GSC PU Discussion Thread (Furret Banned)

BeeOrSomething

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GSC PU PUBD Team Dump

Week 1
- vs Vani (W)

:gs/venomoth: :gs/hitmontop: :gs/magcargo: :gs/gastly: :gs/sunflora: :gs/seadra:
Gastly FWG
https://pokepast.es/5259afc2dbaac6c7
So right out the gate having never played this tier before besides stealing a couple old LpZ teams to help out BloodAce in ALTPL, I tried to take what I learned from watching games in ALTPL to formulate my idea of what was good. Venomoth and Hitmontop, mainly HP Rock Top, were obviously immediate standouts. I didn't really have any other idea of what to use yet or how to even build. Dawn suggested Abra, and I said I would rather use Gastly, so I did. I then just kinda threw this team but with Noctowl together, but I figured I was Gastly weak so I swapped Noct for Magcargo. RestTalk Seadra for Murkow, HP Water Moth since it seemed pretty busted, and HP Electric on Cargo because Rock Slide didn't serve a purpose for me and it helped against Seadra. Gastly has Substitute to reduce prediction against Murkrow and take advantage of a sleeping Hitmontop and because I thought the other moves did very little. Honestly, I thought I used Magnet Gastly this week, but I guess I didn't. I never got to reveal Gastly or Magcargo this game since Seadra just mauled lol. Pretty basic team.

Week 2 - vs DiannieRatson (W)
:gs/elekid: :gs/venomoth: :gs/hitmontop: :gs/flaaffy: :gs/noctowl: :gs/sunflora:
Double Electric
https://pokepast.es/8ca9f978d3cff5f5
I wanted to toy around with double Electric since both Flaaffy and Elekid were doing really well in other games and in ALTPL. I figured Thief + Ice Punch would be best on Elekid to support Flaffy. I came up (and I believe was maybe the first user of? feel free to fact check) with the idea to use Reflect on Venomoth to help out against Hitmontop since it was an issue with two physically frail special attackers. From there, I threw on Noctowl for Venomoth and Sunflora for Rhyhorn and Seadra.

Week 3 - vs Estarossa (W)
:gs/venomoth: :gs/hitmontop: :gs/murkrow: :gs/seaking: :gs/sunflora: :gs/magcargo:
Ground Murk + Curse Cargo FWG
https://pokepast.es/b6df0e4d1ba4ac89
I knew Estarossa would be bringing Spikes so I wanted to use a team that could handle them. I decided I would use Murkrow because it was fast and a decent offensive threat against his frail teams that also didn't care about Spikes, and with HP Ground to smack Elekid. RestTalk Seaking also seemed excellent since he didn't really have much to handle it besides Rhyhorn who would be afraid of Surf and shut down by Sunflora. Seaking also helps immensely with Golbat and Venomoth. Sunflora went on for Seadra and Rhyhorn, and then I had to figure out how to deal with Noctowl. I figured I would use Rhyhorn, but then Soup convinced me Rhyhorn was in fact not very good and didn't do anything Cargo couldn't do, so I just threw on Magcargo and gave it Curse (yes without Sleep Talk because it needs a Fire move and it needs Rock Slide to damage Noct with Curse). Magcargo kinda didn't do anything because it got nuked by HP Ground Bat but Seaking claimed.

Week 4 - vs BloodAce (L)
:gs/hitmontop: :gs/machoke: :gs/sunflora: :gs/venomoth: :gs/murkrow: :gs/noctowl:
Double Fighter + Curse Pass Moth
https://pokepast.es/309b0d810f9ae49e
Since this was the week immediately following the DON'T incident (see below), I wanted to use Machoke. I figured the Curse Rock Slide set would be best since I had Hitmontop as my RestTalk fighter, and then I used Light Screen last because Earthquake seemed piss, Body Slam didn't do very much, and it would help against special attackers and hopefully mimic the success of Curse LS Stantler in NU. I wanted to use Curse Pass on Venomoth since it had amazing synergy with both fighters. I threw on Murkrow next since Gastly was a serious issue, especially since I was using Noctowl to handle Venomoth because Magcargo gets folded by Hitmontop and HP Water Moth. Sunflora went on last pretty obligatorily for Rhyhorn and Seadra.

Week 5 - vs Corvere (W)
:gs/elekid: :gs/hitmontop: :gs/venomoth: :gs/seadra: :gs/seaking: :gs/clefairy:
RestTalk Elekid Double Water + Clefairy
https://pokepast.es/42e38ac2e05707f6
I wanted to use double water since both Seadra and Seaking are quite amazing and they could be more amazing together. RestTalk Elekid went on since I would be struggling bad against Electrics. Originally, I had RestTalk Seadra and Surf Protect Seaking, and I couldn't figure out a decent last, so I asked BloodAce for help. HP Fire Sunflora, HP Electric Seadra, Seaking, and Noctowl were all serious issues. I made Seadra Ice Beam + Haze for Noctowl and Seaking, Seaking RestTalk for Venomoth and to just be much more useful overall, and threw on Clefairy last to answer Sunflora and Seadra and spread paralysis.

