Other Tiers GSC Little Cup [Stadium 2]

Kind of dead thread, but i've been interested in this for a while now. After playing a couple of games, I think i'm able to contribute to discussion.

As for the question, I would have to say no. Houndour is far from broken in my eyes. It has a bunch of checks, which are but not limited to Staryu, Tentacool, Porygon, Chansey and Diglett. Whilst Houndour certainly is a high-level threat, I don't think he warrants a ban.

Also, if we're using Natural Talent's viability rankings as a basis, i'm not exactly sure why Swinub is so low. To be honest, it's probably one of the better Ice-types in the tier, next to Smoochum. I would have to argue that he should be C at the very least, but eh. We may need some discussion on this?
 
I'm certainly interested in trying this metagame out. I think the maxed evs everywhere thanks to Gen 2's mechanics will provide quite a different experience to the really fast-paced LC metagame of today.

EDIT: The speed tiers are way off as they don't account for EVs / the GSC equivalent. Elekid, Voltorb and Diglett for example reach 19 speed.
 
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Present needs to be added to the GSC LC banlist.

Togepi (Lvl 5) Present (40 BP) vs. Onix (Lvl 5): 16-19 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2ou-992472751

Due to Present's bugged calculation for damage in GSC, STAB Present inflicts extraordinary damage at low levels to any Pokemon, including Normal-resists as seen by what happens to Onix. Present can also be 80 BP or 120 BP, which is guaranteed to KO anything in LC. Togepi can also learn Foresight, which prevents even Gastly from walling it (assuming the Present user doesn't simply use a super-effective attack for Gastly)

tl;dr Present is as broken as Dragon Rage in GSC LC and should be officially banned.
 
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I agree with the Present ban. By the way, why hasn't Chansey being banned? Curse Chansey with Leftovers or Lucky Punch is overpowered, I've played MANY Little Cup Ubers matches and my friends and I agree that Chansey is in the same league as Scyther (I have replays of those matches in the following link, just scroll down to the Replays part of the thread: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...e-cup-and-ubers-resources-discussion.3634609/).
 
Sorry for writing a second post, here are two replays, the first is from Little Cup and the second is from Little Cup Ubers, one of the players spammed Present in both matches. By the way, we used Item Clause in the fights:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2ou-1001007419-2isabn660uy8rr6vrc87nivam6ghoztpw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2ou-1001011215-6ful2nw4pyrik7z9i9z09ck2j6loy22pw

Hope these replays help you to assess if Present should be banned in Little Cup and Little Cup Ubers.
 
Yoo guys, it has been 5 months since I've met this tier. I've played over 50 games in the meta and had a lot of fun! Since the playerbase is super dry, I would like to make some posts here exploring the tier to see if I can find more people to play ~n_n~. We have been playing on RoA tour night metagame, which means both Chansey and Gold Berry are banned! I've made a spreadsheet with the techinical support of our boy Earthworm and it looks so cute ~n_n~. Check it out!

Btw, thanks to Marowhacked and Beelzemon 2003, which are both teambuilding geniuses and great players. Marowhacked helped me organize the ranks and write this post. Beelzemon 2003 showed me many super underated mons that can actually perform great at the meta. The man can make a decent team with 95% of the pokemon available, he never underestimates the possibilities! He has been playing the meta for more than 20 years now! Well, actually LC Ubers Iteam Clause, the first and original Little Cup. It would be super nice to hear some histories about these metas through the years, if you have the disposition to write, chum. Anyways, let's get to the fun! Today, I'll be talking about the 5 mons that shape this meta!


The Ground Metagame

STAB Earthquake is very important in this meta. From the pokemons we consider competitively viable in the moment, only 5 have ground immunity/resist: Pineco, Doduo, Exeggcute, Paras and Chikorita. Electric immunity is also important, as Electric types are top threats and TW is a very common move. On the ground types realm, these 2 mons stand out as the Fastest and the Strongest ground types, which probably makes them the most influential mons in the meta:


[#1] - Diglett sits at the 1st speed tier and has the important quality of countering (with Berry Juice intact) the other 2 mons it speed ties with: Elekid and Voltorb. Combined with precious STAB earthquake, all the coverage options it needs and access to Thief, I would say Diglett is the best revenge killer/late game cleanner and the best pokemon in the tier right now.


[#4] - Thanks to Thick Club, Cubone hits 21 atk, the highest in the tier. This huge attack, paired with STAB earthquake, 1HKOes the majority of the metagame w/o resist. Rock slide 1HKOes Doduo/Paras and HP Bug 1HKOes Eggie. Combine this with it's incredible physical bulk (4th in the tier) + access to Thief, and you have a top tier threat. In fact, Cubone is a great Diglett check. Low speed (13) and a weaknesses to a variety of special types keeps Cubone at bay.

The Fast Electrics


[#2] - Elekid doesn't really have a lot of interactions with the rest of the meta. It's so good because it has speed, sp atk, thief and really good coverage. Not a lot of electric weakness in the top tier, but also nothing that truly can stop it long-term.


