Jangmo-o, Hakamo-o, Kommo-o Discussion

anyone can compare the hex values or something of shell smash and draco meteor/clanging scales? because is the only thing that could carry for needing to use a mental herb
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
Assuming Kommo does receive Shell Smash, it seems rather frightening. It has a lot of options to get past counters and checks, though it has really no way of getting past Clefable, or Cresselia, so stall is safe. 252 SpA Kommo-o Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Clefable: 158-188 (40.1 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery - sorry but that don't cut it. I believe the common Specially Defensive Mega Slowbro, and Assault Vest Tornadus are also counters (assuming no steath rocks), which are fairly standard sets. Hoopa can also deal with a +2 Kommo too, actually.

I believe this is Kommo's best set.

Kommo-o @ White Herb
Naive
252 SpA / 136 Spe / 120 Attack
- Shell Smash
- Changing Scales
- Focus Blast
- Poison Jab

While its true that Aegislash craps all over this (bless that sword and shield's heart), it gets past so many potential counters/checks its laughable. Firstly, forget Sky Uppercut, it's shit. It can't get past Mawile, Metagross, Magearna, Diancie, Ferrothorn, or Jirachi. Focus Blast 1 shots all of those losers. It can still 2 shot Chansey too. Of course its accuracy is absolutely garb-trash, but you're mostly relying on Changing Scales, so no worries, right? Poison Jab (almost) crushes Azumarill, and all of the other fairies that would otherwise wall this set.
 
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This poke like a ton of other alolan mons sounds like a solid idea that just doesn't have quite what it needs. Though, I feel like we go through this with ever new generation. New pokes are pretty okay to subpar and then the next games come out with tutors and new egg moves and suddenly subpar new mons become great. Even without Shell smash, assuming it doesn't get that legally in Sun/moon till a later game this dracoknight gets some nice stuff it'll be fun in UU while it stays there (because as far as how it looks right now that's where I assume it'll be). If GF, bless their weird move set making souls, give this thing better physical stab and shell smash, it will most likely join it's pseudo legend brothers in OU, until then UU gets another fun tanky dragon (Speaking of, may Goodra's assumed early gen 6 OU potential rest in pieces).
 

Codraroll

Cod Mod
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I think this article is relevant here. Game Freak has made a lot of errors of this kind in the past, even as recently as BW for in-game Pokémon and facility 'mons in BW2. And let's not forget the promo material of XY and ORAS.

I think this has to be a programming error, if real. I'll wait for independent confirmation before I even believe it.
 
Yeah, as much as I want to buy this (and believe me, I do), no real mechanics we've previously seen would allow a move to get past the dataminers just like that. In all likelihood it's a hack, programming error or plain old troll.

Or hey, in an unprecedented plot twist maybe GameFreak releases a day one patch that completely switches around everyone's stats and movepools. "Hahaha, you guys really thought we'd make everyone that slow? And the Lycanrocs suck so much? SYKE"

Also in the first town you get an event mon. It's a Porygon-Z nicknamed "FUKUMINERS"
 
Yeah, as much as I want to buy this (and believe me, I do), no real mechanics we've previously seen would allow a move to get past the dataminers just like that. In all likelihood it's a hack, programming error or plain old troll.

Or hey, in an unprecedented plot twist maybe GameFreak releases a day one patch that completely switches around everyone's stats and movepools. "Hahaha, you guys really thought we'd make everyone that slow? And the Lycanrocs suck so much? SYKE"

Also in the first town you get an event mon. It's a Porygon-Z nicknamed "FUKUMINERS"
As lovely as that would be you're giving gf too much credit.
 
I think this article is relevant here. Game Freak has made a lot of errors of this kind in the past, even as recently as BW for in-game Pokémon and facility 'mons in BW2. And let's not forget the promo material of XY and ORAS.

I think this has to be a programming error, if real. I'll wait for independent confirmation before I even believe it.
wow, there's a lot more of these than I had thought.
 

Sylveon.

Penny saved is still a fucking penny
Okay, this thing gets swords dance and no close combat; sounds fair. Also signature move is a special dragon type move(Fuck you gf).
So much potential wasted, so many people were excited for this thing but the best physical fighting STAB it gets is "Brick Break". Guess it'll be breaking bricks in UU or less due to that bulk.
Other dragons will enjoy it's signature move in STABmons though.
 
Okay, this thing gets swords dance and no close combat; sounds fair. Also signature move is a special dragon type move(Fuck you gf).
So much potential wasted, so many people were excited for this thing but the best physical fighting STAB it gets is "Brick Break". Guess it'll be breaking bricks in UU or less due to that bulk.
Other dragons will enjoy it's signature move in STABmons though.
The mixed attacking potential on a scarf, or assault vest is not something a lot of things can boast about tho. And a full bulky specs set is viable if it's UU it'll be good UU
 
The strength in this thing will be the unknown. The number of different sets that it can run (every boosting move known to man lmao, physical, special, mixed, bulky, Specs etc.) will be it's biggest asset, similar to Genesect (although that monster is straight busted). It has about half a dozen viable sets, and Fighting/Dragon is realistically way too good for this thing to be slept on. It's hard to say which sets emerge to be the best, and how effective those sets will be, but I believe you will understand it's true capabilities when playing against it, as opposed to playing with it. It is naturally understandable that you might not realize the effects of unpredictability while using it.

