Announcement Mew is now banned from National Dex UU

Status
Not open for further replies.
:ss/mew:
:mew:

The council held a vote, and as a result, Mew has been quickbanned from National Dex UU!

While the initial plan was to suspect Mew after Slowking-Galar’s ban, it has become increasingly clear, both during Slowking-Galar’s suspect and after, that Mew is too much to keep around, and a ban via suspect would be a foregone conclusion, especially given the amount of calls for its ban from the community we have received. While Slowking-Galar leaving has led to a rise in SpDef Slowking, it was agreed that this is nowhere near consequential enough to keep Mew from being too much, especially as PDef is still generally preferred (though not as much) to handle Melmetal and Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, among others. We had hoped that Slowking-Galar leaving would bring about the rise of a splashable replacement SpDef wall that could stomach Mew, but this didn’t really happen aside from SpDef Slowking, who, again, wasn’t enough to make Mew tame.

The reason for this ban is two sets in particular, one far more egregious than the other. The set of main concern, Double Dance, is near unstoppable with a boost, and with screens up (not unlikely as Double Dance Mew is most common on screens teams) these are practically assured. Psychic and Fire Blast/Flamethrower hit the entirety of the meta bar Slowking, who Mew can just Nasty Plot a second time against and obliterate with Genesis Supernova if it is the normal PhysDef set and still do a significant chunk to SpDef sets, as well as Crawdaunt and Mega Sharpedo, neither of which have the bulk or recovery to come in on it anyways, and are niche to begin with.

Additionally, after a +2 speed boost, the only thing that can revenge kill it is the extremely niche scarf Ditto - who still loses if screens are up - or priority, the only of which that can kill from reasonably full (from any viable Pokemon, at least) is Bisharp’s Sucker Punch. Aegislash’s Shadow Sneak only does about half from the SD set, a rarity nowadays, and Choice Band is simply not a great set (and still needs Mew lower than 76% to kill with a high roll). As you can see, this isn’t exactly a lot of choices. And, as if Genesis Supernova wasn’t devastating enough already, it also leaves behind Psychic Terrain, so those priority options might not even be options in the first place. It also gives a meaty 30% boost to Mew’s Psychic, allowing it to OHKO a huge portion of even fairly bulky Psychic neutrals at +2. Even max HP Mega Altaria fails to survive after rocks. This leaves the burden of stomaching Mew’s attacks to psychic resists, which either get smoked by Fire Blast or can’t kill it.

Other defensive counterplay is also basically nonexistent. As mentioned, almost all of our common psychic resists are either OHKOd (or very near) by boosted Fire Blast or incapable of killing Mew, often both. Of the exceptions, while otherwise solid, RestTalk Galarian Moltres can struggle if screens are up, as uninvested Fiery Wrath only does a 3rd on a max roll, and if Mew NPs a second time (assuming it NPs as Galarian Moltres switches in) on the first Fiery Wrath and hit two Fire Blasts, it can 2HKO Moltres-Galar before it can retaliate. Mandibuzz can Whirlwind at least but is an otherwise inferior option to Moltres-Galar on most teams due to its passivity, and if it doesn’t pack Whirlwind it might as well be setup fodder for Mew due to Knock Off's pitiful damage vs Mew, especially behind screens. Umbreon is a better check than Mandibuzz but somehow even more passive (though it has the space to fit Foul Play which does more), only fitting on stall teams. Granted, if you pack one of these bulky darks and either Shadow Sneak Aegislash or Bisharp, you might be fine, but that is a lot of slots dedicated just to not losing to a single mon, not to mention that’s a lot of niche sets (in the case of Aegislash) or mons to expect teams to have. This significantly limits creativity and the amount you can actually cover, hence why a lot of teams just forget it and try to pressure it into not setting up.

