Metagame National Dex Monotype Suspect 4: Sweet but Psycho

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maroon

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RMT & Mono Leader



Suspect Test Reasoning
Tapu Lele is a devastating special attacker that can set Psychic Terrain, taking its attacks to the next level. Its on two fantastic types: Psychic and Fairy. Psychic teams obviously appreciate Psychic Surge increasing the power of their STAB attacks and making them immune to priority attacks such as Bisharp's Sucker Punch. While Fairy teams might not be able to take full advantage of Psychic Terrain, they still appreciate it stopping priority attacks like Mega Scizor's Bullet Punch.

Tapu Lele mainly runs sets such as Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, and Calm Mind. Choice Scarf Tapu Lele is a fantastic revenge killer, hitting with great power under Psychic Terrain, and is a great late-game cleaner. Choice Specs Tapu Lele can 2HKO the entire metagame between its STAB and coverage moves. Calm Mind sets tend to be Tapu Lele's most dangerous due to the level of flexibility they have: Ghostium Z targets usual checks like Aegislash; Electrium Z can electrify Skarmory, Celesteela, and Corviknight out of the game; Fightinium Z can take on Steel-types such as Ferrothorn, Melmetal, and Heatran; and Psychium Z can be used as a nuke. Additionally, Tapu Lele has Hidden Power Fire to target Mega Scizor as another means of breaking past its natural checks. After these specific threats are gone, Tapu Lele can freely spam its Psychic Terrain-boosted STAB attack.

While Tapu Lele does have all these positive traits, it also has an average Speed tier for an offensive Pokemon, allowing it to be revenge killed by faster threats such as Garchomp, Greninja, Cinderace, Mega Aerodactyl, and Zarude. In addition to this, Tapu Lele is reliant on its Terrain to be as successful as it is, and there are a ton of Terrain setters on a variety of different types, making it hard to keep Psychic Terrain up.

Overall, while Tapu Lele has a few downsides, they are heavily outweighed by its positive traits, and the National Dex Monotype council has decided to unanimously suspect it!

Suspect Test Information
  • This suspect test will count towards the new tiering contributor badge!
  • Reading this is mandatory to participate in the suspect test. The voting requirements are a minimum GXE of 78 with at least 50 games played. In addition, you may play 1 less game for every 0.2 GXE you have above 78 GXE, down to a minimum of 30 games at a GXE of 82. Also, doing more than 50 games to reach 78 GXE will suffice.
  • Tapu Lele will require a 60% majority of voters in favor of banning it in order for it to be banned from National Dex Monotype.
    GXEminimum games
    7850
    78.249
    78.448
    78.647
    78.846
    7945
    79.244
    79.443
    79.642
    79.841
    8040
    80.239
    80.438
    80.637
    80.836
    8135
    81.234
    81.433
    81.632
    81.831
    8230
  • You must use a fresh account that begins with the given prefix for this suspect test. That prefix is NDMTL. For example, I could signup and qualify with the name NDMTL maroon.
  • You may not impersonate or mock another user with your account name. If there is any slight hesitation, you're probably better off picking a different name. We reserve the right to null your voting requisites if you are found impersonating or mocking another user with your account name. Moderator discretion will be applied.
  • If you are found trying to manipulate voting requisites in any way, you will be met with a harsh infraction. Manipulating voting requisites ranges from faking your screenshot to asking another user to forfeit.
  • The Pokemon that's being suspect tested, Tapu Lele, will be allowed on the National Dex Monotype ladder for the next two weeks so that we can properly assess its position in the metagame.
  • This suspect test will go on for two weeks. It will last until Thursday, September 9th @ 11:59 PM EST (GMT-4).
 

maroon

free palestine
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Team Rateris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnus
RMT & Mono Leader
Suspect Test Rules
  • You are required to make sure that whatever you are arguing for is in-line with the Tiering Policy Framework. If what you're arguing for isn't, there's a very high chance that your post will be deleted.
  • No uninformed one liners or posts;
  • No discussion on other potential suspect tests;
  • No discussion on the suspect test process.
  • Your posts are expected to be respectful, please do not insult anyone.
  • If you fail to follow these rules, you may be infracted without any prior warning.
If there are any questions, feel free to PM myself or Mateeus. If there are any questions about the moderation of this thread, you should feel free to PM the moderation team.