[#8] - Weaker, less durable and with less coverage options than Elekid. But Voltorb gets access to Explosion, and usually runs TW for lack of good offensive options. That makes it more support oriented, Hyper Offense oriented and notably better than Elekid in the Electric heads up!

The Hound


[#3] It's unique typing allows Houndour to perform important defensive and offensive roles, with Psychic immunity and Fire/Dark STABs which combined aren't resisted for anything (except Dour itself). Dour is also incredible versatile. I've divided it's functions in the meta into 3 main roles:
-> Pursuit - Dour is incredible at weakening/removing checks for the ground and electrics listed above. Weakening the grass types helps both types. Weakening Drowzee, which is the most special bulky mon in the tier, helps the electrics, aswell as other fast sp sweepers like Staryu and Abra. And, of course, removing the Psychics makes Curse Machop very very dangerous.
-> Sun Sweeper - SunnyBeam laughs at water types like Staryu and Poliwag, that would normally counter the other sets. And, for anything that doesn't resist it, good luck trying to tank Fire Blasts from this beast under the sun.
-> Pivot/Sponge - Dour can run Thief for longevity, and it can actually switch-in a lot due to it's unique typing. You can also run HP coverage or Sludge Bomb to check/counter other Dours!


Diglett @ Berry Juice
Ability: none
Level: 5
IVs: 26 Atk / 26 Def
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Bug] / Substitute
- Thief

Cubone @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
Level: 5
IVs: 26 Atk / 26 Def
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Thief / Substitute

Elekid @ Berry Juice
Ability: none
Level: 5
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch
- Cross Chop
- Thief

Voltorb @ Berry Juice
Ability: none
Level: 5
IVs: 26 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder Wave
- Explosion

Houndour @ Berry Juice
Ability: none
Level: 5
IVs: 6 HP / 28 Atk / 28 Def
- Fire Blast
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Houndour @ Berry Juice
Ability: None
Level: 5
- Fire Blast
- Crunch
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam
 
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Paras Para SubThief


Paras @ Berry Juice
Ability: none
Level: 5
IVs: 26 Atk / 26 Def
- Spore
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Giga Drain
- Thief

Staryu @ Berry Juice
Ability: none
Level: 5
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave

Porygon @ Berry Juice
Ability: none
Level: 5
Happiness: 0
- Frustration
- Curse
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave

Elekid @ Berry Juice
Ability: none
Level: 5
- Thunder
- Ice Punch
- Cross Chop
- Thief

Abra @ Berry Juice
Ability: none
Level: 5
IVs: 14 HP / 28 Atk / 26 Def
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Substitute
- Thief

Diglett (M) @ Berry Juice
Ability: none
Level: 5
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Substitute
- Thief


This team is built around the idea of abusing Thief with para spam.
  • Diglett was already the main mon in the tier in my eyes and also the sample teams only had some of the ways of stopping it, sample 1 in particular is very weak to it. So it was kinda intutive the subthief set would have a very good performance with para support.
  • Pory Staryu was a very standard para spreading combo for me at that point. Pory is an execellent special tank and Staryu checks or revenges all physicall threats well. Curse Pory because we have para spread and enough thiefers on the team.
  • Abra is the 2nd SubThiefer, abusing para support quite well. It can make 7 subs if max health, which means paralyzed opposing mons will have a ~8% chance of moving all 7 turns. It goes without saying that it can steal the opponent's berry juice and have more turns. HP Water super gimmicky here, because I have a good setup to beat Houndour between Thiefing, status and decent damage moves between Paras and Abra.
  • Paras - I first saw Beelzemon using it and quickly understood how good it is. Paras serves as a great anti lead, and specially good against sample teams' leads. After sporing something it's main function is to stop Diglett from spamming quake, checking it quite effectively with the help of PoryStar. Para support also helps Paras do some damage with Thief and decent STAB Bug.
  • Elekid - Doduo and Staryu give a bit of trouble. Elekid over Voltorb because I rather have durability here and I'm already well protected againts the Electrics.

Threats
  • Weak to Cubone (Boonemerang + Thief especially).
  • Pineco is hard to deal without Fire/Rock STAB and without boom absorber. But at that point it's usage was very low.
  • Teams which carry a lot of mons without a item (Beelzemon even had a itemless team) or with a specific item (Chesto Rest Porygon or Slowpoke come to mind).



Edit - As you can see in the 2nd replay, in the first version of the team I had Eggie over Paras. Paras' advantages as a lead here are: 1 - having a easy switch-out vs Houndour, 2 - having 100% accuracy sleep and typing (Eggie can miss Sleep Power and is 1hkoed by Pineco).

