Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion

Thank you to council for voting on and removing those 3 problematic elements! All of Ape, Wake and Shed Tail were making it very difficult to build bulkier teams without pigeonholing into specific builds over and over (both Ape and Wake were especially restrictive). I'm interested to see the directions in which teams take now that these threats have been banned.

Which does beg the question, and I'm curious what others think, what Pokemon get better as a result of these bans? Are there any mons that get worse because of these bans? I'm also interested to hear what Pokemon people find underrated in the metagame right now.
 

Slowpoke Fan

Slow?
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Thank you to council for voting on and removing those 3 problematic elements! All of Ape, Wake and Shed Tail were making it very difficult to build bulkier teams without pigeonholing into specific builds over and over (both Ape and Wake were especially restrictive). I'm interested to see the directions in which teams take now that these threats have been banned.

Which does beg the question, and I'm curious what others think, what Pokemon get better as a result of these bans? Are there any mons that get worse because of these bans? I'm also interested to hear what Pokemon people find underrated in the metagame right now.
The original evolution of my profile picture certainly gets better - two attackers that it could not check are gone and it now has a much easier time handling water type or physical attackers in the tier. I find future sight support to be pretty important for breaking fat/balance/stall teams that do not employ the services of Mega Sableye, so Slowbro should see a rise in usage after these bans.
 

adem

her
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Thank you to council for voting on and removing those 3 problematic elements! All of Ape, Wake and Shed Tail were making it very difficult to build bulkier teams without pigeonholing into specific builds over and over (both Ape and Wake were especially restrictive). I'm interested to see the directions in which teams take now that these threats have been banned.

Which does beg the question, and I'm curious what others think, what Pokemon get better as a result of these bans? Are there any mons that get worse because of these bans? I'm also interested to hear what Pokemon people find underrated in the metagame right now.
gking loses a big niche in checking wake (unfortunately), random stuff that popped up like bulu and malt also become unviable again. it frees up faster mons forced to run toxic on fatter teams, ie mandi (which unfortunately wont be that viable at all anymore really), torn, lando, gliscor.

bulkier teams in general also get much better from all 3, expecting to see fat / fat balance squads a top 3 playstyle with these bans due to how consistent they are, especially since they arent as shoehorned into specific structures / mons. ho loses a big enabled (which personally i didnt find broken but i dont mind it gone since it adds nothing lol), and becomes a lot less “consistent” farms vs ladder, and switching actually has to be thought out without shed tail providing a free on.

clefable is a hella slept on mon rn i feel, it lures and knocks everyone really and rocks up quite consistently, and is also a niche check to garg bc of mg. does rlly well into these fat hstack structures that will get better as well due to mg, heres a cool team i have w it https://pokepast.es/924623cd9a2776ad
 

Slowpoke Fan

Slow?
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gking loses a big niche in checking wake (unfortunately), random stuff that popped up like bulu and malt also become unviable again. it frees up faster mons forced to run toxic on fatter teams, ie mandi (which unfortunately wont be that viable at all anymore really), torn, lando, gliscor.

bulkier teams in general also get much better from all 3, expecting to see fat / fat balance squads a top 3 playstyle with these bans due to how consistent they are, especially since they arent as shoehorned into specific structures / mons. ho loses a big enabled (which personally i didnt find broken but i dont mind it gone since it adds nothing lol), and becomes a lot less “consistent” farms vs ladder, and switching actually has to be thought out without shed tail providing a free on.

clefable is a hella slept on mon rn i feel, it lures and knocks everyone really and rocks up quite consistently, and is also a niche check to garg bc of mg. does rlly well into these fat hstack structures that will get better as well due to mg, heres a cool team i have w it https://pokepast.es/924623cd9a2776ad
It only beats curse/iron defence Garganacl with calm mind sets though, which takes away knock off/stealth rock/thunder wave from its moveset. It's certainly a good Pokemon, but it's really constrained by 4MSS in this metagame (also think that Garganacl is ridiculous, it has an answer to almost everything - even mould breaker Pokemon can't break through it with the introduction of ability shield).
 

adem

her
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It only beats curse/iron defence Garganacl with calm mind sets though, which takes away knock off/stealth rock/thunder wave from its moveset. It's certainly a good Pokemon, but it's really constrained by 4MSS in this metagame (also think that Garganacl is ridiculous, it has an answer to almost everything - even mould breaker Pokemon can't break through it with the introduction of ability shield).
curse sets it struggles with but id it doesnt need cm, you just spam moon and knock its lefties, press does like 30 at +6 and u beat assuming lefties are kept (idk how well u do without it but u probably still do decent), ive only rlly experimented with knock rocks (broken), but i assume smtg over rocks like twave also works.
 
Should the future of tera be reviewed again? I know we had a suspect test 2 months ago, but so far opinion on tera has only soured further, and right now it's near-unanimously viewed as unhealthy for the meta by the top players. Even last time, tera narrowly escaped ban.

So the question is, how long should be taken for action against tera? Its removal has become more of a when than if, so how much longer should it delay if it's inevitable? I don't think Pokemon Home additions will make tera better (it will probably make it worse, with Ursaluna, Basculegion, Enamorus and Sneasler itching to go crazy).

I implore the council to consider the future of tera again, because it's started to affect enjoyability through its contribution to the instability of the meta.
 
Thank you to council for voting on and removing those 3 problematic elements! All of Ape, Wake and Shed Tail were making it very difficult to build bulkier teams without pigeonholing into specific builds over and over (both Ape and Wake were especially restrictive). I'm interested to see the directions in which teams take now that these threats have been banned.

