Liepard Suspect Discussion (Read post #202)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Assuming you somehow get Toxic Spikes down in the face of ShufflePard, how are you going to force it out? The opponent can use ShufflePard to bring out something that cannot hurt Arbok, then bring it in to absorb Toxic Spikes....assuming it even needs Toxic Spikes gone at some point. It is this kind of control ShufflePard has on the match that makes it broken. Phazing moves were never meant to go first this easily, because even Riolu needs that free turn and is still slow enough to be outsped by faster priority.

It is a good method against SwagPard, but Poison-types make good teammates regardless due to them resisting its weaknesses.
I was thinking to set the spikes on their lead hazard user (golem or Golurk or whatever). Then when Liepard comes in it will be auto poisoned. Anyway, this is just one strategy with faults to stop one threat, making assist a large issue.
 
I was thinking to set the spikes on their lead hazard user (golem or Golurk or whatever). Then when Liepard comes in it will be auto poisoned. Anyway, this is just one http://[URL with faults to stop one threat, making assist a large issue.
I don't want to be rude but are you even aware how assist teams lay hazards? They don't carry hazard users, but instead use Ditto to transform into your hazard user. The reason for this is that Assist can choose hazard moves and thus your assist strategy wont work. Arbok can also easily absorb toxic spikes and its not exactly the easiest thing to remove Arbok.
 
I don't really agree with the idea that something has to be broken on everything to be banned.

By that logic, SmashPassing should be reinstituted because it wasn''t broken on say..Clamperl or whatever. Really mostly Smeargle and maybe Gorebyss but mostly Smeargle due to Spore and Sash.
 

atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I don't really agree with the idea that something has to be broken on everything to be banned.

By that logic, SmashPassing should be reinstituted because it wasn''t broken on say..Clamperl or whatever. Really mostly Smeargle and maybe Gorebyss but mostly Smeargle due to Spore and Sash.
Clamperl doesn't get baton pass, smash pass was broken on everything that got it.
 
Last edited:
First ran across the assistpard at the top of the OU ladder. To an under prepared team, albeit an overpowered offensive OU team, prankster assist destroyed my team with rocks up. The rest of the team was fairly unimportant. While very gimmicky, this strategy is very consistent and formulaic.

Step 1: coax stealth rock user into play, or assist roar until it is forced into play
Step 2: switch your faster liepard into trasform-ditto
Step 3: set up rocks
Step 4: assist roar to kingdom come

This strategy requires no skill. I'm just getting into NU, but I have some drive to help ban such a broken strategy.
 

skylight

a sky full of lighters ☆
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I'd rather face Riolu than Assist Purrloin any day tbh.
On this note, the hugest problem really is that Liepard (and other assist users) don't get a chance to take a hit, whereas Riolu can be hit with Toxic, or something else to at least wear it down on the turn it tries to force you out. For Assist users they're basically invincible for all the time Assist is used and get to play on their terms. Riolu has the similar strategy but has way less control, which is why Assist is so problematic with Prankster compared to Copycat. Related to that, teams can actually benefit from Liepard to beat Riolu thanks to its faster prankster priority, so I think that's something which puts banning Assist + Prankster as something that should be done rather than losing Liepard if you really hate that strategy.
 
I think that Liepard deserves to be banned, because of two things. Firstly, it relies purely on luck in NU, and can wreck whole teams BECAUSE OF LUCK. If Liepard is allowed, I think Minimize and Double team should be (which I don't think should be allowed). Also, in Ubers, I find since there is no Sleep Clause, Spore Smeargle + Assist, Sub, Nasty Plot, Dark Pulse Liepard is totally broken and should not be allowed. I haven't actually seen Assistpard in NU, but I'm sure its just as stupid. I think Liepard deserves the Banhammer as soon as possible. I'm serious, BAN IT.
 
I think that Liepard deserves to be banned, because of two things. Firstly, it relies purely on luck in NU, and can wreck whole teams BECAUSE OF LUCK. If Liepard is allowed, I think Minimize and Double team should be (which I don't think should be allowed). Also, in Ubers, I find since there is no Sleep Clause, Spore Smeargle + Assist, Sub, Nasty Plot, Dark Pulse Liepard is totally broken and should not be allowed. I haven't actually seen Assistpard in NU, but I'm sure its just as stupid. I think Liepard deserves the Banhammer as soon as possible. I'm serious, BAN IT.
But it doesn't rely on luck. Read the thread to understand that Swagpard is fine. (And so is Assistpard)
 
But it doesn't rely on luck. Read the thread to understand that Swagpard is fine. (And so is Assistpard)
Assistpard is anything but fine. It requires little to no team support with its broken strategy and the only thing holding it back is hazard-less teams and limited PP on assist.
 
