands, Iron Moth, Alakazam and more. Now in RU? A lot of these answers are not present at all, allowing all 3 of Choice Specs, Choice Scarf and Sub Calm Mind Ghostium Z to thrive in a meta with such a limited amount of “counterplay”. Bulky waters such as specially defensive Swampert can only switch into it once or just not at all in Empoleon and Primarina's case. Other potential checks such as Blissey can end up getting invalidated by Trick or turned into setup fodder by Sub Calm Mind. This means that, for the most part, the only true defensive checks to Blacephalon consisted of Hydreigon and Cyclizar. While these are pretty good in the current metagame, both come with their own issues. For starters, Hydreigon isn't particulary bulky nor does it actually want to invest into bulk traditionally. But it needs a good amount of defensive investment in order to check it which cuts into either it's speed or its power. Both of which make Hydreigon less effective into other threats in this metagame such as Latias. Cyclizar on the other hand is pretty fine, you just need to slap on an Assault Vest and you're good to go. But similar to defensive Hydreigon, it doesn't do the best job at offensively pressuring it and other threats like Thunderus. Overall being forced to go either defensive Hydreigon (not a good set) or Cyclizar in order to handle it is incredibly constraining for this tier.


Some other mentions:

:Latias: As stated in the last post, Latias has been a very versatile threat in this metagame which makes it incredibly dangerous when trying to predict any one of its sets (and their subsequent variants which can be fine tuned to beat whatever wall it needs to). However with high Tinkaton usage, solid checks in Togekiss and Primarina, and revenge killers such as Hydreigon, Zarude, and Krookodile, there is a still some counterplay left to work with. Additionally a split vote on Latias and some high animosity among the playerbase means that there is a very high chance we vote on Latias again.

:hydreigon: We voted on Hydreigon because Nasty Plot sets are still extremely difficult to contest defensively. Other sets such as Choice Specs and what looks to be its flagship offensive utility sets are also very dangerous to account for, especially with the amount of coverage options (like Earth Power, Fire Blast, and Flash Cannon) and Z-crystals (like Darkium, Dragonium, Firium, Groundium, etc) it has to choose from.

We didn't vote on these but there was some legitimate concerns about these.

:Arctozolt: Arctozolt and Slowking has been a very dangerous core in this tier since Arctozolt has very few switch-ins in general, and mons that can switch into it are either not great in this tier (such as Mega Steelix) or lose to its strong Freeze Dries or Blizzards (such as Quaqsire and physically defensive Hippowdon respectively). What's stopped us from being concerned before was that Arctozolt was just tied to Slowking or some shitty auto snow setters such as Vanilluxe or Abomasnow, but with Alolan Ninetales dropping Arctozolt can be enabled far easier and additionally enjoys the fast Aurora Veils that it recives in order to make it quite hard to revenge kill. Even with this, it's not super hard to remove it with your Choice Scarf user, with common ones in Mienshao, Krookodile, Hydriegon, and Munkidori all being capable at removing Arctozolt.

:Beedrill-Mega: Yeah so it turns out that Mega Beedrill isn't a shitty niche C-ranker and is actually very threatening with it's incredibly powerful U-turns, making it turn into a fantastic pick on volt-turn teams. Unlike in UU, it can also get more value in its coverage moves such as Drill Run in order to obliterate threats such as Tinkaton and quickly wear down walls such as Mega Aggron and the nicher Mega Steelix and Doublade. Other moves such as Knock Off is great at crippiling walls such as Gligar and Crobat, while helping to force progress against Mandibuzz and non-Bugium Z Scizor. It also functions pretty well as a Pursuit trapper, being able to remove threats such as Latias and the now banned Blacephalon. But one can't ignore its obvious flaws in its typing and bulk. Being really weak to hazards in a tier with mediocre hazard control is not great and any chip Mega Beedrill takes is very bad for it since it has very limited switch ins to begin with.

:Quaquaval: Quaquaval has started to pick up some steam recently with Slowbro's rise to UU and the uptick of offensive teams to take advantage of since its strong STAB moves in Close Combat and Aqua Step alongside great coverage options (like Triple Axel, Knock Off, U-Turn or Brave Bird) and great variety in sets (Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Swords Dance, Utility, etc) makes it hard to defensively account for in the teambuilder, making it similar to Latias in its versatility. Unlike Latias, Quaquaval is actually way harder to revenge kill because of Aqua Step's speed boost letting it outpace every Choice Scarf user in the tier at +2 and generally bulky enough to survive blows from common revenge killers such as Choice Scarf Krookodile.
 
I'm ranking the UR'd guys so we have some semblance of where they stand before the shifts and the ladder goes live.