Which does beg the question, and I'm curious what others think, what Pokemon get better as a result of these bans? Are there any mons that get worse because of these bans? I'm also interested to hear what Pokemon people find underrated in the metagame right now.
Well, all I wanna say is that that tier list I made was basically the end of an era.(here is the link of my tier list: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-metagame-discussion.3710848/page-12#post-9584772). Both HO and Sun took massive hits, which were coincidentally the 2 best archetypes in the tier. The Shed Tail ban means that Cyclizar and Orthworm are dropping like a cliff from OU(mark mt words). Cyclizar does still have a solid movepool outside of Shed, With U-Turn, Knock Off, Rapid Spin, Regenerator is a good ability for a utility mon, as showned by Tornadus-T, and while 95 atk and spatk arent amazing, it does have high base power move like Draco Meteor, Outrage and Overheat for some damage. Still, this may not be enough to keep it in OU, but it does seem like a good mon in the lower tiers, depending on where it would end. Orthworm however, doesnt have the same luxury. It was with Shed Tail and it was niche, you can imagine now without it. I personally think HO could keep its thrown, but it isnt going to be as obvious, as Rain now can give it competition. Sun on the other hand, is not likely of keeping its 2nd place, as Rain can now manage it a lot easier with Wake out of the picture. Sun can still beat Rain, but Rain just has the edge over it now. It may be around 3rd to 5th best between BO and Fat. Speaking of Fat, slower and Bulkier teams definetly enjoy the banning of Annihilape, as they no longer need to fear of chipping the monkey, so those teams may see an increase as well(gamer but swag rejoices). But in all honestly, I like these changes, as now it seems to be closer to a more balanced metagame.
 
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Okay then, Ladies and Gentlemen, woopers of all ages, It is time for the moment We've all been waiting for... The 1st Gen 9 National Dex Team Playstyle "Archetype" Tier List...

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For those who don't know what an "archetype" or in simplier words, a team playstyle, strategy and synergy are two of the most important aspects of competitive Pokémon teambuilding. The foundation of both of these things is your chosen playstyle; the most stripped down, basic way your team is meant to function. Think of these as rpg or fighting game characters, were they all function differently, and thus have different strategies in order to win. So after being around here since day 1 and have 2 teambuild guides as well(go check them out if you can) I felt like doing an overall tier list would be a good idea. Still, I didn't wanted to do it just by myself for a more concrete tier list based on the natdex community, so I asked a few players who also have similar or more experience than myself. So to not keep you waiting... let's just jump into it...


I'll be naming each playstyle or achetype(you tell which word you prefer) from worst to best. Now this doesn't mean you shouldn't play them just based on the rank, even if your favorite playstyle being at the bottom of the barrell, as long as you know the matchup, and prep the team well, you can beat even higher ranked teams if skilled enough, so without further a do, lets get started...

C tier
:pikuh:

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Stall(12th place)

What ever happened to Smogon's beloved? Well, this one suprises almost no one. Stall is that ever hated playstyle where the player slowly but surely cripples you with chip damage until it eventually wins that way. A frustrating playstyle to deal with, but also similarly frustrating to play, as you have to think your plays carefully. Every single component of stall is crucial, from its teammates to its hazards and status. Some of the main ways to cripple the opponent include Toxic, hazards, sand chip, burns, knock off and even pp stalling till the opponent eventually runs out of moves. Some of the most well known mons in stall include Mega Sableye, Toxapex, Chansey, Clefable, Gliscor, Skarmory, Quagsire, Clodsire to name a few. Now with that said, Stall was done really dirty this gen. The most obvious inmediate hit is the pp nerf to all heal moves minus Wish(and Heal Order, but nobody uses Vespiquen). This alone ruins many pokemon, as they're ability to heal damage of threw these moves was crucial for them, especially for Stall. However, this wasn't the only hit to Stall, the addition of Terastalization while useful to change their typing defensively, also made already strong mons like Iron Valiant, rain abusers like Floatzel and Barraskewda, and much more, even more absurd to take hits from. To give u an idea, a Choice Band Floatzel with Water Tera under Tera 2hkos Toxapex of all things, and if it can handle that, it can easily demolish Stall in an eye blink. And to add salt to injury(quite literal) Garganacal as well as Gholdengo are a dead sentence for any Stall team, as their abilities allow them to simply ignore chip damage, as they can't be statused at all, unless u gets a lucky Scald burn in Gholddengo's case, but not Garganacal. You saw Stall before, you were infurious, now u see s
Stall and u almost laugh at it. Out of the 12 people that voted, only 3 of them think stall should be B tier, meanwhile the rest clearly aggres it deserves the C tier. In fact 1 player in particular even made gave it Z tier, which wasn't even a proper tier placement, but about15guys gave it anyway. He also gave an overall explanation of why he thinks stall is completely unviable. So to the suprise of almost no one, Stall is the worse team playstyle in Gen 9 NatDex OU.

Total Votes:
S:woop::woop::woop:=0
A:woop::woop:=0
B:woop:=3
C:pikuh:=9


View attachment 508462
Trick Room(11th place)

Trick Room is a very unique playstyle to say the least. As the name implies, this teamstyle revolves around abusing the presence of Trick Room, a move that while active, the slowest pokemom will hit first(excluding priority). This is potentially devastating against a faster frailer team such as HO teams and certain weathers like Rain and Sun. Some of the best Trick Room setter include the likes of Hatterene, Cresselia, Porygon2, Slowbro and Stakataka. Stakataka in particular is both an enabler AND an abuser of Trick Room. Other abusers include Vikavolt, Torkoal, Iron Hands, Alolan Marowak, Mega Mawile, Mega Camerupt and Kingambit. However, this playstyle as a whole is incredibly niche, as it is incredibly matchup dependant. They Heavily rely on Trick Room being out for their win condition, which they can only abuse for 5 turns, technically 4 in order to bring em out, meanwhile weathers can abuse their respective win conditions for 8 instead. And while some of them are quite bulky, theyre not impossible to take down outside of Trick Room. It does pretty well against faster and frailer teams like the Hyper Offensive teams, but not so hot against more bulkier or even balanced teams that hardly even care of Trick Room being up. In fact similar to Stall, another player didnt even bother rank it up and straight up sayd its ur. Even still, it beated Stall by just 1 point, and it at least has a niche against offensively heavy playstyles.

