That reminds me about Stoutland having Sand Rush instead of Slush Rush, because it seems like they were trying to invoke that idea at the time (with all of the Dex entries about rescuing people in the snow) but hadn't created Slush Rush yet.
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(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon
- Thread starter BriarRose
- Start date
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
I griped before about Sawsbuck's forms not being differentiated enough but this would have been such a great way to do that: having each form have a different weather ability. Obviously Slush Rush didn't exist back then but Sand Veil, Snow Cloak, and Chlorophyll all would have been fine in Gen V - might have needed a new ability for Rain, though, as I'm not sure Rain Dish or Swift Swim would really have worked on a deer (yes I know deer can swim, but still).
Like cosmetic-only forms are fine so it's not a major loss but it does make me wonder if there was ever any intention to link the seasons with the weather. In B2W2 N battles you each season with a different weather team: Hail for Winter, Rain for Spring, Sand for Autumn, and Sun for Summer. Nowhere else are the four main weather effects so explicitly paired with each season so it might just have been coincidental, but it did make me stop and think.
Hydration? Dry skin was also around though it likely has the more restrictive flavour constraint.
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Playing through Pearl right now it irks me once again that the Razor Claw and the Razor Fang are different items, not least because I can never remember which one is which. It feels like a particularly pernicious case of item bloat given that several other cross-gen evolutions in Gen IV use the same methods of evolution: Froslass and Gallade share the Dawn Stone, Honchkrow and Mismagius share the Dusk Stone, Roserade and Togekiss share the Shiny Stone, and Probopass and Magnezone both evolve in Mt Coronet's magnetic field. Neither item even has a unique effect that would justify their existence: the King's Rock and the Scope Lens do what they do already.
You can absolutely make the case that Weavile is more about its claws and Gliscor is more about its fangs, but would anyone really have given a single dusty fuck if they both evolved with one item named the Razor Talon?
You can absolutely make the case that Weavile is more about its claws and Gliscor is more about its fangs, but would anyone really have given a single dusty fuck if they both evolved with one item named the Razor Talon?
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Talon? That seems like an odd middle ground when neither has those.
UNLESS, now that we're just making Abilities into Items, why not change the effects of Razor Claw and Razor Fang to make them being different items worth it. Make Razor Fang an item version of Strong Jaw and Razor Claw the item version of Sharpness.
On the other hand, at least they have an effect at all. The Protector, Magmarizer, Electirizer, Reaper Cloth, and Oval Stone all do absolutely nothing in battle. The Oval Stone especially annoys me. Why not just make Happiny evolve through friendship like almost every other baby Pokémon? Why make the actual good item a wild Happiny/Chansey can hold even more annoying to get by giving this useless crap item to half of them all? Why not put Chansey in the Great Marsh so I can throw mud at them as revenge?
Probably because Chansey already evolves via friendship, and friendship carries over between evolutions, so it would just immediately evolve again the next level.
QuentinQuonce
formerly green_typhlosion
Ehhh... admittedly that was a word I plucked out of nowhere late last night, but I think there's enough justifiable overlap between pincers, claws, and talons that it wouldn't be unreasonable. Both Pokemon evolve using an item with a theme of sharpness.
It's not like either item is really incorporated that much into either Pokemon's design in any case (as opposed to, say, Rhydon and the Protector); Gligar already has prominent sharp fangs and Sneasel already has sharp claws.
While it's worthless to have multiple items with the same effect in smogon(aka unofficial and fanmade) formats, most official formats have item clause where no two Pokemon in your party can hold the same item. Granted, none of the duplicate-effect items even have good enough effects to be worth using(Most likely for balance reasons), but it still is by technicality a mechanical reason in favor of it, as useless and/or situational as that reason is.
Oh right, good point. n that case, I revise that to "why can't it just evolve at level 15 or so like Wynaut?"
Except Razor Fang and Razor Claw don't have the same effects.
