GSC Grand Slam - Tier Discussion

[I am New]

I was wondering about testing articuno. It is a wall with absurd as f bulk. But its a good offensive mon. Its movepool is however very shallow bar its stab ice beam and hidden power. It adds a LOT of defensive utility to a team. It is a very good switch in to nidoqueen AND scares it out. It completly blankets piloswin without rock slide. It actually is not forced out by stuff like non curse boosted granbull or without hp rock which is a small roll to ko. Its spikes immune. Is pretty ok vs sd scyther. Not the best matchup sure but its pretty good. Not being 2 hit kod by sd boosted wing attack is very good. Blanks stuff like gyarados.

The defensive utility it adds is so much. The best set [probably] might be rest talk ice beam hp ground. just a pilo with spikes immune but a terrible typing. It hates electrics especially magneton AND lanturn. two very good top tier mons.
Articuno Hidden Power Ground vs. Magneton: 187-220 (65.1 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Magneton Thunder vs. Articuno: 251-296 (68.3 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lanturn Thunder vs. Articuno: 185-218 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Articuno Hidden Power Ground vs. Lanturn: 125-148 (27.5 - 32.6%) -- 75.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Electabuzz Thunderbolt vs. Articuno: 173-204 (47.1 - 55.5%) -- 19.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Articuno Hidden Power Ground vs. Electabuzz: 125-148 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

It really hates the tier's electrics
it also doesnt matchup amazing vs qwilfish either which is not great.

this mon should on paper be broken with its broken bulk and decently strong ice beam. But its movepool lets it down so much. It adds a lot of defensive utility to the tier. It certainly doesnot seem more broken than stuff like muk. I would like to see a retest on cuno.

 

[Blaine500]

I was wondering about testing articuno. It is a wall with absurd as f bulk. But its a good offensive mon. Its movepool is however very shallow bar its stab ice beam and hidden power. It adds a LOT of defensive utility to a team. It is a very good switch in to nidoqueen AND scares it out. It completly blankets piloswin without rock slide. It actually is not forced out by stuff like non curse boosted granbull or without hp rock which is a small roll to ko. Its spikes immune. Is pretty ok vs sd scyther. Not the best matchup sure but its pretty good. Not being 2 hit kod by sd boosted wing attack is very good. Blanks stuff like gyarados.

The defensive utility it adds is so much. The best set [probably] might be rest talk ice beam hp ground. just a pilo with spikes immune but a terrible typing. It hates electrics especially magneton AND lanturn. two very good top tier mons.
Articuno Hidden Power Ground vs. Magneton: 187-220 (65.1 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Magneton Thunder vs. Articuno: 251-296 (68.3 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lanturn Thunder vs. Articuno: 185-218 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Articuno Hidden Power Ground vs. Lanturn: 125-148 (27.5 - 32.6%) -- 75.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Electabuzz Thunderbolt vs. Articuno: 173-204 (47.1 - 55.5%) -- 19.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Articuno Hidden Power Ground vs. Electabuzz: 125-148 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

It really hates the tier's electrics
it also doesnt matchup amazing vs qwilfish either which is not great.

this mon should on paper be broken with its broken bulk and decently strong ice beam. But its movepool lets it down so much. It adds a lot of defensive utility to the tier. It certainly doesnot seem more broken than stuff like muk. I would like to see a retest on cuno.

I think its bulk is the exact reason why it wouldn't work in UU. It literally lives Zapdos's stab thunder from full who is even more powerful than Magneton (the most powerful electric type in UU) while being weak to that... o_o


Zapdos Thunder vs. Articuno: 260-306 (67.8 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even if Aerodactyl were to get unban from UUBL -> UU (which I think there's a good argument for) Articuno would still live it's main stab attack while being x4 weak to it and potentially 1 shot back with Blizzard!?! BRUH


Aerodactyl Hidden Power Rock vs. Articuno: 316-372 (82.5 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Articuno Blizzard vs. Aerodactyl: 302-356 (85 - 100.2%) -- 2.6% chance to OHKO

This brings me to my next point. If we put aside Jynx for a moment, Articuno has the highest special attack amongst ice types in the entire game and people forget that. If it were brought down into UU it would bully the tier imo and not only defensively but offensively as well. It can literally 1 shot Sycther if it wants to which is the main pokemon that even makes a case for Aero.