Total Votes:
S:woop::woop::woop:=0
A:woop::woop:=1
B:woop:=2
C:pikuh:=9


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Sand Offense(10th place)

Sand Offense is one of the 2 traditional ways Sand Teams are played as a playstyle. Sand Offense is about embrassing the presence of Sand and abusing it, similar to Sun, Rain, and the new Snow. The some of the bests abusers are Excadrill, Dracozolt, and Mega Garchomp, as they get extra benefits from sand like Sand Rush or Sand Force. Tyranitar is an alright setter, as it can be a bulky wallbreaker on top of setting Sand Stream, but you can also use Hippowdon over it, or alongside it for more longevity, and thus more opportunities to set Sand Stream. This all sounds great in paper, but not so much in practice. Mainly cuz the Sand Offense playstyle as a whole, is outclassed by Sun and Rain. Both Sun and Rain gets a 50% boost to Fire and Water moves respectively, meanwhile Sand does not. To be fair that was never an issue, the real issue is that the other weather teams gained new toys that elevated them, meanwhile the one sand got, Houndstone, was quickbanned for good reason. Dracozolt is quite slow EVEN in Sand, and Excadrill while Strong and Fast, has trouble breaking certain mons in the tier. And Mega Garchomp, while decent once it gets going, its not easy to get going in the first place. Even Snow is considered better, cuz it has better ways to abuse Snow like Aurora Veil. Overall Sand Offense can really use some new toys to play with, like better Sand Rush abuser or an Aurora Veil like move but for Sand.

Total Votes:
S:woop::woop::woop:=0
A:woop::woop:=1
B:woop:=3
C:pikuh:=8



B Tier
:woop:

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Snow HO(9th place)

Snow is the new replacement for Hail in this generation, as Snow Warning now summons Snow upon entry instead(Although the move Hail still exist here in Natdex). Most if not all the same interactions that you had with Hail also work with Snow, like Slush Rush, Ice Body, and of course, Aurora Veil. The main difference is that instead of Snow doing chip damage every turn all non-Ice types, Ice types instead gain a 50% physical defense boost. This may not seem that great at first, considering Ice is the worst defensive type in the game. However, this boost in conjuction with Aurora Veil, Ice types would have a 100% physical defense, and a 50% special defense boost in total, which is pretty good if you think about it. Snow HO is quite straightfoward, you bring in a Snow Warning mon, mainly Alolan Ninetales, setup Aurora Veil, and abuse them as much as possible. This makes it play similar to Sun and Rain, but also Screens Offense as well, which gives it quite the layers of offensive prowess. Some abusers of Snow are Arctozolt and Baxcalibur, but since this playstyle also behaves as a Screens Offense, it can also take a similar mental and run mons like Volcarona, Gholdengo, Annihilape and much more, without the drawback of being chipped like you would with Hail. They also gained a new move in Chilly Reception, a Uturn like move that instead of dealing damage, it sets up Snow upon switchin out. These moves were given to both forms of Slowking, which are both decent pivot mons that can also set Future Sight for extra pressure on the opponent. So with all of this going for it, why is it only B tier? Despite all these good qualities, it also has a lot holding it back. First off, it has to try and compete with other weathers, as they can just switch in their weather setter and interrupt Alolan Ninetales's attempts to setup Aurora Veil. And speaking of Veil, it also has a hard time with the 2 premier Screen seters, Tapu Koko and Grimmsnarl, as they can also shut the fox's attempts with fast Taunts. On top of that, Alolan Ninetales itself isn't really great, as it has an abysmal defensive typing, as something as simple as M-Scizor's Bullet Punch OHKOes it 100% if the time unless it uses Tera, which also means u would sacrifice offensive prowess to keep your setter alive. And both Slowkings are also weak to Pursuit, and with how almost omnipresent Kingambit is, the task of setting Snow threw Chilly Reception is also difficult. In other words, the conditions for Snow to set the tempo in order to get going are extremely difficult to fullfill. However, IF you can get it going, it can be a force to be reckoned with.

Total Votes:
S:woop::woop::woop:=0
A:woop::woop:=1
B:woop:=4
C:pikuh:=7


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Sand Balance(8th place)

Sand Balance is the 2nd traditional way of playing Sand teams, the other which we've talked about already. Sand Balance uses Sand in the opposite way of Sand Offense, instead of using it to abuser sweepers in a similar fashion to other weathers, they use the more defensive aspect of Sand. Sand boostes the Special Defense of all Rock-types by 50%, and while this isn't commonly very beneficial since the Sand setter of these teams is mainly Hippowdon, not Tyranitar, it can come in handy for something like Garganacal. But of course, while active, Sand deals 6% of chip damage to all non-Rock, Steel, and Ground types(or Pokemon with other abilities like Magic Guard and Overcoat as well). Of course Sand does use Sand Rush and/or Sand Force users as well, just not to the extreme of Sand Offense. Which is why many people think that Sand Balance is better overall, at least according to this list. Some great Sand Balance members include the already mentioned Hippowdon, as well as others like Skarmory, Garchomp, Mega Scizor, Excadrill, Garganacal, Corviknight, Ferrothorn, Landorus-T and Heatran. Both playstyle are very similar to each other, with the big different being that in here you use a similar mentality as you would with regular Balance, but add the elements of Sand to Now it still isn't that amazing, as it has similat issues as Sand Offense does, for example it can still struggle vs the other weathers, even with how bulky Hippowdon tends to be. But it is at least better than its more Offensive version.

