Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Arena Trap
Contrary
Gorilla Tactics
Huge Power
Illusion
Innards Out
Intrepid Sword (limited to only Zacian @ Rusted Sword)
Libero
Magnet Pull
Moody
Neutralizing Gas
Parental Bond
Protean
Pure Power
Shadow Tag
Stakeout
Water Bubble
Wonder Guard
I'm really glad to see this meta getting back up again. I feel like there are a ton of cool new things to explore, and a bunch of new ways to push the meta forward. It's also really nice to see strong executive action taken on things such as imprison + transform that might not be overly broken, but seem uncompetitive. I think that's what makes this being a pet mod cool, it allows for a much swifter approach to banning (and unbanning) things to see how the meta is effected by these and try to get to a really nice competitive state. With this in mind, I think it would also be cool to have periods where maybe we explore whether Mega-Rayquaza, Primal-Groudon, or Shedinja freed could have a place in the meta. Granted, these pokemon will most likely be broken, but I think with ndbh here as a pet mod, it's a good opportunity to explore this and possibly a missed opportunity if we don't, so I think there should be some consideration that goes into this.
Anywhase, this aside there has been a ton of new innovation in gen8bh that I think we could see potentially have an effect in ndbh, specifically regarding Eternatus.
Eternatus @ Black Sludge / Draco Plate
Ability: Mold Breaker / Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Core Enforcer / Judgement
- Sludge Bomb
- Blue Flare / Earth Power
- Tail Glow
This set and its variations has shown to be extremely strong in gen8bh. This is mainly due to its very strong speed tier and insane bulk, which allows it to heal relatively comfortably with black sludge. In ndbh this pokemon seems to potentially be better because now it has tail glow instead of nasty plot, and access to Judgement / Draco Plate which would even allow it to be self improofed. However, its speed tier isn't as great as pokemon such as Mewtwo-Mega-Y can outspeed it and threaten to ohko it. Pokemon such as Zacian-C can be a strong offensive switch in as well since it's able to resist both its stabs and fire off a very strong Glacial Lance (although this won't ohko it).
Thanks for getting ndbh back up Anaconja and I look forward to playing it again ^.^
Court Change was banned in BH. I've decided that it changes very little between BH and NDBH, so Court Change is now banned.
Other Epic Update: might hold a couple roomtours when I'm not as busy
Other Epic Reminder: looking for council members, pm @anaconja#3464 if interested
Ash-Greninja seems insane due to a great stab combination with two 100% crit moves- Wicked Blow and Surging Strikes. Sniper and possibly a Choice Band coupled with base 145 atk and 132 spe boost its power to substantial levels.
252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zamazenta-Crowned on a critical hit: 273-327 (70.3 - 84.2%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus on a critical hit: 333-393 (75 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Giratina on a critical hit: 306-363 (60.7 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Wicked Blow vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini on a critical hit: 157-184 (45.7 - 53.6%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Xerneas on a critical hit: 378-444 (82.8 - 97.3%) -- approx. 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eternatus on a critical hit: 391-460 (80.7 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon-Primal on a critical hit: 247-292 (61.1 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Has enough power to easily 2hko non-fc arceus formes and can even break common fur coat walls after some chip or hazard damage while outspeeding everything upto MMY, Mega-Beedrill, scarfers and some other mons.
Ignoring Strength Sap drops and Prankster is great too.
Soft rain support is also good for it to basically guarantee 2hkos against non-water resist fc mons.
Ash-Greninja seems insane due to a great stab combination with two 100% crit moves- Wicked Blow and Surging Strikes. Sniper and possibly a Choice Band coupled with base 145 atk and 132 spe boost its power to substantial levels.
