National Dex Anything Goes Metagame Discussion

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I am an old player of NatDex AG, and I almost only (99%) play NatDex AG every day, hours per day.

It took me years to understand exactly why I was playing on Pokemon Showdown so much, and I finally understood. It is because of the creative aspect. Obviously building a new team is a creative act. But what I had not understood before is that the simple act of playing, choosing one move rather than another move, is like painting using one color rather than another color from the palette of colors.

And I suspect a lot of you play for the same reason without even knowing it. You play when you are bored. A netflix series would not do the job because you have no interaction, you do not act, you play no role in it. Food is just pleasure, and to be creative you would have to cook but there is no interaction with another human being, you would cook alone, no fun. So here you are... connecting to Showdown to play NatDex AG again.... because you want, you need, to create something beautiful, something meaningful that you can share, that someone else can witness. You want to create a beautiful game where your victory was a beauty, a piece of art (together with pumping your ego etc, everything that applies to other tiers apply here as well, I just focus on the particularities of that specific tier, why this tier rather than another tier).


I don't play NatDex AG in order to achieve some rank (I often play with random accounts)
I play for fun. For the creativity fun. Because I enjoy winning in new ways, finding new strategies, fun strategies, surprise my opponent, it's almost an art.
For example, I have a team based on putting the opponent asleep (sleeping clause not in AG).
Or for example I created some very strong "only level 1" FEAR team that I play once in a while. Clearly I do not play it to achieve any ranking, instead, I play it because it feels different. Playing with only level1 pokemons has a different taste. Every strategy has a different taste. And when I feel full of the same food (so to speak) I create new teams with new tastes. Or I pick some old team that I haven't tasted for a while. And hours and hours go by... every day.
(By the way that level 1 team has recently stopped working because "Berry Juice" has been banned. Why?)


Bottomline: keep Dynamax, keep all items, keep everything. NatDex AG is about creativity. The mother of all Anything Goes tiers.
In NatDex AG, any thing goes... any. There ought to be at least one tier like this. We need to preserve this. If you want you can rename it "The Wild", but honestly "Anything Goes" speaks for itself... and that is what players (those who actually play that tier) are looking for... looking for somewhere where anything goes..

(coding side, we could simply select in TeamBuilder which mimick is activated from a dropdown menu (similar to how we select which type for Tera). So far the list would be "Dynamax, Terastallize" and we would select one of those two. That would solve the in-game problem as this would only display one activation box in-game. And it is future-proof.)


If you are not convinced, you can always make a test. Create a new tier named "NatDex AG Wild" where everything is allowed (all items and Dynamax etc). Wait 2 months. Then at the end of the 2 months compare the number of live played games vs the other tier. You could even keep both tiers if the number of played games is high on both, or remove the less played one.
It's free to test. Nobody is forced to play anything they don't want. Nobody loses anything.

Please.. we ought to keep at least one tier where anything goes...



This post was in reply to the thread to which I have not sufficient privileges to reply: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-identity-of-national-dex-again.3711414/
 
ignoring wether anyone at smogon wants to program it would adding dynamx actually be good.

choices specs torch song dynamax fire tera skeledirge is not only a mouthull to say but also would be hitting expediently hard

tera and dynamax would probably stack which would be a nightmare
 

The one and only buck

Banned deucer.
ignoring wether anyone at smogon wants to program it would adding dynamx actually be good.

choices specs torch song dynamax fire tera skeledirge is not only a mouthull to say but also would be hitting expediently hard

tera and dynamax would probably stack which would be a nightmare
Well ig it’d still be playable but honestly I think the actual ndag is funnier and hopefully they won’t code it.

Skeledirge ISNT an offensive pressure. It has never been one. It’s used as a defensive wall in svag while it’s not even viable in ndag. Dynamax isn’t changing anything to that mon.
 
tera and dynamax would probably stack which would be a nightmare
Easy solution: they don't stack.
Just like mega-evolution and Dynamax didn't stack.