Total Votes:
S :woop: :woop: :woop: =0
A:woop::woop:=3
B:woop:=4
C:pikuh:=5


View attachment 508191
Webs HO(7th place)

Webs HO is yet another Hyper Offensive playstyle. And as the name implies, the playstle is all about abusing the Sticky Webs, a hazard that upon entry lowers the speed of the pokemon by 1 stage. This opens up potential for certain pokemon to sweep, like Xurkitre, Mega Heracross and Thundurs-T for example. Shuckle and Ribombee are the premier setters for the job, Shuckle is bulkier and can also setup Stealth Rocks for the team, and Ribombee is faster, has access to Skill Swap for any Magic Bounce attempt from Hatterene or Mega Diancie, and can also paralyze with Stun Spore. The addition of Gholdengo also helped significantly, as it can deny both Rapid Spin due to being part Ghost type, and Defog with its ability Good As Gold. Gholdengo itself is a great Webs abuser with its high Spatk, decent speed, and appreciates the opposing team having their speed lowered. However, the problem the Webs HO teams had back in the day is still present, and that is that the hazard only targets grounded pokemon, meaning Flying types, Levitate mons or even Heavy Duty Boots can simply bypass them. Plus it isn't an automatic win even with those being dealth with, as slower and bulkier teams care very little of webs, if at all. Plus even Gholdengo can still be played around, with its weaknesses to Ghost, Dark, Ground and Fire, all of which are pretty common in this metagame. Even still, Webs HO is a pretty interesting archetype that can keep up with some of the best.


Total Votes:
S:woop::woop::woop:=0
A:woop::woop:=4
B:woop:=6
C:pikuh:=2


A Tier:
:woop::woop:

View attachment 508216
Balance(6th place)

Balance is one of the most customizable playstyles out there. This playstyle is an overall Balance between Offense and Defense. From the offensive side of the coin, you have between Setup Sweepers, Revenge Killers and Wallbreakers. And from the defensive side of the coin, we have walls that usually cover the teams weaknesses, as well as each other's weaknesses, between 2 or 3 pokemon. Their job is to switchin, and cripple the opponent between status likr burns, paralysis and poison, as well as Knock Off. Once they set the tempo, you bring your offensive mons to potentially win the game from there. There is many ways you can build these type of teams, making the playstyle consistent and adaptable. Because of this, They're isn't a true right or wrong on how to build them, just as long as the pokemon in the team are good themselves. Some honorable mentions for offensive mons on Balance teams include; Annihilape, Dragapult, Great Tusk, Kingambit, Zamazenta, Iron Valiant, Gholdengo, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, Garchomp, Mega Scizor, Mega Charizard Y, Mega Medicham, Mega Diancie, Tornadus-T to name a few. For defensive mons we have Corviknight, Ferrothorn, Heatran, Rotom-Wash, Toxapex, Clodsire, Skeledirge, Garganacal, Skarmory, Tangrowth, Slowbro, Zapdos, Gastrodon, Landorus-T, Gliscor. and much more. In fact some of these can work as both offensive threads AND defensive backbones at the same time like Great Tusk, Landorus-T and Garchomp for example. And this is just the tip of the iceberg when its comes to the pokemon ypu can add to the team, and these rules are similar for BO and Fat to some extend. If they're could be an actual weakness to the playstyle, if any, is maybe that they don't excel in everything. HO is always going to be more aggresive, meanwhile Stall is going to be more defensive. But honestly, this barely even feels as a weakness, if you want to even consider that as a weakness, which is why Balance teams are some of the best playstyles in the metagame.

Total Votes:
S:woop::woop::woop:=0
A:woop::woop:=6
B:woop:=6
C:pikuh:=0


View attachment 508231
Fat(5th place)

For those who aren't aware already, Fat is basically an unofficial term for yet another playstyle. Fat is pretty similar to BO, but it aims more towards Stall than its more offensive cousin. So Fat is pretty much a 60% stall(sometimes even more) and 40% offense(sometimes even less). Their teams usually consist of 4, sometimes even 5 stallmons, and then add a wallbreaker, or form of speed control to just to not get overwhelmed by the opponent. This may sound odd that Fat is this high up meanwhile Stall is at the very bottom of the tier list, but you need to remember pure Stall lacks offensive prowess. In general, it can stall the game for a while, by crippling the opponents team with status, hazards and knock off, similar to a Stall team, and even occasionally win in that fashion. However, that is where the wallbreaker comes in as an alternative win condition. Between this playstyle, Balance, and BO there seems to been a lot in common, but they have slight differences that are enough to make them overall different playstyles to each other. Fat isn't similarly customizable as Balance and BO, as it uses the ideal of Stall as part of their structure. A Stall core they use often is Hippowdon and Skarmory, or HippoSkarm, alongside Toxapex and between Garganacal or Skeledirge, with the wallbreaker and/or speed controls usually being Mega Lopunny, Tornadus-T, and Dragapult for example, Think of it as meat terms, Fat would be in the more well term meanwhile BO is on the raw term, and of course, Balance is medium.

Total Votes:
S:woop::woop::woop:=0
A:woop::woop:=7
B:woop:=5
C:pikuh:=0


View attachment 508222
BO(Bulky Offense)(4th place)

Bulky Offense teams are really similar to that of Balance teams, in fact, too similar. The main difference however, is that they aim more towards the offensive side. Basically, BO is around 60% Offense, and 40% Defense. Most of the pokemon in these teams include 2-3 pivots, between offensive and defensive. The goal is to switch around and position yourself in a way that you can gain advantage from the scenario. However, there not just pure Voltturn as one would think, as they usually bring with them a Sweeper to clean up late game once the moment is right. And similarly as Balance teams, it is just as customizable and thus adaptable as well. However, the majority of the players that voted consider Bulky Offense the better of the three playstyles.