252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zamazenta-Crowned on a critical hit: 273-327 (70.3 - 84.2%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus on a critical hit: 333-393 (75 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Giratina on a critical hit: 306-363 (60.7 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Wicked Blow vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini on a critical hit: 157-184 (45.7 - 53.6%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Xerneas on a critical hit: 378-444 (82.8 - 97.3%) -- approx. 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eternatus on a critical hit: 391-460 (80.7 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon-Primal on a critical hit: 247-292 (61.1 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Has enough power to easily 2hko non-fc arceus formes and can even break common fur coat walls after some chip or hazard damage while outspeeding everything upto MMY, Mega-Beedrill, scarfers and some other mons.
Ignoring Strength Sap drops and Prankster is great too.
Soft rain support is also good for it to basically guarantee 2hkos against non-water resist fc mons.
yes, greninja-ash has been very good in the past (a+ on the vr before dlc2) and should not change very much afterward. usually you use tough claws with fishious rend as that does more damage but sniper is another option mainly for stuff like frost breath to hit zyg-c or maybe storm throw to hit zamazenta (though fc zzc is rarely seen). the main checks to greninja are usually stuff like:
fc waterceus (252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Arceus-Water on a critical hit: 153-181 (34.4 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO)
fc zygc (252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Zygarde-Complete on a critical hit: 153-181 (24 - 28.4%) -- 97.1% chance to 4HKO, though glance has a chance to 2hko)
fc etern (252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Eternatus on a critical hit: 177-211 (36.5 - 43.5%) -- 98.7% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery)
additionally since this mon is banded and therefore locked to one move you can use midgrounds like regenvest gyarados (252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Gyarados-Mega on a critical hit: 177-210 (44.9 - 53.2%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO) to scout the attack and then switch to a mon that resists the stabs like xerneas and pdon.
lastly since ndbh is just so diverse you can use more niche checks. i've used:
Bmaybe (Scizor-Mega) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / (252 Spe)
Impish / Relaxed / Adamant / Brave Nature
(IVs: 0 Spe)
- U-turn
- Anchor Shot
- Roost
- First Impression
252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Scizor-Mega on a critical hit: 139-163 (40.4 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Scizor-Mega First Impression vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Greninja-Ash: 332-392 (95.4 - 112.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
(this also is a good blanket check for stuff like mmx and zacc)
BIG CHUNGUS (Chesnaught) @ Fightinium Z / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Fur Coat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Low Kick
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- U-turn
252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Chesnaught on a critical hit: 72-90 (18.9 - 23.6%) -- approx. possible 5HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Greninja-Ash Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Chesnaught: 146-172 (38.4 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(this also checks ph regigigas pretty consistently)
Lubriderm Lotion™ (Tyranitar-Mega) @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Pursuit
- Spectral Thief
- Shore Up
- Parting Shot
252 Atk Choice Band Sniper Greninja-Ash Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tyranitar-Mega on a critical hit: 142-168 (35.1 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
definitely awful but this improofed tail glow z-water spout gengar-mega and adapt greninja on a rain team. idk could work ok with the right set.
thundy kick is great to break down the fc walls that it would struggle to break otherwise. obstruct is the icing on the cake to capitalize on anchors and thieves. photon and bolt strike aim to go through waterceus/hooh but make the dragon mu significantly harder.
tttech leads with a crunchy suicide lead eternatus and sets his hazards while sevag being haxy as ever wins the speed tie twice.
tttech then seems to blunder here by final gambiting his lunala against the etern even though 137 < 145. perhaps he forgot. or maybe he expected the switch cause it was scarf? idk he shoudlve gone diancie i think. doesnt matter too much cause he finishes it off with scarf zygc but in hindsight it would have done better if it blew up the zzc instead
zygc gets paralyzed by zzc causing it to not be able to blow up the fairyceus. unfortunate.
normalize gengar is soundly walled by zzc. tttech attempts to play around it with diancie but gets paralyzed which allows sevag to sack fairyceus and allow zacian to come in and get a free kill.
tttech brings out No Switchin Kyurem-B only for it to have a switchin in dshield groudon so it gets trapped and dies. sad.
the next 104 turns is made up of sevag pp stalling the gengar in what is probably the worst endgame ive ever seen. and its only week 1!
