Infernape

Neither, Infernape needs to be running max speed this gen to at least tie with Virizion, Terrakion, and Keldeo once it is released.
 
Why do people say the elemental punches are illegal with the Dream World's Iron Fist ability. I heard female pokemon has a 50% chance of passing their DW ability. The male pokemon can pass egg moves down. The offspring has to be the female Pokemon, so therefore, its possible to have those punches on the Iron Fist Infernape.
 
The Sinnoh Dream World starters are event Pokemon and exclusively male. There is no way to get a female Iron Fist Infernape.

Ninja'd.
 
If Salamence can run Roost why can't Infernape run Slack Off? Slack Off would be good this Gen because of the increased amount of Sandstorm and Infernape's ability to force switches would let him Slack Off easily. Surely it could since the moveslot that takes up Grass Knot is not as important this Gen with the lack of Hippowdon and Swampert. Grass Knot's only good target now is Jellicent, but I doubt Infernape would stay on him anyway because of the lack of Sp. Atk investment in MixApe. Would the utility of U-turn be equal to having more longevity with Slack Off?

Edit: This could be his moveset:
Overheat / Close Combat / Stone Edge / Slack Off with Life Orb
 
If Salamence can run Roost why can't Infernape run Slack Off? Slack Off would be good this Gen because of the increased amount of Sandstorm and Infernape's ability to force switches would let him Slack Off easily. Surely it could since the moveslot that takes up Grass Knot is not as important this Gen with the lack of Hippowdon and Swampert. Grass Knot's only good target now is Jellicent, but I doubt Infernape would stay on him anyway because of the lack of Sp. Atk investment in MixApe. Would the utility of U-turn be equal to having more longevity with Slack Off?

Edit: This could be his moveset:
Overheat / Close Combat / Stone Edge / Slack Off with Life Orb
This is due to a couple contributing factors.

1) Because Salamence has more bulk (95/80/80) than infernape (76/71/71). Although not by much, it is a lot when combined with intimidate and better typing.

2) Roost removes Salamence's flying typing which could allow him to live an unboosted Ice attack or Rock attack.
 
I think a proper comparaison would be Starmie. Both Starmie and Infernape are fast attackers that enjoy Life Orb and have fantastic coverage moves.

Standard Starmie set: Hydro Pump / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Recover

Starmie (65/85/85) isn't much bulkier than Infernape (76/71/71). Yet, it can fantastically use Recover to heal off from Life Orb recoil when forcing switches. Infernape could work like that as well.
 

lmitchell0012

Wi-Fi Blacklisted
If Salamence can run Roost why can't Infernape run Slack Off? Slack Off would be good this Gen because of the increased amount of Sandstorm and Infernape's ability to force switches would let him Slack Off easily. Surely it could since the moveslot that takes up Grass Knot is not as important this Gen with the lack of Hippowdon and Swampert. Grass Knot's only good target now is Jellicent, but I doubt Infernape would stay on him anyway because of the lack of Sp. Atk investment in MixApe. Would the utility of U-turn be equal to having more longevity with Slack Off?

Edit: This could be his moveset:
Overheat / Close Combat / Stone Edge / Slack Off with Life Orb
If you're confident that you can force a switch then by all means use it. Just know that it is EXTREMELY risky and infernape doesn't take hits from either side very well.
 
also, starmie has better:

defensive typing: although being a pursuit-trappable poke, it has useful resistances to fighting, steel, water, ice, and more.

utility: unlike infernape, ghosts will often switch in to take the expected rapid spin which gives you a free turn to recover

coverage: just between three moves tarmie achieves perfect coverage, meaning most pokes will switch out fearing the incoming SE attack.
 

BurningMan

fueled by beer
Infernape is a wallbreaker and running Slack Off takes away a move slot that should be used to get better SE coverage, because his 104/104 offenses are often not enough to get through bulkier Pokemon with neutral hits especially not when you need to split EVs.
Running Recover on offensive Starmie isn't that great either, because its Pursuit weak, and Rapid Spin is alot more useful unless you most of your team is immune, resistant to SR/Spikes and even then having both Hydro Pump and Surf can be more useful.
Salamence can use Roost, because it has far better defensive stats and a great defensive typing. Salamence also covers everything with Dragon Move+Fire Blast+EQ and you can actually drop EQ for DMeteor, because it only helps with Tran and SDef Jirachi.

