AG National Dex Anything Goes Metagame Discussion

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I would rather mega/z-move out-prioritize dynamax and tera; having the mega stone/z-crystal is a pretty strong indicator that they want to use that mechanic (as opposed to the mechanics that are always available). Otherwise you're just disabling z-moves (and ultra burst/primals).

So Z-Move > Mega > Tera <=> Dyna, where Tera > Dyna unless an invalid tera type is chosen.

Also, are you saying that this would be on the same mon? I can't really tell, but I assumed not, given the precedent that z-moves currently override dynamax/tera and after z-move usage the option still isn't available.

An implementation of this is always going to be arbitrary, but the goal is to reduce the amount of clashes between mechanics as much as possible. If you're incentivized to use one mechanic in order to use another, that's a pretty strong example of mechanic interaction.
Yes, this is on the same mon. You would set your list of preference for each mon in the team builder. In this scenario, you would always have a valid tera type chosen, so the tiebreaker is decided by the what was set in the team builder.

You mentioned the following earlier.
Primals should not be able to Tera, that being in there is a bug right now imo.

Under your implementation, is stuff that set a tera type able to dynamax if tera has been used? Such a mechanic would be more in line with how natdex handled rayquaza's ability to dynamax (removing the conflict -- mega evolution -- allowed use of the hidden mechanic)

I assume not given your description, but I'll ask it anyway.
The logic could be extended to megas and z-moves as well.

Nothing is really set in stone, yet. Just asking for clarification on how to proceed.
 
But I have to ask, is this what people want? Or would it be preferable that you select one gimmick each mon will use in the teambuilder and restrict it that way? I think that the above interaction with z-move and mega is not technically possible. (Rayquaza that holds a z-crystal cannot mega-evolve even if a different mon already used a z-move.)
I think it would probably be fine if Z-moves and Megas worked like the previous gen, i.e. pokemon holding a Z-crystal or Mega stone are not eligible to Dynamax or Terastallize. As for Dynamax and Terrastall, if would be nice if every mon on your team could be assigned a valid Tera type, and then when you're in a battle and still have both of those options available to you, you could freely choose between them by selecting one of two buttons.
 
Personally, I am super happy with dynamax being out of the format. Terastalization is just a much more fun mechanic to deal with than dynamaxing. It actually brought me back into the game because I don't have to deal with dynamaxing ever again.

Just compare tera and dyna on Geomancy Xerneas.

Tera Geomancy Xerneas - Xerneas turns into a different type, getting rid of its STAB on moonblast to survive a hit from its check and strike back at (sometimes) weaker strength. It may even become vulnerable to your opponent's other mons. Playing around Xerneas is a bit harder than usual but not impossible if you know what you're doing.

Dyna Geomancy Xerneas - you better not let Xerneas use Geomancy otherwise you're sacrificing 3 mons or using your own Dyna to Max Guard its attacks and then deal with a Geomancy Xerneas afterwards if youre mad just use your own dyna to sweep my team lmao

Just my experience with this shift imo
 
Personally, I am super happy with dynamax being out of the format. Terastalization is just a much more fun mechanic to deal with than dynamaxing. It actually brought me back into the game because I don't have to deal with dynamaxing ever again.

Just compare tera and dyna on Geomancy Xerneas.

Tera Geomancy Xerneas - Xerneas turns into a different type, getting rid of its STAB on moonblast to survive a hit from its check and strike back at (sometimes) weaker strength. It may even become vulnerable to your opponent's other mons. Playing around Xerneas is a bit harder than usual but not impossible if you know what you're doing.

Dyna Geomancy Xerneas - you better not let Xerneas use Geomancy otherwise you're sacrificing 3 mons or using your own Dyna to Max Guard its attacks and then deal with a Geomancy Xerneas afterwards if youre mad just use your own dyna to sweep my team lmao

Just my experience with this shift imo
Mons don't lose their original STAB after tera, it just get a new STAB (or strengthen one existing STAB) and change the type on the defensive side. So things are actually tera Xern will be harder to be revenged. The firepower is of course not as much as Dyna.