Tagging Kris to implement this on the ladder. Thank you!

This thread will be locked for 24 hours so that everyone can collect their thoughts.
 
Hello, so ive played a bit with some samples and ive seen that lele hits really hard but also gets killed really quickly.
I dont think it needs a ban even if it hits hard since it has no bulk and cant take a lot of hits. (Sorry if i wasnt supposed to talk here)
 
hello, i played a lot with tapu lele and i didn't see a diference of power big enough to ban lele and her deffense stats are pretty bad, plus if you ban lele you let no options to fairy tipes to defend himself of counters like poison, and you give scizor an easy win because the bullet punch is 0HKO to almost every fairy tipe.
 

maroon

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I am speaking for myself, these are my personal opinions and not the councils. I will personally be voting to ban Tapu Lele, due to its flexibility in the builder whether you want to take on a specific matchup with a certain z-move nuke, destroy things with choice specs, or have an amazing revenge killer with choice scarf; all these Tapu Lele sets are truly amazing. While I believe choice specs and choice scarf are great sets, for me what pushes it past the breaking point is its customization with z-moves. Access to calm mind and a variety of different z-moves to take on prominent metagame checks as listed in the suspect reasoning make Tapu Lele too much for National Dex Monotype.

Hello, so ive played a bit with some samples and ive seen that lele hits really hard but also gets killed really quickly.
I dont think it needs a ban even if it hits hard since it has no bulk and cant take a lot of hits. (Sorry if i wasnt supposed to talk here)
Tapu Lele dying quickly is not a result of the Pokemon being bad, but rather you are probably mismanaging it. Tapu Lele isn't supposed to stay in when its threatened out, any Pokemon can seem bad if you just sack it. Also while its physical bulk isn't that great its not bad either, Tapu Lele's special bulk is fairly good actually so I do not know where this is coming from. Again the reason is being suspected is because of its attacking prowess and ability to utilize different sets to take on multiple different threats like Celesteela with Electric Z, Aegislash/Galarian Slowking with Ghostium Z, or just a general nuke with Psychium Z.

hello, i played a lot with tapu lele and i didn't see a diference of power big enough to ban lele and her deffense stats are pretty bad, plus if you ban lele you let no options to fairy tipes to defend himself of counters like poison, and you give scizor an easy win because the bullet punch is 0HKO to almost every fairy tipe.
What exactly do you mean you didn't see a lot of power from Tapu Lele, what have you been using? Also for the defense stuff look above to my answer from the last quote. Also tiering never favors a types viability if a Pokemon is broken. Plus, Fairy can still beat Poison and Steel teams without Tapu Lele; Klefki + Mega Diancie put in work vs Poison and Klefki + Azumarill can do well vs Steel with enough hazards spikes on their field.
 

dex

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I have not yet decided how I am going to vote, but I am leaning towards ban. I agree with the above in that Tapu Lele can run such a diversity of sets with such strong immediate power that the act of scouting itself can be detrimental to a team. Its Calm Mind set is particularly difficult to deal with, especially behind screens. Its breaking power is absurd at +1, and it has just enough bulk to come in on faster threats that it can force out even if they have coverage for it. Simply put, it is very difficult to punish Tapu Lele for clicking Calm Mind because of its immense initial offensive pressure.
 
I dont think it should be banned, as yes, quite frankly it ohkoes quite a few pokemon, but if you think about it, scarf gren can just, kill it with gunk shot, although it can potentially miss and lele can switch out, and with a base 75 def, a bullet punch from scizor KO'es it, but the thing thats holding it back, is the effect of psychic terrain, but it still does not have a 100% answer to bulky steel type matchups like stakataka (FOR EXAMPLE) and if were talking about ground matchups, it can still, as a bonus, kill fairies including tapu lele, because of one pokemon in particular, excadrill, as iron head can knock it out instantly and outspeed even scarfed lele as sand rush doubles the speed.
Calc: 252 Atk Excadrill Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 342-404 (121.7 - 143.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Overall, I feel that it shouldnt be banned as, yes, it is a very, VERY good mon that can hit like a truck, but there are other mons that can just put a stop to lele then and there.
(I might have gone off the rails a little bit)
 
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