Total Votes:
S:woop::woop::woop:=1
A:woop::woop:=8
B:woop:=4
C:pikuh:=0


View attachment 508433
Rain(3rd place)

Rain teams is one of the 4 weather teams in pokemon(well 5 if u count Hail not being similar to Snow). So the game is simple, bring a Drizzle setter(A.k.a Pelipper) and abuse it as much as possible. With Swift Swimmers like Mega Swampert, Barraskweda, Floatzel and Kingdra blitzing everything under the Rain. Other abusers include Manaphy, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, Zapdos, Tornadus-Therian, Walking Wake and the rare Greninja. However, Rain isn't only an offense machine, as Fertothorn is an excellent pokemon in Rain thanks to its bulk and utility, and enjoys Rain nuttering its quadruple Fire weakness. Gholdengo could also be used in Rain, similar to Ferrothorn it enjoy Fire being weakened for it while providing some power of its own, and of course, Good As Gold is always good to have. Meanwhile Zapdos and Tornadus offer some defensive utility by having a Ground immune, and Mega Swampert brings an electric immunity, which is excellent for Rain to have. However, the Real deal for Rain teams is the addition of Terastalization, which they abuse to astonishing levels with Tera Water. This makes offensive Rain abusers like Barraskewda and Urshifu-Rapid-Strike almost impossible to switch into safely, as not even Toxapex wants to take a hit seeing its 2hkoed by a Choice Band Floatzel with Tera Water. Some of the players that voted said that Rain was even S tier worthy, but the majority voted for it to be A tier. Even still, it's not a playstyle to take lightly in the slightest.

Total Votes:
S:woop::woop::woop:=3
A:woop::woop:=9
B:woop:=0
C:pikuh:=0

View attachment 508437
Sun(2nd place)

Sun is another weather based team, and according to the votes, it is the best of the bunch. In fact, this is the first time Sun is actually considered better than Rain, which is no mean feat. Sun teams abuse the ability Drought threw Torkoal and or Mega Charizard Y. Chrollophyllers like Venusaur and the more niche Scovillain are excellent pokemon for sweeping, wallbreaking and/or cleaning up, as well as the new Paradox mons like Great Tusk, Walking Wake, and the rare Slither Wing. Walking Wake in particular boosted the viability on Sun teams almost on its own, as its typing lets it handle the Rain matchup really well, and also has a signature Water type move that gets boosted in Sun instead of nuttered. Other abusers include Victini and Blaziken, as the extra fire power is tremendous, especially with Tera Fire for them to abuse. Sun is definetly one the most powerful playstyles in National Dex OU, as some even believe that Walking Wake is too strong under Sun and should thus be banned. Many players considered it S worthy, however it was a half n half between it and A, so it barely missed the mark.

Total Votes:
S:woop::woop::woop:=6
A:woop::woop:=6
B:woop:=0
C:pikuh:=0

S Tier
:woop::woop::woop:
View attachment 508440
Screens HO(1st place)

Screens HO is perhaps the epedemy of hyper offense play. Screens HO revolves around the Dual Screens, Reflect and Light Screen, to half all physical and special attacks aimed at them while active respectively. This allows already dangerous mons like Volcarona and Mega Gyarados to reliably setup and potentially sweep from there. Even if 1 of there attempts falls short, its going to leave a hole for an ally to clean up late game. The premier seters for this are Tapu Koko and Grimmsnarl, Grimm with its Prankster Screens, Taunts and Parting Shots, and Koko with Electric Terrain enabling even more threads such as Iron Valiant. Another addition Screens HO gained this gen was Cyclizar, with great speed, a huge utility movepool, and of course, Shed Tail. With how destructive this playstyle tends to be, a single Shed Tail can often be described as a dead pokemon on the opponent's team, or at the very least, a massive hole, especially under Dual Screens. Orthworm is another Shed Tail passer, but it isn't nearly as good, however, it still has some unique traits like being able to set hazards and being slow allows it to slowpass Shed Tail, which can flip the tables. There is also Glimmora, who became an excellent suicide lead thanks to Toxic Debris adding an additional layer of hazard upon getting hit by a contact move. Even without it in the picture, Landorus-T is also a great suicide lead with its amazing attack and Explosion. Some excellent sweepers include Iron Valiant, Iron Moth, Volcarona, Hawlucha, Serperior, Annihilape, Kingambit, Dragapult, Dragonite, Baxcalibur, Serperior, Mega Gyarados and many more. In fact recently, people have been experimenting with a Mew set called "Demon Mew" which sets Cosmic Power to boost its defenses alongside Dual Screens to become basically unkillable, and then sweep from there with Stored Power. The power of this playstyle is such that many want it to be hit in some way, mainly banning either Cyclizar or Shed Tail as a whole, Annihilape, Dragapult and Kingambit. So similar to how Stall was unsuprisingly the worse playstyle, Screens HO is to no suprise the Best playstyle in this gen of National Dex OU.

Total Votes:
S :woop: :woop: :woop: =9
A:woop::woop:=3
B:woop:=0
C:pikuh:=0

So there you have it, the National Dex OU "Archetype" tier list

S
:woop: :woop: :woop:
Screens HO
A
:woop::woop:
SunRainBOFatBalance
B
:woop:
Webs HOSand BalanceSnow HO
C
:pikuh:
Sand OffenseTrick RoomStall

Huge Credits to those who participated on this list:
about15guys, Oculars, Evilo42 , hidin, TheRainQueen , georgebowserjr , Dead by Daylight , Negative_emotions916 , Chino_ , Illouri , MurderousMantyke , Sputnik, diseased rodent , hi.naming is hard , RunicPower413 , Typhlosion4 and gamer but swag.
Thank you to all of you for helping me out on this project, I really hope this was for the better of this metagame. I hope you all like it, and who knows, I may try to keep doing more of these articles in the future.
Happy to help :)
(webs should be higher though...)
 

