Jan/Feb 7* Event - Greninja (Poison Tera)

Since the others had a thread, might as well start one for January/February’s event.


Poison tera type is all we know so far. Based on past events it’s more than likely one of the HOME Pokémon.

Personally, I believe it’s Battle Bond Greninja. Poison covers its Fairy type weakness. Gunk Shot is fairly popular on Greninja too.

Any other guesses?

EDIT:

Confirmed to be Greninja with Lucario and Bronzong running alongside.

 
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Greninja seems like a safe bet, it’s super popular and poison sort of fits thematically since it’s a frog.

My only other guess is one of the PLA mons, since that weekend is the anniversary of its release. Dunno what would fit with poison though.
 
Greninja seems like a good guess but I'll throw out there: Hisuian Goodra

Less on a "benefit" type deal and more on a "flavor" type deal like Charizard. It's always found in swamps, goo=poison works...acid armor!
 
Almost guaranteed to be either Greninja or Battle Bond Greninja tbh.

Flavour wise, it's a ninja. And ninjas use poison.

Edit: also, it just dawned to me that poison is weak to Psychic and Ground, and both are hit supereffectively by Greninja's stabs, so I can 100% see this as the challenge picked.
 
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Greninja seems like a good guess but I'll throw out there: Hisuian Goodra

Less on a "benefit" type deal and more on a "flavor" type deal like Charizard. It's always found in swamps, goo=poison works...acid armor!
Goodra's too tall, the crown and platform wouldn't be visible if it was Goodra.
Also Hisuian Goodra wouldn't need the question mark space to be so wide, both Goodra's are very thin vertically.
Also also you'd be able to see parts of Goodra's antenna behind the crown and you can't.

But you can see something, and that something looks a lot like Greninja's ears.

I'd personally have guessed Swampert, but it's not in the game and the event is taking place before the 1.2 update.
 
What do you all mean it hasn’t been decided yet? It’s right there in the image! They’re finally being back Gen 3’s ??????????

1673586939707.png

Good to see this dude back. I’ve been terrified of him ever since middle school me fought one in the wild when his action replay was going absolutely wild.

(I’m thinking it’s Greninja too. Would be interesting if they do Battle Bond > Protean just because Battle Bond Greninja can’t breed in Gen 7 and we’d have Greninja with no Froakie or Frogadier lol)
 
Looks like Azumarill has lost its use during this 7 star although I'm sure at least a few people will try it just because it worked so well before. I'm with everyone saying it's Greninja, so likely we're dealing with at least water/dark/poison coverage with possible additional coverage of anything from ice to psychic to flying. If it's Battle Bond as well, we also have to worry about a boost if someone faints to it. This can be real tricky, but the lynchpin is what is the fourth move and what is it gonna buff itself with.
 
Looks like Azumarill has lost its use during this 7 star although I'm sure at least a few people will try it just because it worked so well before. I'm with everyone saying it's Greninja, so likely we're dealing with at least water/dark/poison coverage with possible additional coverage of anything from ice to psychic to flying. If it's Battle Bond as well, we also have to worry about a boost if someone faints to it. This can be real tricky, but the lynchpin is what is the fourth move and what is it gonna buff itself with.
Greninja surprisingly doesn't have much in the way to buff itself. Double Team (doubt it), Swords Dance (but it'll probably be a special attacker?), Trailblaze (more roundabout) and....well actually I guess that's it.
maybe they'll go with a debuff move instead. Icy Wind, Mud Shot, Chilling Water, Rock Tomb, etc.

Or just slap Rain Dance on it, boost whatever water moves it gets.

I wonder if Battle Bond would even activate up to 4 times or just the once. If it's just once it's pretty piddly all things considered.

Maybe Slowbro is the answer again, if it's Special. It has the dark weakness but it's still bulky and a few amnesias would probably shrug off Dark Pulse if it's special oriented.
 