:dipplin: --> C

I guess this does have a niche as a very specially defensive answer to something like Thundurus or a physically defensive answer to Tapu Bulu, Zarude or Zeraora, so it wouldn't be completely useless. But normally you have a hard time justifying this over Tangrowth and other similarly Bulky Grasses.

:cresselia: --> C

Again, I see niche defensive uses for Cress as a Trick Room setter or a last-ditch pivot into Fightings here. Doesn't pull off either of them that proficiently, though.

:ribombee: --> C+/B-

Nobody has used Ribombee... yet. The presence of key Pokemon immune to Webs like Latias, Hydreigon and Crobat is an issue, which makes it tricky for tour users. I expect this thing to work much better on the ladder since Webs is good at farming points, and we have a few decent abusers of it.

:Enamorus-Therian: --> C+

This is a cheesy HO pick IMO. The biggest thing holding this back is that it's a fairy type that's worse at answering Dragon types than something like Togekiss. At least CM + Iron Defense sets are somewhat interesting.

:Polteageist: --> B-

It's controversial, but I can see myself running this on Psyspam or on very fast-paced offensive teams. Priority is fairly common and it is answered by Pokemon like Hydreigon and Zarude, but it can be pretty scary when faced under the right set of circumstances. If anything, the more disappointing part is that it's outsped by every scarfer at modest and thuds into Mandibuzz and Blissey. However, these limitations don't scream C-rank to me, given what this thing can do to unprepared teams.


:fezandipiti: --> B-

I theorymonned AV on this as a crazy Thundurus check (technician Icy Wind!), but it would most likely run specially defensive sets with Roost. Fez is in a good spot right now since not many Hydreigon are willing to run Flash Cannon, as they'd like to hit Tinkaton as hard as possible. However, if I'm laddering with Fez, I'm running a secondary drei check too since that flash cannon weakness is brutal. I think B- is a good spot for it, given the things it shares its ranks with and the utility it can offer.

:gligar: --> B

B might be hard for a Pokemon like Gligar, but its passivity has always held it back. Additionally, competition from Hippowdon and Swampert has effectively phased out defensive Stealth Rocks sets. However, Defog and Spikes, on a slow, Physically Defensive pivot, offer unique niches that few teams can freely pass up.

:Ogerpon: --> B/B+

I'm putting Ogerpon this high for the utility that Scarf sets bring. Not only do you outspeed common Scarfers like Mienshao, Zarude and Sandy Shocks, but you also force your own pressure with Spikes. Additionally, you have a strong Ivy Cudgel and nice coverage in Superpower, Knock Off, Stomping Tantrum and Play Rough. There's 4MSS, but Scarf Ogerpon is fairly customizable and is a Pokemon better suited to filling cracks rather than being the de facto scarfer.

:arcanine-hisui: --> B+

I'm a big K9 believer. Not many things can afford to switch-in to Banded Head Smash or Flare Blitz. That wall-breaking prowess alone elevates it above the B mons and even a few B+ mons. That's all there is to K9, aside from a meh Boots set (I'm bc I built this for NDFL) and a nice scarf set. But as Bruce Lee said "I fear mon that can click one move 1000 times, than a mon that can click 1000 moves once".

:munkidori: --> B+/A-

Still a good Pokemon, although Latias being released into the tier gave it both competition and a check. I think scarf is the best set personally, but Specs and Nasty Plot can put in work once you manage to control the speed.

:Okidogi: --> B+

Fighting types look solid in the metagame. Being a fighting type AND checking other fighting types is a nice suite of attributes to have in the metagame. Bulk Up is the better set, but I can see Choice Band putting in work.

:azumarill: --> A

If Crawdaunt can get itself to A-, I think Band Azu should be able to go a bit higher. Without Amoonguss in the tier, Band is harder to slow down. Choice Band sets and Belly Drum sets are both solid and add to the mind games. I've also used AV to stave off Hydreigon and Lati.

:beedrill-mega: --> A-

Bit of a controversial ranking, but Mega Beedrill is a reliable momentum generator in the metagame atm. A standard set of U-turn/Pjab/Drill Run/Knock is all it needs to harass most teams. However, techs like Pursuit and Protect help elevate its game by punishing Psychic Types from switching and scouting scarves (respectively)

:Magnezone: --> A-

Steel-type usage is at an all-time high, with Tinkaton and Scizor being common. Zone is able to eliminate it for strong partner Pokemon like Hydreigon and Mega Beedrill, enabling them to be more menacing. Specs and Air Balloon are probably the more consistent options, but you can also run Scarf.

:hippowdon: --> A

Best defensive ground in the tier hands down.