Prankster can be an effective, but not unstoppable, strategy with some Pokemon. Like how Sableye's Prankster shenanigans are pretty much neutered by Xatu. Liepard just happens to have certain moves and strategies that make them broken, unlike Sableye or Volbeat. In order to keep some balance, complex bans would be the best way to go about this, in my opinion.
(Oh, and a complex ban would be better because Liepard has other strats like Twave Encore, CB and U-turn, etc. that take advantage of its ability and stats but aren't broke so yeah)
Sorry if I'm a broken record, I should probably read the entire thread before laying my opinion out there but dhitgbfihfisdgubfsduigtsdfiugdgbuksgd
 
With all due respect, if you think AssistPard is okay, maybe you should go back and read the thread yourself. There are posters in this thread that can articulate it better than I can, and veteran NU players that know more than I do, but the bottom line is that AssistPard is NOT okay, and something needs to be done.
Let me pitch this: Pokemon is balanced based on usage. This is a fact and Smogon functions based off of this. Good things get used and bad things aren't used. So if Assistpard is so good, then why does nobody use it? Why is Assistpard such a rarity yet deemed "horribly broken" while everything in the top ten of usage is considered balance?
 
lol you really think that because something isn't top 10 usage its not broken. Usage has no effect whatsoever on suspecting. The fact is that assist Liepard/purrloin/persian to an extent is uncompetitive and generally unhealthy for the metagame. The usage Liepard gets doesn't affect it in the slightest. Many people don't know the strategy exists, and a lot of people don't choose to use it because only (BAN ME PLEASE)s like flcl use it its simply uncompetitive and almost never provides a fun match.
 
Agreed. Wobbuffet had like 2% usage in UU and still got banned. Auto-hail was at 4% or so when it was banned from RU.

In fact, I'd go further - AssistPard's rarity arguably makes it MORE broken. Because AssistPard is so constraining on teambuilding, players are often forced to choose between countering AssistPard teams and countering the other 99% of the metagame. They obviously choose the latter, leaving AssistPard teams with many easy wins against teams which can't counter them. (Remember, to counter AssistPard, every Pokemon on your team must be able to deal with it, or Liepard will just shuffle your team until the Liepard-weak mon comes out. This precludes otherwise top-tier mons like Musharna and Alomomola.) If every other team was an AssistPard team, those teams would be actively counter-teamed, and do far less well.
 

atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Let me pitch this: Pokemon is balanced based on usage. This is a fact and Smogon functions based off of this. Good things get used and bad things aren't used. So if Assistpard is so good, then why does nobody use it? Why is Assistpard such a rarity yet deemed "horribly broken" while everything in the top ten of usage is considered balance?
Usage has nothing to do with being broken, ugh this is honestly my pet peeve during suspect tests so let me repeat it usage has nothing to do with being broken. When Gothitelle was banned in UU it was in NU and seeing less than 2% usage in UU, hail in RU was only seeing 5% usage in RU before it was suspect and found broken.

Honestly, people in this thread need to:
1) Stop complaining about swagpard as that has nothing to do with this suspect, so please stop bitching about hax.
2) Stop bringing up Liepard in other tiers, on this page alone I see people talking about assist pard in Ubers and OU, and through out the thread every newb and their mom has commented on Liepard in other tiers this is an NU suspect discussion.
3) stop theorymonning, if you haven't played assist pard in NU either watch one of the many videos FLCL, Tennisace or myself have posted in the thread, or stfu.

I know this post sounds really angry, but I'm not angry, I just find it really annoying when people, who clearly have very little idea about the metagame (people bringing up other tiers), Liepard (people who say "I haven't faced Liepard in NU, but..."), or what this discussion is about (swagpard beat my team :() spam the thread, covering up the actual discussion points being brought up.