So you may find things like CalyS is now extremely hard to deal with. With tera Normal or Dark its previous counters just lose to things like Nasty Plot (or you click shadow sneak on Normal tera and get killed by Astral)
 
I think it’s hard to argue that replacing Dynamax with Terastal makes for a healthier metagame, if for no other reason than how Calyrex-S interacts with each.

Last gen, Caly-S was still very good, but it wasn’t out of control. The ubiquity of Yveltal played a huge part in keeping Caly-S in check, for various reasons. First of all, it really lessened the viability of running Scarf. It was very scary to lock into Astral Barrage when the opponent still had Yveltal in the back. If they hard switch in, they take negligible damage, and now you're really in a lose-lose-lose situation. Your only way to do any appreciable amount of damage is to Dynamax and click Max Starfall, but if they Sucker Punch you get no damage and lose your Dynamax. Even if they don't Sucker Punch, you're losing your Caly-S, either to a Dark attack or Max Airstream followed by Max Darkness. If you hard switch out and they Max Airstream, you're now up against the scariest Dynamax sweeper in the format with enough speed to OHKO Zacian-Crowned with Max Flare. Focus Sash Caly-S still had a really bad Yveltal matchup, but at least you had some mind game options, such as punishing Sucker Punch with Nasty Plot or Sub.

Another reason that Focus Sash was preferable to Scarf was because of the prevalence of priority that would OHKO Caly-S. In addition to the aforementioned Sucker Punch, Shadow Sneak was also quite prevalent in the meta, especially on Marshadow, which would itself typically run Sash.

Because Focus Sash was the more popular item choice on Caly-S, Ditto became a very important threat. Many games would be decided by whether or not Caly-S's Sash could be broken so that Ditto could come in to revenge sweep, and it was not uncommon to find yourself in a situation in which your Caly-S was actually more of a liability than an asset. Ditto was already very popular due to its role as a Zacian-Crowned counter, and so this further tempered Caly-S's dominance.

Now consider Caly-S in the current meta (Terastal but no Dynamax). Firstly, its biggest check is now severely nerfed: without the ability to Dynamax, Yveltal is much worse overall. Secondly, its survivability is hugely increased. If it Terastallizes to Normal, Dark, or Fairy, it no longer auto-dies to Sucker Punch or Shadow Sneak. If it chooses to Terastallize to Fairy, it now threatens many things that previously might wall it. If it chooses to Terastallize to Normal, it can now Imposter-proof itself and play annoying mind games in the mirror match. This boost to its survivability (especially versus priority) means that Choice Scarf sets are much better than they previously were, and I think this poses a real issue for over-centralization.
 
This version has more substantial code changes, but it will let you choose which gimmick to prioritize, (all mons can dynamax** and tera, but are each limited to one gimmick). Posted an image of how it would work. Should be easy enough to tweak to force only 1 gimmick each or prioritize certain ones like megas/zmove.
Not really happy with how the teambuilder is set and needs bugtesting, but should be working for now.

**Except zacian, zamazenta, and eternatus
 

Attachments

Here's a really silly Shed Tail team I used to get decently high on the ladder. It's gimmicky as all hell, but I'm having some fun with it.
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Cyclizar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Spinner
- Shed Tail

Shedinja @ Air Balloon
Ability: Wonder Guard
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic
- Agility
- Fury Cutter
- Baton Pass

Cyclizar and Shedinja are the crux of what makes this team work, and with scarf Cyclizar can outrun the entire unboosted metagame. Shedinja can get into potential auto-win positions, but that's not the point of Shedinja. In comes the main abuser:

Machamp @ Figy Berry
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fissure
- Dynamic Punch
- Bullet Punch
- Smack Down

No Guard and Fissure is a very balanced combination. Smack Down is there for Flying types, hence the attack investment, Bullet Punch is always nice to have priority for Focus Sash since this team lacks hazards and Dynamic Punch can fish for confusion on the switch, which is occasionally useful. It's mostly Fissure and Smack Down that make this set work.

From this point I was beginning to realize I needed a way to beat out Sand, so I realized another potentially monstrous abuser which could fill that role great: Primal Kyogre.

Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Water Spout
- Thunder

Hell hath no fury than a speed boosted Kyogre spamming max power Water Spout. Origin Pulse is there to have strong Water STAB, and since I don't need Calm Mind I can slot in Ice Beam and Thunder for all the coverage I could ever want.