:hydreigon: --> A+

Very few things really like taking on Specs Hydreigon from the get-go. However, Specs isn't the only thing this can pull. Nasty Plot sets have the potential to act as a strong balance breaker. Defog/Rocks utility sets leverage its excellent typing to switch in on stuff like Slowking, and Scarf can clean games when needed.

:Quaquaval: --> A+

Utility sets are an option, but nothing can withstand Sword Dance + Flyinium-Z. Banded and Scarf are other options that place immediate pressure on teams (even punishing defensive plays for those anticipating the SD set). It has a centralising presence but is not an S-rank candidate since it's pretty tough to fit on a lot of teams.

:scizor: -->A+/S-

This is a conservative ranking. Scizor is arguably an S-rank candidate, but a few things hold it back at the moment. Choice Band has been the worst since RU Alpha, but on the other hand, Swords Dance Scizor is still an excellent Pokemon right now, with few Pokemon able to switch into Knock Off. I like Scizor's ability to function as a defensive pivot with reliable recovery, but Tinkaton offers excellent role compression right now, one of the few things that can punish Boh Lati and Drei. A very strong Pokemon overall, but I don't think it has the same metagame presence as the following Pokemon.

:Latias: --> S+

Although this hasn't been voted on yet, expect tiering action at some point. CM Latias is a centralising offensive threat requiring teams to have at least 2 answers to it. Electrium and Dragonium Z to nuke would-be answers like Slowking and Aggron-Mega, meaning you need to tip-toe around a boosted Lati. Not to mention coverage options in Aura Sphere and Mystical Fire punishing would-be checks like Scizor, Mega Steelix, Tinkaton and Krookodile. I'm not saying there's 0 counterplay, but Latias can potentially overwhelm them, depending on the set.

Other Pokemon:

:muk-alola: --> B-

Solid check to Latias and Munkidori and can soft-check Hydreigon. Not a fan of the volt-turn MU though.

:togekiss: --> B

It helps play around many fighting types in the metagame right now. Solid typing for the Hydreigon MU as well. With its performance in recent tours, I think this nom is warranted.

:azelf: :iron-jugulis: :pidgeot-mega: --> B

The qualities that made them good aren't in the same demand atm. Jugulis and Pidgeot Mega face more competition and are burdened by the increasing power level. Azelf could stay B, but I don't like running this over Latias. Even without Latias, Azelf is prone to being revenge by most of the common scarfers.

:primarina: --> B+

With Drei here, this Pokemon is a lot more justifiable to run.

:arctozolt: --> B+
Hail is putting solid results, and I got to give Arctozolt its due. It does struggle with certain scarfers, but it's a pretty scary Pokemon to face when you're not prepped for it.

:absol-Mega: --> B

Feels weird to drop this when Lati is in the tier, but I've been increasingly disappointed with this Pokemon. If I wanted a pursuit trapper, I'd run Scarf Krook or Band Scizor (depending on the team).

:slither-wing: --> A-

Part of why this was ranked so lowly was because we underestimated this thing's coverage or maybe Mega Hera skewed our perspective. Being a fighting type with spammable STABs in U-turn and First Impression are valuable in this metagame. Not to mention that this thing punishes Slowking for being the "de facto" Fighting check.
 

Kin+ak (✧∇✧)

I COULD BE BANNED!
I know no tera holds it back, I know its spdef sucks, I know it has no recovery, but are you sure orthworm doesnt have a place in the vr? pretty decent counter to scizor, mega bee, muk-a, actually decent Spikes setter, breaks many offensive combos and a counter to many stuff that dont run fighting- or fire-type coverage. Can run rocky helmet + spikes, double Hazards, ironpress, sand tomb shenaningans, coil iron tail, Can Very Well cover weaknesses of a team imo. Especially considering it is a pseudo steel-flying more viable than bronzong.
 
I know no tera holds it back, I know its spdef sucks, I know it has no recovery, but are you sure orthworm doesnt have a place in the vr? pretty decent counter to scizor, mega bee, muk-a, actually decent Spikes setter, breaks many offensive combos and a counter to many stuff that dont run fighting- or fire-type coverage. Can run rocky helmet + spikes, double Hazards, ironpress, sand tomb shenaningans, coil iron tail, Can Very Well cover weaknesses of a team imo. Especially considering it is a pseudo steel-flying more viable than bronzong.
The issue with Orthworm is that you it's just outclassed by all of the bulky steels in the tier, mainly M-Aggron and Cobalion, who fulfill the same role but a lot better as they don't have as many exploitable weaknesses.

Orthworm has the basic trades of a bulky steel + more (such as a Ground Immunity and Spikes) but this is far from good due to it's weaknesses of being passive, having a really exploitable SpD stat and being really slow which, for a steel type, isn't really that great. The Pseudo Flying type is also middling when you're still threatened by most Ground types anyway (The Nidos or Sandy Shocks for example) and you still take Spikes damage.