Semifinals - vs Corvere (W)
:gs/elekid: :gs/hitmontop: :gs/venomoth: :gs/seadra: :gs/noctowl: :gs/sunflora:
RestTalk Elekid + Noctowl + Seadra
https://pokepast.es/2cea19790753d26b
Since Seadra absolutely folded Corvere in week 5 to the point where I didn't even get to reveal Seaking or Clefairy, I figured I would use it again. I had considered using RestTalk Elekid and Delibird, but I couldn't find a good last, so I took my team from week 5 and swapped out the last two mons. Noctowl went on since I needed a Venomoth check. Sunflora went on last since I sucked hard into Rhyhorn.

Semifinals Tiebreaks - vs LpZ (W)
:gs/seadra: :gs/hitmontop: :gs/venomoth: :gs/gastly: :gs/drowzee: :gs/sunflora:
Gastly + Psychic Drowzee + Curse Pass Moth - Lead Seadra ver.
https://pokepast.es/60c8f1c6e1c853be
Since I never actually revealed Gastly in the game I brought it and I knew Seaking was super deadly, I decided to run back Gastly, this time with Magnet. I also considered using Cubone but decided not to since really the only satisfying team I could come up with was a team LpZ made himself which I didn't really want to choose. Psychic Drowzee seemed like a really good idea since it generally seemed amazing for shutting down Hitmontop and paralyzing stuff and I knew Murkrow was not a very appealing choice into my scout. Using Drowzee also let me use a non-Reflect Moth much more forgivingly, so I went with Curse Pass to create big holes with a boosted Hitmontop. Sunflora went on for Rhyhorn and Seadra as usual, and then I went with Seadra last because it's just really strong and I did need something to switch into Murkrow. Originally I had Hitmontop lead but Cubone was really good into my scout (despite the high amount of Sunfloras) and I felt I could handle Elekid fine with Sunflora and Drowzee, so I put Seadra in the lead to force Cubone out right away.

Finals - vs BloodAce (W)
:gs/hitmontop: :gs/venomoth: :gs/seaking: :gs/sunflora: :gs/rhyhorn: :gs/drowzee:
RestTalk Seaking + Rhyhorn + Psychic Drowzee
https://pokepast.es/a534ae458cf25b36
So I was sick as hell during this week, so I just wanted to use something simple. RestTalk Seaking spoke out to me since BloodAce had extremely low Normal resist usage and it's just good defensively. Over the course of two showers where the voices were speaking out to me, I had pretty much settled on using Sunflora for its synergy with Seaking and Rhyhorn because I hadn't picked it before and Noctowl, Seaking, and Clefairy are nuisances. Drowzee went on last since nothing else seemed better as a Venomoth check (Noctowl is redundant with Seaking and layers weaknesses) and it shuts down Hitmontop, threatens Sunflora, and spreads paralysis for Seaking and Rhyhorn. Venomoth's 4th move was between Giga Drain for Seadra and potentially luring Rhyhorn and Sleep Powder for non-RestTalk Seaking, and I chose Sleep Powder since Seaking with a coverage move for Rhyhorn destroyed me.

Some Thoughts

First of all, I'd just like to thank gum and sensei axew and all the other sandacondas, I had a lot of fun sneaking with you guys. Would also like to thank dawnbuster and BloodAce for helping me throughout the season, DiannieRatson for helping me once or twice, and MrSoup for inspiring me to use Machoke and the DON'T meme.

Ok now actually about GSC PU.

I think building is super constricting. There are a lot of really demanding threats that you need to account for and ignoring any of them is quite disastrous, forcing somewhat homogenous building imo. I even made a whole list that I kept referring to throughout the tour just to keep track of everything I needed to handle.
1712519308170.png
I didn't really like building a lot of the time during the tournament because there were so many boxes I needed to fill and I didn't want to use a suboptimal team for both my own personal reasons and because I was playing for the rest of the team, so I mostly resorted to pretty standard structures.

This leads into my next point - I don't think Spikes are super worth using most of the time. Honestly, I never once even actually ATTEMPTED to build with Spikes because it looked so painful, though I did consider trying Delibird out a couple times. I know some players (namely Estarossa) think Spikes are good or even mandatory, but I just can't be convinced really. I'm sure they're perfectly fine but currently I can't envision them actually being consistently good when building is already so difficult with six useful Pokemon and using Spikes reduces that number down to five, resulting in a lot of severely flawed teams. I'm sure I definitely showed this myself considering I went 7-1 without a single use of Spikes. I'll probably try them out at some later point, perhaps in GSC Slam, but saying they're even close to mandatory is completely wild imo.