My last two slots were admittedly filler, just to have strong setup sweepers that could get an opportunity to boost for free if I have to Shed Tail to them.

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Prism Armor
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Sunsteel Strike
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed

DM-Necro and Rayquaza are always amazing Pokemon on the majority of teams. I initially had Zacian-C for Necrozma but wasn't happy with how it could sometimes feel.
 
Shedinja @ Air Balloon
Ability: Wonder Guard
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic
- Agility
- Fury Cutter
- Baton Pass
Why Fury Cutter?
Secret Power has the same amount of PP, doesn't make contact, and has a 30% chance to paralyze. (Unless it's Misty/Psychic/Grassy Terrain)
Also, remove the DEF EVs and set your DEF and SPD IVs to 0. You're dead if something's able to hit your substitute.

Here's a Pokémon I enjoy trolling with.

Stall.mp4 (Brambleghast) @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SPD
Bold Nature
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Strength Sap
- Rapid Spin

Infiltrator is to bypass Substitute and win against Shedinja, and otherwise it's just a wall. It's able to tank banded Zygarde-Complete, which makes it useful when protecting my own Shed.
It also wins against FEAR Cottonee due to being grass type. Didn't even know that it helped against that until today when i fought against one.
 
Why Fury Cutter?
Secret Power has the same amount of PP, doesn't make contact, and has a 30% chance to paralyze. (Unless it's Misty/Psychic/Grassy Terrain)
Also, remove the DEF EVs and set your DEF and SPD IVs to 0. You're dead if something's able to hit your substitute.
Good catch on Fury Cutter, I didn't know Secret Power was better for it and being able to not make contact is great for avoiding Rocky Helmet.

Shedinja @ Air Balloon
Ability: Wonder Guard
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic
- Agility
- Secret Power
- Baton Pass

As for the Def EVs, I don't really have anywhere else to invest them since Atk and Spe are already maxed I definitely want to keep the speed IVs so I can actually outrun stuff at +2

As for Cyclizar I realized the set I had was inneficient, so I have a better one:

Cyclizar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Rapid Spin
- Dragon Tail
- Shed Tail

Dragon Tail on a scarf set sounds silly, but having a phasing move is nice and I realized Ice Spinner was worthless since it wasn't OHKOing Rayquaza on the switch. Maybe I could give it Knock Off, but I dunno, it's not really supposed to be doing damage and I already have a surprise nuke option on chipped dragons in Draco Meteor.

The EV spread is also a lot better, making Cyclizar tankier. I also change Hasty to Naive to slightly take physical hits like stray priority better. This was an optimization I admittedly took advantage of in OU, but I realized it should better in AG with Dragon Tail being generally more useful
 
Before I write my opinions I'll just preface this by saying I've seen plenty of team archetypes and trends lately. For sake of simplicity I'll only go over changes from Gen 8 NDAG. For reference I usually play set up sweeper teams, aka basically that one gen 8 AG team but :Miraidon: instead of :Zacian:.

:Miraidon: - This guy is the new Zacian imo. An ability that boosts its already high Special Attack combined with terrain that completely shuts down Smeargle leads in low ladder, Miraidon is certainly a welcome addition to a variety of AG teams. Miraidon, I feel, is one of the few new mons that can hang out with the big boys on top. I certainly see the merits of scarf, but I'm more keen to run specs because Draco Meteor puts severe dents in would-be checks such as Arc-Ground and PDon. Alternatively, you have a pivot in Volt Switch which funnily enough does enough to Cyclizar to deny a sub.

:Shedinja: - Shedinja isn't exactly a new arrival to AG, but this gen has really given it a new lease on life. What I've noticed is towards the lower end of the ladder, Shedinja is almost exclusively paired with :Cyclizar: Cyclizar. As you go further up, Cyclizar is left behind for bulky defoggers (Ho-oh and Arc Rock/Ground are some examples). Shedinja's weakness are easily exploitable, and often you need to devote large portions of your team to make sure it can survive, but once you deal with the immediate threats, Shedinja is unkillable. It's already talked about to death so read the other posts if you want a better idea.