M-Aggron is slow and takes up a mega slot but it's FAR bulkier in both sides and has more than just Body Press to make progress with (better coverage in Fire Punch, a decently strong Heavy Slam and Toxic), Cobalion is a much more threatning presence that also has a good speed tier, compensating the low special defense and neutrality to Psychic and Fairy with other good trades (Like being a really good pivot into physical attackers like Zarude).

I could mention more but i'll limit it to a short saying, Orthworm is not just outclassed but also struggles in fulfilling it's role as a bulky Steel anyway due to lacking the same good trades that makes the others more splashable or fit for the meta.
 

Runo

Blehhhhhoooooouughhh.....
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Moderator
:sv/Quaquaval:
Quaquaval has been banned from NatDex RU!
Tagging dhelmise and Marty to implement
VotersQuaquaval
Gangsta SpongebobDo Not Ban
Furret4SSBban
Velcrocdnb
dbban
Runoban
Kinzo KetchumBan
OutcomeBanned

I won't lie to you guys, we've been meaning to ban this since NatDex USA vs RoW ended and now we've finally gotten around to pulling the trigger. Quaquaval being broken is no surprise to the regulars of NatDex RU; on the surface it doesn't seem like a problem but Aqua Step in addition to a powerful Close Combat and Brave Bird can easily wipe out teams. At times there have been staunch comparisons to Gyarados and Salamence with how insanely fast it can snowball with Aqua Step and Moxie boosts.

Below is essentially a list of Pokemon that check it in theory, but ultimately can fail in practice unless they position into it perfectly (this often requires them to switch into Quaquaval when it clicks Swords Dance or to come in off a sack, since chip damage from switching into it can significantly hinder their ability to handle it).

:Primarina::Slowking:(:Mantine::Milotic::Quagsire:)
Bulky Water-types such as Primarina and Slowking can only respond to Quaquaval if they are running max defense sets, otherwise they threaten to get vaporized by a +2 Supersonic Skystrike. This requirement is "ok" for Slowking (although it would generally like to run special defense to keep Latias and others such as NIhilego and Nidoking at bay), but generally terrible for Primarina since it needs investment into special defense in order to check Latias and Hydreigon easier since that's a major part of its niche. Mantine and Milotic are in a similar boat, where they need to be max defense in order to handle it. However Mantine is exceptionally rare in this tier due to how hard it is to build with for a multitude of reasons like passiveness and competition from other bulky Water- and Flying-types, whereas Milotic is a little more common but doesn't have much to stop Quaquaval aside from fishing for Scald burns and Haze (both of which are essentially forcing a trade because it has to take massive damage from a +2 Close Combat in order to do that). Reminder that all of the aforementioned Pokemon need to be kept at peak condition or they can get removed by +2 Supersonic Skystrike (most of, if not all of, these calcs against them are 80-100%+ damage) as mentioned before. Additionally if Quaquaval has claimed a kill and grabbed a Moxie boost before hand, then they just can't check it at all. Finally the last bulky Water-type, Quagsire, can actually serve as a decent answer to Quaquaval since Unaware blocks the boost from Swords Dance. However it runs into two key problems: The first being that Quagsire only fits well on stall teams so standard playstyles are still sort of left out to dry, the second is that Quagsire really doesn't like dealing with Quaquaval's other sets such as Choice Band and Choice Scarf with the former being able to 2HKO Quagsire with Close Combat and the latter being able to pivot into a partner like Ogerpon or Zarude in order to harass Quagsire and eventually wear it down. Quagsire like a lot of the other Quaquaval "check" also needs to be kept at peak condition in order to answer it properly (Close Combat into Supersonic Skystrike still does heavy damage to it, just narrowly avoiding an OHKO).

:Crobat::Latias:
Fast defensive checks such as Crobat and Latias can somewhat act as answers, but they are incapable of switching into a +2 Supersonic Skystrike and can get invalidated by Aqua Step's speed boosts. Using these to check Quaquaval means that you have to essentially hard switch into Quaquaval before it sets up with Swords Dance or you lose. Not impossible to do, but sets such as Choice Band makes it really difficult to accept that gamble everytime since Crobat can't switch into a Band Aqua Step while Latias hates taking a Band Knock Off. Set variants to Swords Dance sets, such as Triple Axel instead of Brave Bird, are also a nightmare for Crobat and Latias to handle.