Venomoth is obnoxiously good. It's easily number 2 at minimum and possibly 1. It's really fast, incredibly strong, Stun Spore is a phenomenal move, it has amazing defensive qualities, and on top of that, it has an ENTIRE FILLER MOVESLOT that you can use for basically anything like Reflect, Hidden Power Water, Giga Drain, Sleep Powder, Thief, Protect, or other. Curse Pass is also incredible, and there's some solid potential in sets like RestTalk. You can even drop Stun Spore for a coverage move if you want. Venomoth is just extremely unpredictable, such an immensely demanding presence in the builder, and you have to be extraordinarily cautious in battle to make sure your check to it stays intact. Teams without a Venomoth check are frankly quite awful, and the list of Venomoth checks is quite small, reduced even further by coverage moves, its status options, and Curse Pass.

Sunflora is quite peculiar. On one hand, it's complete dogshit. At the same time, it works so nicely on so many teams and fulfills such a specific and useful defensive niche. Sunflora is weak to Hitmontop, really weak to Venomoth, hates status, and can't check Seaking. It also usually lets Delibird in freely, can't touch Magcargo, and has awful 4mss when it comes to choosing its Hidden Power type. However, Sunflora is most likely the best Seadra check available, is the best Rhyhorn and Cubone check available (besides Tangela who is pretty bad), and is a great check to Elekid, Flaaffy, and Gastly. It's a very weird Pokemon and probably shouldn't be so good but these defensive benefits are in high demand so Sunflora finds its way onto a lot of teams. As for the coverage moves, I think HP Fire ~ HP Ice > HP Rock, but all 3 are useful in their own way. Just depends on what team you're using it on.

Seadra is really really good. I wouldn't say it's banworthy, but it's definitely amazing, Hydro Pump is far and away its best tool, I'm honestly not sure Surf is even worth using since it doesn't 3HKO Hitmontop. 3 attacks + Haze is probably the consistently best set, providing great help against Seaking and Noctowl and hitting everything. Protect could also be a neat option. I'm not much of a fan of Rain Dance, Seadra doesn't really need the power, just click Hydro Pump, and it's kind of a waste of a moveslot and a turn. HP Electric RestTalk is probably the next best set, helping against Venomoth and even Hitmontop, though it's stuffed by Noctowl and Sunflora. I'm pretty confident Ice Beam RestTalk is the worst set, but it's definitely not bad considering opposing Seadra still takes like 40 from Hydro Pump. It's just liable to screw you end game and isn't great against RestTalk Electric Seadra.

Seaking is amazing I probably have it in my top 5. It's so demanding and RestTalk is phenomenal defensively too. It can always just show up and blast you with something like Surf, HP Ground, Protect, Agility, or Mint Berry + Rest too.

Magcargo is kind of sad. It has some really nice traits when it comes to Venomoth and Sunflora but it's such a bad liability against Hitmontop, Seadra, and Seaking, and it can't even beat Noctowl unless you make it strictly worse by fitting something like Curse or Acid Armor. Venomoth can also just like blast you with HP Water lol.

Quick spew, RestTalk Elekid is great but slightly overhyped, Flaaffy is mid because it's too slow and RestTalk Elekid exists, Murkrow is both not that bad and not that good so it's very like slightly above average, and Gastly is underused.

Despite my issues with building I do still find the tier fun and interesting.

That's all, peace.
 

Siatam

is a Tutoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
RoA Leader
The weasel most foul
:gs/furret:

Ever since Hitmonchan's departure from the tier in 2021, a certain ferret emerged as broken in PU. PU saw little tournament play in 2022, but upon its return in 2023 Furret was banned in all tournaments. Now in 2024 with a multiple Furret-less tournaments run and PU Open II on the horizon it is a good time to formalize Furret's ban.

The voter list used for this survey was:
Top 2 from the GSC PU - Furret tour
Top 2 from the PU Open 1
1 win in ALTPL
1 win in PUBD
BeeOrSomething : Ban
Estarossa : Ban
BloodAce : Ban
LpZ : Ban
dawnbuster : Ban
vani : Ban
DiannieRatson : Ban
MrSoup : Do Not Ban
Aurist : Ban
SANKE CARP : Ban
Amaranth : Abstain

With overwhelming support to ban, Furret is now officially banned from GSC PU.

In my mind GSC PU is now established and out of it's awkward alpha/beta phase. Any future tier action will be taken through the usual means of a Policy Review thread and Blind Voting. The next order of business is to update GSC PU's resources, VR, and analyses. I welcome anyone who would like to contribute to the future growth of the tier.
 

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