From a coding perspective, we can use the same set-up than for the choice of Tera type in team builder.
You see that drop-down menu on your pokemon in teambuilder where you can select the Tera type for your pokemon?
We could have the same kind of drop-down menu where you would select wether "Dyna" option or "Tera" option will be available to your pokemon. If you choose Dyna, then you will have the option in-game to Dynamax your pokemon. And if you choose Tera, then you will have the option in-game to Terastalize your pokemon. They can't stack, can't do both on the same pokemon. But of course you can Dynamax one of them, and Terastalise another one (just like you can have one Mega evolution on one pokemon, and still Terastilize another one).
And if there is anything new in the future, in the next generation, just add them to the drop-down menu list. They won't stack either.



Well ig it’d still be playable but honestly I think the actual ndag is funnier and hopefully they won’t code it.
Just like keeping Z-moves when we had mega-evolution was funnier, just like keeping mega-evolutions and Z-moves when Dynamax arrived was funnier.... so too will keeping Dynamax (not stackable on the same pokemon) with Tera will be funnier.
In any case, it's free to test it out for 2 months.
 
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Guys guys
Let’s have some of these insight on gen9ndag top ladder.
Over 90% of logical rb(short for revival blessing) assist teams have been tested by me personally with laughter during the past two weeks,and that one team I choose to show is a strict counter to arceus stackers.
I will do address several weaknesses u can’t ignore down here.
1.espeed arceus
The fact that arceus can use both recover and recycle makes it far superior than megaray when it all comes down to whether or not u can shut it down completely.
Whenever u saw ur foe is using more than one arc, u have to be ready for espeed,eq,shadow claw,recycle leppa and toxic.
Maybe there are even more common variations,but my point is that shedinja cant force arc out every single time.
And if u carry a shedinja in ur team as a arc counter,then u will almost lose every single time ur shedinja lose to arc.
Psy surge+chatot is ur best chance against arc stackers.
2.greedy az stall
Greed is truly good in this occasion.
The greedier a stall team is,the harder for u to beatem.
A no-spin glim can dish out all the hazards then switch into several whirlwind users and gg will be called.
Even if you put a magic bouncer in ur team can’t counter that,the only practical way to dance around it is simply not to keep queuing the ladder afterwards every time u come across a stall spammer.
Cuz stall is a overall BELOW-AVERAGE choice if u look at the bigger match up picture.
Just let ho teams crush stall teams and wait for the meta turning to ur favor as it will be.
3.recycle sticky holder
I can classify it to greed stall either, but I decided to single it out.
The only theoretical counter to sticky recycler would be the ability ‘pick up’,it grands a pokemon the ability of automatically picking up a berry the turn ur foe consumed it .
The thing is you have to maneuver the switch dozens of times to get it off,and that mon is absolute garbage when u are not facing a sticky recycler.
Well,to be fair,a sticky recycler itself is also utter garbage.
So I d rather not to have a 1for1 slot trade just for some extremely rare scenarios,like literally 3times in around 2weeks.
4.elo system
Do notice that any ladders in any games themselves are but a journey of percentage.
The problem is there’re not that many high rank players out there for u to experience a cute peaceful 60%win rate without dropping mmr.
So you could definitely be happy with ur barely gaining 4 victories in a row,and got all flaming in a heartbeat when that 1 insignificant casual loss completely wiped out what these 4W gave u with tip,WITH TIP!
Like 4W1L=-5 could literally happen to anyone and pls do pause ur grinding at once whenever that happens.
Ngl,even with all these counters out there,rb assist still holds a pretty tight win rate.
It’s just that the win rate u need to gather is incredibly high and other trendy teams are not really having a leap on that.
So basically just have fun and here is a replay that shows you can tie the mirror without ditto.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexag-1752289186-8cncstyme215ir5dagrc7rki94d9kyhpw
 