- Razor Claw increases Moves Critical Hit Ratio by +1 (in reference to the Sneasel family learning quite a few Slash variant Moves which have an increased Critical Hit Ratio). While not a bad effect I feel Sharpness (which Moves it effects include most of the Slash variants; thinking about it a bit odd the Sneasel family doesn't get it) would be a more appreciated effect even if it effects less Pokemon.
- Razor Fang gives certain Moves a 10% chance to Flinch (in reference to the Gligar family learning biting Moves which a few having chance of Flinching). While certainly handy if the Pokemon (1) has a Move which is affected and (2) you're lucky enough to get the Flinch, I don't think it'll be that major of a loss if its specialized to biting users giving them a much more appreciated Strong Jaw boost.
I feel you can fold this into a bigger question that has been asked before: What is the point of Baby Pokemon? Especially those for previous Gen Pokemon that came after Gen II thus require an Incense to get. Gen VIII made it so their evolutions learned any unique Moves they got (and even then most were niche or there were better options), rarely are they used as early Route Pokemon, and they are generally weaker than Basic Stage Pokemon so don't think they're making major waves in Little Cup or can be niche Eviolite users. Also many have unique Evolution methods, and while some you'll eventually hit naturally, others you need to go out of your way (the Friendship ones may also have the Baby Pokemon stay around longer than it needs to unless you do all you can do to grind Friendship).
Outside a few exceptions they exist as:
Gen 2 in particular experimented a lot with that (Unown's the immediate extra example, but we also have just all the "wow this pokemon is just bad" and "this pokemon is rare AND bad"), and then sort of kept that going through gen 3 & gen 4 at which point the tipping point finally got reached and people weren't thrilled with babies being a new addition to a line (or in some cases, cutting a line off). It's likely not coincidental that while evolutions came back in various ways (first as Megas, then as regional evolutions, and now we have a mix of what-might-be-kind-of-normal evos and regionals), cross-gen babies haven't come back at all; they have other avenues for "collection-based" Pokemon and can incorporate "weaker" Pokemon as just the base stage of a given Pokemon.
- Way to tie into a new mechanic
- Interesting flavor (to the developers) to be added to lines, whether by "completing" a line they didn't want to take further or
- A new avenue of collecting Pokemon
Gen 2 in particular experimented a lot with that (Unown's the immediate extra example, but we also have just all the "wow this pokemon is just bad" and "this pokemon is rare AND bad"), and then sort of kept that going through gen 3 & gen 4 at which point the tipping point finally got reached and people weren't thrilled with babies being a new addition to a line (or in some cases, cutting a line off). It's likely not coincidental that while evolutions came back in various ways (first as Megas, then as regional evolutions, and now we have a mix of what-might-be-kind-of-normal evos and regionals), cross-gen babies haven't come back at all; they have other avenues for "collection-based" Pokemon and can incorporate "weaker" Pokemon as just the base stage of a given Pokemon.
On the subject of annoyances about held items with duplicate effects, the saga of the missing Fairy-type boosting held item, the one case in which I actively want there to be a redundant item clone, continues to take me for a ride.
Gen 6: Introduces the Pixie Plate and Roseli Berry and even a virtually unused Fairy Gem, but no Charcoal/Mystic Water/Black Belt “generic” equivalent
Gen 7: We’re coasting; there’s still no generic equivalent added but at least all of the Plates can be obtained after beating Nanu
Gen 8: All 17 generic items are here, but because Arceus isn’t programmed into the game, none of the Plates are obtainable except for the Pixie Plate, which can occasionally show up at the Stow-on-Side market. They had to make an exception for this Plate because it is the only Fairy-type boosting held item.
Gen 9: All 17 generic items are here yet again, but this time, Arceus is programmed into the game… but because it’s a transfer exclusive, its corresponding form change items can only be gotten from the market in Porto Marinada if you have an Arceus in your party… meaning that Fairy types simply have no boosting item to use at all until HOME compatibility comes, and even then, you still need to own an Arceus that you can transfer over!