Beelzemon 2003 Marowhacked Eo Ut Mortus
 
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Has anyone considered Rain Dance Magnemite?
When rain is set up. Houndou's r Fire Blast is a 2HKO but itself has a 51% Chance to OHKO with Hidden Power (Water).
Same with Cubone 51%chance to OHKO. Diglett can't switch into it in the rain. And without rain in risks 90% of it's HP. Guaranteed hit Thunder is also nice with the ground types scared to switch in.
I see Magnemite way higher that the tier list on page 3 would suggest.
But I'm open for discussion
 
My chum AidedFurball and I played Little Cup with Pokémon Stadium 2 rules, it is a fun format. Here are some replays:

Match 1
Match 2
Match 3
Match 4
Match 5
Match 6

We learnt that Psyduck is good against many threats of the format (including Chansey) and than Pidgey hits hard and can help to defeat Scyther.

Psyduck's best moves are Surf, Ice Beam, Cross Chop and Psychic; on the other hand, Pidgey is good with Double-Edge, Wing Attack, Steel Wing and Quick Attack (for Reversal Scyther).
 
Until now, many Poison Types were unranked in any Little Cup Tier List; however, it turns out that some of them are good as you can see below:

:ekans: Ekans Replay
:koffing: Koffing Replay
:grimer: Grimer Replay

However, Venonat seems to be bad:

:venonat: Venonat Replay 1
:venonat: Venonat Replay 2

I put Ekans, Koffing and Grimer in the Middle Tier and Venonat in the Low Tier of my Tier List. Do you agree with their placements chums? What about the other unranked Poison Types like Bellsprout and Oddish? Please feel free to share your thoughts below.
 
Little Cup Underrated Pokémon

My good chum Stealth Croc and I used some underrated mons yesterday, here are the replays:

Sunkern 1
Sunkern 2
Sentret 1
Sentret 2
Kabuto, Ledyba and Slugma

Sandshrew

I also used Tyrogue, but, for unknown reasons, the replays weren't saved :/

Now, here are my thoughts on the Pokémon we used:

:sunkern: Sunkern: It's bad. Has the lowest total sum of max stats of the generation, few good moves and, for unknown reasons, it doesn't learn Razor Leaf, Stun Spore, Sleep Powder nor Leech Seeds. Its good moves are Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, Return, Hidden Power and Synthesis.

:tyrogue: Tyogue: At level 100 his stats are 10 points higher than Sunkern (273 HP and 168 on everything else), which is still bad, even for Little Cup standards. He is slow, gets hit hard by everything and also has a small movepool; however, his combination of High Jump Kick and Mach Punch allow him to win the majority of battles against the Normal, Rock and Steel Pokémon of the format. Most of those Pokémon can't kill Tyrogue even with their strongest moves and don't survive the High Jump Kick + Mach Punch combo, even if both moves connect with their lowest rolls. Some mons can Explode against Tyrogue, but that is a win for him on one vs one bouts (also, I'd prefer a Geodude to Explode against my Tyrogue than against my Chansey). Tyrogue's best moves are High Jump Kick, Mach Punch, Hidden Power, Rapid Spin, Strength, Return and Thief. Tyrogue is a bad Pokémon, but is not as bad as many would think.

:sentret: Sentret: Has good moves, but is the slowest Pokémon of the format along with Slowpoke which limit its usefulness. Quick Attack stops Reversal Scyther and Flail Doduo, though. Sentret's best moves are: Double Edge, Return, Slash, Surf, Shadow Ball, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Thief and Quick Attack.

:ledyba: Ledyba: Offensive Ledyba is better than support Ledyba in my opinion because it has a good variety of attacks: Hidden Power Bug, Hidden Power Flying, Double-Edge, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Pysbeam, Giga Drain and Thief. Ledyba is a Low Tier Pokémon, but it can take off guard players that are not prepared against it.

:sandshrew: Sansdhrew: A good Pokémon, its only "flaw" is that there are better Ground Pokémon in the format like Cubone, Onix and Rhyhorn. Its Speed and Special Defense are also low. With Paralysis support it can shine since it has Swords Dance, Earthquake and Rock Slide (the latter move always kills Scyther if it doesn't miss).

:kabuto: Kabuto: One of the few Pokémon that kill Scyther 100% of the time (unless the bug has Hidden Power Grass or Endure+Reversal). Ancient Power and Hidden Power Rock always KO Scyther. The problem is that, for unknown reasons, Kabuto no longer learns Surf in Gen II, so if you want it to have that move on Little Cup you have to erase Ancient Power, trade it back to Gen I, teach it Surf and, finally, return it to Gen II. The Move relearner from Gen II doesn't work for Egg Moves, so once you erase Ancient Power, Kabuto loses the move forever at level 5. Surf is needed to One Hit KO Cubone, because Bubblebeam never kills aside from crits and Hidden Power Water doesn't kill on low rolls. You have to decide if Kabuto will have Ancient Power + Bubblebeam/Hidden Power Water or Hidden Power Rock + Surf. Aside from that flaw, Kabuto has good Speed and moves, the ones I haven't mentioned are: Ice Beam, Return, Body Slam, Giga Drain, Icy Wind, Thief, Endure, Flail, Rapid Spin and Reflect. Kabuto is definitely a Middle Tier if not Mid High.

:slugma: Slugma: It didn't have a chance to do anything in our battles, but I guess it is bad due to its low Speed. It also has few good moves: Flamethrower, Rock Slide and Acid Armor. We need to test this mon more.

