votes from the VR council are in progress. we are hoping to have it out soon but may need to redo some things after the most recent ban wave. same reason sample teams are a bit delayed btw
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Resource National Dex OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers
- Thread starter Solaros & Lunaris
- Start date
I've heard that balance is perceived as a worse/less used playstyle rn compared to other playstyles like ho bo and even stall. Is this true? if so why is this the case, is it a player base thing as in lack of experimentation with the style, or does the archetype as a whole just not do well against the meta rn?
Others might disagree with me, but I don't think this is necessarily true that balance is worse. I find that balance teams can function fairly well in the current meta. The main issue is just that it can be very restrictive when you're trying to build one. Fitting an unaware mon onto the team somewhere feels almost like a necessity which immediately limits your options, although we did get 3 new unaware mons this generation which is great. Normally I would save the unaware mons for stall or semi-stall and just use a reliably fast revenge killer for balance. However, with Cyclizar HO teams being common in the meta ditto is completely out of the question. Any other scarfer besides infiltrator dragapult might have to take a hit while breaking substitute before it can revenge kill and so most unaware mons end up being a safer pick in this role.
The other problem with balance is the limited defensive core compared to bulkier playstyles. Each unaware mon only counters a specific pool of mons so if the opponent has something that beats it and defensive tera isn't an option, you only have maybe 2 other defensive mons to fall back on compared to potentially 4 or 5 others with a stall team. As a result, I feel like balance has way less flexibility and room to experiment in the builder. These are the main problems I think balance players will have to engineer ways of overcoming as the meta develops.
VR should be up at some point over the weekend, sample teams will follow shortly after apologies for the wait!
Why doesn't pursuit hit the target that is switching out with Shedtail? (cough cough me trying to stop Cyclizar from freely passing) Is it because Shedtail is like a Baton pass or what?
yes
im ngl it being this restrictive is why i think most people regard it as worse, rather than the actual playstyle as a whole being bad. furthermore what i happen to see (my own experience) is that most balance teams would much rather be either bos or semistalls a lot of the time, they work as balance but would work much better if they were other playstyles
Gholdengo makes balance bad because it blanket checks so many defensive Pokemon by virtue of typing + ability. Chansey and Amoongus are hard countered by Gold Man, while others like Cresselia, Clefable, Blissey, Tangrowth, Milotic need to run subpar moves just to do anything.
Winning is an uphill battle when 30-50% of your team is countered by one splashable Pokemon.
Winning is an uphill battle when 30-50% of your team is countered by one splashable Pokemon.
when you need shadow ball and confide chansey/blissey...
Why is torn-t considered to be good, as it is put in the S tier on the VR? Most of the time it just seems really passive or frail (defensive sets), and np sets, while very dangerous in certain situations, can be stopped with proper counterplay. Regen is a great ability, but with knock offs and hazards flying all around it seems like a frail bird.
u dont swap into the knock offs. while bulk wise its only decent, regen with fast turn mskes it much more bulky than u think. passive is defenitely not it, even with just standard fog boots koff cane and turn are more than enough, i cant think of even one mon that is fine with taking koff or cane, and do that repeatedly with hazards too. you are right that plot can be stopped with proper counterplay but u forget to mention th e best part about it: it can just heal whatever chip it takes with regen and come in and break again. i think its a player use issue if the mon doesnt feel bulky or threatening, especially now with stuff like zapdos neutered.
Sorry to say I never actually used torn this gen :( Ima try it out. Just my personal experience with opposing torns seems... weak. Still not really convinced that it is S teir though
Because recovery moves got nerfed, alternate recovery is at a premium. Torn-T is the only viable offensive Regenerator and like Lando it has a lot of utility alongside high BP moves.
S-Rank has historically been awarded to flexible glue like Lando-T and Heatran. No surprises Torn is viewed so highly.
We don't have control over what sets get added to the calc IDT; that's a better question for this forum.
I'm pretty sure that the sets added to the damage calcuator are all of the Smogon sets.
common sulo L
Really enjoying the meta after the last ban wave. But Im wondering how you guys are handling the current top dog right now in Dragapult? Im seeing so many variations in Pult sets, and they are all really effective and can at least pick off 1 or 2 of my mons while crippling or putting dents throughout. The sheer surprise factor of what it's gonna have makes me so scared most of the time, not knowing how I should react.
Z-Ghost continues to be the death of me just because of the surprise and difficulty scouting, and it has little risk in just throwing it out. Banded/Specs on Dragon/Ghost STAB puts huge dents in my team and secures kills. Wisp aids in crippling whatever switch-ins I might go to. Very great move coverage gives it answers to everything; Flamethrower, Sucker Punch, Thunderbolt, Hydro Pump. Gaining momentum with ease because of fast U-turns. Even more "gimmicky" sets like Substitute can get away easily as I just wasnt prepared.
All of these are just amplified by its crazy speed tier. It can get away with so much, with little risk, while being so versatile. Truly in a class of its own.
So how do you guys teambuild to prepare for Pult? He is great at facing many team styles in so many different ways. Is it possibly up for a ban? And if so, would it be suspect test or just straight banned? Im not too familiar with that.