To get back on Infernape i have use and SD set with CC,Flare Blitz and T-Punch as a partner for Lucario and its great, i also used ScarfTar as a partner to remove the Latis/Starmie/Gengar and they form a great offensive core. I also think that Infernape can use Expert Belt quite well to fake a choice item and reduce the passive damage.
 
also, starmie has better:

defensive typing: although being a pursuit-trappable poke, it has useful resistances to fighting, steel, water, ice, and more.

utility: unlike infernape, ghosts will often switch in to take the expected rapid spin which gives you a free turn to recover

coverage: just between three moves tarmie achieves perfect coverage, meaning most pokes will switch out fearing the incoming SE attack.
The Utility and defensive-typing aspect of Starmie is most definitly true. But, I think the one thing Infernape has over Starmie is that he forces out walls much easier than Starmie. For example he isn't walled by Trollthorn.

Fighting/Rock pretty much get perfect neutral coverage, just look at Terrakion, albeit Infernape doesn't get STAB on Stone Edge. With Fire-typed Overheat though, Infernape can out the most common resist of that combo: Toxicroak (rain puts a damper on it I know).
 
In my mind the most viable moveset in my mind for Infernape is:
Infernape@ Iron Fist
Evs: 252 atk 252 speed and 4 hp
Adamant@ Life Orb
U-turn
Mach Punch
Close Combat
Fire Punch
This set will take advantage of Infernape's Iron Fist ability and make it abuse it like a Scizor with Technician. U-turn is to take care of those pesky psychic types, but only if they're slow. Mach punch is the basic priorty STAB move what, with Iron Fist, can be used like a Technician Scizor's bullet punch. Close Combat is the STAB move that hurts every thing that is not resistant and has moderate defense for a hopeful OHKO. Fire Punch is to take advantage of Iron Fist and to be a STAB move and to possibly burn a physically attacking for, also to take care of scizor.
 
Infernape is a wallbreaker and running Slack Off takes away a move slot that should be used to get better SE coverage, because his 104/104 offenses are often not enough to get through bulkier Pokemon with neutral hits especially not when you need to split EVs.
Running Recover on offensive Starmie isn't that great either, because its Pursuit weak, and Rapid Spin is alot more useful unless you most of your team is immune, resistant to SR/Spikes and even then having both Hydro Pump and Surf can be more useful.
Salamence can use Roost, because it has far better defensive stats and a great defensive typing. Salamence also covers everything with Dragon Move+Fire Blast+EQ and you can actually drop EQ for DMeteor, because it only helps with Tran and SDef Jirachi.

To get back on Infernape i have use and SD set with CC,Flare Blitz and T-Punch as a partner for Lucario and its great, i also used ScarfTar as a partner to remove the Latis/Starmie/Gengar and they form a great offensive core. I also think that Infernape can use Expert Belt quite well to fake a choice item and reduce the passive damage.
The coverage that Infernape would lose if it runs Slack Off compared to if it didn't would only be Grass and Bug. I'm just basing this off the standard recommended MixApe. Mach Punch doesn't add coverage, U-turn isn't used for Wall-breaking (doesn't hit any walls I know super effectivly), and Grass Knot has really fallen out of favor this Gen. The only targets Grass Knot can really be used against is Jellicent and to a much lesser extent, Gastrodon. Gastrodon takes 39%-46% from Grass Knot, so I think Close Combat would deal more damage. Swampert and Hippowdon are essentially gone from the OU metagame, which were the reason Grass Knot was used last gen.

What you really lose on is the utility of U-turn and Mach Punch. As I said before, does losing that utility worth the recovery?
 
Excuse me, but a used to run an Infernape it's Choice Band, using Overheat, CC, Stone Edge and U-turn.

Stone Edge, aside from its infamous accuracy issues, served me well, and hit hard against the many things that CC just didn't hit well (generally anything bug-typed). Loved trashing Volcaronas as well from idiots who didn't think Infernape packed Stone Edge.
 
Slack off is actually a really interesting Idea, I don't see an issue with running close combat, stone edge and overheat as your three moves as they still dent just about everything and I think he is in the same boat as starmie and salamence as offensive pokemon that can recover.

In saying that, I've used salamence and starmie as offensive life orb versions and find that even though they do get a lot of opportunities to use the move as they cause massive amounts of switches, I'm often more then not, wanting to hit the switch with a move instead.
 

Taylor

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to get the most out of infernape i found leading with a focus sash varient, wielding stealth rock, close combat, flare blitz/blaze kick and swords dance.

sash ensures you can either sd or sr depending on the opponents' lead. fire and fighting is strong offensively and with access to stab on both its attacking moves, it poses a serious threat after swords dance.
 
I think a proper comparaison would be Starmie. Both Starmie and Infernape are fast attackers that enjoy Life Orb and have fantastic coverage moves.

Standard Starmie set: Hydro Pump / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Recover

Starmie (65/85/85) isn't much bulkier than Infernape (76/71/71). Yet, it can fantastically use Recover to heal off from Life Orb recoil when forcing switches. Infernape could work like that as well.
Starmie and Infernape are too frail to use recovery moves effectively, especially i you factor in other things such as LO recoil and the defences drop from Close Combat. Having a recovery move also reduces their much-praised coverage.
 