All you had to do was repurpose the old Pink Bow, GF
Gen 6: Introduces the Pixie Plate and Roseli Berry and even a virtually unused Fairy Gem, but no Charcoal/Mystic Water/Black Belt “generic” equivalent
Gen 7: We’re coasting; there’s still no generic equivalent added but at least all of the Plates can be obtained after beating Nanu
Gen 8: All 17 generic items are here, but because Arceus isn’t programmed into the game, none of the Plates are obtainable except for the Pixie Plate, which can occasionally show up at the Stow-on-Side market. They had to make an exception for this Plate because it is the only Fairy-type boosting held item.
Gen 9: All 17 generic items are here yet again, but this time, Arceus is programmed into the game… but because it’s a transfer exclusive, its corresponding form change items can only be gotten from the market in Porto Marinada if you have an Arceus in your party… meaning that Fairy types simply have no boosting item to use at all until HOME compatibility comes, and even then, you still need to own an Arceus that you can transfer over!
All you had to do was repurpose the old Pink Bow, GF
Or the Satchet or Whipped Dream, let them be more than just an evolution item.On the subject of annoyances about held items with duplicate effects, the saga of the missing Fairy-type boosting held item, the one case in which I actively want there to be a redundant item clone, continues to take me for a ride.
All you had to do was repurpose the old Pink Bow, GF
I was referring to Razor Claw/Scope Lens and Razor Fang/King's Rock, not Razor Claw/Razor Fang. What I meant was that both of them had in-battle effects identical to other hold items(Many of the Incenses also are functional clones of other hold items)
Ah, I see. Still, I think I made valid arguments for the changes I suggested. If anything them being duplicates make it so those effects aren't lost (just means can't have two Pokemon with those effects, though ignoring those items are usual looked over anyway, is better to vary your strategy).
I would have thought Tough Claws before Sharpness, but I guess a narrower but stronger boost makes a bit more sense for an "item ability"
Flavour-wise, I don't think Strong Jaw's effect should be given to an item like the Razor Fang. The way I see it, Strong Jaw emphasises the crushing power of certain Pokemon's jaws, whereas the Razor Fang, being linked to Gligar and Gliscor specifically, focuses on the use of fangs to pierce the target. A flat power boost makes sense for the former while an increased flinch chance makes sense for the latter (even if it applies to more than just biting moves).
Another option for a "piercing" boost could be critical damage (mirroring Sniper). Though for symmetry reasons, Razor Claw should probably keep critical rate if this change was made.
And who really wants an item that gives Dracovish the same boost as a choice band while giving it the freedom to switch moves, no thanks mr fish.
Castersvarog
formerly Maronmario
Man, I’d love to see that be a thing just so more Grass types could be able to make use of Rain. Sure Grass types have synergy with Sunny day, what with Solar beam, Solar power, Chlorophyll and a buffed Synthesis being a thing. But that comes with a bigger weakness to fire for just about every grass type. Meanwhile Rain is great for grass types, removing their common fire weakness.
Like, they could make Sun into the more offensive weather for grass. Meanwhile Rain could be a defensive weather for it, with new abilities buffing defense, or have a leftovers effect when it’s raining. From there you could make a grass type move that’s buffed when in Rain
You could even have an ability exclusive to certain Grass-types that applies different, powerful buffs when either Rain or Sun is activated, as a nod to the fact that most plants need both to thrive. It'd require dedicated team support, which limits its overall power and splashability, but I think Pokemon could always do with more of these types of strategies that you have to dedicate multiple teamslots to.
I know of at least one fangame that's played with this idea, by having a specialised terrain/field that grows and transforms whenever the weather changes to either heavy rain or harsh sunlight, leading to increasingly powerful passive effects for Grass-types.