Sulo

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National Dex Leader
With the new bans in place that have significantly improved the metagame, I thought I'd share my thoughts on some sets / general Pokemon and their place in the metagame at the moment.

:sv/clefable:
Clefable is really good right now, a lot better than the VR might suggest at least. Having Magic Guard is huge in a Spikes- and Garganacl-infested tier; the latter is important because that same ability lets it check Garganacl quite well, especially if using Calm Mind + Rocky Helmet to further chip it if it's Body Press. I specifically want to talk about Knock Off sets though:
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD (spread can be changed to whatever u want rlly)
Tera Type: Water
Calm Nature
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind / Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Soft-Boiled
With Calm Mind + Tera Water, Clefable becomes a really potent wincon; checks like Gholdengo and Heatran are suspectible to Tera Water boosting in front of it or having crucial items removed. Going back to Knock Off, this is what really makes the set click imo. The Pokemon Clefable baits in are pretty reliant on items for longevity / better punishing Pokemon (e.g. Skarmory, Heatran, Toxapex, etc); this is important for the teammates this thing goes so well with. Mega Lopunny has free reign over what it wants to do thanks to Rocky Helmet being removed from opposing users of it, and it can more freely use Frustration against Toxapex since Spikes and Stealth Rock dig into it more often. If you don't want a wincon and something more utility-based, Stealth Rock works fine on this set too. It provides good role compression and a solid check to special-based Dragapult sets (if specially defensive), making it a valuable slot on any fat team.

:sv/gliscor:
MANIFESTO (Gliscor) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SpD / 12 Spe
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Facade
Swords Dance Gliscor is actually fucking broken right now. Annihilape / Walking Wake being banned means you don't have to slot on Toxic as much (which is useful on bulky offense teams where U-turn can be used to bring in a wallbreaker or Knock Off for that sweet item removal), so you can easily just forgo utility sets, add another Defogger like Rotom-W (or just use Heavy-Duty Boots spam lol), and use Swords Dance instead. The counterplay to this thing is so linear and easily taken advantage of; physically defensive Ferrothorn gets fucked by a Leech Seed miss + doesn't actually resist Earthquake, so it loses long-term. It's also just hard-pressed not to lose Leftovers in this matchup, forcing something else to take it instead, which is always detrimental (unless you have something like Mega Scizor), Skarmory literally just gets PP stalled (this was brought to my attention and it's insane that this can even happen; 32 PP Facade is dumb) and you can slot on so many ways to force it out, and trying to Terastallize to beat it is already just not good for you. This thing will literally never die against fat and can Terastallize itself to get rid of its offensive checks with ease.

:sv/mew:
I don't have a particular set in mind, but I think bulky utility Mew sets are quite decent. It generally has the bulk to switch in on a lot and threaten things with a burn / entry hazard / deter recovery or passive play with Taunt, etc. Deals consistent damage with Night Shade and its Speed tier is good enough to the point where it doesn't have to invest much, if at all, to get past faster defensive Pokemon like Gliscor and Rotom-W. This thing also just stonewalls Zamazenta, and it's a solid check to Choice Scarf Tapu Lele and Mega Diancie (especially if specially defensive). Definitely should be tried out and explored more imo, has the potential to blanket check and annoy a lot and provide valuable role compression to boot.
 

Sulo

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How do I counter a Kingambit without using tusk? (I don't really want to use it)
You've got some options. For offensive counterplay, Urshifu-R, Iron Valiant, and Zamazenta are excellent (not exactly counters but really I don't think anything can reliably counter Kingambit too well because Tera is fucked). Defensively, Pokemon like Skarmory and Garchomp can beat it one-on-one or at least force some chip damage onto it.
 

about15guys

Who's this chainsaw man
is a Pre-Contributor
How do I counter a Kingambit without using tusk? (I don't really want to use it)
You've got some options. For offensive counterplay, Urshifu-R, Iron Valiant, and Zamazenta are excellent (not exactly counters but really I don't think anything can reliably counter Kingambit too well because Tera is fucked). Defensively, Pokemon like Skarmory and Garchomp can beat it one-on-one or at least force some chip damage onto it.
I'd also like to nominate buzzwole, as its typing is uniquely suited to beating gambit and its coverage while also being a potent defensive option to mons like tusk or lando-t
 
You've got some options. For offensive counterplay, Urshifu-R, Iron Valiant, and Zamazenta are excellent (not exactly counters but really I don't think anything can reliably counter Kingambit too well because Tera is fucked). Defensively, Pokemon like Skarmory and Garchomp can beat it one-on-one or at least force some chip damage onto it.
I'd also like to nominate buzzwole, as its typing is uniquely suited to beating gambit and its coverage while also being a potent defensive option to mons like tusk or lando-t
Thanks for the suggestions! And a question for you about15guys is the usual buzzwole set rocky helmet, cc, roost, and filler? If so then why do we use cc on it if it drops buzze's defense? (Sorry if it sounded like a stupid question I never really developed into the meta this gen a lot since I got burned out after gen 9's early hype was over) :worrywhirl:

EDIT: mispelled something
 
It's mostly so you don't hit like an actual noodle into Pokemon that you're supposed to dent (Ferrothorn, for example, can eat Drain Punch).
Ah ok I get it now ty! :swole::quagchamppogsire:

:psyglad:


EDIT: To avoid double postiong I wonder what makes a good spdef wall for buzzwole since it's spdef isn't good :smogthink:
 