So what do you think of these mons chums? Which underrated mon would you like us to test next time? There are many to choose from! Seel, Shellder, Goldeen, Horsea, Hoothoot, Spearow, etc. Also, click here to see my updated tier list of the format.
 
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corvere

and beneath the mist, i saw my true reflection
is a Contributor to Smogon
hello! i started playing this tier around a month ago now through random challenges in the ruins of alph room, so i thought i could revive this thread a little. here are the teams that ive built as of now; theyre far from perfect, but its what i came up with by my own:

:gs/exeggcute: :gs/abra: :gs/staryu: :gs/elekid: :gs/houndour: :gs/pineco: exeggcute offense

:gs/paras: :gs/porygon: :gs/staryu: :gs/diglett: :gs/chinchou: :gs/elekid: paras antilead 1

:gs/paras: :gs/cubone: :gs/staryu: :gs/porygon: :gs/abra: :gs/diglett: paras paraspam with cubone

i dont have much else to say as im still rather new to the format, im just hoping that my post can bring a little bit of light to gsc lc as i think its a very fresh and nice experience one can have in gen2. have a nice day.
 
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hello! i started playing this tier around a month ago now through random challenges in the ruins of alph room, so i thought i could revive this thread a little. here are the teams that ive built as of now; theyre far from perfect, but its what i came up with by my own:
Excellent teams! I liked them; however, I have some suggestions:

1. In Team 1, Staryu can't have Recover because genderless Pokémon can't inherit Level Up Moves (bugs and glitches that allow those Pokémon to get their Levep Up Moves are banned in both Nintendo's Little Cup and Smogon's Little Cup).​

2. Since Scyther and Chansey are usually banned in Smogon's Little Cup, Pokémon like Elekid can have Thunderbolt instead of Thunder and Houndour can have Flamethrower instead of Fire Blast. Most Pokémon are frail in LC and thus are KO'ed by Thunderbolt or Flamethrower which have the benefits of never missing and scoring more Critical Hits.​

3. In Team 3, Porygon can have Sharpen. It can learn that move from the Pokémon Stadium 2 Move Relearner (you just need to use Porygon in a Red, Blue or Yellow cartridge when you beat the Elite Four and the Champion).​

Nice work, hope we can play again soon.
 
Until now, many Poison Types were unranked in any Little Cup Tier List; however, it turns out that some of them are good as you can see below:

:ekans: Ekans Replay
:koffing: Koffing Replay
:grimer: Grimer Replay

However, Venonat seems to be bad:

:venonat: Venonat Replay 1
:venonat: Venonat Replay 2

I put Ekans, Koffing and Grimer in the Middle Tier and Venonat in the Low Tier of my Tier List. Do you agree with their placements chums? What about the other unranked Poison Types like Bellsprout and Oddish? Please feel free to share your thoughts below.
Very nice, chum, they seem to perform quite well. Their vast movepool is great for this format and their type isn't bad there either! It's a shame Diglet being so present on standard GSC and other key differences makes them not perform well there, they are very fun to play with.



Little Cup Underrated Pokémon

My good chum Stealth Croc and I used some underrated mons yesterday, here are the replays:

Sunkern 1
Sunkern 2
Sentret 1
Sentret 2
Kabuto, Ledyba and Slugma

Sandshrew

I also used Tyrogue, but, for unknown reasons, the replays weren't saved :/

Now, here are my thoughts on the Pokémon we used:

:sunkern: Sunkern: It's bad. Has the lowest total sum of max stats of the generation, few good moves and, for unknown reasons, it doesn't learn Razor Leaf, Stun Spore, Sleep Powder nor Leech Seeds. Its good moves are Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, Return, Hidden Power and Synthesis.

:tyrogue: Tyogue: At level 100 his stats are 10 points higher than Sunkern (273 HP and 168 on everything else), which is still bad, even for Little Cup standards. He is slow, gets hit hard by everything and also has a small movepool; however, his combination of High Jump Kick and Mach Punch allow him to win the majority of battles against the Normal, Rock and Steel Pokémon of the format. Most of those Pokémon can't kill Tyrogue even with their strongest moves and don't survive the High Jump Kick + Mach Punch combo, even if both moves connect with their lowest rolls. Some mons can Explode against Tyrogue, but that is a win for him on one vs one bouts (also, I'd prefer a Geodude to Explode against my Tyrogue than against my Chansey). Tyrogue's best moves are High Jump Kick, Mach Punch, Hidden Power, Rapid Spin, Strength, Return and Thief. Tyrogue is a bad Pokémon, but is not as bad as many would think.

:sentret: Sentret: Has good moves, but is the slowest Pokémon of the format along with Slowpoke which limit its usefulness. Quick Attack stops Reversal Scyther and Flail Doduo, though. Sentret's best moves are: Double Edge, Return, Slash, Surf, Shadow Ball, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Thief and Quick Attack.