If it indeed is Greninja, thinks which look interesting and/or ideas:
- :clodsire: Clodsire: can be immune to Water via Water Absorb, doubly resists Poison, is immune to poisoning, can boost with Curse, has STAB Earthquake, has great Special bulk, has Haze for enemy boosts. It is however weak to Ice.
- :quagsire: Quagsire: it too has Water Absorb, resists Poison, has STAB Earthquake with slightly higher Attack, can boost with Curse, has Haze and is not weak to Ice
- :gastrodon: Gastrodon: has Storm Drain, STAB Earthquake and Earth Power, Curse, Clear Smog, Stockpile, Yawn
- :toxicroak: Toxicroak: has Dry Skin, resists Dark, resists Poison, has Swords Dance for boosting but has no useful coverage AND has Earthquake.
- :tatsugiri: Tatsugiri: has Storm Drain, high Special Attack, Nasty Plot, doubly resists Water but has no useful coverage
- :slowbro: Slowbro / :slowking: Slowking: the Stored Power nuke could still work, with Amnesia over Iron Defense if Greninja is fully Special, but they are both weak to Dark
 
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Greninja surprisingly doesn't have much in the way to buff itself. Double Team (doubt it), Swords Dance (but it'll probably be a special attacker?), Trailblaze (more roundabout) and....well actually I guess that's it.
maybe they'll go with a debuff move instead. Icy Wind, Mud Shot, Chilling Water, Rock Tomb, etc.

Or just slap Rain Dance on it, boost whatever water moves it gets.
Toxic Spikes could be an interesting possibility. It would punish KOs very effectively, which could lead to snowballing.
 
1673827279839.png


It's greninja after all!

Official announcement: https://sv-news.pokemon.co.jp/en/page/26.html

No news yet if it's Torrent / Protean or Battle Bond.

Keep in mind that Battle Bond Greninja has a totally different Egg Group compared to normal Greninja; it's Undiscovered while Greninja is Water 1. If we get Battle Bond Greninja, we won't get Protean (or Froakie, or Frogadier). If we get Protean Greninja, we won't get Battle Bond. Also worth mentioning Battle Bond Greninja's abilities are all Battle Bond; using an Ability Patch on it won't work either.
 
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"During this event, you may encounter Bronzong and Lucario in 4-star and 5-star Tera Raid Battles. The Tera Types of these Bronzong and Lucario will vary, and if you catch them, they’ll make powerful teammates in the battle against Greninja with the Mightiest Mark! "
They're giving us a Fighting/Steel (with Justified potentially) and Psychic/Steel (with levitate, potentially)

Bronzong seems as miss as Gengar was, why would you ever use a pokemon weak against the boss stab?

Lucario seems a bit better but still it's a very frail mon so not something I'd want to bring.

That said, in this case I'm mostly expecting the 3 stabs + a setup move

Here's the first interesting bit: it may be Mixed. Greninja's signature move (Water Shuriken) is special, but the only actual poison attack it gets is Gunk Shot.
(Worth mentioning that if Tera Blast is picked instead of Gunk Shot and Greninja is fully special, then Blissey likely can eat everything it throws at her)

Going through its moveset, the only notable setup move it gets is Swords Dance, which would allow it to go full phisical in theory.
I do have a hunch however that the gimmick will be Double Team spam.

Depending on moveset, I think the main issue in this case will just be having something that can actually not die.
Poison is weak against Psychic and Ground, and the Greninja actual stabs hit both supereffectively, so you won't be able to just slowbro your way through most likely.

If Haze is the play (in case Double Team is the gimmick), Toxapex seems to qualify as the premiere option. Resists 2 attacks, can tank the neutral one, can easily both Haze or Clear Smog away potential buffs while being also immune to poisoning.
Water Absorb Gastrodon and Clodsire may also be serviceable (bonus, Gastrodon has Clear Smog, clod Has Yawn, Acid Spray, Haze, and both hit with supereffective stab while also having access to Mud Slap and Chilling Water)
Outside of these 2 however I struggle to see any pokemon who can hit with supereffective stab without being hit back supereffectively by one if the 3 "stabs".