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The one and only buck

Banned deucer.
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Guys guys
Let’s have some of these insight on gen9ndag top ladder.
Over 90% of logical rb(short for revival blessing) assist teams have been tested by me personally with laughter during the past two weeks,and that one team I choose to show is a strict counter to arceus stackers.
I will do address several weaknesses u can’t ignore down here.
1.espeed arceus
The fact that arceus can use both recover and recycle makes it far superior than megaray when it all comes down to whether or not u can shut it down completely.
Whenever u saw ur foe is using more than one arc, u have to be ready for espeed,eq,shadow claw,recycle leppa and toxic.
Maybe there are even more common variations,but my point is that shedinja cant force arc out every single time.
And if u carry a shedinja in ur team as a arc counter,then u will almost lose every single time ur shedinja lose to arc.
Psy surge+chatot is ur best chance against arc stackers.
2.greedy az stall
Greed is truly good in this occasion.
The greedier a stall team is,the harder for u to beatem.
A no-spin glim can dish out all the hazards then switch into several whirlwind users and gg will be called.
Even if you put a magic bouncer in ur team can’t counter that,the only practical way to dance around it is simply not to keep queuing the ladder afterwards every time u come across a stall spammer.
Cuz stall is a overall BELOW-AVERAGE choice if u look at the bigger match up picture.
Just let ho teams crush stall teams and wait for the meta turning to ur favor as it will be.
3.recycle sticky holder
I can classify it to greed stall either, but I decided to single it all.
The only theoretical counter to sticky recycler would be the ability ‘pick up’,it grands a pokemon the ability of automatically picking up a berry the turn ur foe consumed it .
The thing is you have to maneuver the switch dozens of times to get it off,and that mon is absolutely garbage when u are not facing a sticky recycler.
Well,to be fair,a sticky recycler itself is also utter garbage.
So I d rather not to have a 1for1 slot trade just for some extremely rare scenarios,like literally 3times in around 2weeks.
4.elo system
Do notice that any ladders in any games themselves are but a journey of percentage.
The problem is there’re not that many high rank players out there for u to experience a cute peaceful 60%win rate without dropping mmr.
So you could definitely be happy with ur barely gaining 4 victories in a row,and got all flaming in a heartbeat when that 1 insignificant casual loss completely wiped out what these 4W gave u with tip,WITH TIP!
Like 4W1L=-5 could literally happen to anyone and pls do pause ur grinding at once whenever that happens.
Ngl,even with all these counters out there,rb assist still holds a pretty tight win rate.
It’s just that the win rate u need to gather is incredibly high and other trendy teams are not really having a leap on that.
So basically just have fun and here is a replay that shows you can tie the mirror without ditto.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexag-1752289186-8cncstyme215ir5dagrc7rki94d9kyhpw
Huh.
1. Leppa arc isn’t that common from what I’ve seen. More importantly, it’s not to be expected that much (and I run double ekiller myself) as anyone would see why it’s a terrible item to give arceus. It’s useless every single time you are not facing liepard spam teams.
2. Why would stall be a “below-average” play style in the first place. It’s not very perfect imo but it’s more consistent than most teams, notably most HOs. Explain ur point pls.
3. A 60% win rate isn’t good at all. Just like winning 4 games in a row means nothing, nor would it be THAT SATISFYING.
4. Most important point of all, “top ladder” itself isn’t very impressive nor does it mean anything. Tbh I’d say w/e u do on ladder follows the same path if you do not reach #1.
 