Also one thing that I haven't seen mentioned (although I haven't looked particularly hard), is that all of its abilities are useful. Not only that, but it is near impossible to know which one it is running without risking wasting a turn, which adds to its enigmatic nature. Does the opponent try to Hyper Voice it, risk it getting a DD and KO'ing with Poison Jab? Or risk wasting a turn trying to Spore/Sleep Powder it with your respective Grass/Poison switch-in?

It seems really interesting, and, like I said above, I believe a lot of it's power will come from the unknown, which is, understandably, difficult to quantify when using it.
 
The strength in this thing will be the unknown. The number of different sets that it can run (every boosting move known to man lmao, physical, special, mixed, bulky, Specs etc.) will be it's biggest asset, similar to Genesect (although that monster is straight busted). It has about half a dozen viable sets, and Fighting/Dragon is realistically way too good for this thing to be slept on. It's hard to say which sets emerge to be the best, and how effective those sets will be, but I believe you will understand it's true capabilities when playing against it, as opposed to playing with it. It is naturally understandable that you might not realize the effects of unpredictability while using it.

Also one thing that I haven't seen mentioned (although I haven't looked particularly hard), is that all of its abilities are useful. Not only that, but it is near impossible to know which one it is running without risking wasting a turn, which adds to its enigmatic nature. Does the opponent try to Hyper Voice it, risk it getting a DD and KO'ing with Poison Jab? Or risk wasting a turn trying to Spore/Sleep Powder it with your respective Grass/Poison switch-in?

It seems really interesting, and, like I said above, I believe a lot of it's power will come from the unknown, which is, understandably, difficult to quantify when using it.
Basically this. Moment this fucker gets move tutors, it's going straight up to OU.
 
Basically this. Moment this fucker gets move tutors, it's going straight up to OU.
I'm unsure if you mean that it will land in UU or BL, but I'll use your post to expand upon a point. I don't think there is any way this thing is allowed in UU based on the things I mentioned above. I think it has all the tools it needs to be at least banned into BL, if not OU by usage. Even if you were to ignore everything above, which I believe to be its biggest selling point, I think the Dragon/Fighting with a 600 BST is just way too good. I'm not a UU player, but I think this thing is being underrated. I could be dead wrong, but who knows :P
 
At first I thought Soundproof would be the standard ability to avoid getting demolished by Sylveon and M-Gardevoir's Hyper Voice, however it does need to invest 60 EVs into Defence to avoid the OHKO from Psyshock from Timid M-Garde, and a much larger investment (probably not worth it) to survive Modest M-Garde's Psyshock. Furthermore, at +1, it OHKOs Mega Gardevoir with Poison Jab anyways.

+1 196 Atk Kommo-o Poison Jab vs. 16 HP / 8 Def Mega Gardevoir: 312-368 (111 - 130.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 60 Def Kommo-o: 246-290 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If Sylveon ever became a relevant threat again, I could see it being useful, but with that in mind I would say either Overcoat or Bulletproof would be better for now. Overcoat notably stops Tangrowth and M-Venusaur from Sleep Powdering you and blocks Spore from Amoonguss and the odd Sash Breloom. Bulletproof lets you completely fuck over Gengar (as if Gengar wasn't getting fucked over hard enough already) but sadly does not block Moonblast. Given that users of bomb/ball moves that aren't Gengar (who is already outsped and KO'd at +1) are fairly sparse in OU, I would say Overcoat's utility trumps it.

With that being said, this is the set I'd probably use if I were to use Kommo-o. I'm not sure if it's going to be OU viable or not, it really depends on what the S/M metagame ends up looking like. At the very least he'll be a solid choice in UU, although I suspect Flygon may give him competition in that regard, as he offers an arguably even better STAB with a better defensive typing and Roost, at the cost of some bulk.

Kommo-o @ Lum Berry
Jolly - Soundproof
252 Speed, 196 Attack, 60 Defence
-Outrage / Dragon Claw
-Sky Uppercut
-Poison Jab
-Dragon Dance
I don't really think I need to explain this set much, we've all seen a Dragon Dance sweeper before. The classic Outrage vs Dragon Claw conundrum still applies here. I desperately wish he got a better Fighting STAB than Sky Uppercut but... He doesn't. Here's hoping for Drain Punch from a Tutor in the next games... Poison Jab covers most Fairies, what would otherwise be his number one weakess. He somehow didn't get Iron Head so Magearna and Diancie are still gonna be pains in the ass, but if you really wanted to cover those threats you could pack Earthquake somewhere.