:Togekiss:(:Scream Tail::Sylveon::Weezing-Galar:)
Defensive Fairy-types such as Togekiss are kinda decent checks to it but it's important to keep in mind that they are also tasked with dealing with other scary threats, such as Hydreigon and Latias, making it really hard to conserve their health in order to handle Quaquaval since (as said before) it threatens to deal massive amounts of damage after a Swords Dance boost. Two interesting Pokemon to note are Scream Tail and Galarian Weezing. On paper they seem like pretty exceptional checks to Quaquaval but in reality they falter a lot. Scream Tail for instance is faster than and has enough bulk to take a +2 Super Sonic Skystrike, but it is incredibly passive so a healthy Quaquaval can simply shrug off the hit and break it next turn. Galarian Weezing on the other hand has no means of recovery outside of Pain Split, meaning it can't afford to check any of Quaquaval's partners such as Zarude as too much chip results in Galarian Weezing being removed by a +2 Supersonic Skystrike. So Galarian Weezing has to be played very conservatively to a detrimental extent.

:Tangrowth::Tapu Bulu:(:Chesnaught::Roserade:)
Now the reason why I'm saving all of these rather bulky Grass-types for last is to really bring the point across that a specifc Quaquaval set is what breaks the tier (Hint: What is a Flying-type 190 BP Z-move after a Swords Dance boost called?). If you somehow couldn't guess it by now, a +2 Supersonic Skystrike from Quaquaval oblierates all of these Grass-types (Brave Bird alone can just wipe these guys off the map), they really have no real response to that move and aren't checks to Quaquaval in the slightest because of that. Roserade can kinda make an attempt if it's an fast utility variant, but if Quaquaval got any Aqua Step boosts before hand then it's game over.
I've mentioned +2 Supersonic Skystrike 8 times including this mention.

Now since the defensive counterplay is pretty terrible, maybe the offensive counterplay is better. Below are a list of offensive checks before and after it gets an Aqua Step boost (spoiler alert: the amount of counterplay changes pretty drastically if it gets a boost).

:Crobat::Hydreigon::Iron Jugulis::Latias::Manectric-Mega: :Mienshao: :Munkidori::Ogerpon::Pidgeot-Mega::Sandy Shocks::Sceptile-Mega::Thundurus::Zarude::Zeraora:(:Arctozolt::Azelf::Noivern::Roserade::Starmie::Tornadus:)
Before an Aqua Step boost, you can clearly see that a lot of fast Flying-, Electric-, Dragon-, and Grass-types are able to pressure Quaquaval. The vast majority of them are capable just outright OHKO Quaquaval from full. That being said, a lot of these checks cannot switch into it at all and need to safely be brought in, which is easier said than done because they no longer become checks is Quaquaval gets a single Aqua Step boost off and outpaces all of them.

:Hydreigon::Iron Jugulis::Latias::Mienshao::Munkidori::Ogerpon::Sandy Shocks::Zarude:(:Arctozolt:)
After Aqua Step, ~50% of the offensive counterplay becomes invalid since they can't effectively handle its rather brutal stab combo in addition to Brave Bird. The remaining counterplay that exists are all Choice Scarf users, Iron Jugulis and Arctozolt. Now luckily these strong speed control options are more than capable of revenge killing it, but if it gets another Aqua Step boost (which it can grab easily while it finishes mauling a defensive check like Crobat or Togekiss) then all hope is practically lost and the only thing that could ever hope to stop it is Ditto which is insanely rare and only fit well on really specific fat and stall teams.


The opposing Quaquaval used Aqua Step!
The opposing Quaquaval used Swords Dance!
The opposing Quaquaval used Aqua Step!
The opposing Quaquaval surrounded itself with its Z-Power!
The opposing Quaquaval unleashes its full-force Z-Move!

The opposing Quaquaval used Supersonic Skystrike!
[The opposing Quaquaval's Moxie]
The opposing Quaquaval's Attack rose!

The opposing Quaquaval used Aqua Step!
[The opposing Quaquaval's Moxie]
The opposing Quaquaval's Attack rose!

The opposing Quaquaval used Close Combat!
[The opposing Quaquaval's Moxie]
The opposing Quaquaval's Attack rose!

The opposing Quaquaval used Aqua Step!
[The opposing Quaquaval's Moxie]
The opposing Quaquaval's Attack rose!

The opposing Quaquaval used Aqua Step!
[The opposing Quaquaval's Moxie]
The opposing Quaquaval's Attack rose!

In some other news,

NatDex RU has won the spotlight ladder slot for Feburary! Be sure to play it to your hearts content during the month.

We have also created a dedicated VR team consisting of our current council members and Adriyun, Lupla, and Rafadude, all are pretty competent players and builder and keep up to date with metagame affairs so we felt it was warranted on bringing them on to work with us. Expect a VR update sometime after things settle from Feburary's shifts.