Huh.
1. Leppa arc isn’t that common from what I’ve seen. More importantly, it’s not to be expected that much (and I run double ekiller myself) as anyone would see why it’s a terrible item to give arceus. It’s useless every single time you are not facing liepard spam teams.
2. Why would stall be a “below-average” play style in the first place. It’s not very perfect imo but it’s more consistent than most teams, notably most HOs. Explain ur point pls.
3. A 60% win rate isn’t good at all. Just like winning 4 games in a row means nothing, nor would it be THAT SATISFYING.
4. Most important point of all, “top ladder” itself isn’t very impressive nor does it mean anything. Tbh I’d say w/e u do on ladder follows the same path if you do not reach #1.
stall is not good enough bc
A.dmax is gonna come back at some point,and stall takes a huge hit from it
B.recovery moves now only have 8pp
C.skilled ho players can beat stall
About the enjoyment ppl get from ladder is that mmr is just a number and top 1 has no difference than top 1000 if you start to fall into a 50-50cliche.
Cuz by the time u start to be unable to make sure almost nobody can specifically swap team and hope to revenge queue into u,u should definitely just transform to a brand new 1k smurf.
I know u value honor,skill and dignity higher than other things,well let’s just say I’m a practical kinda guy.
The thing is once u realized elo system has a threshold between ez points and hard points,ur optimal strategy is literally just to use that as a thermometer for testing ur own comfort zone.
Ultimately everyone wanna keep playing in their own comfort zone and collecting ez points for free to be happy.
Our biggest difference is that you only measure ur achievements by signature material so in your perspective you won’t be happy when you go all the way down from almost 2k to around 1800.
But in my perspective this team has defied my comfort zone as a pretty damn big room and I’m just happy when I’m playing in it.
The reason why every team tutorial should make sure which part of the ladder it can work at is been tested is bc that’s the only way to measure how big the comfort zone this team gives to its users.
If a team has beaten one or several top1 players then it means everyone who’s using it can lay back and say ‘if I learn how to spam that nonsense,I’m all good for this generation.’
That’s the only win in my book.
In fact,if u didn’t take a screenshot of u being top1,then I recommend u to do so right now. Call it a job well done and don’t try it again.
One unnecessary trip to the South Pole makes u looked cool,the second one would be craving for the margin.
 
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Huh.
1. Leppa arc isn’t that common from what I’ve seen. More importantly, it’s not to be expected that much (and I run double ekiller myself) as anyone would see why it’s a terrible item to give arceus. It’s useless every single time you are not facing liepard spam teams.
2. Why would stall be a “below-average” play style in the first place. It’s not very perfect imo but it’s more consistent than most teams, notably most HOs. Explain ur point pls.
3. A 60% win rate isn’t good at all. Just like winning 4 games in a row means nothing, nor would it be THAT SATISFYING.
4. Most important point of all, “top ladder” itself isn’t very impressive nor does it mean anything. Tbh I’d say w/e u do on ladder follows the same path if you do not reach #1.
Leppa berry is not a common thing,that I agree with.
But it makes beginners way too frustrating to face it the 1st time or even the 2nd time.
And be aware of revenge queuers.
If anyone asks me about how to deal with em,my answer would just be like what I wrote up there,u stop queuing immediately and grab a calm down beer.
I believe some players are gonna use this strategy to have their 1st time top ladder experience and they need to have these answers to search for.
Gaming or anything is never about one guy selfishly being better or the best, any value that denies it is plain naivety.
 