:ledyba: Ledyba: Offensive Ledyba is better than support Ledyba in my opinion because it has a good variety of attacks: Hidden Power Bug, Hidden Power Flying, Double-Edge, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Pysbeam, Giga Drain and Thief. Ledyba is a Low Tier Pokémon, but it can take off guard players that are not prepared against it.

:sandshrew: Sansdhrew: A good Pokémon, its only "flaw" is that there are better Ground Pokémon in the format like Cubone, Onix and Rhyhorn. Its Speed and Special Defense are also low. With Paralysis support it can shine since it has Swords Dance, Earthquake and Rock Slide (the latter move always kills Scyther if it doesn't miss).

:kabuto: Kabuto: One of the few Pokémon that kill Scyther 100% of the time (unless the bug has Hidden Power Grass or Endure+Reversal). Ancient Power and Hidden Power Rock always KO Scyther. The problem is that, for unknown reasons, Kabuto no longer learns Surf in Gen II, so if you want it to have that move on Little Cup you have to erase Ancient Power, trade it back to Gen I, teach it Surf and, finally, return it to Gen II. The Move relearner from Gen II doesn't work for Egg Moves, so once you erase Ancient Power, Kabuto loses the move forever at level 5. Surf is needed to One Hit KO Cubone, because Bubblebeam never kills aside from crits and Hidden Power Water doesn't kill on low rolls. You have to decide if Kabuto will have Ancient Power + Bubblebeam/Hidden Power Water or Hidden Power Rock + Surf. Aside from that flaw, Kabuto has good Speed and moves, the ones I haven't mentioned are: Ice Beam, Return, Body Slam, Giga Drain, Icy Wind, Thief, Endure, Flail, Rapid Spin and Reflect. Kabuto is definitely a Middle Tier if not Mid High.

:slugma: Slugma: It didn't have a chance to do anything in our battles, but I guess it is bad due to its low Speed. It also has few good moves: Flamethrower, Rock Slide and Acid Armor. We need to test this mon more.

So what do you think of these mons chums? Which underrated mon would you like us to test next time? There are many to choose from! Seel, Shellder, Goldeen, Horsea, Hoothoot, Spearow, etc. Also, click here to see my updated tier list of the format.
Only Kabuto stands out in my eyes here, chum. The others belong to the lowest tier IMO.

hello! i started playing this tier around a month ago now through random challenges in the ruins of alph room, so i thought i could revive this thread a little. here are the teams that ive built as of now; theyre far from perfect, but its what i came up with by my own:

:gs/exeggcute: :gs/abra: :gs/staryu: :gs/elekid: :gs/houndour: :gs/pineco: exeggcute offense

:gs/paras: :gs/porygon: :gs/staryu: :gs/diglett: :gs/chinchou: :gs/elekid: paras antilead 1

:gs/paras: :gs/cubone: :gs/staryu: :gs/porygon: :gs/abra: :gs/diglett: paras paraspam with cubone

i dont have much else to say as im still rather new to the format, im just hoping that my post can bring a little bit of light to gsc lc as i think its a very fresh and nice experience one can have in gen2. have a nice day.
Team 3 - I believe Curse Pory in better on this team, as it has very solid para spread. You can even dump TW for Thief. I believe two Thunder Wavers do the job on most matchups. Another way to go is to put Thief over TW on Abra. Anyways, loved your team, everything works well with para and has a perfect balance of defensive options and offensive power!

Team 1 - You definitely don't want to run toxic on Pineco. It's a fast paced tier with a lot of switch-outs and a item that recovers all or most of your HP. I'd go with Giga Drain for rock types or HP Ground for Gastly and fire types. Rapid spin is also a solid option. HP water Eggie seems odd to me, I guess we better run Sludge Bomb for fire types, but it's cool to test it anyway. And yea, Recover Staryu is illegal.

Team 2 - Again, I don't think you need that much para support. Chichou seems redundant here with Elekid + Digglet + Staryu. And yea, Tbolt > Thunder on Elekid here.

Nice job, man. Keep it up!
 
I'm making some changes to my tier list. After playing over 140 games in the tier, I still see a huge potential to explore it with underated mons and sets!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1V-Ih0ezgnCngysQx1Oaa-zPlFocVW9dZcxWjanQP980/edit#gid=0

Chansey and Gold Berry situation
But first, I'd like to make a case on the banlist. Basically, the metagame we have been playing for the last 3 years+ is the one that was set for RoA Tour Nights, which has both Chansey and Gold Berry banned. That's pretty non-sense, as Gold Berry was banned ONLY to nerf Chansey (as seen in this thread). On the other hand, allowing Gold Berry would be great for the diversity of the tier, as many low tier/limbo/unranked mons have big HP (Slowpoke, Drowzee, Snubull, Rhyhorn, Teddiursa, Seel, Grimer, etc.), and only a few on the top tiers would benefit from it.
As for Chansey, for me it should remain banned. I don't have enough experience with it to say it's certainly broken. Beelzemon is by far the one that has more experience in the tier (combined GSC LC and Stadium 2 LC, 3v3 and 6v6) and he thinks it is. What we can all agree is that it is a controversial and close decision. Even if it's not broken, Chansey centralizes the metagame so much. I think we can expect it in like ~9/10 teams and it also discourages the use of many many mons, especially if Gold Berry is banned to nerf it! I think it's safe to say Chansey makes the game much less diverse, and therefore, less fun (inb4 fun is subjective)!