Also unofficially the watch-list is kinda looking like this:
:Conkeldurr::Hydreigon::Latias::Mienshao::Slither Wing::Thundurus:
Try these guys out in the near future, tell us your thoughts on them!
 
Last edited:

Runo

Blehhhhhoooooouughhh.....
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Moderator
VR Update time!

:Latias:Latias: NEW -> S
:Scizor:Scizor: NEW -> S-
:Hydreigon:Hydreigon: NEW -> A+
:Beedrill-Mega:Beedrill-Mega: NEW -> A
:Hippowdon:Hippowdon: NEW -> A
:Azumarill:Azumarill: NEW -> A-
:Ninetales-Alola:Ninetales-Alola: NEW -> A-
:Ogerpon:Ogerpon: NEW -> A-
:Okidogi:Okidogi: NEW -> A-
:Arcanine-Hisui:Arcanine-Hisui: NEW -> B+
:Munkidori:Munkidori: NEW -> B+
:Gligar:Gligar: NEW -> B
:Magnezone:Magnezone: NEW -> B
:Fezandipiti:Fezandipiti: NEW -> B-
:Talonflame:Talonflame: NEW -> B-
:Enamorus-Therian:Enamorus-Therian: NEW -> C+
:Polteageist:Polteageist: NEW -> C+
:Ribombee:Ribombee: NEW -> C
:Cresselia:Cresselia: NEW -> UR
:Dipplin:Dipplin: NEW -> UR

:Slither Wing:Slither Wing: B -> A+
:Slowking:Slowking: A -> A+
:Tinkaton:Tinkaton: A- -> A+
:Aggron-Mega:Aggron-Mega: A- -> A
:Conkeldurr:Conkeldurr: A- -> A
:Tangrowth:Tangrowth: A- -> A
:Volcanion:Volcanion: A- -> A
:Arctozolt:Arctozolt: B -> A-
:Empoleon:Empoleon: B+ -> A-
:Slowbro-Mega:Slowbro-Mega: B+ -> A-
:Togekiss:Togekiss: B- -> A-
:Absol-Mega:Absol-Mega: B -> B+
:Basculegion-F:Basculegion-F: B -> B+
:Krookodile:Krookodile: B -> B+
:Primarina:Primarina: B -> B+
:Registeel:Registeel: B- -> B
:Scream Tail:Scream Tail: B- -> B
:Milotic:Milotic: C+ -> B-
:Suicune:Suicune: C+ -> B-
:Sylveon:Sylveon: C+ -> B-
:Braviary-Hisui:Braviary-Hisui: C -> C+
:Ditto:Ditto: C -> C+
:Typhlosion-Hisui:Typhlosion-Hisui: C -> C+
:Weezing-Galar:Weezing-Galar: C -> C+

:Sandy Shocks:Sandy Shocks: S- -> A
:Blissey:Blissey: A -> A-
:Crawdaunt:Crawdaunt: A- -> B+
:Nihilego:Nihilego: A -> B+
:Sceptile-Mega:Sceptile-Mega: A- -> B+
:Azelf:Azelf: B+ -> B
:Houndoom-Mega:Houndoom-Mega: A- -> B
:Iron Jugulis:Iron Jugulis: B+ -> B
:Lycanroc-Dusk:Lycanroc-Dusk: A- -> B
:Pidgeot-Mega:Pidgeot-Mega: B+ -> B
:Slowbro-Galar:Slowbro-Galar: B -> B-
:Zygarde-10%:Zygarde-10%: B -> B-
:Bronzong:Bronzong: B- -> C+
:Noivern:Noivern: B- -> C+
:Regidrago:Regidrago: B- -> C+
:Scolipede:Scolipede: B+ -> C+
:Steelix-Mega:Steelix-Mega: B -> C+
:Aerodactyl:Aerodactyl: C+ -> C
:Klefki:Klefki: C+ -> C
:Pawmot:Pawmot: C+ -> C
:Porygon2:Porygon2: C+ -> C
:Raikou:Raikou: C+ -> C
:Rhyperior:Rhyperior: B- -> C
:Torterra:Torterra: C+ -> C
:Toxtricity:Toxtricity: C+ -> C
:Araquanid:Araquanid: C -> UR
:Arcanine:Arcanine: C -> UR
:Articuno:Articuno: C -> UR
:Barbaracle:Barbaracle: C -> UR
:Basculegion:Basculegion: C+ -> UR
:Celebi:Celebi: C -> UR
:Cetitan:Cetitan: C -> UR
:Darmanitan:Darmanitan: C -> UR
:Doublade:Doublade: C+ -> UR
:Durant:Durant: C+ -> UR
:Espeon:Espeon: C -> UR
:Flamigo:Flamigo: C -> UR
:Gardevoir:Gardevoir: C -> UR
:Glalie-Mega:Glalie-Mega: C -> UR
:Guzzlord:Guzzlord: C -> UR
:Heracross:Heracross: C -> UR
:Iron Thorns:Iron Thorns: C+ -> UR
:Maushold:Maushold: C -> UR
:Oricorio-Pom-Pom:Oricorio-Pom-Pom: C -> UR
:Orthworm:Orthworm: C -> UR
:Shuckle:Shuckle: C -> UR
:Slurpuff:Slurpuff: C+ -> UR
:Tatsugiri:Tatsugiri: C -> UR
:Vanilluxe:Vanilluxe: C -> UR
:Venomoth:Venomoth: C -> UR
:Wo-Chien:Wo-Chien: C -> UR