In my mind the most viable moveset in my mind for Infernape is:
Infernape@ Iron Fist
Evs: 252 atk 252 speed and 4 hp
Adamant@ Life Orb
U-turn
Mach Punch
Close Combat
Fire Punch
This set will take advantage of Infernape's Iron Fist ability and make it abuse it like a Scizor with Technician. U-turn is to take care of those pesky psychic types, but only if they're slow. Mach punch is the basic priorty STAB move what, with Iron Fist, can be used like a Technician Scizor's bullet punch. Close Combat is the STAB move that hurts every thing that is not resistant and has moderate defense for a hopeful OHKO. Fire Punch is to take advantage of Iron Fist and to be a STAB move and to possibly burn a physically attacking for, also to take care of scizor.
FlashFire Candle walls this big time. However with uturn or stone edge that problem goes away lol
 
Rsponse to un?lucky and Hydeous
Slack off is actually a really interesting Idea, I don't see an issue with running close combat, stone edge and overheat as your three moves as they still dent just about everything and I think he is in the same boat as starmie and salamence as offensive pokemon that can recover.

In saying that, I've used salamence and starmie as offensive life orb versions and find that even though they do get a lot of opportunities to use the move as they cause massive amounts of switches, I'm often more then not, wanting to hit the switch with a move instead.
It's definitely true that hitting the switch-in does is helpful, every little bit counts and it is an attack:p Starmie does the same thing, hitting the switch in with a Surf (ape's case would be Close Combat). Slack off

Hydeous said:
Quagsire and Gastrodon are all the rage though, especially in Rain.
In Gastrodon's case CC hits harder.

Gastrodon vs Grass Knot 39%-46%
Gatrodon vs Close Combat: 60%-71%

Quagsire definitely falls into the same catagory as Swampert and Hippowodon, but Quagsire is not "all the rage" like Gastrodon is. If Swampert isn't normally found, then Quagsire won't be found since it was below it in usage statistics


Psycho Cut said:
Starmie and Infernape are too frail to use recovery moves effectively, especially i you factor in other things such as LO recoil and the defences drop from Close Combat. Having a recovery move also reduces their much-praised coverage.
On the standad MixApe set, the "praised coverage" that Infernape loses when running slack off is Grass with Grass Know (u-turn isn't to hit walls).

I'm, just going to sum it up with this:
1. The Grass coverage with Grass Knot was "grandfathered in" from MixApe from last gen. Grass Knot was used specifically for Swampert, Hippowdon, and Suicune (lesser extent) last Gen. All of those threats? They aren't relevant to the OU metagame anymore, with Grass Knot only being relevant for Jellicent in Gen 5 metagame. Gastrodon takes way more from Close Combat than Grass Knot (GK=39%-46%, CC=60%-71%)
2. Fire-Fighting-Rock get perfect coverage.
3. Slack Off really helps with Infernape's longevity and dealing with residual damage. Sandstorm is more common than before, all hazards hit him, and Life Orb doesn't help either but is necessary. Slack Off (like Starmie) let's it deal with all that and attack for longer in the battle than it normally would. Also makes it a bit more viable to run on Sand teams.
4. Slack Off just competes with the utility of priority (mach punch) and switch initiative (U-turn) for the utility of longevity (slack off).
 
Eh, I'm still not a fan of Slack Off on Infernape. Despite Fire-Fighting-Rock being perfect coverage, the utility of U-Turn is actually much more than simply switching out. Starmie, Latios, Latias, etc, all love to switch into Infernape so it can really hit their lower defense. As for the NP mix set, Grass Knot was often slashed with HP Ice (Fire Blast roasts Hippo anyway, but don't forget that GK takes out Gyara and Slowbro), which is all the more important this gen with the likes of Dragonite running amok.

Another aspect to consider is speed. Infernape may be fast, but it still falls beneath the 110 speed group, meaning that restoring its health may end up being futile regardless, especially when you could have at least hit Gengar with Overheat or Latios with Close Combat. And unlike Salamence, whose plethora of resistances, superior defenses, and Intimidate grant it ample opportunities to set up, Infernape doesn't have as many golden opportunities, so you need to take advantage of them and fire off a strong attack while you can.

Finally, MixApe does not have room for Slack Off at all, because it absolutely requires the coverage provided from its moves. 104 offenses are good, but certainly not on par with those of Salamence. And unlike MixTar, whose attacks target pokemon cripplingly weak to a certain type, Infernape's movepool doesn't really offer that utility. That's not even considering that it needs to split its EVs.

To sum it up, Infernape simply doesn't have the typing necessary to effectively use the move, with other, lesser, reasons also being taken into consideration.
 

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