Rejected Make Family of Four Maushold the default instead of Family of Three

[DrPumpkinz]

It's very clearly intended to be the default form, with it being 100x more common than Family of Three and also the only one to get official art. I've been told that apparently Family of Three comes first in the game's code but if that's not a good enough reason for Vivillon it's definitely not a good enough reason for Maushold.

 

[HoeenHero]

Firstly, this was previously rejected https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/make-family-of-four-the-base-form-of-maushold.3714938/

Secondly, whats the point of this change? Does this have any competitive implications? Because this will break user's teams if implemented just like with the Vivillon report, and unless theres a good non-visual asthetics reason, I would like to avoid that.

Finally, the Vivillon report examines the SV data, but Vivillon was released in X/Y, if were really nitpicking this much, it would be better to see which forme is the default in those games and use that.

Regardless though we have no plans to change either of these at this time due to the issues mentioned above. Leaving this open for other devs to chime in if desired.

 

[Marty]

if that's not a good enough reason for Vivillon it's definitely not a good enough reason for Maushold

Equating Vivillon to Maushold is silly; it was known in advance which form of Maushold was the base, while in Vivillon's case the 3DS was still an impenetrable fortress of security when X and Y were released, so obviously arbitrary choices had to be made for all forms that debuted in those games. Most happened to be right, but once the actual data came out so much time had passed no one bothered fixing it (because it's obnoxious and there are always more important things to be doing).

If someone wants to put in the effort fix the Vivillon thing, they should. It's a lot more involved than you might think it is, and affects multiple projects beyond just the sim.

This suggestion as presented I guarantee you is not happening.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

You guys fixed the names of Paldean Tauros's forms, and that also broke people's teams. In fact, it broke teams featuring two Pokemon instead of just one, since only teams with specifically "Maushold-Four" would get affected. Teams with just "Maushold" would be fine.

 

[Marty]

You guys fixed the names of Paldean Tauros's forms, and that also broke people's teams.

Actually, I aliased the old Tauros names to the new Tauros names so there would be no breaking of teams. The only reason "Tauros-Paldea-Water" briefly prevented people from using existing teams with it is because after the change to Tauros-Paldea-Aqua, the sim had to interpret the previous name as a nickname since it was no longer a Pokemon name, and it was over 18 characters. Tauros-Paldea -> Tauros-Paldea-Combat and Tauros-Paldea-Fire -> Tauros-Paldea-Blaze had no such problems, and neither would any other name change that was under 19 characters to begin with.

So far all of your points boil down to "you guys did something wrong by accident so I would like you to also do this other thing wrong on purpose". Maushold won't be getting changed, please understand.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

So far all of your points boil down to "you guys did something wrong by accident so I would like you to also do this other thing wrong on purpose".

What? The only wrong thing you're doing here is making Family of Three the default. I brought up Vivillon not as an example of you guys doing something "wrong by accident" but as an example of you doing something right and then refusing to """fix""" it to match the game's internal code. Because it'd be really dumb for Showdown to treat Icy Snow as the default over Meadow when it's clearly not supposed to be.

 

[dhelmise]

We didn't implement Vivillon correctly and there are numerous TODOs throughout the sim's code marking that the Icy Snow form should be the base form. We have acknowledged it was an error in hindsight but like Marty already said, by the time we discovered an error was made it was not worth it to jump to fixing it because it was already wrong for quite some time. I still intend on eventually correcting this error, but the amount of cooperation that is entailed throughout the sim and client makes this a giant hassle that I don't have the time to tackle right now.

Icy Snow is quite literally the base form in XY's internal code (as well as ORAS, SM, USM, and SV's).

The only wrong thing you're doing here is making Family of Three the default.

Making Family of Three the base form is correct and intentional, even if it's the rarer of the two forms in-game.

This has been spelled out for you four times now, so I'm locking this thread because we just aren't doing it lol