So, my suggetion is that:
  • Chansey remains Banned;
  • Gold Berry gets Unbanned.

skies Typhlito if you would care to update the OP, here is the new banlist (Present included ):

Ruleset:

  • Sleep Clause is ON.
  • Species Clause is ON.
  • OHKO Clause is ON.
  • Evasion Moves Clause is ON.
  • Endless Battle Clause is OFF.
  • The following Pokemon are banned:
    • Scyther
    • Chansey
  • The following moves are banned:
    • Sonic Boom
    • Dragon Rage
    • Present

Also, you might just add 3 to each speed tier to make it accurate!

Tagging the most active players in the meta for their opinion:
Beelzemon 2003 Marowhacked Eo Ut Mortus Earthworm
 
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Little Cup Suggested Ruleset for Pokémon Stadium 2

Hi chums, the following rules are based on the ones that are used in Pokémon Stadium 2, I simply added four rules to make the battles more fair and interesting. OK, without further ado, here they are:

-Pokémon Allowed: Only Pokémon that haven't evolved and can evolve in Gen II are allowed, this includes Chansey and Scyther. Below is the list of the 86 Pokémon allowed:

:chikorita: Chikorita
:cyndaquil: Cyndaquil
:totodile: Totodile
:pidgey: Pidgey
:spearow: Spearow
:hoothoot: Hoothoot
:rattata: Rattata
:sentret: Sentret
:pichu: Pichu
:caterpie: Caterpie
:weedle: Weedle
:ledyba: Ledyba
:spinarak: Spinarak
:geodude: Geodude
:zubat: Zubat
:cleffa: Cleffa
:igglybuff: Igglybuff
:togepi: Togepi
:sandshrew: Sandshrew
:ekans: Ekans
:mareep: Mareep
:wooper: Wooper
:gastly: Gastly
:onix: Onix
:bellsprout: Bellsprout
:hoppip: Hoppip
:paras: Paras
:poliwag: Poliwag
:magikarp: Magikarp
:goldeen: Goldeen
:slowpoke: Slowpoke
:oddish: Oddish
:drowzee: Drowzee
:abra: Abra
:pineco: Pineco
:nidoran f: Nidoran female
:nidoran m: Nidoran male
:sunkern: Sunkern
:exeggcute: Exeggcute
:venonat: Venonat
:scyther: Scyther
:koffing: Koffing
:grimer: Grimer
:magnemite: Magnemite
:voltorb: Voltorb
:snubbull: Snubbull
:vulpix: Vulpix
:growlithe: Growlithe
:marill: Marill
:diglett: Diglett
:mankey: Mankey
:meowth: Meowth
:psyduck: Psyduck
:machop: Machop
:tyrogue: Tyrogue
:magby: Magby
:smoochum: Smoochum
:elekid: Elekid
:natu: Natu
:tentacool: Tentacool
:krabby: Krabby
:staryu: Staryu
:shellder: Shellder
:remoraid: Remoraid
:chinchou: Chinchou
:seel: Seel
:eevee: Eevee
:horsea: Horsea
:swinub: Swinub
:teddiursa: Teddiursa
:phanpy: Phanpy
:doduo: Doduo
:ponyta: Ponyta
:cubone: Cubone
:rhyhorn: Rhyhorn
:houndour: Houndour
:slugma: Slugma
:porygon: Porygon
:chansey: Chansey
:omanyte: Omanyte
:kabuto: Kabuto
:bulbasaur: Bulbasaur
:charmander: Charmander
:squirtle: Squirtle
:dratini: Dratini
:larvitar: Larvitar


-Species Clause.

-Level restrictions:
All your Pokémon must be at level 5.

-Gold Berry is allowed.

-Item Clause.

-Evasion Moves are banned.*

-One Hit KO Moves are banned.*

-It is banned to have these moves in the same set:
A move that traps the opponent permanently (e.g. Mean Look) and a move that causes Sleep in the opponent (e.g. Hypnosis).*

-It is up to the TOs/players to decide if the Event Moves from the New York City Pokémon Center should be allowed.

-It is up to the TOs/players to decide if the Event Moves from the Japanese Pokémon Centers should be allowed.

-Bright Powder is banned*

-Team Preview.

-Choose three out of six Pokémon:
Before the battle starts, you should bring six Pokémon, then, after Team Preview takes place, you should choose three Pokémon for the battle.

-Dragon Rage and Sonic Boom do zero damage.

-Pokémon Stadium 2's Sleep Clause.

-Freeze Clause.

-Pokémon Stadium 2's Self KO Clause:
If your last Pokémon uses Self-Destruct or Explosion, you lose; on the other hand, the moves Destiny Bond and Perish Song fail when they're used by your last Pokémon.