Nasty Plot on its own is of course a thing too, but comparatively more tame, albeit still extremely difficult to handle defensively, and somewhat offensively, arguably to a broken extent in its own right. It can also run Soft-Boiled, allowing it to get past some defensive checks (notably turning TWaveless Slowking into setup fodder), or potentially run coverage for the checks it cannot immediately break past otherwise (Thunderbolt/Thunder in particular beats every defensive check bar Umbreon), though this can leave it prone to being worn down over time. However, you don’t need ultra specific priority to deal with Nasty Plot and a faster Pokemon will often suffice if you can pivot on Mew's attacks enough with your other Pokemon and get it in. That being said, it can sometimes be problematic to revenge kill due to its high natural bulk and the relative lack of speed control that can hit it super effectively that isn't Zeraora's Knock Off (which of course does basically nothing, to the extent Plasma Fist does more but still can't 2HKO reliably), and +2 Genesis Supernova will still do a massive chunk to almost anything that isn't a Dark type, often killing at least one Pokemon.

The other major set that is problematic is the Spikes support set. While nowhere near as insane as Double Dance, this Mew set is basically impossible to Defog against and keep from Spiking up, especially if Mew has Taunt. This enables it to keep Spikes up against basically all of our Defoggers, with the exception of the very niche Mandibuzz, while crippling switchins with Knock Off or status, and makes reliable hazard control options extremely hard to come by. It also has the bulk to be useful outside of this, being able to check (but not always switch into) Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, Melmetal (if Wisp), Mega Manectric, and others, and the Spike stacking it enables lets certain Pokemon have more free reign than we’d like.

Overall, Double Dance is extremely difficult to stop, and the methods of stopping it boil down to having to play extremely aggressively or bending over backwards to accommodate two mons to deal with it. This is simply not healthy at all, and glaringly extremely broken. Nasty Plot on its own is also arguably too much as well, but not to the same extent. Finally, Spikes gives too much advantage in the hazard game, though this is probably its least broken set of the problematic sets.

Banning screens/screens setters or Light Clay is obviously not the right call as Mew is the only problematic abuser, and while it would lose the ability to beat some of its checks, it would still be problematic even without screens, as evidenced by Nasty Plot and Spikes. For this reason, we have decided to ban Mew rather than any of the screens related options. The Spikes set being problematic is also the primary reason we chose to ban Mew outright, instead of just Mewnium Z like Gen 7 UU did.

+4 252+ SpA Mew Genesis Supernova vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowking: 381-449 (96.7 - 113.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+4 252 SpA Mew Genesis Supernova vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowking: 348-409 (88.3 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+4 252+ SpA Mew Genesis Supernova vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 279-328 (70.8 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Attacking Mew is a Ditto
+2 252+ SpA Mew Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mew through Light Screen: 109-128 (31.9 - 37.5%) -- 91.9% chance to 3HKO
+4 252+ SpA Mew Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mew through Light Screen: 163-192 (47.8 - 56.3%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO

Defending Mew is a Ditto
+2 252+ SpA Mew Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mew: 218-257 (72.6 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 368-434 (107.9 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 152-182 (44.5 - 53.3%) -- 30.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 228-270 (66.8 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ SpA Mew Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Altaria-Mega in Psychic Terrain: 336-396 (94.9 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

0 SpA Moltres-Galar Fiery Wrath vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mew through Light Screen: 97-115 (28.4 - 33.7%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO
+4 252+ SpA Mew Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Moltres-Galar: 210-248 (54.6 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Mandibuzz Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 102-120 (29.9 - 35.1%) -- 10.3% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Mandibuzz Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mew through Reflect: 51-60 (14.9 - 17.5%) -- possible 6HKO

252 Atk Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mew: 147-174 (43.1 - 51%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Zeraora Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mew: 128-152 (37.5 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

We also voted on Alakazam, but determined that there was no need for action at present. Additionally, as the tier appears to finally be stable enough, we decided to vote on things to Retest back down. The first of these will be Azumarill, followed by Drought and finally Thundurus-Therian, which will receive their reasonings in their respective retest posts. Mega Aerodactyl was voted on but rejected for a retest, and as such will not receive one any time in the near future, assuming BDSP doesn’t shake things up massively. These retests will be after NDPL.


Tagging Kris to implement the Mew ban when they can. Thank you!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top