:Arceus: - EKiller Arceus loves the ability to tera Normal. This allows for Arceus to gain more of an edge for defensive pivots, notably turning a +2 ESpeed on PDon from a close 3HKO to a guaranteed 2HKO (on the defensive set; 252/56+). Interestingly, however, Arceus gains another niche which it did not previously have, and that is the ability to potentially revenge kill Calyrex SR. I'll touch on that more on its section.

:Calyrex-Shadow-Rider: - The horse that ruined Ubers, Calyrex has a variety of tools at its disposal. A very fun thing I've seen is opposing Calyrex tera Normal to blank Astral Barrage, allowing for the new normal type to claim a KO on its supposed ditto. It also likes tera Fairy to gain a boost on Draining Kiss, crippling Yveltal badly. As mentioned earlier, this leaves Calyrex vulnerable to EKiller Arceus, so take caution.

:Koraidon: - Honestly, Koraidon wishes it could be Miraidon. Not that it's not bad (it certainly isn't bad), but a lot of the more prominent AG staples can easily deal with Koraidon thanks to its typing. The only edges it really has are the fact that Sun can support mons better than electric terrain, and STAB Fighting is useful against some of the new Chinese legends running around.

:Xerneas: - Did you know Xerneas learned outrage? I genuinely didn't until I looked at the builder. Anyway, Xerneas has basically two options, Scarf or Geomancy. Defensive Xerneas from what I've seen falls short of accomplishing what it used to in the face of the Tera era. Scarf Moonblast is appreciated against the two new dragons and all the mons it loved to hit earlier on. As always, NDM shuts down Xerneas, so keep this in mind.

:Zygarde-Complete: Ah yes, this guy. Zygarde appreciates Thousand Arrows especially to pop tera Electric Shedinja. Support in the form of Glare is also much appreciated in a meta focused on Speed.

:Smeargle: :Scolipede: - Ugh, Baton Pass. So predictable, even in the era of Tera. Go ahead, lead Scolipede, click protect, then sub, then pass to whoever you want in the chain. There's a certain point where that strat doesn't work. You want to beat it? Lead a priority mon with a hazard, any hazard. Get it up on the protect turn, and priority on the other turn. Stack or pivot on the next protect turn and you should be good to go. Alternatively, prankster taunt. Congratulations you beat Baton Pass.

:Zacian-Crowned: - Look how they massacred my boy. Attack AND Ability nerf? My condolences. Yes, Zacian is strong, but not strong enough to chill with the big boys like it used to.

:Ditto: - Ditto, for better or worse, has a few more restrictions on it this time around. Unlike in Gen 8, Ditto can't suddenly DMax out of a bad move, giving it less immediate options in favor of going back to being a revenge killer...as you know, it usually is.

:Quagsire: :Dondozo: - You know, I haven't noticed as much unaware mons as I have in Gen 8. Is that because of a lack of DMax? The Zacian nerf? Something else?

:Roaring-Moon: - Why *don't* I see this guy? I feel like a +1 combined with Tera Ghost would take care of a lot of the threats around. What do you mean it barely misses base 120s and suffers from 4MSS?

Some other comments, priority is always good unless its Quick Attack and Vacuum Wave. There's a reason top people don't use Baton Pass. You mostly stop seeing gimmick temp6t teams at 1450. 1000-1400 seems like a separate tier from 1400-1700, which in turn seems like a separate tier from 1700+; build and play accordingly. It's AG, you're free to spam whatever you want, but there's a reason why some mons and playstyles are better than others. I might add more later...
 
My first impressions of the metagame from a week of play after playing Gen8 AG only for 6 months. Dont have much accomplishments besides hitting top 100 every day on new names which means borderline nothing, other than being experienced at swatting evasion boosting and baton passing. I did play Gen7 Ubers for a short time so im somewhat familiar with the older megas etc.

Just posting the most notable points since this metagame is so incredibly deep and complex with a bewildering list of viable and sorta-viable mons.

Terastalizing, I love it. Adds a lot of variety to the game and skill potential, even though it also increases matchup luck potential as well. I loved dynamaxing and will play Gen8AG again in the future just because I enjoy the mechanic that much but this new mechanic is great.

The metagame being offensive feels great, and the dissolving of the dreaded YEN core from gen8 ubers\AG is a great change of pace.