If you want to contribute positively to this thread, I suggest you first understand what assist Liepard does, and how it goes about winning. Then either play against someone using it or play with it yourself for a bit on the ladder. If you are feeling particularly ballsy try it out with either Persian or Purrloin as well.

Sorry if this post is mean, or mini-modding, neither of which is my intention, I'd just like to see some actual relevant discussion in this thread, instead of 20 posts of someone not grasping the concept of assist cat, and then 20 posts explaining it.
 
Last edited:
Where do people even get the idea that usage=broken lol

Gothitelle was one of the most broken things ever with shadow tag and it was only about the 30th most used poke in UU when it was banned

Until today, I hadn't battled AssistPard in person and generally just agreed with others that it was broken using the replays I'd seen to back this up. Since I pretty much knew the standard AssistPard team really well when I went into this match, I was hopeful that I might be able to escape being swept by this thing:

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/nucurrent-55968800

(at turn 2, I thought roselia was faster than Shiftry for some reason, my bad) This was not the case, as you can see from the replay. I even specifically tried not to go into my hazard setters (again turn 2 was just a bad play by me but fortunately didn't hurt me immediately) as soon as I could to hopefully prevent ditto from coming in and ruining my chances of winning. Granted, I was pretty tired but still it wasn't as if I had no idea what I was doing.

Even if you know AssistPard like the back of your hand and you never go into a hazard setter, all your opponent has to do is spam whirlwind until something like Roserade is dragged in, and then switch out to ditto while you sit there helplessly. Since chances are whatever whirlwinded you in will be faster than your hazard setter, this is unpreventable even if you switch out immediately. Thus, you could be the most skilled player in NU, but no matter what you do, with any given team you're already destined to be able to stop Liepard (unlikely) or lose.

Now the team I was using was fairly well rounded and generally solid (I was 24-4 before this battle), yet the battle was over before it even began.

If AssistPard isn't banned then there is naught right in the world.

I apologize if any of this is repetitive (I'm really tired again) but for those of you who are having trouble deciding whether this thing is broken or not, try to get a battle against one of these teams (or use one) and I can pretty much assure you that its brokenness will become apparent pretty quickly.
 
I think that Liepard deserves to be banned, because of two things. Firstly, it relies purely on luck in NU, and can wreck whole teams BECAUSE OF LUCK. If Liepard is allowed, I think Minimize and Double team should be (which I don't think should be allowed). Also, in Ubers, I find since there is no Sleep Clause, Spore Smeargle + Assist, Sub, Nasty Plot, Dark Pulse Liepard is totally broken and should not be allowed. I haven't actually seen Assistpard in NU, but I'm sure its just as stupid. I think Liepard deserves the Banhammer as soon as possible. I'm serious, BAN IT.
I disagree about that. I use Liepard as weather supporter; it's useful, very helpful for setting weather but is not broken. The combo Assist-Prankster is really "winning", although is anything except play.
 
That's not exactly the best example since that guy played pretty badly with the team. Once he got SR up, he should have gone straight to Liepard after Ditto died and started phazing. I don't see any reason why he felt it necessary to go to Lopunny and then let Drifblim die, especially since having Drifblim in on your opponent's last Pokemon with one of your own in reserve is a common win condition of the team. Also, Ditto is one of the more dangerous things a Liepard without a Substitute can run into, yet he Dark Pulsed instead of Assisted, costing him his Liepard. I don't see why he switched to Shiftry from Arbok against Serperior either. Even if you seeded, it would have probably been better to just Dragon Tail for chip damage and let Shiftry come in for free once Arbok is down. You also got lucky with that crit since otherwise, Shiftry would have taken two Giga Drains, stalled an extra turn with Protect, and probably killed Serperior off with Theif. If he didn't sack his Lopunny, he could burn Serperior with the Flame Orb and maybe Switcheroo the Black Sludge back onto it, making you take far more passive damage every turn, and Drifblim could use either Trick or Destiny Bond and end the game right there if you used the wrong move.

I know you're not trying to argue against a ban with that replay, but I'm just saying, that guy did not play the team very well. If it were me in that same situation, that would have been a much different last Pokemon matchup.
 

WhiteDMist

Path>Goal
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
I just thought that this may be of use.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/nucurrent-56007188

Once again, although Assist+Prankster is banworthy, I maintain my stand that Assistpard isn't "overpowered" but it is "annoying". It can't 6-0, in my opinion I'd ragequit even before it would get to that point.