quantum reveals fc fireceus which is pretty annoying to groudon but lets simple etern in. unfortunately quantum has a hard check in regenvest pogre (for reference +6 core into +0 core does not 2hko, and onyx's structure has no switchin for a +6 ogre) so onyx is forced out.
qt pulls out the zacian and reveals sunsteel strike and precipice blades which onyx has to play around. fortunately for him yveltal lives a hit and crit vcreates it out of existence.
xerneas reveals nuzzle and onyx lets togekiss get paralyzed which was unwise as it immediately gets full para'd.
from here its mostly downhill but i found it weird that onyx sacked the etern rather than the togekiss.
fc chansey? ph spikes slowbro? this is some sr ass looking stall-
figures
chansey gets the burn on zacian which is dire af (shouldve double swapped to hooh fr)
giratina spins the spikes away while nalorium seems not to have any hazard removal which is equally dire.
shift gear kyogre sounds pretty funny with what i assume is tough claws rend but the team has 0 answer for fc waterceus so it just gets walled and ko'd.
from there its pretty much a wrap cause amber has 6 fat mons and 3 spikes up.
overall a weird week. you have >100 turn endgame, stall vs 0 hazard removal balance, and LIL KISS (forma de worst mon on team). definitely looking forward to w2 with hype games in city vs tttech, nihi vs sevag, and uhhhhhhhhhh bolivia vs qt??? this is what no ndbh player does to a mf
tttech seems to bring his like 3-year-old gen 7 team ported to ndbh with A Shopping List! (Gengar-Mega) and diancie forming the offensive core with like 4 pivots (bringe).
the game starts with a bunch of boring pivoting stuff but it starts to get interesting when tttech hards groudon on kyogre and it reveals twaves and then qd (insane set). turns out its z-waves so it lures and 2hkos the groudon.
then it quickly goes back to boring doubles and pivoting until city trades don for paralyzing gengar. pretty huge cause city didn't seem to have a very good switchin to it otherwise so getting that off was very useful to her.
dialga gets a qd up and ohkos the passive waterceus but then tttech brings out his own qd mon (sf diancie-mega) and decimates. had city saved the solgaleo or gotten a para when dialga was in she would've won which is pretty unfortunate.
vs
sevag haxes out of the gate strong by dodging a play rough and burning the zacian.
nihilslave pulls out the sceptile and blows groudon to space with a dragon energy (pretty interesting choice - fast special dragon that hits kyogre is pretty good though it has a lot of trouble against steels).
ghostceus comes in against the passive waterceus and clicks tail glow as the ice scales dialga comes in and hits it for 47%. had nihilslave clicked recovery instead of thief there i think he wouldve done a lot better because dialga was really important in the matchup against ogre/diancie as well.
waterceus pivots to sceptile and of course it dies instantly. perhaps if he had a zacian switchin that did more to zacian that would have been more helpful too.
man backed out lmao
i think these were more exciting to watch than last week. good to see that ghostceus is still top tier
been a long time coming, surprised i missed this during pmpl but also ppl were gentleplayers and never used sleep
Sleep Moves Clause was implemented in Gen 8 BH. I've decided that sleep will be even more egregious here, as mons like setup Eternatus/TG Arceus will become even more difficult to answer. Therefore, Sleep Moves Clause will also be implemented in NDBH.
working to get ndbh coded on main, thanks for your patience
main announcement:
i'm considering suspecting darmanitan-galar-zen due to its ridiculously high bp stabs and top-tier offensive stats. last time ndbh was ladderable it was limited to triple axel which could easily be exploited with helmet; mg sets avoided this issue but in general are easier to manage due to it not ignoring fc. with glance, however, it gets a very spammable move with no drawbacks. although it hates rocks and is somewhat prediction-reliant, with mold breaker band it has very few switchins.
not entirely sure how to structure the suspect considering the lack of ladder but i'm thinking i can ask for a few roomtours and award suspect rights to the winners and runnerups, in addition to whoever gets to a certain round in the kickoff tour. but i'd like to hear your guys' opinions about dgz in the meantime.