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Slowpoke Fan

Slow?
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Ah ok I get it now ty! :swole::quagchamppogsire:

:psyglad:


EDIT: To avoid double postiong I wonder what makes a good spdef wall for buzzwole since it's spdef isn't good :smogthink:
Slowking is a wonderful partner for Buzzwole - it soaks up the fire and psychic type moves that Buzzwole is afraid of while setting up future sight for Buzzwole to abuse. It can also bother sun nowadays with chilly reception :psyglad:
 

about15guys

Who's this chainsaw man
is a Pre-Contributor
Slowking is a wonderful partner for Buzzwole - it soaks up the fire and psychic type moves that Buzzwole is afraid of while setting up future sight for Buzzwole to abuse. It can also bother sun nowadays with chilly reception :psyglad:
second this, slowking-g is also a good pick if you want a fairy resist over a water resist
 
I'm surprised how bulky buzz is against gambit in a 1v1 here is the calcs to show
With some defense evs on it's standard set in natdex uu:
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Tera Dark Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 120+ Def Buzzwole: 193-228 (46.1 - 54.5%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO

And here it is without any def evs added only hp:
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Tera Dark Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Buzzwole: 233-275 (55.7 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Heck it even stands strong against it when there is stealth rock in it's field:
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Tera Dark Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Buzzwole: 233-275 (55.7 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

It can withstand a dark tera gambit even with +2 and with 5 allies fainted!
But a small problem with buzzwole against gambit is if gambit is ghost or flying tera instead of dark but I think most gambits are stab tera so it's fine ig. :swole: :quagchamppogsire:
 

Slowpoke Fan

Slow?
is a Site Content Manageris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
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I'm surprised how bulky buzz is against gambit in a 1v1 here is the calcs to show
With some defense evs on it's standard set in natdex uu:
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Tera Dark Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 120+ Def Buzzwole: 193-228 (46.1 - 54.5%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO

And here it is without any def evs added only hp:
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Tera Dark Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Buzzwole: 233-275 (55.7 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Heck it even stands strong against it when there is stealth rock in it's field:
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Tera Dark Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Buzzwole: 233-275 (55.7 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

It can withstand a dark tera gambit even with +2 and with 5 allies fainted!
But a small problem with buzzwole against gambit is if gambit is ghost or flying tera instead of dark but I think most gambits are stab tera so it's fine ig. :swole: :quagchamppogsire:
That is why Buzzwole runs ice punch/thunder punch! As for tera ghost, just switch in your own dark type to deal with it (pursuit support is almost mandatory on any offensive team imo) :psyglad:
 
That is why Buzzwole runs ice punch/thunder punch! As for tera ghost, just switch in your own dark type to deal with it (pursuit support is almost mandatory on any offensive team imo) :psyglad:
Ik but I did calcs and Ice punch only 3hkos :tymp: for ghost sure ig ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

hidin

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:sv/reuniclus:
Reuniclus has always been a very annoying wincon, and it still holds up! It's Spike-immune and Salt Cure / Toxic / Sand immunities are great in a tier that's infested with them, and is also able to take advantage of common fat teams with Pokemon like Garganacl, Toxapex, Clodsire, and Hippowdon with ease, often turning them into set-up fodder while also threatening Pokemon like Kingambit and Heatran with Focus Blast. Tera Fairy also allows it to subvert its problems with facing Pokemon like Kingambit and the occasional Mega Tyranitar, and other Tera types like Tera Dark are used to deal with Pokemon like Dragapult and deal with Kingambit entirely, or Tera Water because its Water, and you know how its a good defensive typing. Reuniclus is often to be paired with Kingambit to deal with Gholdengo, who is capable of walling Reuniclus entirely, unless Shadow Ball is ran on it but at that point use something like Electrium Z, because not being able to touch Dark-types is not very ideal, but you can always use Pokemon that can check them like Mega Lopunny. While it may be a favorite of the infamous thug Sulo, it's still a very solid wincon, and often will be a win on preview against common fat structures in the metagame.
Reuniclus @ Leftovers / Colbur Berry / Fightinium Z
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Fairy / Water / Dark
EVs: 244 HP / 204 Def / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock / Stored Power
- Focus Blast
- Recover

You can probably lower your Speed to creep no Speed Toxapex, but I've seen a little surge of 16 Speed Toxapex for some reason, so I usually creep there to not be Haze fodder while also winning 1v1s with other Reuniclus and sometimes Hatterene while also outspeeding other Pokemon that hit the same Speed tier as Reuniclus like Garganacl. Colbur Berry can be used so you don't have to waste your Tera infront of Kingambit, while Fightinium Z can be used to eliminate it and take less from Knock Off, but it will still be solid chip on Reuniclus.


:sv/latias-mega::sv/latios-mega:
The Lati-twins still hold up as well, but moreso Mega Latios then Mega Latias due to the large offensive pressure it exerts with its strong STAB and coverage, having little to no safe switch-ins with Pokemon like Corviknight and Mega Latias becoming not viable and not common, respectively. It's defensive utility is also great as it can switch-in to and threaten Pokemon like Urshifu-R, Mega Charizard Y, and non-Toxic Heatran. Options like Substitute have been used to help it win mindgames with Kingambit, as once you Substitute up on a Sucker Punch you can then switch out safely or just remove the Kingambit with Aura Sphere. Other variants have used Mystical Fire to remove Gholdengo and Mega Scizor out of the equation, or Ice Beam to pressure the Ground-types it pressures like Gliscor and Landorus-T, but both take significant damage from Psychic. Mega Latias still is able to function as a solid wincon, as it's defensive traits are still quite nice and it can still do Mega Latias things with either the standard 2 Attacks + Calm Mind set, or Stored Power + Substitute sets, but do keep in mind that the recovery nerf is kind of a shot in the leg for it. Both also take a large advantage of Charizard Mega Y + Great Tusk teams, which is always good to deal with since Mega Charizard Y is one annoying bastard.
Latios-Mega (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Aura Sphere
- Roost
- Substitute / Mystical Fire

I would highly suggest to not use Thunder + Ice Beam, as then you lose the Kingambit matchup very hard and generally get owned by Steel-types.