The one and only buck

Banned deucer.
stall is not good enough bc
A.dmax is gonna come back at some point,and stall takes a huge hit from it
B.recovery moves now only have 8pp
C.skilled ho players can beat stall
About the enjoyment ppl get from ladder is that mmr is just a number and top 1 has no difference than top 1000 if you start to fall into a 50-50cliche.
Cuz by the time u start to be unable to make sure almost nobody can specifically swap team and hope to revenge queue into u,u should definitely just transform to a brand new 1k smurf.
I know u value honor,skill and dignity higher than other things,well let’s just say I’m a practical kinda guy.
The thing is once u realized elo system has a threshold between ez points and hard points,ur optimal strategy is literally just to use that as a thermometer for testing ur own comfort zone.
Ultimately everyone wanna keep playing in their own comfort zone and collecting ez points for free to be happy.
Our biggest difference is that you only measure ur achievements by signature material so in your perspective you won’t be happy when you go all the way down from almost 2k to around 1800.
But in my perspective this team has defied my comfort zone as a pretty damn big room and I’m just happy when I’m playing in it.
The reason why every team tutorial should make sure which part of the ladder it can work at is been tested is bc that’s the only way to measure how big the comfort zone this team gives to its users.
If a team has beaten one or several top1 players then it means everyone who’s using it can lay back and say ‘if I learn how to spam that nonsense,I’m all good for this generation.’
That’s the only win in my book.
In fact,if u didn’t take a screenshot of u being top1,then I recommend u to do so right now. Call it a job well done and don’t try it again.
One unnecessary trip to the South Pole makes u looked cool,the second one would be craving for the margin.
Most of the things u said here r cap.
1. Ur first reason why something isn’t good is because of another thing coming in a near/far future. Idk if u realize how senseless this is.
2. You seem to not understand anything about ladder. At no point is #1 comparable to any other position.
3. “The thing is once u realized elo system has a threshold between ez points and hard points,ur optimal strategy is literally just to use that as a thermometer for testing ur own comfort zone.” Concepts such as comfort zones are just as empty as that explanation. There’s nothing such as a comfort zone. If u just spam the same thing everyday without results then ur wasting ur time. Same if ur just doing it for “fun”. I won’t speak for every player but I’d say ur very wrong when u say “Ultimately everyone wanna keep playing in their own comfort zone and collecting ez points for free to be happy.” Ur speaking for everyone but what u just said is purely ur own point of view. You’d be surprised to hear that most people don’t think like that. At least non-casual player.
4. I’m not sure if that’s what u implied but: a team beating someone who peaked =/= that team is good or (insert w/e u were implying when u said “If a team has beaten one or several top1 players then it means everyone who’s using it can lay back and say ‘if I learn how to spam that nonsense,I’m all good for this generation.’”) It might be a win in ur “book” but it simply doesn’t matter.
5. I respectfully do not need u to give me ur opi about what I should do with my achievements. I did save my peak and showcased the team, eventually tilted as it was bound to happen, and still try to do it, again. Ur point of view seems to be type which would restrain progress and improvement in any1 listening to it. One trip to the South Pole IS cool,the second one would simply be testing your limits to do better and eventually improve.
 
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Most of the things u said here r cap.
1. Ur first reason why something isn’t good is because of another thing coming in a near/far future. Idk if u realize how senseless this is.
2. You seem to not understand anything about ladder. At no point is #1 comparable to any other position.
3. “The thing is once u realized elo system has a threshold between ez points and hard points,ur optimal strategy is literally just to use that as a thermometer for testing ur own comfort zone.” Concepts such as comfort zones are just as empty as that explanation. There’s nothing such as a comfort zone. If u just spam the same thing everyday without results then ur wasting ur time. Same if ur just doing it for “fun”. I won’t speak for every player but I’d say ur very wrong when u say “Ultimately everyone wanna keep playing in their own comfort zone and collecting ez points for free to be happy.” Ur speaking for everyone but what u just said is purely ur own point of view. You’d be surprised to hear that most people don’t think like that. At least non-casual player.
4. I’m not sure if that’s what u implied but: a team beating someone who peaked =/= that team is good or (insert w/e u were implying when u said “If a team has beaten one or several top1 players then it means everyone who’s using it can lay back and say ‘if I learn how to spam that nonsense,I’m all good for this generation.’”) It might be a win in ur “book” but it simply doesn’t matter.
5. I respectfully do not need u to give me ur opi about what I should do with my achievements. I did save my peak and showcased the team, eventually tilted as it was bound to happen, and still try to do it, again. Ur point of view seems to be type which would restrain progress and improvement in any1 listening to it. One trip to the South Pole IS cool,the second one would simply be testing your limits to do better and eventually improve.
I respect ur opinions even though we are two completely different types of people.
And you just reacted like exactly what I said u are, so good luck anyway.
 