*Rules marked with an asterisk were added to make the fights more fair and interesting.


About the rules we changed

Now we'll give a brief explanation of why we changed some rules of the original format:

-Evasion Moves are banned: In Pokémon Stadium 2 these moves were originally allowed; however, we decided to ban them for the same reason they're not allowed in formats like Overused: Evasion Moves make the game more luck based and can give an unfair advantage to some Pokémon, e.g. a Chansey with Double Team, Curse, Softboiled and Rollout or another attack is hard to stop.

-One Hit KO Moves are banned: These moves were also allowed in Pokémon Stadium 2; however, we banned them for similar reasons than those of Evasion Moves: they reward more luck than skill.

-It is banned to have a move that traps the opponent permanently and a move that causes Sleep in the opponent in the same set: This combination is considered broken in formats like Overused and Ubers; also, we've seen that the combination is still broken in Nintendo formats like the Poké Cup where Pokémon like Smeargle or Gengar can use it to KO two opponents which leaves the opposing team in a losing situation.

-Bright Powder is banned: This item is banned in all Smogon formats in all generations (the only exception is the Anything Goes format). Bright Powder reduces the accuracy of all of the opponent's moves by 7.8125 %.

In practical terms, Bright Powder is more powerful than using Double Team once because the user doesn't have to spend a turn to activate its effect. Bright Powder's effect is active as long as its user is on the battlefield; if the opponent switches out, the new Pokémon gets affected as soon as it arrives on the battlefield; same goes if the user switches out, each time that it returns to the battlefield, Bright Powder's effect activates.

Bright Powder is independent of Sand Attack, which means that its user can lower the accuracy of the opponent six more times, so an attack like Earthquake would end up with an accuracy of 30.421875 % (and if Evasion Moves were allowed and the user of Bright Powder used Double Team or Minimize six times, then Earthquake's accuracy would drop to 10.03921875 %!!!).

Feint Attack, Swift, Vital Throw, Thunder while raining and any move used after Lock on or Mind Reader connected are unnaffected by Bright Powder; however, all those moves or combinations are rare or situational; on the other hand, Haze is useless against Bright Powder; finally, stealing Bright Powder could create situations where one team had two of them, which would only worsen things.

When Bright Powder was allowed on Item Clause formats it turned the game into a luckfest where Explosion missed and Thunder didn't hit five times in a row.

Bright Powder is broken because its effect is permanent and can't be denied and because it has no reliable counters, that's why it is banned in all Smogon formats and why we recommend you to ban it on Little Cup and other Item Clause formats.


About the rules we didn't change

Now we'll explain why we kept some rules:

Why are Scyther and Chansey not banned?

Our philosophy is to only ban items, moves and strategies that are broken, but not Pokémon, that's a line we'll never cross. Banning Pokémon in official tournaments would be more controversial than banning items or moves. If we banned Scyther and Chansey, we'd also have to ban Pokémon in other formats like Snorlax and Zapdos in the Poké Cup, the Ubers in the Prime Cup, Slowbro in the Nintendo Cup '99, etc. Those measures would divide the player base and strip the formats of their unique qualities.

Why is Gold Berry still allowed?

Item Clause limits its use, also, we've tested the item in many serious matches and tournaments and came to the conclusion that the item is not broken when only one Pokémon can use it.


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Why are Scyther and Chansey not banned?

Our philosophy is to only ban items, moves and strategies that are broken, but not Pokémon, that's a line we'll never cross. Banning Pokémon in official tournaments would be more controversial than banning items or moves. If we banned Scyther and Chansey, we'd also have to ban Pokémon in other formats like Snorlax and Zapdos in the Poké Cup, the Ubers in the Prime Cup, Slowbro in the Nintendo Cup '99, etc. Those measures would divide the player base and strip the formats of their unique qualities.
So I have a question about this, and this whole post, is GSC Little Cup now considered a Pokémon Stadium 2 Metagame, or an Old Gen Smogon Metagame?

If it’s officially Stadium 2, why couldn’t you ban Pokémon? Don’t bans make the tier more competitive *cough Chansey and Scyther cough.*

Was this post just an alternative rules set if you wanted to play this way? If it is then nvm. Just wondering if Smogon for PS2 is more official.
 

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So I have a question about this, and this whole post, is GSC Little Cup now considered a Pokémon Stadium 2 Metagame, or an Old Gen Smogon Metagame?

If it’s officially Stadium 2, why couldn’t you ban Pokémon? Don’t bans make the tier more competitive *cough Chansey and Scyther cough.*

Was this post just an alternative rules set if you wanted to play this way? If it is then nvm. Just wondering if Smogon for PS2 is more official.
Stadium 2

According to corvere, Scyther and Chansey are banned in the smogon format
 
So I have a question about this, and this whole post, is GSC Little Cup now considered a Pokémon Stadium 2 Metagame, or an Old Gen Smogon Metagame?

