NFE Marshtomp [Done]

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S1nn0hC0nfirm3d

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[SET]
name: Mixed Wall
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Eviolite
ability: Damp
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 128 Def / 136 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Marshtomp's great defensive typing makes it a great wall and counter to Electabuzz. Gabite does compete in these roles, and it may appear to outclass Marshtomp with its better Speed and even better defensive typing. However, Marshtomp beating Ice Punch Electabuzz and checking Fire-types better makes it plenty worthwhile. With RestTalk, it can afford to take repeated hits and chip damage. It only needs Earthquake as an attack because, while it cannot harm most Flying- and Grass-types, using Stealth Rock when they switch in suffices as punishment. In the event the team can afford another Stealth Rock user, then Marshtomp could opt for Scald or Yawn instead to pressure foes with status, though neither are as effective as Stealth Rock. A mixed defensive EV spread works best, as Marshtomp does not need much special bulk to counter Electabuzz, whereas extra physical bulk helps with Raboot.

Defoggers and Rapid Spin users like Vullaby and Wartortle often switch into Marshtomp when it uses Stealth Rock. Switching to an offensive teammate like Electabuzz, Choice Band Raboot, and Fraxure as they clear Stealth Rock is a great way to bring them in safely and preserve momentum; if they don't go for removal, then Marshtomp at least secured Stealth Rock to punish them later on. As for Hattrem and its Magic Bounce, use Dark-types like Galarian Linoone, Vullaby, and Zweilous to beat it, as well as offensive partners like Lampent and Thwackey that can switch into Giga Drain with no problem. Defensive partners that resist Grass are also a must; physical walls like Roselia, Tangela, Ferroseed, and Koffing complement Marshtomp in this vein by checking Thwackey.

CREDITS]
- Written by: [[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d, 231074]]
- Quality checked by: [[Jett, 226429], [Mirbro, 451786]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Adeleine, 517429]]
 
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Jett

gm gobodachis
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[SET]
name: Mixed Wall
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Eviolite
ability: Damp
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 128 Def / 136 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Marshtomp's Water / Ground typing makes it excel as a wall, and Marshtomp is the most reliable counter to top threats like Electabuzz and Magmar. With RestTalk, it can afford to take repeated hits and chip damage. It only needs Earthquake as an attack, as while it cannot harm most Flying- and Grass-types, using Stealth Rock when they switch in suffices as punishment. In the event the team can afford another Stealth Rock user, then Marshtomp could opt for Scald or Yawn instead, though neither are as effective as Stealth Rock. A mixed defensive EV investment works best so Marshtomp is harder to takeout by physical Fire-types such as Raboot and Belly Drum Magmar.

(At the start of this paragraph I'd probably mention that despite Marshtomp being an excellent counter to Ebuzz and Magmar, it still has to be very wary of repeatedly switching in as a usage tip of sorts, when below 58% = 2 stoss' which is honestly surprisingly high given that rocks + a bit more chip puts it into range of this number) Defoggers like Golbat and Vullaby often switch into Marshtomp when it uses Stealth Rock. Switching to an offensive teammate like Electabuzz, Choice Band Raboot, and Fraxure on the expected Defog is a great way to bring them in safely and preserve momentum; if the Flying-types do not Defog, then Marshtomp at least secured Stealth Rock to punish them later on. As for Hattrem, Marshtomp should have Dark-types like Galarian Linoone and Zweilous as well as offensive partners like Lampent and Magmar that can switch into Giga Drain with no problem. Defensive partners that resist Grass are also a must, so physical walls like Golbat, Tangela, and Koffing compliment Marshtomp in this vein by countering Thwackey. Vullaby and Roselia are specially defensive partners that work as Tangela switch-ins, and Vullaby also helps check Energy Ball Lampent. Physical walls like Galarian Corsola and Clefairy appreciate Marshtomp for its Fire resistance, while they in return deal with Piloswine, Raboot, and Fighting-types.