I also don't quite see any reliable Stored Power spammer this time. At least, not stab ones.
Interesting but maybe memeworty options I can see:
Umbreon, Dudunsparce, Blissey (if it can tank Gunk Shot...), Klefki, and Flutter Mane.
Umbreon and Blissey don't really have a notable spatk so would need absolutely hilarious levels of buffs to produce a 1hko though, and Flutter Mane doesn't resist any of the attacks...
Assuming a 30x base HP like Cinderace...that'd mean 8550 HP, let's assume 6 Calm Minds...
+6 252 SpA Blissey Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Poison Greninja: 2080-2448 - Not even close, and takes up of 84% of gunk shot. However absolutely laughs at any special attack if it's tera blast instead
+6 252 SpA Flutter Mane Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Poison Greninja: 3082-3626 - Better but still not remotely close, similarly getsalmost oneshot by gunk shot but eats everything else ok
Umbreon can actually eat gunk shots almost for breakfast but hits for even less than Blissey

All in all, I don't quite see this as being another oneshot cheese. Will have to likely work out similarly to Charizard where one person or two keep up the party while the others wittle it down.

Notable: Water/Fighting resists all 3 attacks... but
If we actually had Poliwrath maybe Belly Drum stuff would have been possible, while Urshifu or Keldeo have a lot of raw power
Quaquaval doesn't exactly strike me as good for this sadly.

Edit: I just realized also Dry Skin Toxicroak resists all 3, but then again, still the problem of not exactly having any raw power. Gets EQ to hit supereffectively, I suppose, though non stab.

Edit n2:
+6 252 SpA Flutter Mane Stored Power (260 BP) vs. -6 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Poison Greninja: 12456-14656
I think I cracked it, if it's special only. Oneshots at +5 as well, or +4 with Psychic terrain.

If it's mixed however i legitimately can't find any pokemon that has Stored Power AND doesn't just drop to one of its attacks.
 
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I don't see them doing Double Team spam. Once you hit 2 stars, no raids use Double Team probably because even they realize that dealing with that in a time-limited format is Pretty Bad, Actually. Even accuracy lowering moves get pretty scarce.
 
Maybe this is stupid, but could Power Trip Corviknight work for taking on Greninja?

Corviknight | +SpD/-SpA | Mirror Armor (just in case of debuff move) | Covert Cloak (in case of Dark Pulse flinches)
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Bulk Up / Agility / Power Trip / Roost

+6/+6/+6 252 Atk Corviknight Power Trip (380 BP) vs. -6 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Poison Greninja: 7055-8301

This might not be enough to one-shot, I'm not sure how much HP Greninja's going to have, but Corviknight is bulky enough that the moves I expect Greninja to have (Water Shuriken, Dark Pulse/Night Slash, Gunk Shot) don't get above a 4HKO (assuming no EVs - am I wrong to assume this?), and I don't think it has any super-effective moves for Corviknight, so with the occasional Roost and/or Heal cheer the metal bird could probably survive long enough to reach +6/+6/+6.
 
Maybe this is stupid, but could Power Trip Corviknight work for taking on Greninja?

Corviknight | +SpD/-SpA | Mirror Armor (just in case of debuff move) | Covert Cloak (in case of Dark Pulse flinches)
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Bulk Up / Agility / Power Trip / Roost

+6/+6/+6 252 Atk Corviknight Power Trip (380 BP) vs. -6 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Poison Greninja: 7055-8301
10 turns of setting up (6 bulk ups, 3 agility, power cheer) seems far too much for this to work sadly, and it's probably more considering you have to either deal with potential Dark Pulse flinches or lack of recovery so having to also use Roost.
Will 100% get the shield up by then.
This can be alleviated by allies using Howl or Acupressure but feels like way too much setup necessary either ways.
I don't think we can rely on oneshot strategies without stabs sadly. Not reliably, at least.