Z-Ghost continues to be the death of me just because of the surprise and difficulty scouting, and it has little risk in just throwing it out. Banded/Specs on Dragon/Ghost STAB puts huge dents in my team and secures kills. Wisp aids in crippling whatever switch-ins I might go to. Very great move coverage gives it answers to everything; Flamethrower, Sucker Punch, Thunderbolt, Hydro Pump. Gaining momentum with ease because of fast U-turns. Even more "gimmicky" sets like Substitute can get away easily as I just wasnt prepared.
All of these are just amplified by its crazy speed tier. It can get away with so much, with little risk, while being so versatile. Truly in a class of its own.
So how do you guys teambuild to prepare for Pult? He is great at facing many team styles in so many different ways. Is it possibly up for a ban? And if so, would it be suspect test or just straight banned? Im not too familiar with that.
im ngl while i think pult is amazing and deserves a test, i dont think its the most banworthy / broken mon rn, and POSSIBLY not even the first ghost in line personally.
i think the sets are really not that hard to predict, once at preview u can narrow it to an extent and while playing and seeing both it and its teammates it shouldnt be that hard. rn i rate the pursuiters very highly so while specs is terryfing its not unbeatable, and u also have great strong ghost resists like mtar, gambit, ting lu, and some sub-resists like clod and garg which deal w specs v well. dd is another beast but its not that unpredictable, ive really only been caught off guard once when lydia used uturn dd (which is not a common set by any means, and the first time ive ever seen it), but even then at the worst case iirc i managed to rk it since it wasnt sub. that + the fact that it gets much much less setup opportunities nowadays, no more spdef mono scald pex which is a free sub dd, blobs are gone, corv is gone not that hard to prevent setup. and bulkier teams w more setup opportunities have stuff like una skele and garg to beat it easily. wisp is a set ive grown to like recently but its damage output being so poor unboosted is really notable, and idrt that set is that big personally, moreso just annoying and a healthy set imo. specs > dd are what makes it busted from my own personal experience, but i think it might be manageable + there are other things which are much worse rn imo
Is there or will there be a place to report NatDex specific mechanics bugs? Our current practice in the bugs thread is to mark mechanics that aren't defined ingame as "not a bug" or "won't fix" because it should require approval from NatDex mods/council/whatever, and there are some pretty weird interactions that I'm certain aren't intended (Blessing/Pursuit interaction, for example).
Bugs can be posted in this thread (so natdex sqsa)
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So, I checked all instances of the use of the word "mega" on this thread and I couldn't find what I'm going to ask.
So... Who and why did they decide mega evolutions coudln't terastallyze? If we go by in-game lore, I think I remember they said both mega evolving and the use of Z-moves requires a lot of energy from the pokémon, and so it's logical that the same pokémon can't do both (and it is still impossible because they need to be holding different items). But if I recall correctly, terastallization just consists of the trainer bathing the pokémon with the energy contained in a special orb. The orb needs to be recharged with energy so you can use it again, so it makes sense you can only terastallyze one pokémon per battle. At the same time, since it doesn't require an effort from the pokémon, and they don't need to be holding any special item, then it makes all the sense in the world that a mega evolution should be able to terastallyze.
Was it because mega evolutions were considered too powerful? I don't think so, since in the national dex metagame from gerenation 8, lots of megas were either uber or UU, and we've got lots of very powerful non-mega pokémon who are able to terastallyze. The other day, in the metagame discussion thread, I even read some people say megas are beginning to be left behind because they can't terastallyze. And I think it's a pity, I always liked the gimmick a lot, even if it is not equitable with all pokémon like Z-moves, dynamax or terastallization are.
Well, I talked a lot and didn't say that much. The point is, I wanted to know why.
So... Who and why did they decide mega evolutions coudln't terastallyze? If we go by in-game lore, I think I remember they said both mega evolving and the use of Z-moves requires a lot of energy from the pokémon, and so it's logical that the same pokémon can't do both (and it is still impossible because they need to be holding different items). But if I recall correctly, terastallization just consists of the trainer bathing the pokémon with the energy contained in a special orb. The orb needs to be recharged with energy so you can use it again, so it makes sense you can only terastallyze one pokémon per battle. At the same time, since it doesn't require an effort from the pokémon, and they don't need to be holding any special item, then it makes all the sense in the world that a mega evolution should be able to terastallyze.
Was it because mega evolutions were considered too powerful? I don't think so, since in the national dex metagame from gerenation 8, lots of megas were either uber or UU, and we've got lots of very powerful non-mega pokémon who are able to terastallyze. The other day, in the metagame discussion thread, I even read some people say megas are beginning to be left behind because they can't terastallyze. And I think it's a pity, I always liked the gimmick a lot, even if it is not equitable with all pokémon like Z-moves, dynamax or terastallization are.
Well, I talked a lot and didn't say that much. The point is, I wanted to know why.
the origin is that m-ray can't mega evolve if it holds a z crystal. so it was decided to not allow more than one regional mechanic
Isn't a pokémon allowed to use a Z-crystal and terastallyze at the same time, though? Or am I mistaken?
It's just a programming limitation; the button to Mega Evolve is in the exact same area needed to Terastallize. I assume you can't have both (I'm not 100% sure on this, you can ask a programmer but this is what I remember hearing).
assuming you mean on the same pokemon, your mistaken, mechanics are limited, meaning a pokemon that can mega cant use a z move / tera, a mon that is using a z move cant mega / tera, and a pokemon that has terastaled cant mega evolve or hold a z move. all of them are generational mechanics so they all take the same spot