[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Instead of RestTalk, Marshtomp could explore other utility moves like Whirlpool and Seismic Toss, though these sets require a fair degree of surprise to work at the expense of consistent recovery. Extra EV investment could work to hit specific benchmarks, like 236 Special Defense EVs to avoid the 3HKO from Focus Blast Choice Specs Electabuzz, but the lack of sufficient Defensive EVs then in turn allows Heavy-Duty Boots Raboot to have a chance to 2HKO with High Jump Kick. Torrent works when running Scald, and Toxic is another way to punish switch-ins instead of Stealth Rock as an unreliable catch-all.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Grass-types and Grass-type Coverage**: It usually only takes a single Grass-type attack from Thwackey, stallbreaker Tangela, and Choice Specs Lampent to KO Marshtomp. This limits its walling capabilities and it is frequentlyforced out by these attackers, with the former two switching in and taking negligible damage from Earthquake. Ferroseed(does it now, i dont recall really seeing any bullet seed) and Roselia also run Grass-type STAB attacks and capitalize on Marshtomp by setting Spikes when it is forced out.

**Hattrem**: Hattrem takes little from Earthquake and reflects Stealth Rock, so Marshtomp has trouble progress versus it. Worse yet, Hattrem often caries Giga Drain and easily 3HKOes Marshtomp.

**Flying-types**: While they don't appreciate Stealth Rock, Marshtomp simply cannot damage Golbat and Vullaby unless they Roost. Rufflet also switches in freely and uses Marshtomp as setup fodder.

**Item Removal**: Without its Eviolite, Marshtomp is exceedingly more vulnerable, and Thief users like Golbat, Electabuzz, and Magmar lure in Marshtomp to weaken it.

**Physical Attackers**: Wallbreakers like Choice Band Raboot and Piloswine make quick work of Marshtomp. Knock Off users like Gurdurr and Galarian Linoone also make Marshtomp much easier to break through.

CREDITS]
- Written by: [[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d, 231074]]
- Quality checked by: [[Jett, 226429], [username2, userid2]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]l
 
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[SET]
name: Mixed Wall
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Eviolite
ability: Damp
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 128 Def / 136 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Marshtomp's Water / Ground typing makes it excel as a wall, and Marshtomp is the most reliable counter to Electabuzz. With RestTalk, it can afford to take repeated hits and chip damage. It only needs Earthquake as an attack, as while it cannot harm most Flying- and Grass-types, using Stealth Rock when they switch in suffices as punishment. In the event the team can afford another Stealth Rock user, then Marshtomp could opt for Scald or Yawn instead, though neither are as effective as Stealth Rock. A mixed defensive EV investment works best so Marshtomp won't need much special bulk to counter Electabuzz. I also think now the mixed spread is not as good as before because of Magmar departure and Tomp not being a good check at long-term to Raboot (U-turn is annoying and HJK hits like a truck). So both mixed and 236 SpDef are not bad right now and they make sense. Normally people is opting for other checks to Raboot than role compression Tomp.

Defoggers and Rapid Spin users like Vullaby and Wartortle often switch into Marshtomp when it uses Stealth Rock. Switching to an offensive teammate like Electabuzz, Choice Band Raboot, and Fraxure on the expected Defog or Rapid Spin is a great way to bring them in safely and preserve momentum; if they don't go for removal, then Marshtomp at least secured Stealth Rock to punish them later on. As for Hattrem, use Dark-types like Galarian Linoone, (AC) Vullaby, (AC) and Zweilous as well as offensive partners like Lampent and Gastly I think Gastly is more niche and Thwackey kind of works (also Psychic just kills it in a bad predict) that can switch into Giga Drain with no problem. Defensive partners that resist Grass are also a must, so physical walls like Roselia, Tangela, (AC) Ferroseed, (AC) and Koffing compliment Marshtomp in this vein by checking Thwackey.

