Announcement LC Suspect — The Drum

" Magby can setup on 3 of the most common pokemon in the tier; Natu, Koffing, and Pawniard. "

1- Natu
* Natu can run twave so it'd be stupid to setup Magby without scouting Natu's set.

* 36 SpA Natu Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magby: 12-15 (60 - 75%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Possible damage amounts: (12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 15).
Ok you need rock but with rock you can kill Magby with Psychic + Fake Out or Grassy Glide.
Twave on natu has pretty significant issues, mainly losing every natu duel and not being to safely attack in teams with like frill/ trace pory without losing a lot of momentum, again, making ur team wayyy worst jsut so u dont isnta lose to magby. Magby can also run sub if it wants to scout anyways, and if u twave the sub ur basically completly fucked.

3- Pawniard
* Like Natu, Pawn can run twave.

* 156 Atk Pawniard Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magby: 12-15 (60 - 75%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Possible damage amounts: (12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 13, 15)
With rock again but it's the same as Natu.
u cannot run twave unless u have another pokemon with rocks, which is pretty easy to see from preview, this isnt fool proof at all. Also this is the best case scenario, where u dont have screens up, and ur mienfoo is still alive to revenge ko, and it isnt burned, and the magby isnt protect, and theres no terrain (the healing puts u out of fake out range).

In conclusion, ok try to setup Magby on Koffing, Natu or Pawn but do it without rocks and without a prio user able to revenge kill, or a scarf user, or a bulky mon who can take 1 hit from +6 Magby...
Once again, if we ban Magby only to nerf HO then it's a bad idea imo. If Tyrunt was suspect, should we ban it in order to nerf HO? I think this is a flawed logic.
Priority: If ur grookey is lo it just dies to mach, evio doesnt do that much anyways, pawn dies to mach, foo has issues of needing sac half ur team most of the time, timburr exists ig but if ur not in mach range (not too hard with screens), u die.

Scarfers: Mudbray, frillish, golett, thats ur options, they arent splashable at all+ they kinda suck lol.

"a bulky mon who can take 1 hit from +6 Magby...": Onix has the issue of usually the tyrunt check, so its not at full, runt is iffy ig? Both of these generally arent amazing anyways since its hard to setup vs cheese and u can get trapped. Tho ig they are better than nothing and dont suck. Tho mandating one of these on every team is unreasonable.

Finally, tyrunt has wayyyy more offensive and defensive checks, didnt bother counting exactly but imo its a pretty reasonable amount for a mon that isnt as all or nothing as magby and its a lot easier to soft check with simple move slot edits. I know you said this as a hypothetical and not an actual thing but magby is wayyyyyyyy more limiting in therms of building and way more Degenerate in therms of in game than any other single pokemon that is currently legal.

Tyrunt is also used as a wincon on balance since it doesnt require as much assistance as magby, theirfore it would cause much more collateral on the meta as whole, vs the only collateral of magby being the end of that one guy on ladder who uses toxic magby.
 

PigWarrior19

unmon connoisseur
is a Tiering Contributor
Pardon the structure I’m typing this on my phone

I despise this little monster it’s amazing speed tier amazing attack stat amazing typing and access to decent stab amazing coverage in mach, t punch and decent enough bulk to easily set up on koff burnt foo and even foongus and ferro if it runs sub or vital spirit (for spore)

There are a bunch of things that beat magby but they are either beaten by grooky take to much from SR/spikes or can’t do enough behind screens such as sash digglet and chinchou sash digglet can win 1v1 but not after SR into mach or if mag is adamant even evio digglet can’t do it after rocks chinchou doesn’t do enough to mag behind screens to beat it properly mag just makes it way to easy to facilitate a win condition with screens or memento or key burns on physical attackers mag is just to customizable with its partners and to tuff with light clay screens support.
So I will totally be voting Ban as of now on this insane fire duck
And if light clay or grooky are ever suspected I’ll also be voting Ban

Note had to add that Choice scarf infiltrator zubat does not beat magby at full always :(
236 Atk Zubat Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magby: 18-22 (90 - 110%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (18, 18, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 22)
 
Last edited:

Colin

formerly BeardedDrakon
is a Tiering Contributor
LCPL Champion
Soon after this post, the laddering session of this suspect is going to end. Since my earlier posts on this thread, I have been convinced that Magby should be banned. While teams are able to adapt to it without using bad sets, It still remains very centralizing, as if you don't have specific checks you will lose. Twave to deny setup on Pawniard and Natu helps a lot, but there is significant opportunity cost on both, and in Pawniard's case it can be identified on preview easily. Substitute Adamant Magby is a worse set, but its plenty viable and in the context of specific team structures is good, and this set can invalidate Twave as an answer, and the Adamant nature allows it to have good odds to get past Eviolite Diglett, bj Onix, and defense invested Tyrunt with rocks up. 19 speeders are a viable crutch vs Magby, but they'll never be reliable vs its best set. My point is that Magby is capable of getting past its answers with the right set and support, and setup can also be assured via damage mitigation such as screens and memento.

That point in my eyes is an important part of why Magby is a good, even at SCL level, but it isn't the main catalyst of me wanting it banned. A sweeper being able to break through its checks with proper support doesn't make it ban worthy. Instead, its the sheer amount of structures that Magby teams invalidate. Consider cores such as Porygon + Trapinch, Carvanha bo (don't yell psyfang at me pls), and whatever other teams don't use Eviolite Diglett and the lack of flexibility for other slots that Magby's presence causes. Before Magby became prominent, PoryPinch was considered one of the most versatile archetypes (granted scarf pory would've died out anyway), but now it has to fit Abra to 50 50 it, instead of Natu, Carvanha, etc that it might otherwise prefer. Magby itself doesn't usually provide skillful play, as the flowchart of set screens and rocks, go Grookey/whichever threat, force in passive mon, and setup for the win is usually all Magby needs to close out a good match up. Most other threats have to be played with skillful positioning, and there is almost always things a player on the defensive can do to mitigate the threat for a time and/or regain momentum, but Magby teams don't follow those rules, and will win when setup if there is no check.

Another common idea that I agree with to an extent is that it is screens, not Magby, that is broken or over centralizing. However, I think Magby is important enough and difficult enough to replace in its function in screens that it getting banned would nerf screens to being a lot less restrictive. Likewise, I think screens are important enough to Magby that Light Clay going would nerf Magby by allowing the tactic of "deny setup" to be actually considered doable for most teams. I do not think that keeping Magby legal so that clay gets the hammer is a good idea. we are 12 days from gen 8, so this could be our only chance to nerf cheese before tiering action gets slowed to a crawl. If you think Magby cheese is too centralizing, please vote ban.
 

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