If it’s officially Stadium 2, why couldn’t you ban Pokémon? Don’t bans make the tier more competitive *cough Chansey and Scyther cough.*

Was this post just an alternative rules set if you wanted to play this way? If it is then nvm. Just wondering if Smogon for PS2 is more official.
Little Cup appeared for the first time in the game Pokémon Stadium 2, which came out in the year 2000, so the Pokémon Stadium 2 version of the format is the true Little Cup of Gen II.

Smogon was founded in the year 2004 and its version of Little Cup is an unofficial adaptation of the format which is not recognized by Nintendo, Game Freak, Creatures nor the Pokémon Company.

In the year 2000 people played the Pokémon Stadium 2 version of the format, no one played 6 VS 6 battles without Item Clause and Chansey and Scyther banned, on the other hand, the Stadium 2 version of Little Cup has always been played in Japan and Chansey and Scyther have always been allowed there (here is their Tier List if you want to give it a look).

To sum up, there are two versions of Little Cup: the official and the unofficial and this thread is dedicated to both.

I prefer the official version of Little Cup; however, I also play the unofficial version now and then. You too are free to play the version of Little Cup that you prefer or both.
 
Little Cup Tier List for Pokémon Stadium 2

Little Cup appeared for the first time in the game Pokémon Stadium 2, which was released in Japan in December 2000. During Gen II’s heyday, it was one of the most popular formats (I still remember when I played it with my friends on my Nintendo 64). Below is a Tier List that Aided Furball, Stealth Croc and I built during six months, we tested every Pokémon to make sure that the list was accurate. As the title says, the list is based on Pokémon Stadium 2 rules, which can be found here; on the other hand, in each group, Pokémon are listed by their New Pokédex number and not by their performance, this means that, for example, Gastly and Houndour have the same power because both belong to the B+ letter of the High Tier. OK, without further ado, here is the list:

God Tier

S

1.
:scyther: Scyther
1.:chansey: Chansey

Top Tier

A+

3.
:poliwag: Poliwag
3.:voltorb: Voltorb
3.:elekid: Elekid
3.:staryu: Staryu
3.:ponyta: Ponyta
3.:cubone: Cubone

A-

9.
:diglett: Diglett
9.:porygon: Porygon

High Tier

B+

11.
:gastly: Gastly
11.:onix: Onix
11.:abra: Abra
11.:mankey: Mankey
11.:houndour: Houndour

B-

12.
:exeggcute: Exeggcute
12.:magnemite: Magnemite
12.:doduo: Doduo

Middle Tier

C+

19.
:chikorita: Chikorita
19.:drowzee: Drowzee
19.:psyduck: Psyduck
19.:magby: Magby
19.:krabby: Krabby
19.:shellder: Shellder
19.:chinchou: Chinchou
19.:teddiursa: Teddiursa
19.:omanyte: Omanyte
19.:kabuto: Kabuto

C

29.
:pineco: Pineco
29.:koffing: Koffing
29.:grimer: Grimer
29.:meowth: Meowth
29.:natu: Natu
29.:remoraid: Remoraid
29.:seel: Seel
29.:horsea: Horsea
29.:swinub: Swinub

C-

38.
:totodile: Totodile
38.:geodude: Geodude
38.:sandshrew: Sandshrew
38.:ekans: Ekans
38.:slowpoke: Slowpoke
38.:smoochum: Smoochum
38.:tentacool: Tentacool
38.:phanpy: Phanpy
38.:rhyhorn: Rhyhorn
38.:bulbasaur: Bulbasaur
38.:larvitar: Larvitar

Low Tier

D+

49.
:cyndaquil: Cyndaquil
49.:pidgey: Pidgey
49.:spearow: Spearow
49.:rattata: Rattata
49.:wooper: Wooper
49.:goldeen: Goldeen
49.:snubbull: Snubbull
49.:machop: Machop
49.:tyrogue: Tyrogue
49.:eevee: Eevee
49.:charmander: Charmander
49.:squirtle: Squirtle
49.:dratini: Dratini

D

62.
:hoothoot: Hoothoot
62.:sentret: Sentret
62.:pichu: Pichu
62.:ledyba: Ledyba
62.:cleffa: Cleffa
62.:igglybuff: Igglybuff
62.:mareep: Mareep
62.:bellsprout: Bellsprout
62.:oddish: Oddish
62.:nidoran f: Nidoran female
62.:nidoran m: Nidoran male
62.:venonat: Venonat
62.:vulpix: Vulpix
62.:growlithe: Growlithe
62.:marill: Marill

D-

77.
:spinarak: Spinarak
77.:zubat: Zubat
77.:togepi: Togepi
77.:hoppip: Hoppip
77.:paras: Paras
77.:sunkern: Sunkern
77.:slugma: Slugma

Bottom Tier

E

84.
:caterpie: Caterpie
84.:weedle: Weedle
84.:magikarp: Magikarp

Note: Aidedfurball ordered one Pokémon, Stealth Croc ordered 15, and I ordered the rest.


This is not the only Tier List that exists of this format, there are two more, the first was built by Gold, and the second was built by Clove Hammer, both players are from Japan.

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