Tier King already IMO. It got helped by dynamaxing going away (enemy can no longer become twice as durable and tank its hits) However its both a good user of tera as well as a potential victim. Terastalizing into a normal type to dodge shadow sneaks\opposing astral barrage is great, but it goes the other way when they tera into normal to block your astral barrage. Its premium speed tier and snowballing capacities are obvious.

The best utility\filler mon, can obviously fill any role desired. Ground, Dark, Fairy, Normal Arceus are all great forms. Doesnt really require any elaboration as its been the best when allowed in metagames for a long time now.

Remains elite despite the presence of faster and harder hitting mons than ever. Its fast enough to be nimble and has good priority to atleast chip or revenge many mons. Just keep spamming Dragon Ascent, nothing can really deal with it.
My main man from Gen8AG fell off hard with the lack of dynamaxing and a slight increase in mons that cannot be copied. In addition being locked into a single move that could potentially be hitting an immunized enemy after terastalizing hurts. Still viable and useful but no longer S rank for sure.
In a metagame with infinite sleep spam a guy thats immune to Spore is invaluable. Honestly I struggle to make teams without this thing. Hazard support is great.
An expert at killing noobs. DD+Photon Geyser+Smart Strike beats a LOT of cheese and breaks unaware\wonder guard mons in half. Covert Cloak is an amazing new item that lets it DD up on Ho-Oh as they get salty in the chat for my being lucky in not getting burnt by sacred fire lmao. This set is pretty bad against well built high ladder teams though.

This guy is kinda OKish I guess? For me it plays like a worse Mega Reyquaza, being a Life Orb user that dies while smashing a hole in the opposing team. It seems like terastalizing into fire is almost mandatory with its bad defensive typing which makes it an expensive pick on a team.

This guy is a premier nuclear option, pretty much OHKOing everything and being a headache to switch into. Unfortunately I hate using this mon, because its dual stabs both have many immunities, even worse they could tera into those immunities and KO you instead out of nowhere. Its coin flip nature in picking the right STAB or whiffing on immunities has me skeptical it will be considered a top mon. I much prefer spammable STABs like Dragon Ascent.

+
Honestly this pairing is complete garbage and a mega noob trap. Probably the single most common pairing on the ladder and it fails a dozen different ways. Oh well, atleast its an easy win whenever you loadup against this pairing on low ladder.

I thought this guy could do something with its elite typing and speed\offenses, but I feel like AG is too fast and also too bulky for this guy. Either they outspeed you, or shadow sneak you, or simply sponge even a +1 attack and KO it.

One of my favourite mons ever, aesthetically and gameplay wise. Unfortunately this guy seems kinda hosed in the current metagame. I dont see it used often and it doesnt seem to offer much, besides only gaining physical attack moves in gen9 and not much. WHY does this STILL not have levitate?! ARGH

Other mons are just too many to list, such as the Primals, which are good all-rounders. Zygarde and Marshadow are great picks as usual.

Overall, this metagame is a blast;if only we had a National Dex Ubers tier with sleep and evasion clauses.
 

The one and only buck

Banned deucer.
My first impressions of the metagame from a week of play after playing Gen8 AG only for 6 months. Dont have much accomplishments besides hitting top 100 every day on new names which means borderline nothing, other than being experienced at swatting evasion boosting and baton passing. I did play Gen7 Ubers for a short time so im somewhat familiar with the older megas etc.

Just posting the most notable points since this metagame is so incredibly deep and complex with a bewildering list of viable and sorta-viable mons.

Terastalizing, I love it. Adds a lot of variety to the game and skill potential, even though it also increases matchup luck potential as well. I loved dynamaxing and will play Gen8AG again in the future just because I enjoy the mechanic that much but this new mechanic is great.

The metagame being offensive feels great, and the dissolving of the dreaded YEN core from gen8 ubers\AG is a great change of pace.

Tier King already IMO. It got helped by dynamaxing going away (enemy can no longer become twice as durable and tank its hits) However its both a good user of tera as well as a potential victim. Terastalizing into a normal type to dodge shadow sneaks\opposing astral barrage is great, but it goes the other way when they tera into normal to block your astral barrage. Its premium speed tier and snowballing capacities are obvious.