Most Drastic/Important Changes:

:Latias:
Latias' versatility in the tier is just without equal to be honest. Choice Scarf, Specs, Life Orb, and Calm Mind are all fantastic sets and fairly annoying to guess from preview. Calm Mind specificly adds another layer onto this since the mon gets to basically pick and choose it's defensive counterplay with variants like Firium Z to remove Tinkaton and Tapu Bulu, Electrium Z to nuke Slowking, and even rarely Aura Sphere and Alluring Voice to take down Hydreigon and Krookodile without having to use Draco Meteor. Its speed tier and good bulk also makes it quite annoying to take down after it boosts with Calm Mind. Ultimately Latias is a mon that has counterplay but is so good that it just forces you to stack checks to it in order to properly respond to it.

:Scizor:
Scizor is just such an elite pivot in the tier and an even more elite Sweeper with Swords Dance. Bulky Swords Dance Scizor with Bullet Punch + Knock Off is just insanely difficult to answer defensively and really limits the amount of offensive checks you can use against it. Ignoring the more egregious things, Scizor is also really valuable defensively since it keeps down a lot of the strong breakers and sweepers (like Tapu Bulu, Mega Beedrill, Arctozolt, etc) with it's good bulk, typing, and strong priotity Bullet Punches.

:Slither Wing:
So Slither Wing is literally just Buzzwole except it just throws defensive value out the window completely. Dangerous to switch into, priority makes it an annoying revenge killer, solid enough speed tier to just obliterate nearly every defensive mon in the tier bar Gligar. Buzzwole leaving the tier means that it's also more free to run Wild Charge so good luck trying to check it with your Crobat or Togekiss.

:Arctozolt:
Snow teams are busted with Arctozolt at the helm since hard checks to Arcozolt just...don't exist in this tier. You're really just limited to using your Choice Scarf user or a priority mon like Conkeldurr and Scizor hoping that you wear it down enough.

:Togekiss:
Togekiss offers pretty cool role-compression: being a strong answer to Fighting-type breakers like Mienshao, and Okidogi, checking Dragon-types like Latias and Hydreigon, and easily handling the likes of Tapu Bulu, Ogerpon, and Zarude. Its respective Heal Bell, Defog, and Para-spreading roles are also very valuable since combinations such as Heal Bell + Defog allows it to easily check Swampert and Hippowdon while Thunder Wave variants offer a way to shut down all of the above threats in a pinch. Nasty Plot sets are also a very strong balance breaker thanks to it's high bulk and power letting it easily setup and remove threats like Mega Aggron by flinching them to death, very hard for defensive cores to respond to. The classic Choice Scarf sets are also pretty cool to use for even further role-compression and you can even slot Trick in order to shutdown things like Tinkaton and Blissey.

:Sandy Shocks:
Sandy Shocks being anywhere close to S-rank had to be cope from when Tera was still legal because post-Tera, it just doesn't get the same results. To make it even worse threats such as Hippowdon, Hydreigon, and Latias returning to the tier and mons such as Tangrowth and Swampert getting more popular, there's is just a lot less room for Sandy Shocks to maneuver in this tier.

:Nihilego::Lycanroc-Dusk::Scolipede:
These guys suffer from "Scizor-existing Syndrome". They are sweepers that just can't respond well to it in the slightest. Lycanroc-Dusk and I guess Scolipede you can kinda make a case for since they can be really scary with their power and coverage after they setup, and Nihilego can too! Except for the fact that it specifically is stonewalled by most of the common steel-types, gets felled by priority users in Azumarill, Conkeldurr, and Scizor, and is heavilly annoyed by special walls like Slowking and Blissey

:Houndoom-Mega:
At this point, Mega Houndoom Bulky Offenses have become irrelevant thanks to Hydreigon existing, so now it's only really seen on Hyper Offense teams. It's STAB combo is kinda better (I think) and it's faster than Latias, but the weakness to Stealth Rock is crippling. It's also kinda just really frail and the typing doesn't help much defensively in the metagame so it's hard to setup on things like Hippowdon or even things like Slither Wing (First Impression just OHKOes it lol).