Annoying as fuck, but not unbeatable.
What Agent Gibbs said. I'm not sure what that replay is supposed to prove though. Your opponent was using the AssistPard team terribly, since he wasted Lopunny and Drifblim for absolutely no reason. Once Ditto set up Stealth Rock, he should have simply went into Liepard and Assist-Whirlwind until it took out most of your team. Your own Ditto would have been unreliable since it had no recovery and would have been locked into Assist/Encore at best. What he did with Drifblim was the worst play since it is one of the main keys to winning against last mons if Liepard cannot find time to set up due to Destiny Bond and Trick.

Liepard is annoying, no one doubts that (that I know of at least). If that were enough, then we might have considered suspecting Liepard a long time ago. The reason we are considering all of this is because of the Assist Liepard team, which most people with a moderate level of skill can use. Sure, there are ways to beat it (we've listed many already) but they are not foolproof. But if you play terribly with an AssistCat team (intentionally or not), then a decent opponent can take advantage of that.

All teams do their best to find ways to check or counter other teams while still maintaining a win condition. This is a strategy to win, as both players have a good chance to win by choosing their battles and trying to outpredict their opponents. Making a mistake can be a problem depending on how late in the game it is, or how unprepared for a problem a team is. Facing an AssistPard team is different. Rather than trying to focus on removing a particular threat to your team, the opposing team has to focus on avoiding a particular scenario (hazard setter vs. Ditto) and cannot afford to make a single mistake. Since Liepard can Assist itself into an ideal scenario most of the time (bar Magic Coat, Suction Cups) the opponent must never make a mistake or they will lose. Now most of the AssistPard team is made up of Pokemon sets that would normally be considered terrible, but they are specifically tailored to guarantee that Liepard succeeds as often as possible. That is nothing new, many teams try to support a certain win condition. The difference is that most teams cannot simply remove an entire team until they are down to their last Pokemon, forcing it to have to be one that can take out every single member of the team on its own. Liepard can even overpower last mons due to Nasty Plot, so that isn't an ideal situation either. The point I'm trying to make is that for most standard teams, when they face Liepard they tend to try to not lose rather than try to win. Make of that what you will.
 

termi

bike is short for bichael
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
I just don't see how anyone would want to keep this strategy alive when it is so reliant on team matchups, so annoying to deal with, so uncompetitive, and if it will become more popular, so unhealthy for the metagame. Imagine 10% of all nu teams would be assist teams. We would be forced to sacrifice a spot on our teams for something that can beat Liepard, and most of the things that can do so are pretty bad and wouldn't be useful in the other 90% of the battles. On top of that, most of these things aren't even surefire counters. Only Fake Out/Extremespeed users and other priority users with over 106 base speed (Floatzel and???) would provide a pretty sure way of keeping Liepard at bay, but the team could easily switch in on these and attempt to cripple them with Switcheroo and such. Then there's the issue that Extremespeed users in nu tend to be pretty bad, the only really good Fake Out user is Kangaskhan and the only good +106 speed priority user is Floatzel so uhhh yeah

tl;dr it is managable now, but really fucking uncompetitive as explained in 90% of the posts int his thread and extremely unhealthy for the meta once the general public catches up to this new hype.
 
Robert Alfons
the only good +106 speed priority user is Floatzel so uhhh yeah

swellow exists
I agree though; the fact that you are being forced to run at least 2 answers to Liepard (unless you have Cradily) is just bad. There is also the fact that, unlike when this issue came up in the Jynx suspect, these Pokemon are actually bad and will serve little to no use in the majority of your other games. This limits teambuilding greatly. Even with these checks you don't have a guaranteed win, as something else on the team can just take it out (nature power, destiny bond, residual damage from flame orb/black sludge, etc.). Its just unhealthy and deserves to be limited in some way.
 