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https://pokepast.es/1c4c5274af026072 <== shed team


The 'Goal' of the team is to weaken the opponent enough so that shed can clean out afterwards, or simply don't tera shed and use the others to win
Shedinja was the central focus of the team, and Cyclizar offers spinning support and shed tail support for most of the team. Gengar can hopefully trap an opposing pokemon and take them out or set up in their face. Miraidon is very good as a standalone mon as well as having lots of power, Zygarde because paralyzing everything is clearly balanced, and Regieleki can explode to deal with a threat, or wild charge to take care of something else (Also it's funny and somewhat practical).
Fun Fact: Regieleki's explosion in this team has 75% chance to OHKO Blissey
I have faced a grand total of 3 liepard spam teams, but they could be dealt with using Eleki espeed or simply encore trap to waste pp of assist
The original version of this team included tyranitar and houndstone as a backup plan, but that's obviously stupid so I dropped them
 

Tahz

Banned deucer.
dont know if its a good place to ask but how do you play a balanced team in ndag? i am completely new to the playstyle and feels weird when i try to play it. i heard its doing great and i want to try it out.
 
Personally, I am super happy with dynamax being out of the format. Terastalization is just a much more fun mechanic to deal with than dynamaxing. It actually brought me back into the game because I don't have to deal with dynamaxing ever again.

Just compare tera and dyna on Geomancy Xerneas.

Tera Geomancy Xerneas - Xerneas turns into a different type, getting rid of its STAB on moonblast to survive a hit from its check and strike back at (sometimes) weaker strength. It may even become vulnerable to your opponent's other mons. Playing around Xerneas is a bit harder than usual but not impossible if you know what you're doing.

Dyna Geomancy Xerneas - you better not let Xerneas use Geomancy otherwise you're sacrificing 3 mons or using your own Dyna to Max Guard its attacks and then deal with a Geomancy Xerneas afterwards if youre mad just use your own dyna to sweep my team lmao

Just my experience with this shift imo
while i agree that dynamax isnt fun, it should still be here. its nat dex ag. the whole point is having all generational mechanics, all mons, and all mons have access to every move they've legally had access to. i understand programming difficulties but it appears that there are no plans to add it at all

So.
Ability Patches now allow for a Pokémon with its hidden ability to go back to having its regular ability (and from there, an ability capsule can be used to make their ability become the second one.)

This means that a Pokémon from generation 1 (or 2) can now have transfer-only moves while also having their non-hidden abilities.
As a result of that, this utter monstrosity is legal.

Machamp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fissure
- Cross Chop
- Poison Jab
- Throat Chop

Yes, THIS is legal now. At least, it should be. Can someone fix the validator for gen 9 natdex?

Unless of course, we make it so that Pokémon who aren't in SV yet can't have any special ingame mechanics from SV applied to them (e.g. new TMs, the Tera Type Changer, and new-style Ability Patches), however this would make it so that Pokémon that aren't in SV are limited to only having a Tera Type of one of their two base form's types (or a type that a pre-evolution has.)
wouldn't you run dynamic punch over cross chop
 

Muhammad al-Khaliq

Banned deucer.
hey gays i just realized something. on ps, koraidon doesn't get its orichalcum pulse attack boost in primal groudon's desolate land. is this intentional or a bug?

here;s proof that it works like that:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexag-1758538158-x3hzw2c5a5tuh1jyun8ifkhqtcj4zyjpw

252 Atk Koraidon Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Groudon-Primal: 133-157 (33 - 38.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO

252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Groudon-Primal: 178-210 (44.1 - 52.1%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO

orichalcum pulse clearly worked the second time but not the first, as it did 35% and then 47%

while i agree that dynamax isnt fun, it should still be here. its nat dex ag. the whole point is having all generational mechanics, all mons, and all mons have access to every move they've legally had access to. i understand programming difficulties but it appears that there are no plans to add it at all
if ndag is meant to have all mechanics and mons and moves then why can't i use berserk gene lovely kiss snorlax in it?
 
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if ndag is meant to have all mechanics and mons and moves then why can't i use berserk gene lovely kiss snorlax in it?
fair enough, i phrased that poorly. natdex is designed to have all mechanics, items, moves, and mons that have been removed since generation 8 because gen 8 is when they started cutting enough of those to have a significant impact on the meta.
 