Latias-Mega (F) @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Aura Sphere
- Roost

You could use Mystical Fire > Aura Sphere for Gholdengo, but trading the Kingambit matchup for it when you can just use a Kingambit of your own to deal with it is not ideal.


Shadow Wizard Money Gang.
 

about15guys

Who's this chainsaw man
is a Pre-Contributor
With HOME dropping tomorrow soon™, I figured I'd give my thoughts on what the new Hisuian Forms would do for the metagame, alongside a brief ranking for each

S - New metagame staples, whether it be though utility or offensive prowess, these are the mons to look out for in the new metagame
A - Solid picks, that have good traits but also have drawbacks or other issues holding them back
B - Niche options that may see some use, but have serious drawbacks or other qualities that make them undesirable
C - Bad options that generally shouldn't be used, little to no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and bad picks all-around
D - Worst of the worst, never ever use these options

:arcanine-hisui: A - pretty solid midspeed breaker, while 115 attack isn't anything special, rock head alongside its access to flare blitz and head smash mean this could throw a wrench into common metagame mons, especially those on slower teams

:avalugg-hisui: D - terrible pokemon, its got all the same issues that regular avalugg has, except worse in every regard. It's a defensive mon with the single worst defensive dual type in the game, terrible special bulk and a useless signature move

:basculegion: S - this is a pokemon to look out for. obviously with access to last respects it'd be turbo broken, but assuming last respects gets banned this mon would find a comfy home on rain teams as their main breaker. while slower than floatzel, its still got a great speed tier in rain alongside a second potent stab in ghost, a much higher hp stat allowing it to spam wave crash more, and slightly higher base attack elevating it to a level above floatzel. be ready for this mon to punch holes in unprepared teams and a general thorn in the side for builders

:braviary-hisui: C - on paper this looks like a pretty solid option, 112 spa is nothing to scoff at, especially with access to sheer force, but the cripplingly low speed tier alongside middling bulk and a weakness to dark makes this an all around ok mon, scarfed tinted lens sets could potentially be interesting, but as a whole I don't think this mon is that good

:decidueye-hisui: B - triple arrows looks neat, but the statline shoehorns it into trick room teams so it's not getting much usage. again, could be an interesting scarfer, especially with triple arrows' secondary effects but nothing too crazy

:electrode-hisui: D - who

:enamorus: B - seems ok at best, on paper a fairy type contrary user with a solid speed tier seems good, but sadly the only move she gets that works with contrary is superpower, so it's not going to be that good

:enamorus-therian: C - looking at the stats on this thing, I figured it could be a pretty solid mon on fatter teams, with its good defensive typing and great statline, but unfortunately it's missing both defog and recovery, meaning its not a great option, if for some reason it gets roost and defog when it comes to S/V it could be a very solid option

:goodra-hisui: A - very similar mon to regular goodra, but a valuable steel dual typing could make this a very desirable mon, as 110 spa is still somewhat threatening, especially with it's good movepool

:kleavor: C - rocks aren't that hard to get up right now, and magic bounce/taunt isnt even the most common. its stats also aren't the best, with 135 attack being its only one worth mention, most pokemon can probably just outright outspeed and kill it, just run a consistent rocker like lando-t

:lilligant-hisui: S - this thing is scary man, on paper 105 attack isn't that high, but with access to hustle and objectively better dragon dance, this thing is going to be incredibly scary to switch into. absolutely going to require building around in the builder, especially with all the great options it has for its 4th move

:overqwil: B - ok looking pokemon, intimidate on a poison/dark type could see some use on a few teams, but otherwise it looks pretty unremarkable as a whole

:samurott-hisui: C - does not look very usable, while ceasless edge + sharpness seems like a good combo, its stats are just terrible, poor speed tier and terrible bulk as a whole make this hard to justity using, as most common leads can probably just instantly kill it with a smidgen of offensive investment, only niche it gets is how hard it beats stall

:sneasler: S - s/v's candidate for most annoying mon of all time. while I don't think this'll become too common, it's going to be a right pain in the ass to switch into, with dire claw's frankly absurd secondary effects alongside potent setup options in sd and unburden options w/ seed, it'll see common use on hyper offense teams and looks like a potent late game and gambit answer

:typhlosion-hisui: B - signature move seems nice, ability to fish for burns on switches is good, but lack of good statline and poor abilities make it situationally usable over regular hex users like dragapult

:ursaluna: A - wake up babe new fat mu fish just dropped. jokes aside this looks like an incredibly potent midspeed breaker, ground/steel has good offensive coverage and access to guts and a base attack of 140 makes this thing scary, but not being able to hold an item, taking 6% damage every turn, usable but not impressive bulk and terrible speed tier hold it back a lot, could potentially see use on tr teams but idk how common they'll be

:wyrdeer: C - psyshield bash is interesting, otherwise unremarkable as a whole, offensive mon hindered by poor speed tier + bad bulk

Final List:
S - :basculegion: :lilligant-hisui: :sneasler:
A - :arcanine-hisui: :goodra-hisui: :ursaluna:
B - :decidueye-hisui: :enamorus: :overqwil: :typhlosion-hisui:
C - :braviary-hisui: :enamorus-therian: :kleavor: :samurott-hisui: :wyrdeer:
D - :avalugg-hisui: :electrode-hisui:
 
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