The point I'm trying to make is that for most standard teams, when they face Liepard they tend to try to not lose rather than try to win.
My thoughts exactly. I'll run through this replay of my standard team against a top-ladder Assistcat team to show that even with smart plays on my part, Assistcat forces its broken strategy to work. All i can do is make sure he doesn't get my hazards up, beat down the rest of his team and force liepard to waste its assist PP.

pokemonshowdown.com/replay/nucurrent-55847211

Turn 1: I lead with mixed attacking Eelektross, he with copycat Lopunny. Eel wears down the bunny. No hazards up

Turn 7: (VITAL TURN) With Lopunny down, Ytivarg sends in liepard and assist roars in my spike stacking Scolipede. I play it safe and switch out to avoid the ditto. Scolipede is faster than liepard, so once again... hazards avoided. Knowing he needs those spikes to win and that the ditto is incoming, i switch to SD samurott to set up on his scarf ditto. More of his teammates are foddered.

Turn 18: liepard assist roars in my scolipede again. Since i switched last time, I smell the substitute coming, so i aqua tail to break it, and i miss.

Turn 19: He roars me out to my slower hazard user, piloswine. At this point, there's no chance of avoiding the ditto switch, so i decide to get some damage on ditto and set up my own rocks. Shiftry is foddered to keep ditto alive.

Turn 24: it's 5 to 3, and I've only allowed stealth rocks to get set on my side, but assistcat is here for the next ~thirty turns. Not only did prankster-assist-roar force my hazard users out, it is about to wear my team down to the bone. I try my best to break any substitutes he uses and purposely kill off my scolipede to ensure he doesn't get any more hazards.

Turn 53: I've successfully stalled liepard out of assists. And piloswine cleans up (with a nice little spite crit thrown in for flavor)

GG Ytivarg

Sorry if this is a boring game, but all games against assistpard are... if this strategy doesn't get banned i think we're gonna have a very unhappy player base
 

atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I just don't see how anyone would want to keep this strategy alive when it is so reliant on team matchups, so annoying to deal with, so uncompetitive, and if it will become more popular, so unhealthy for the metagame. Imagine 10% of all nu teams would be assist teams. We would be forced to sacrifice a spot on our teams for something that can beat Liepard, and most of the things that can do so are pretty bad and wouldn't be useful in the other 90% of the battles. On top of that, most of these things aren't even surefire counters. Only Fake Out/Extremespeed users and other priority users with over 106 base speed (Floatzel and???) would provide a pretty sure way of keeping Liepard at bay, but the team could easily switch in on these and attempt to cripple them with Switcheroo and such. Then there's the issue that Extremespeed users in nu tend to be pretty bad, the only really good Fake Out user is Kangaskhan and the only good +106 speed priority user is Floatzel so uhhh yeah

tl;dr it is managable now, but really fucking uncompetitive as explained in 90% of the posts int his thread and extremely unhealthy for the meta once the general public catches up to this new hype.
There are a few problems that I have with this post, although I agree with the general principle behind what you are saying (that this is completely team match up reliant and uncompetitive). First off, I'd like to point out that the things that can prevent Liepard from working aren't "pretty bad", Probopass makes it extremely hard for the opponent to lay down rocks, as it can just volt switch away into something that can OHKO it. Cradily although not great, isn't horrible and can still be a decent support mon for your team vs. non Liepard assist teams, then there is always the Golem + CB Sawk combos that can make it extremely hard for the opponent to set up rocks as well. CB Linoone with Extreme Speed has a 50% chance to KO, and regular Linoone has a decent chance to KO on the second time in barring a really long period between being shuffled out. Swellow also occupies a speed tier above Liepards and commonly carries quick attack (well it should always).

But I am inclined to agree that this needs to be stopped, a more relevant question, which I brought up earlier, is that of Purrloin. Does the fact that it has a lower speed (base 66) and worse defenses (41/37/37), meaning it is much more susceptible to priority, as well as its total lack of ability to generate any offensive presence make it not broken? I laddered with Purrloin and peaked number 4 (would have been higher if it weren't for sid and shuckles ;-; ), but many of my wins were due to playing incompetent players, where if the roles had been reversed, I would have won with their team. Or due to my opponents rage quitting when they had a huge chance of victory (ie I had two assist pp left, lol). So my question is (and this should determine whether you vote for a prankster+assist ban or liepard ban), is: Does prankster + assist break the game, or is it the additional ability of Liepard to phaze to a mon it can set up on the part that is truly game breaking? Or is the fact that Purrloin also creates matches that are (mostly) decided based on team match up warrant a ban as well?