It kinda worked with slowbro cause it already had massive bulk and you were Iron Defenseing up so eventually it started to tickle (plus the coverage that was being used wasn't stab so less damage)

I don't see them doing Double Team spam. Once you hit 2 stars, no raids use Double Team probably because even they realize that dealing with that in a time-limited format is Pretty Bad, Actually. Even accuracy lowering moves get pretty scarce.
I do however, since they did say that raids are meant to be a puzzle to be solved.
Having to resort to Haze also has the "interesting" (in good or bad) trait that you also deny your own team of setting up.

...does Haze even work through shields or is it a Taunt situation?
 
I do however, since they did say that raids are meant to be a puzzle to be solved.
I don't think they ever said that specifically. Based on the fights so far I think the expectation is just being a big boss and being able to form a decent team with the event raids, but they still seem to expect you to actually fight the bosses fully rather than going for coordinated OHKO setups. Since neither event mon really deals with debuff negation I doubt it will be intended like how Gengar had Clear Smog, unless they give Bronzong Gravity. Maybe Lucario could have Quick Guard to deal with Water Shuriken if that works for the party.
 
I will probably go for my physical defensive Umbreon during the first days of the raid, until people figured out what is best to bring to beat Greninja.
Greninja doesn't learn that strong bug, fairy or fighting moves, so as long as its not a Swords Dance Set Umbreon should be fine.
 

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At least Croak has both SD and Screech. EQ is no One Shot but you’re getting a lot of progress. Seems like it’s unavoidably gonna be a brawl.

Shell Bell
-SD
-Screech
-EQ
-Drain Punch

(It’s also annoying that Poison resists like every Draining attack)

Alternatively what do folks think of Acid Armor Calm Mind Stored power Vaporeon?
 
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I was wondering whether Tauros-Paldea-Water would be a good mon against Greninja (Poison Tera) (in theory):
1674010330743.png


Set 1: (Intimidate + Assault Vest/Choice Band)
Tauros-Paldea-Water (M) @ Choice Band / Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Raging Bull
- Bulldoze
- Earthquake
  • Intimidate is useful to weaken Greninja's Physical attacks. This is useful when Greninja could potentially run Acrobatics, Trailbaze, Aerial Ace, Bounce and Gunk Shot (powered up by Poison Tera).
  • Bull has supereffective moves from Zen Headbutt, Earthquake and Bulldoze (the latter to reduce Greninja's sped).
  • Choice Band can be used to increase it's physical prowress, whilst Assault Vest can be used to make it more specially bulky.
However, a big downside is that Tauros-Paldea-Water might not be able to take an Greninja's Acrobatics more than once. We have seen on how powerful Cinderace's Acrobatics can take down Azumarill in at least 2 shots. Greninja does have a lower attack stat, but it is still a threat that's posed to the Bull.


There is another Tauros-Paldea set I should mention, but it requires a support mon to make it work.

Set 2: (Choice Band + Anger Point)
Tauros-Paldea-Water (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Anger Point
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Raging Bull
- Bulldoze
- Earthquake

This set focuses on requiring the benefits of its hidden ability: Anger Point. The ability states that if the mon takes a critical hit, its attack is raised by +6 stages. Combining the stat increase with Choice Band, Paldea-Tauros can hit like a truck.

Unfortunately, the only moves that always result in a guaranteed critical hit are Frost Breath and Flower Trick. The latter move will deal supereffective damage to the water bull, so it might not be able to take any more attacks afterwards.
Therefore, the only critical move that Tauros can take is Frost Breath, which Tauros resists the move.

Of the mons that can use Frost Breath, I was thinking that Crygonal would be the best candidate. It has a high special defense to take on Greninja's special attacks, has Recover, and can use Reflect and Acid Armor to offset its low defense stat. A sample set can be as follows:

1674014131176.png


Cryogonal @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Frost Breath
- Recover
- Reflect

A major downside is that Cryogonal might not be able to provide offensive prowress to the team, considering its average special attack stat, and its weakness to Greninja's Brick Break and Low Sweep.

I think the first set might be better than the second set, because it doesn't require specific support to function to work, and that it can run Assault Vest to take special attacks better.

Let me know what you think. Can the frog be able to withstand the bull's horns?