Yeah, I don't think he'll be relevant over Dragonite, Gyarados, M-Charizard X, M-Altaria, or even Salamence, but assuming those threats all say in OU/BL, he has the potential to be one of the most solid Dragon Dancers in UU (assuming he stays in UU himself, which given all of his flaws, I think he will). If he gets some neat toys from future games such as a better Fighting STAB, he could potentially be useful even in OU, but sadly as it stands there's just not much reason to use him over other Dragon Dancers.

Regarding Shell Smash, if he ever does get it, then obviously that's a game changer and immediately makes him OU viable. A set with Shell Smash / Outrage / Focus Blast / Poison Jab could be devastating, or even a full special set of Shell Smash / Clanging Scales / Focus Blast / Flash Cannon.
 
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This thing is on the edge of being good but unfortunately its not quite there. The simple addition of close combat would of done wonders and its attack and defense stats should of been switched. Game Freak messed up their pseudo legend again (why am I not surprised). Having said that, if it acquires drain punch through move tutors then it could actually run a decent niche in sub/bellydrum + salac berry (provided they actually exist in sun/moon, not sure).
 
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RU at best. This thing is like Goodra. And I dont think it can keep up with the big boys from the OU tier. I also do not like that stat distribution on that Pokemon.
 
RU at best. This thing is like Goodra. And I dont think it can keep up with the big boys from the OU tier. I also do not like that stat distribution on that Pokemon.
Oh, I don't think so. The combination of Dragon Dance with perfect coverage, a special Automatize set also with perfect coverage and SubSalac Belly Drum will definitely keep it out of RU and probably UU as well imo. Tbh I don't think the lack of strong physical STAB or the fairy weakness will mean too much for it in the long run when it has those boosting moves.
 
There is no way this goes to RU, or even UU if you ask me. Too many sets with enough power and speed to use them effectively. You guys have fun trying to guess how this thing runs through a team.
 

Martin

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I can't wait to see what wonders the third ver/gen 4 remakes/sequel move tutors will do for this thing. Superpower'd be a good start. Maybe Gunk Shot too.

Anyway, it's bulk's pretty good and Bulletproof is p. neat, so maybe a set like this could work:

Kommo-o @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Dragon Tail
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

This thing's movepool is fucking awful though. Lots of setup moves and nothing strong enough to take advantage of them, and a p. compact-yet-well-crafted special movepool without a setup move to enhance them. It's super weird. I think this'll be p. decent too:

Kommo-o @ Choice Specs
Ability: Bulletproof / Overcoat
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clanging Scales
- Focus Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower

It'll probably end up in UU tho, and there Soundproof will probably be worth considering for Swellow.
 
I know everyone is just saying terrible things about this guy, but I still think it will be a decent mixed wall breaker. Not the best mind you, but good coverage with Life orb or Expert belt should allow Kommo-o to hit pretty decently.

Clanging scales - Very strong Dragon special move that doesn't lower your damage, but your defense. Might make it easier for people to revenge kill you but at least vs the right pokemon you aren't doing lower damage after 1 move unlike with Draco Meteor, and its only 20 BP less as well. I see little downside to this move.

Poison Jab - Strong counter to fairies.

Skyuppercut - 10 BP stronger then Brick break, though if you expect screen users it may be better to use brick break. It is a bit of a shame it doesn't get Close combat though, but these moves aren't useless.

OR

Focus Blast - powerful but can miss. If you want to hit as hard as possible with STAB though, this is what you need to use.

Flamethrower - If you went with Skyuppercut. Lets you hit the Ghost Sword family.

OR

Earthquake - If you went Focus Blast. Again lets you hit the Ghost sword family, though if you are running expert belt this would be the better move since you 24 more pokemon SE vs with flamethrower

OR

Work Up/Automize - You lose your ability to hurt the ghost swords, but you either set yourself up for more damage(plus 1 to a 110 attack AND a 100 SpA is nothing to sneeze at) or go much faster as a late game sweeper is nice.
 
I think Kommo-o is really being underestimated. Its stat distribution and movepool are a little disappointing but it still has a lot of viable sets, 3 useful abilities, and a good set of resistances. This makes it unpredictable and difficult for opponents to prepare for. It kinda reminds me of Mega Altaria in the sense that it's not overwhelmingly powerful but still very solid.

The Belly Drum set is probably my favorite. It can demolish slower teams on its own since it has just the right coverage moves for the job. Just eliminate Unaware walls and there isn't much stopping it from cleaning house against slower teams. Fighting + Dragon + Poison is only resisted by Aegislash.

Kommo-o @ Normalium-Z
Ability: Soundproof / Overcoat / Bulletproof
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Sky Uppercut / Brick Break
- Outrage
- Poison Jab

Thanks to Z-Belly Drum, it doesn't need to be careful with its HP. All 3 abilities are viable on this set but my preference is Soundproof since it blocks Roar and Parting Shot.
 
Where is all those shell smash with speculation coming from? Just wondering, because if it's true that could make this thing super deadly.
 

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