The best utility\filler mon, can obviously fill any role desired. Ground, Dark, Fairy, Normal Arceus are all great forms. Doesnt really require any elaboration as its been the best when allowed in metagames for a long time now.

Remains elite despite the presence of faster and harder hitting mons than ever. Its fast enough to be nimble and has good priority to atleast chip or revenge many mons. Just keep spamming Dragon Ascent, nothing can really deal with it.
My main man from Gen8AG fell off hard with the lack of dynamaxing and a slight increase in mons that cannot be copied. In addition being locked into a single move that could potentially be hitting an immunized enemy after terastalizing hurts. Still viable and useful but no longer S rank for sure.
In a metagame with infinite sleep spam a guy thats immune to Spore is invaluable. Honestly I struggle to make teams without this thing. Hazard support is great.
An expert at killing noobs. DD+Photon Geyser+Smart Strike beats a LOT of cheese and breaks unaware\wonder guard mons in half. Covert Cloak is an amazing new item that lets it DD up on Ho-Oh as they get salty in the chat for my being lucky in not getting burnt by sacred fire lmao. This set is pretty bad against well built high ladder teams though.

This guy is kinda OKish I guess? For me it plays like a worse Mega Reyquaza, being a Life Orb user that dies while smashing a hole in the opposing team. It seems like terastalizing into fire is almost mandatory with its bad defensive typing which makes it an expensive pick on a team.

This guy is a premier nuclear option, pretty much OHKOing everything and being a headache to switch into. Unfortunately I hate using this mon, because its dual stabs both have many immunities, even worse they could tera into those immunities and KO you instead out of nowhere. Its coin flip nature in picking the right STAB or whiffing on immunities has me skeptical it will be considered a top mon. I much prefer spammable STABs like Dragon Ascent.

+
Honestly this pairing is complete garbage and a mega noob trap. Probably the single most common pairing on the ladder and it fails a dozen different ways. Oh well, atleast its an easy win whenever you loadup against this pairing on low ladder.

I thought this guy could do something with its elite typing and speed\offenses, but I feel like AG is too fast and also too bulky for this guy. Either they outspeed you, or shadow sneak you, or simply sponge even a +1 attack and KO it.

One of my favourite mons ever, aesthetically and gameplay wise. Unfortunately this guy seems kinda hosed in the current metagame. I dont see it used often and it doesnt seem to offer much, besides only gaining physical attack moves in gen9 and not much. WHY does this STILL not have levitate?! ARGH

Other mons are just too many to list, such as the Primals, which are good all-rounders. Zygarde and Marshadow are great picks as usual.

Overall, this metagame is a blast;if only we had a National Dex Ubers tier with sleep and evasion clauses.
Few of those statements r incorrect. My advice (and i politely mean it) would be to play a bit more to realise where u are wrong in ur reasoning. Iron defense :garganacl: can deal with a lot of mrays set (excluding mixed) basically a bulkier arc rock but can increase longetivity with lefties and finds a very useful damaging move in salt cure. It’s fair to say mrays power in this tier diminished if u were to compare it to the prior ndag. Especially with the fast and strong kora and mira. It kinda pulls way less of its weight.
Koraidon is “OKish”? It’s above that by a high margin. It’s simply and purely excellent in the meta atm. With Good stab moves, amazing coverage and typing that lets it come into rocks easily, l’oraison is prolly one of the most DANGEROUS mons atm. Let it be band (which ohkoes the offensive meta and 2hkoes every of its checks), taunt + 3 attack or the formidable scarf set koraidon remains a highly versatile killer machine.
Miraidon can be use in different ways, it’s not that hard. It’s already considered a “top mon”
Shed tail is indeed rubbish but shedninja itself? No it’s not. Shedninja too is p good atm. Let it be shed stalls or when it’s simply placed on a balance or ho to fit the puzzle, shed remains a threat one has to really account for as the correct Tera typing can simply make u win the late game.
 

The one and only buck

Banned deucer.
Liepard's Assist Revival Blessing has taken the meta by storm.
No it’s hasnt. That thingy is bad, or rather inconsistent. U can’t achieve something with it. Loses to e killer. Can lead to 1000 turns vs stall since u can’t make progress. Infact most of ur battles would tend to last hundreds of turns unless the opponent just gets frustrated and rage quits. Relying on that to win a game is being a casual player at best.
 