How viable is Zacian in this format? Does it have a niche over other offensive Pokemon, like Rayquaza, Xerneas, Marshadow, and Miraidon?
 
https://pokepast.es/1c4c5274af026072 <== shed team


The 'Goal' of the team is to weaken the opponent enough so that shed can clean out afterwards, or simply don't tera shed and use the others to win
Shedinja was the central focus of the team, and Cyclizar offers spinning support and shed tail support for most of the team. Gengar can hopefully trap an opposing pokemon and take them out or set up in their face. Miraidon is very good as a standalone mon as well as having lots of power, Zygarde because paralyzing everything is clearly balanced, and Regieleki can explode to deal with a threat, or wild charge to take care of something else (Also it's funny and somewhat practical).
Fun Fact: Regieleki's explosion in this team has 75% chance to OHKO Blissey
I have faced a grand total of 3 liepard spam teams, but they could be dealt with using Eleki espeed or simply encore trap to waste pp of assist
The original version of this team included tyranitar and houndstone as a backup plan, but that's obviously stupid so I dropped them
Why not run Secret Power over X-Scissor on shed? It's non-contact.
 
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heatmoron

Banned deucer.
If we're going to ban funbro, we might as well ban this bullshit new assist revival blessing cancer.
Both strategies are not really strategies, but meant to infuriate the opponent and not actually win the game, but prolong it.
Every anti-funbro argument can easily apply for banning Assist calling Revival Blessing.
Funbro has more counterplay than cancer cats. It's less anti-competitive.
Free funbro or ban revive cats.
 

heatmoron

Banned deucer.
if you're going to cope and whine that funbro is "anti-competitive" and only used to troll people, it is. but so is revivecats.
Funbro has way more counterplay, knock off kills it, trick, etc... with revivecats you're FUCKED unless you have 6 pokemon with extremespeed, and they can always just terra ghost to stop the one "Counterplay" you have available. If you don't prepare for revivecats, you're fucked, while Funbro can only succeed when wielded by a skillful trainer who gets all of funbro's usual counters out of the way before he uses his wincon.
 
Revivecat is just stall. Assist has a limited amount of pp, it's not same as Recycle + Leppa Berry.

Basically, you need to learn how to deal with it, or play some other format.

Also, Natdex AG isn't meant to be competitive. Funbro is banned because it can stretch to indefinite number of turns.
 

heatmoron

Banned deucer.
Funbro is banned because a bunch of youtubers whined about it when its really easy to just click x. funbro is a legitimate win condition. the funbro user has to skillfully get rid of all funbro's usual counters. like EVERY OTHER WINCON EVER.
any moron can spam revivecats. where the ultimate goal is not to win, but to waste as much of the opponent's time as possible. exact same logic.
If you're going to ban one, you cannot logically keep the other legal. Both cancerous forms of stall but one requires exponentially more skill to utilize than the other.
 

heatmoron

Banned deucer.
When you look at Funbro as more of a win condition than a time waster, you suddenly realize that it is far more fair and honest than revivecancer. The Funbro user is not going to forfeit when he catches you in his trap that you were foolish enough to fall for. If funbro gets in, he wins. You click X and move on to the next battle, prepare yourself for Funbro because its a legitimate meta threat.
This reminds me of when Finchinator built a crappy team that got 6-0'd by lead Kyruem (a game which might I mention, he performed very poorly in regardless of his poorly constructed team and inability to account for the top tier threat Kyruem as he sacrificed the only Pokemon who could outspeed Kyruem) and because he made a bad team and played poorly, people were convinced that it was Kyruem's fault and not simply Finch playing poorly with his bad team. This is the exact same logic with funbro. Stop building shitty teams that lose to it.
 
It's not going to be banned, being uncompetitive or broken is completely irrelevant since this is Natdex AG, where No Guard Fissure Machamp is legal.

I would suggest including 1 or 2 members with Extremespeed (Arceus/Mega Ray/Zygarde/Deoxys etc) as counterplay to Prankster Assist. Its annoying but far from unbeatable.
 
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