main announcement:
i'm considering suspecting darmanitan-galar-zen due to its ridiculously high bp stabs and top-tier offensive stats. last time ndbh was ladderable it was limited to triple axel which could easily be exploited with helmet; mg sets avoided this issue but in general are easier to manage due to it not ignoring fc. with glance, however, it gets a very spammable move with no drawbacks. although it hates rocks and is somewhat prediction-reliant, with mold breaker band it has very few switchins.
not entirely sure how to structure the suspect considering the lack of ladder but i'm thinking i can ask for a few roomtours and award suspect rights to the winners and runnerups, in addition to whoever gets to a certain round in the kickoff tour. but i'd like to hear your guys' opinions about dgz in the meantime.
I'm not a huge fan of suspect testing darmanitan-galar-zen. For one, I don't think there's been enough opportunities to really measure its impact on the metagame to warrant a suspect test. It was seen in Pet Mods Premier League, but I don't believe it was necessarily seen as broken then. However, from what I understand from the metagame, there are enough means to both defensively, and offensively check darmanitan-galar-zen, that gen8bh for example did not have. Firstly, there are a good number of pokemon much faster than d-g-z this generation such as mmy, Zacian-C, deoxys-attack, and mega-beedrill. All of these pokemon can ohko d-g-z if they run coverage moves (not names diamond storm lol). Secondly, strong defensive pokemon such as Arceus-Water, and Groudon-Primal can do an effective job of restricting darmanitan's opportunities. Other Arceus types such as fire and rock have shown to be very consistent at checking darmanitan-galar-zen as well.
I can see why Darmanitan-galar-zen can be observed as broken vs. passive play, because if it gets enough opportunities it can eventually click the correct buttons to win. However, I do envisious ndbh as transitioning towards a more "fat" metagame with strong Zac-C and Pdon cores, which I believe can help mitigate the mayhem darmanitan-galar-zen will cause.
thoughts on this set? crit sniper boost hits really hard, with fleur cannon/overheat as good coverage options. it also can beat stuff used as setup answers like prankster haze.
thoughts on this set? crit sniper boost hits really hard, with fleur cannon/overheat as good coverage options. it also can beat stuff used as setup answers like prankster haze.
You can use :ss/pokemon-name: to put sprites in posts. In your case .
As for your set, it does look interesting, though I'm unsure if it'd be worth the setup seeing as Mega Mewtwo Y already has sets that can grant it immediate power. I'm welcome to be proven wrong but it looks to be outclassed.
Anaconja
TTTech
XxLazzerpenguinxX
Tea Guzzler
Chessking345
a loser
astralydia
Zovrah
Chansey (Imposter)
Gengar-Mega
Zacian-Crowned
Blissey (Imposter)
Groudon-Primal
Diancie-Mega
Mewtwo-Mega-Y
Greninja-Ash
Mewtwo-Mega-X
Zygarde-Complete
Eternatus
Xerneas
Giratina
Regigigas
Slaking
Swampert-Mega
Zamazenta-Crowned
Arceus
Charizard-Mega-Y
Deoxys-Attack
Dialga
Garchomp-Mega
Gyarados-Mega
Ho-Oh
Slowbro-Mega
Kartana
Solgaleo
Tyranitar-Mega
Audino-Mega
Blaziken-Mega
Celesteela
Metagross-Mega
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Palkia
Snorlax
Zacian
Giratina-Origin
Kyurem-Black
Lunala
Melmetal
Necrozma-Ultra
Rayquaza
Salamence-Mega
Scizor-Mega
Suicune
Venusaur-Mega
Zekrom
Darmanitan-Zen
Kangaskhan (-Mega)
Lugia
Magearna
Steelix-Mega
Tapu Fini
Aerodactyl-Mega
Cresselia
Dragapult
Guzzlord
Kyurem-White
Latias-Mega
.