Another question that seems to constantly be brought up during this discussion is whether or not we should ban it because it is "boring to play against" or "annoying"? I definitely don't think that warrants a ban, but it has been brought up many times.

I'd like to see some discussion on these points please, as they seem to have gotten glossed over with all the hum drum of suspect testing.
 
There are a few problems that I have with this post, although I agree with the general principle behind what you are saying (that this is completely team match up reliant and uncompetitive). First off, I'd like to point out that the things that can prevent Liepard from working aren't "pretty bad", Probopass makes it extremely hard for the opponent to lay down rocks, as it can just volt switch away into something that can OHKO it. Cradily although not great, isn't horrible and can still be a decent support mon for your team vs. non Liepard assist teams, then there is always the Golem + CB Sawk combos that can make it extremely hard for the opponent to set up rocks as well. CB Linoone with Extreme Speed has a 50% chance to KO, and regular Linoone has a decent chance to KO on the second time in barring a really long period between being shuffled out. Swellow also occupies a speed tier above Liepards and commonly carries quick attack (well it should always).

But I am inclined to agree that this needs to be stopped, a more relevant question, which I brought up earlier, is that of Purrloin. Does the fact that it has a lower speed (base 66) and worse defenses (41/37/37), meaning it is much more susceptible to priority, as well as its total lack of ability to generate any offensive presence make it not broken? I laddered with Purrloin and peaked number 4 (would have been higher if it weren't for sid and shuckles ;-; ), but many of my wins were due to playing incompetent players, where if the roles had been reversed, I would have won with their team. Or due to my opponents rage quitting when they had a huge chance of victory (ie I had two assist pp left, lol). So my question is (and this should determine whether you vote for a prankster+assist ban or liepard ban), is: Does prankster + assist break the game, or is it the additional ability of Liepard to phaze to a mon it can set up on the part that is truly game breaking? Or is the fact that Purrloin also creates matches that are (mostly) decided based on team match up warrant a ban as well?

Another question that seems to constantly be brought up during this discussion is whether or not we should ban it because it is "boring to play against" or "annoying"? I definitely don't think that warrants a ban, but it has been brought up many times.

I'd like to see some discussion on these points please, as they seem to have gotten glossed over with all the hum drum of suspect testing.

I think a universal ban on prankster + assist is definitely the way to go. Purrloin really isn't that much worse than Liepard when you get down to it and has the same typing, same ability, same movepool, same problem. Liepard's also incredibly weak in the first place so frailty shouldn't really matter when discussing a ban on Purrloin. Just look at 4th gen. When Wobbuffet was banned, so was its much much much inferior pre-evolution, Wynaut. The gap between Purrloin and Liepard is no where near the gap between Wynaut and Wobbufet but the two were banned together nonetheless because they both utilized the same strategy that was deemed broken at the time.

An obvious question that arises out of this is, "with that logic, shouldn't other inferior assist users then be banned too if the slightly inferior Purrloin is broken?"

The answer is, no, of course not. Other assist users are susceptible to all forms of priority regardless of speed (expect sucker punch), anything scarfed and anything faster. This means that generally most teams will have a solid answer for non-prankster assist users which means that you can't really call this broken. Purrloin has only a couple of counters that Liepard doesn't have and the only things I can think of that fall into this category are quick attack Zangoose and Basculin.

As to the possible annoyingness=ban thing, if annoyingness warranted a ban, then we'd be suspecting Gothorita.
 
Last edited:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/nucurrent-56242046
That's a match I have just had. The guy with the Liepard team was pretty good, I think someone else on this thread had battled him already (I don't remember who, sorry)
I think I made some good plays during this match (thunder wave on Lopunny, switch toad into Whirlwind, etcetc). Anyways I lost. Assist had only 4-5 PPs left I guess, and the poison crippled my Seismitoad in the end. I agree with Lasagne21, the only way to stop this Liepard is using a faster priority user or outspeed Liepard on the switch. That's not simple anyway, as I can't think of a SR setter faster than Liepard, maybe Swift Swim Seismitoad under rain is the only one (turn 36)
That's not the first time I have seen this team on the ladder, but nobody knew how to use this team efficiently like this guy did.
If I get the reqs for the vote, I'll most likely vote to ban Prankster+Assist (I don't want to say again all the reasons, it's the 11th page of the thread, I think people understood them)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top