Morelull, Shiinotic Discussion

[Nexus]

Morelull
Grass/Fairy
Abilities: Illuminate / Effect Spore / Rain Dish
HP: 40
Atk: 35
Def: 55
SpAtk: 65
SpDef: 75
Spe: 15

Learn Set

Level Up

L1 - Absorb
L4 - Astonish
L8 - Flash
L11 - Moonlight
L15 - Mega Drain
L18 - Sleep Powder
L22 - Ingrain
L25 - Confuse Ray
L29 - Giga Drain
L32 - Strength Sap
L36 - Spore
L39 - Moonblast
L43 - Dream Eater
L46 - Spotlight

TMs

TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM22 - Solar Beam
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM48 - Round
TM53 - Energy Ball
TM73 - Thunder Wave
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM86 - Grass Knot
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM90 - Substitute
TM96 - Nature Power
TM99 - Dazzling Gleam
TM100 - Confide

Egg moves

Egg - Amnesia
Egg - Poison Powder
Egg - Stun Spore
Egg - Growth
Egg - Leech Seed

Shiinotic
Grass/Fairy
Abilities: Illuminate / Effect Spore / Rain Dish
HP: 60
Atk: 45
Def: 80
SpAtk: 90
SpDef: 100
Spe: 30

Learn Set

Level Up

L1 - Absorb
L1 - Astonish
L1- Ingrain
L1 - Flash
L4 - Astonish
L8 - Flash
L11 - Moonlight
L15 - Mega Drain
L18 - Sleep Powder
L22 - Ingrain
L26 - Confuse Ray
L31 - Giga Drain
L35 - Strength Sap
L40 - Spore
L44 - Moonblast
L49 - Dream Eater
L53 - Spotlight
TMs

TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM22 - Solar Beam
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM48 - Round
TM53 - Energy Ball
TM57 - Charge Beam
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM73 - Thunder Wave
TM85 - Dream Eater
TM86 - Grass Knot
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM90 - Substitute
TM96 - Nature Power
TM99 - Dazzling Gleam
TM100 - Confide
Egg moves

Egg - Amnesia
Egg - Poison Powder
Egg - Stun Spore
Egg - Growth
Egg - Leech Seed

New Move

Strength Sap: The user restores its HP by the same amount as the target's Attack stat. It also lowers the target's Attack stat. -- [Grass] --, Status.

 

[TURBODERP]

Strength Sap is actually crazy. Grass/Fairy has some valuable resistances, and this thing is fairly bulky.

Oh, and it has Spore+Dream Eater. Lel.

 

[Project_Mars]

So does Spotlight allow you to force an opponent to attack its partner? I mean, granted, you can use Bunker with Toxopex and force Opponents to attack into that...

 

[Theorymon]

At first I was thinking "oh a worse Amoonguss" till I heard the discussion on Spotlight on the Smogon Discord. AFAIK, Spotlight is sorta like Follow Me, except you target an opponent and make all attacks go at it! That sounds fucking brutal if really works like that, and certainly gives it a niche over Amoonguss!

Man is it just me or are most of the new Pokemon very doubles focused? A lot of them seem like Trick Room Pokemon...

 

[Kietharr]

Spotlight's not a signature move. Clefable and Starmie get it as well.

 

[Bombkirby]

Spotlight's not a signature move. Clefable and Starmie get it as well.

His point is that is brings something that another spore user doesn't

 

[Absolclaw]

Strength Sap ... sounds absolutely evil.

 

[Cheapoman]

Strength Sap ... sounds absolutely evil.

I wonder if same a poke with 120 base Atk maxxed (like 360ish atk?) hits it and puts it into the red, with base 60 HP, it sounds like it gets back 360 hp from its opponent's attack stat? Is that how it works, cuz if so that would make for a pretty appealing move.

And this pokmon's choices for moves is also quite amazing to boot.

 

[nameless90]

This thing has the bulk Whimsicott should wish for.
It has a nice defensive typing (Poison weakness is very exploitable) and a good movepool.
Too bad that all 3 abilities are random or underwhelming; with Regenerator it should be immediately really good.
Rain Dish seems more situational than Effect Spore. Illuminate is just filler.
So much near to OU, but still so far from it due to three bad abilities.

 

[SkyknightMu]

At first I was thinking "oh a worse Amoonguss" till I heard the discussion on Spotlight on the Smogon Discord. AFAIK, Spotlight is sorta like Follow Me, except you target an opponent and make all attacks go at it! That sounds fucking brutal if really works like that, and certainly gives it a niche over Amoonguss!

Man is it just me or are most of the new Pokemon very doubles focused? A lot of them seem like Trick Room Pokemon...

Well, GameFreak has stated, I believe, that they focus their efforts (balances included) on doubles. I suppose it's precisely because it's less stall-friendly than singles (and thus don't have the danger of dragging on and on when two stall teams face each other).

 

[chuckeroo777]

Yet another reason to run 0 attack IVs
Seems quite interesting, though Amoongus still has Regenerater over it.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Pretty good. Rain Dish is odd, but otherwise its reasonable and its capabilities are solid. Going to nickname this thing Toad because just look at it.

 

[Maltrab]

Yet another reason to run 0 attack IVs
Seems quite interesting, though Amoongus still has Regenerater over it.

And has more bulk but it's actually an interesting discussion now. Spotlight is going to be a fantastic move.

 

[chuckeroo777]

And has more bulk but it's actually an interesting discussion now. Spotlight is going to be a fantastic move.