No it’s hasnt. That thingy is bad, or rather inconsistent. U can’t achieve something with it. Loses to e killer. Can lead to 1000 turns vs stall since u can’t make progress. Infact most of ur battles would tend to last hundreds of turns unless the opponent just gets frustrated and rage quits. Relying on that to win a game is being a casual player at best.
You can take care of Ekiller easily, nobody puts 5 Liepard and 1 Pawmot/Rabsca on team. You can't do anything against the stall except ragequit. It's a hilarious uncompetitive mechanic and gameplay
 
No a well played ekiller really just breaks it. And there’s sincerely kinda nothing in “hilarious” in those kind of strats. Just a waste of time overall...
Any playstyle can be broken with a well played turn. That doesn't mean anything. Revival Blessing teams can be easily tweaked to handle Ekiller. Mega Gengar can switch into a predicted Extremespeed and Encore Arceus.
 

The one and only buck

Banned deucer.
Any playstyle can be broken with a well played turn. That doesn't mean anything. Revival Blessing teams can be easily tweaked to handle Ekiller. Mega Gengar can switch into a predicted Extremespeed and Encore Arceus.
ok what if it goes fera ghost then simply switches out since it would shave ghost type? And it’s isnt even about Tera. Assist spam is simply and purely bad. Now if u do say the contrary then I’d really like to see evidence of such pls.
 
ok what if it goes fera ghost then simply switches out since it would shave ghost type? And it’s isnt even about Tera. Assist spam is simply and purely bad. Now if u do say the contrary then I’d really like to see evidence of such pls.
If Arceus is forced to tera, that's already proven to be more troublesome that you initally claimed. Arceus is still slower than M-Gengar and can be killed by Shadow Ball if it decides to go Ghost Tera (aside from wasting tera). You provided no reliable counter and claimed its bad without any valid counterpoint. You claimed its bad, you're are one to prove it.
 
You can take care of Ekiller easily, nobody puts 5 Liepard and 1 Pawmot/Rabsca on team. You can't do anything against the stall except ragequit. It's a hilarious uncompetitive mechanic and gameplay
I have successfully beaten stall with an assist team, though I consider this to be an EXTREMELY lucky battle, not only did they have zero hazard removal but I also happened to pull metronome court change to get up rocks, allowing me to make progress:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexag-1733000724-lf0eiyeagyf271bdvpsam1xfcd9ngwhpw

Any playstyle can be broken with a well played turn. That doesn't mean anything. Revival Blessing teams can be easily tweaked to handle Ekiller. Mega Gengar can switch into a predicted Extremespeed and Encore Arceus.
Encore can be called by assist and thus can't be used on an assist team, if you did use it then you could no longer guarantee a revive, which is the whole point of using liepard + pawmot in the first place

No a well played ekiller really just breaks it. And there’s sincerely kinda nothing in “hilarious” in those kind of strats. Just a waste of time overall...
Depends on the set and the team, I'll exemplify this with my current assist team: https://pokepast.es/09956afdb6d57e0b
(Shedinja's tera type can be Fairy, Ground or Steel, they each have different strengths and weaknesses)

Here's the overall EKiller plan for this team:

Any EKiller that doesn't have Toxic or Sandstorm can be walled with Shedinja-Fairy unless the opposing team has Tyranitar and Shedinja-Ground will wall it even if Ttar is present, EKiller without Shadow Claw or Toxic (such as SD/Recover/EQ/ESpeed) can also be walled by Shedinja's Bug/Ghost form even with Tyranitar on the opponent's team, as every time Ttar comes in and Shedinja dies, Liepard comes in and revives it

Against EKiller with Toxic, Teraghost Ditto will always get at least one chance to attack it, what Ditto does depends on the circumstances, but first, here's what the calcs look like from both sides:

+2 252+ Atk Arceus (Ditto) Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Arceus: 231-273 (52 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Arceus (Ditto): 231-273 (77 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Teraghost calcs:

+2 252+ Atk Arceus (Ditto) Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Arceus: 404-476 (90.9 - 107.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Arceus (Ditto): 404-476 (134.6 - 158.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The ideal scenario is the one in bold, which will always put the opposing Arceus into range of Liepard's Rocky Helmet or it will knock itself out from Life Orb recoil into Giratina

If Arceus does not terastallize (send in Ditto, then sack Pawmot to see if they do, they should always go for it facing a Ditto, if they didn't go for it the first time then they shouldn't go for it the second time either), then you can send in Ditto and freely terastallize to avoid the incoming Extreme Speed and 2HKO the opposing Arceus with your own Extreme Speed or at least do big damage with the first one and then force it out

If Arceus boosts to +4 and does not terastallize, you don't necessarily need to terastallize either as one Extreme Speed will bring them in range of Rocky Helmet again

If it's EKiller with ESpeed/SD or DD/EQ/Toxic then Giratina's Dragon Tail can phaze it every time it comes in until it's within range of Ditto's +2 Extreme Speed into Liepard's Rocky Helmet

If EKiller without Shadow Claw neglects to boost and instead simply spams Toxic, Ditto will come in and Toxic it, then sack itself off and guarantee one of two scenarios:

A - An opponent other than Arceus is out -> If this happens, spam revives with Liepard to pp stall until they either switch out or get a Bright Powder miss until everything is revived, then sack Pawmot or (if applicable) bring in Shedinja/Giratina to wall them

B - Arceus is out and switched into Toxic, thus getting badly poisoned, if this happens then it's ultimately a game of rock paper scissors, you'll have to spam Protect and try to dance around between Liepard and your Ghost types until they're knocked out, if Giratina is alive in this situation then you'll always bring that in and use Protect, ALWAYS make sure to have at least one Liepard alive at all times

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Mega-Banette can also force 3 attacks EKiller to switch out by alternating between prankster Destiny Bond and slow Thief until it either hits into the DBond or gets knocked out by Thief, the issue here is that Mega-Banette won't be reliable on Assist teams long-term due to the fact that being revived in your mega form is a showdown-exclusive feature and therefore is likely to be removed at some point down the line

Also, non-LO Arceus HAS to boost or it can fail to KO the cat pokemon from 50%, which is what they'll bet at after having been revived:

252+ Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Liepard: 147-174 (44.2 - 52.4%) -- 16.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Meowstic: 117-138 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glimmora is also an option on these teams but it's even more gimmicky imo since it can't do anything at all besides sacrifice itself to setup Toxic Spikes, which is amazing in some matchups but completely useless in others

Most gimmick teams stop being seen at around 1400-1450, yet myself and others have been able to reach 1600+ with Assist Revival Blessing thus far as seen in the following replays:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexag-1737441947-vacgu7gv5p73gocod1ur8l9o1um8xripw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexag-1738044587

Note that winning battles tend to take 100+ turns and aren't down to KOing enemy pokemon, they're usually down to the opponent forfeiting, though Ditto's infinte PP almost always secures a win against non-stall teams that can't break through you and losing battles are often already decided on team preview due to a horrendous matchup such as FIVE Arceus-Normal, all of them with Extreme Speed and Shadow Claw (yes I actually ran into that), making it quite demoralizing to try and ladder up with revive spam Liepard
 
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Haven't seen anybody mention it yet, and I haven't seen anybody else use this strat... Dragonium-Z Cyclizar; Devastating Drake just OHKO's the big dragons, and after Rapid Spin you outspeed Miraidon if it switches in. I've been loving it as my z-move on my team and I get a decent amount of surprise kills on M-Ray
 

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Banned deucer.
Haven't seen anybody mention it yet, and I haven't seen anybody else use this strat... Dragonium-Z Cyclizar; Devastating Drake just OHKO's the big dragons, and after Rapid Spin you outspeed Miraidon if it switches in. I've been loving it as my z-move on my team and I get a decent amount of surprise kills on M-Ray
Tbf there’s kinda no reason to put in a slot, it’s more of a waste. Cyclizar can’t do something productive in the meta atm, nor is it some big offensive menace. Miraidon or koraidon with dragon stabs would do more consistent damage through out the battle/battles. Killing an offensive mon which doesn’t possess an incredible bulk in the first place with a stab super effective z move doesn’t give it any value.
 
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