CREDITS]
- Written by: [[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d, 231074]]
- Quality checked by: [[Jett, 226429], [Mirbro, 451786]]

Mirbro_Small.gif
 

Adeleine

after committing a dangerous crime
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is being the single most reliable buzz check the only significant advantage marsh has over gabite? overview is framed like "oh it fits into this niche well", but if gabite does the same niche overall, id frame things vaguely somewhat like "marsh is generally outclassed as a wall by gabite, but it checks buzz the best so if your team really struggles with that then maybe"
 
is being the single most reliable buzz check the only significant advantage marsh has over gabite? overview is framed like "oh it fits into this niche well", but if gabite does the same niche overall, id frame things vaguely somewhat like "marsh is generally outclassed as a wall by gabite, but it checks buzz the best so if your team really struggles with that then maybe"
Hey Adeleine! Thanks for reading and giving your input. In my opinion, it is true that the main reason is that one you pointed out. However, Marshtomp and Gabite are different according to other roles they can do (Gabite has more offensive presence, and more speedy). With this what I meant is that Gabite is a reliable check to Electabuzz (non-Ice Punch ones) that can threaten some walls bc of the speed and Toxic. Marshtomp is a better check to Electabuzz (which sometimes is highly appreciated) and also has access to Yawn (which is not stated here bc it is even a more niche but something useful). Finaly, even though Gabite is an OK Fire-type check, Marhstomp does the job even better (although watch out for Energy Balls from Lampent).

Tldr; overall you are right, but still they have slight differences worth to note. And we are not considering Palpitoad here which, imo, is also good and has another niche that is the fact that is a soft Wartortle check (which Marsh and Gab are not).

Hope this helps!
 

Adeleine

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[SET]
name: Mixed Wall
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Eviolite
ability: Damp
nature: Careful
evs: 248 HP / 128 Def / 136 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Marshtomp's Water / Ground typing makes it excel as a wall, and Marshtomp is the most reliable counter to Electabuzz. However, Gabite competes with this role as well, and is noticeably better thanks to the better speed and defensive typing. Marshtomp's great defensive typing makes it a great wall and counter to Electabuzz. Gabite does compete in these roles, and it may appear to outclass Marshtomp with its better Speed and even better defensive typing. However, Marshtomp beating Ice Punch Electabuzz and checking Fire-types better makes it plenty worthwhile. (feel free to change anything if desired) With RestTalk, it can afford to take repeated hits and chip damage. It only needs Earthquake as an attack, as attack because, while it cannot harm most Flying- and Grass-types, using Stealth Rock when they switch in suffices as punishment. In the event the team can afford another Stealth Rock user, then Marshtomp could opt for Scald or Yawn instead to pressure foes with status, though neither are as effective as Stealth Rock. A mixed defensive EV investment spread works best, (AC) as Marshtomp does not need much special bulk to counter Electabuzz, whereas extra physical bulk helps with Raboot.

Defoggers and Rapid Spin users like Vullaby and Wartortle often switch into Marshtomp when it uses Stealth Rock. Switching to an offensive teammate like Electabuzz, Choice Band Raboot, and Fraxure on the expected Defog or Rapid Spin as they clear Stealth Rock is a great way to bring them in safely and preserve momentum; if they don't go for removal, then Marshtomp at least secured Stealth Rock to punish them later on. As for Hattrem and its Magic Bounce, use Dark-types like Galarian Linoone, Vullaby, and Zweilous to beat it, as well as offensive partners like Lampent and Thwackey that can switch into Giga Drain with no problem. Defensive partners that resist Grass are also a must, so must; physical walls like Roselia, Tangela, Ferroseed, and Koffing compliment complement Marshtomp in this vein by checking Thwackey.

CREDITS]
- Written by: [[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d, 231074]]
- Quality checked by: [[Jett, 226429], [Mirbro, 451786]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Adeleine, 517429]]

adeleine1.gif

GP Team done
 
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