If I were to guess, Regenerater will cause Amoongus to be better in singles, but Shiinotic will really shine in doubles.

 

[Maltrab]

If I were to guess, Regenerater will cause Amoongus to be better in singles, but Shiinotic will really shine in doubles.

I was talking more a doubles standpoint but yeah, Amoongus will definitely be better in singles but both have great uses in doubles. Amoongus with Regenator, Grass/Poison (good typing now), better bulk, but Shiinotic gets Spotlight.

 

[freekhoorn]

That special attack stat is not really low. Spore and dreameater sounds pretty good too. Sturdy would have been cool cause it could recover itself over and over. Maybe something for hackmons?

 

[jackgraves]

At first I was thinking "oh a worse Amoonguss" till I heard the discussion on Spotlight on the Smogon Discord. AFAIK, Spotlight is sorta like Follow Me, except you target an opponent and make all attacks go at it! That sounds fucking brutal if really works like that, and certainly gives it a niche over Amoonguss!

Man is it just me or are most of the new Pokemon very doubles focused? A lot of them seem like Trick Room Pokemon...

It absolutely works that way, complete with +3 priority. It also allows you to target your Ally so that attacks can be redirected to them if you want, which will pair well with Spiky Shield, Baneful Bunker, and Counter/Mirror coat. Shell Trap would also pair well if it didn't also hit all adjacent Mons. Did you know that Shell Trap has 150 BP? Crazy stuff this Gen is bringing.

 

[Tomrash]

It absolutely works that way, complete with +3 priority. It also allows you to target your Ally so that attacks can be redirected to them if you want, which will pair well with Spiky Shield, Baneful Bunker, and Counter/Mirror coat. Shell Trap would also pair well if it didn't also hit all adjacent Mons. Did you know that Shell Trap has 150 BP? Crazy stuff this Gen is bringing.

This sounds OP. So you basically need 2 Pokemon that can stop it (kill/taunt) out at once to stop it before your mons kill each other? O.o

 

[jackgraves]

This sounds OP. So you basically need 2 Pokemon that can stop it (kill/taunt) out at once to stop it before your mons kill each other? O.o

That, or if you can predict its target, you can Protect with it as you attack Shiinotic with the other. There's also the matter of Magic Bounce and Magic Coat, spread moves, Crafty Shield (this really helps to give Klefki a niche), and Fake Out, all of which can help to dismantle that strategy.

 

[Sdaj]

That, or if you can predict its target, you can Protect with it as you attack Shiinotic with the other. There's also the matter of Magic Bounce and Magic Coat, spread moves, Crafty Shield (this really helps to give Klefki a niche), and Fake Out, all of which can help to dismantle that strategy.

On the description of psyquic terrain it says that it prevents priority moves, which makes me believe it will not only cancel attacks but every priority move.
That may turn out to be another to counter spot light, but also means rip protect.

 

[Siggu]

Well, Spotlight's high priority is pretty cool, as that means you don't need to Sketch it with Smeargle to be a worthwhile move, especially since Shiinotic has actual bulk, even if not much. I'm curious if it forces allies to target the spotlit Pokemon, but I guess that would be too much :P

It will be quite difficult, however, to justify Shiinotic's overall use in singles... just like Amoonguss was before getting Regenerator.

 

[jackgraves]

On the description of psyquic terrain it says that it prevents priority moves, which makes me believe it will not only cancel attacks but every priority move.
That may turn out to be another to counter spot light, but also means rip protect.

Spotlight, sure, but Protect? I don't know if it will effect moves in which the user targets itself. Just look at the wording from the official site:

"Psychic Terrain is a move that no Pokémon was previously able to learn, and using it will boost the power of any Psychic-type moves used by Pokémon on the ground and prevent them from being hit by priority moves."

I get the feeling that this means Protect, Detect, and all their variants, as well as follow me, won't be affected.

 

[Snou]

That recovery move is literally amazing. I will definetely try it in one of my first teams, especially in a stallish one O_O
Spore + Effect Spore is insane on a mon with all those resistences. The only sad thing is that it's not tanking u-turns :[

 

[GRs Cousin]

Shiinotic seems like it would make a good physical tank. Azumarill, Hippowdon, Keldeo, and Landorus-T are all checked on virtue of what their regular sets run in coverage and none of them carry anything to hit Shiinotic hard. Aside from Keldeo, all of them use physical attack and would hate Strength Sap and potential Effect Spore effects. Dragonite and Tyranitar are softer checks in that they're occasionally found with Fire-type moves, though they're both weak to Moonblast and Shiinotic's bulk might be enough to tank a Fire Blast from them.

Shiinotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Spore
- Strength Sap
- Giga Drain / Leech Seed
- Moonblast

Spore because Spore. Strength Sap becomes a good source of healing against physical attackers and acts as a free Intimidate, softening threats your teammates might not otherwise be able to switch into. Giga Drain is otherwise your main source of healing against specially attacking opponents. Leech Seed can alternatively force a switch and provide either a free Spore or Strength Sap, or if they remain in, you can wall them outright. Moonblast is the other STAB that works as the safest attacking option and has a chance at lowering Special Attack to round out Shiinotic's bulk.

Whatever tier Shiinotic places in, no doubt it'll be a good check to many bulky Waters and choiced Fighting/Dragon/Dark-types.

 

[matthewc20090]

ehhh it's just a cheap amoongus. Being immune to scald is nice but without regenerator it's just not as good.

streangth sap is honestly outclassed by moonlight cause you could just switch in a special attacker and not be affected.

spotlight is cool in doubles / ffas