Notable: Water/Fighting resists all 3 attacks... but
If we actually had Poliwrath maybe Belly Drum stuff would have been possible, while Urshifu or Keldeo have a lot of raw power
Quaquaval doesn't exactly strike me as good for this sadly.

If it's mixed however i legitimately can't find any pokemon that has Stored Power AND doesn't just drop to one of its attacks.
You mentioned that there are a lack of good Water-Fighting Types that can handle Greninja (Tera-Poison).
What about Tauros-Paldea-Water?
It has Intimidate to weaken Greninja's physical moves, has Zen Headbutt, Earthquake and Bulldoze for super effective coverage, and is decently bulky with an Assault Vest.
It can even run a gimmick set with Anger Point + Choice Band to deal insane damage.
More information is on Post #22
 
What about Tauros-Paldea-Water?
It has Intimidate to weaken Greninja's physical moves, has Zen Headbutt, Earthquake and Bulldoze for super effective coverage, and is decently bulky with an Assault Vest.
Good point, I completely forgot it exists, probably because i've got run over by Tauros packs so many times I refuse to aknowledge their existance :zonger:
Honestly may be actually worth keeping in mind as Intimidate + resist on top of actually solid stat may be the catch-all moment.

I doubt Anger Point is the play though, too unreliable and won't come remotely close to 1hko, and you'd have to run basically fodder toghether meaning the raid will just kill everyone else anyway.
Remember that even assuming you can setup a quick +6 at start, it's going to do almost nothing due to lack of stab and sinergy.
+6 252+ Atk Choice Band Tauros-Paldea-Water Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Poison Greninja: 1766-2078

That'll just trigger the shield, wipe the buffs, and then kill everyone else after it. You'd need 4-5 more hits to kill, I don't quite see that strat as working.
 
Good point, I completely forgot it exists, probably because i've got run over by Tauros packs so many times I refuse to aknowledge their existance :zonger:
Honestly may be actually worth keeping in mind as Intimidate + resist on top of actually solid stat may be the catch-all moment.

I doubt Anger Point is the play though, too unreliable and won't come remotely close to 1hko, and you'd have to run basically fodder toghether meaning the raid will just kill everyone else anyway.
Remember that even assuming you can setup a quick +6 at start, it's going to do almost nothing due to lack of stab and sinergy.
+6 252+ Atk Choice Band Tauros-Paldea-Water Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Poison Greninja: 1766-2078

That'll just trigger the shield, wipe the buffs, and then kill everyone else after it. You'd need 4-5 more hits to kill, I don't quite see that strat as working.
I admit the second set is more gimmicky, though I will admit I will be impressed if it works.

I have thought of another set (though this is even more gimmicky than the Anger Point Set), the bulky set:


Tauros-Paldea-Water (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Bulk Up
- Sleep Talk
- Earthquake

Basically Bulk Up to increase its attack and defence, Intimidate to decrease Greninja's Physical Attacks. Rest is used for recovery or to heal status conditions such as poison from Gunk Shot. Whilst other teammates can heal for you, this is assuming that you are playing the raid alone or that the allies aren't able to heal you.
Sleep Talk + Earthquake will make sure that you can deal at least decent damage.

Of course, this might be more unreliable than the other two sets because of how long it takes for Tauros-Water to set up and Greninja can remove your buffs.

Thank you for your feedback, Worldie.
 
how long it takes for Tauros-Water to set up
Honestly as is now, if you can't set up an actual oneshot, set up strats are unlikely to be worth it.

The main reason oneshot strats worked is because the bosses don't usually use the buff/debuff clear pulses until they start to get low on HP, so you were able to actually set up freely while they were at -6 attack.

If you're not able to set up a oneshot, they just don't work. We've all seen Cinderace raids go south super fast because the Slowbro didn't setup properly and got the boss to shield level, or someone else attacked and brought the boss to 70% hp then everything went horribly.

Ofc depends also a lot on what moveset Greninja will have, but unless it's fully special or fully phisical, for now I'd not bank on any setup strat to work and rather consider this to go like Charizard (aka, mainly hit it until it dies while someone debuffs / heals up)
 
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