:Steelix-Mega::Rhyperior:
Yeah these two are kinda weird ground-types. The role compression they offer is really specific to the point where a lot of the times you are better off using another mon. Mega Steelix for instance is kinda incapable of hard checking a single mon in the A-ranks bar like Arctozolt or Crobat, but hey that typing comes in handy when you have to deal with Nihilego and Necrozma I guess. And it's a Steel-type that doesn't insta-lose to Magnezone. Rhyperior checks even less than Mega Steelix and is pressured by even more threats, namely SD Scizor, Slither Wing, Tapu Bulu, Slowking, Conkeldurr, etc. And the things it should be checking in theory (i.e Electric-types) can easily carry coverage to neutralize it.

:Every C/C+ mon that got unranked:
No clue what the hell was going on with the last two VRs when we got to the C-ranks but this time we had an interesting sitdown and significantly cut the size of C-rank. Long story short: the mons that got removed are all memes and rarely do anything of value anymore. I would type out why each unmon is terrible but the final draft would probably end up being longer than the rest of the post (maybe when I have time later, someone remind me). Anyways sorry @GuzzlordFan93
 
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Usage for March is out. Let's take a look at the stats!

Code:
Hippowdon moved from NDRU to NDUU
Hydreigon moved from NDRU to NDUU
Latias moved from NDRU to NDUU
Magnezone moved from NDRU to NDUU
Scizor moved from NDRU to NDUU

Altaria-Mega moved from NDUU to NDRUBL
Gallade-Mega moved from NDUU to NDRUBL
Goodra-Hisui moved from NDUU to NDRU
Metagross moved from NDUU to NDRU
Pecharunt moved from NDUU to NDRU
Torkoal moved from NDUU to NDRU
Tyranitar moved from NDUU to NDRU
1709332250534.png


Good news is that we got Metagross back. Not that it was a particularly good Pokemon here. I guess Scizor, Latias and Hydreigon rising is a blessing in disguise. Magnezone rose because Scizor rose.

The two Pokemon I'm most worried about are Tyranitar and Pecharunt. Both of them can be long-term issues. Band Ttar Knock-Off has very few switch-ins, and it pursues Slowking and frees up all the crazy fighting types here. Pecharunt is an interesting Pokemon here as I do think that Malignant Chain + Hex can break the tier with Nasty Plot. Still, at the same time, it is a valuable mon into ALL the Fighting types here thanks to that beautiful typing (though it fears Future Sight). I do see the value in keeping this long-term, however.
Expect many Tyranitar + Slowking + [INSERT FIGHTING TYPE] cores here.

As for the other drops, Hisui Goodra is good for defence. Torkoal is not worth it because Drought is banned.

Those are my brief thoughts on the drops, let me know if you guys have any comments on these metagame changes
 
Alright, time to throw my hat in the ring. Stall is not just viable, it is downright great in this meta, and multiple of it's potential mons are not included on the VRs. I got to second on the ladder exclusively spamming a single stall team, and only didn't go for first because of the extreme ladder wait times. I would like to nominate the following mons to be included on the VRs


:Quagsire: How is this one not on here? It's pretty much the only viable Unaware user on the block, and with it's ability to spike and recover it is very much viable on stall.

:Quagsire: --> C+

:Florges: An Alternative wishing wall to Scream tail, what it lacks in HP and physical defence it makes up for in it's monstrous special defence, better defensive typing and better movepool, including options like toxic and defog, both of which are immensely useful on a stall team.

:Florges: --> B-

:Mantine: A great Defesive water type with reliable recovery that comes with the added benefit of defog and water absorb, next to the obligatory scald. Mantine posesses a powerful defensive profile that lets it defog and scald many times during a game, fishing for scald burns. Mantine also gets great use out of it's secondary STAB in hurricane, as it has natural synergy with defog, this allows mantine to whittle down many prospective breakers that wish to kill it and it's team. This means that it provides a way to deal some actual damage while not letting down the stall team defensively.

:Mantine: --> C+

:Umbreon: And Finally, Umbreon, this one, while present on the VRs, is in my opinion simply ranked too low, it provides superb support for both bulkier balance and stall teams, with both wish and heal bell being great options, and STAB foul play ensuring that it is not simply a passive, do-nothing pokemon, being able to counter many physical attackers present in the tier.

:Umbreon: --> B

Thank you for listening and I hope everyone has a great day.
 
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