Articuno Blizzard vs. Scyther: 292-344 (89.2 - 105.1%) -- 33.3% chance to OHKO


It 2 shots Granbull after spikes (and this without even getting into all the freezes it would bring) who is up there in terms of offensive power for UU and isn't even likely to get 3 hit ko back with return (and this without even using reflect).

Articuno Blizzard vs. Granbull: 173-204 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- 91.5% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery

Granbull Frustration vs. Articuno: 125-148 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 4.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


2 shots Gyarados with HP electric without batting an eye and doesn't care for much of what it does back to it

Articuno Hidden Power Electric vs. Gyarados: 200-236 (53 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


2 shots Piloswine after spikes who on its own has really become a problem for Nidoqueen (Queen obviously also gets 2 shot as well)

Articuno Blizzard vs. Piloswine: 173-204 (42.9 - 50.6%) -- 47.8% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery


Articuno Blizzard vs. Nidoqueen: 280-330 (73.1 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery

Hopefully you see by now why dropping Articuno down into UU would be ill advised. It's a legendary pokemon after all with the stats that go along with such a title and lets not forget either that it was the last bird standing back in the events of Pokemon 2000 nor did it ever get caught by Lawrence the 3rd (why do you think?)

 

[I am New]

I think its bulk is the exact reason why it wouldn't work in UU. It literally lives Zapdos's stab thunder from full who is even more powerful than Magneton (the most powerful electric type in UU) while being weak to that... o_o


Zapdos Thunder vs. Articuno: 260-306 (67.8 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even if Aerodactyl were to get unban from UUBL -> UU (which I think there's a good argument for) Articuno would still live it's main stab attack while being x4 weak to it and potentially 1 shot back with Blizzard!?! BRUH


Aerodactyl Hidden Power Rock vs. Articuno: 316-372 (82.5 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Articuno Blizzard vs. Aerodactyl: 302-356 (85 - 100.2%) -- 2.6% chance to OHKO

This brings me to my next point. If we put aside Jynx for a moment, Articuno has the highest special attack amongst ice types in the entire game and people forget that. If it were brought down into UU it would bully the tier imo and not only defensively but offensively as well. It can literally 1 shot Sycther if it wants to which is the main pokemon that even makes a case for Aero.


Articuno Blizzard vs. Scyther: 292-344 (89.2 - 105.1%) -- 33.3% chance to OHKO


It 2 shots Granbull after spikes (and this without even getting into all the freezes it would bring) who is up there in terms of offensive power for UU and isn't even likely to get 3 hit ko back with return (and this without even using reflect).

Articuno Blizzard vs. Granbull: 173-204 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- 91.5% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery

Granbull Frustration vs. Articuno: 125-148 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 4.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


2 shots Gyarados with HP electric without batting an eye and doesn't care for much of what it does back to it

Articuno Hidden Power Electric vs. Gyarados: 200-236 (53 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


2 shots Piloswine after spikes who on its own has really become a problem for Nidoqueen (Queen obviously also gets 2 shot as well)

Articuno Blizzard vs. Piloswine: 173-204 (42.9 - 50.6%) -- 47.8% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery


Articuno Blizzard vs. Nidoqueen: 280-330 (73.1 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery

Hopefully you see by now why dropping Articuno down into UU would be ill advised. It's a legendary pokemon after all with the stats that go along with such a title and lets not forget either that it was the last bird standing back in the events of Pokemon 2000 nor did it ever get caught by Lawrence the 3rd (why do you think?)

I mean blizzard has low pp and has terrible accuracy. Its so much worse than ice beam due to that. Yeah Blizzard is ludicrously powerful but it has terrible pp which makes articuno much more short term mon which makes it make use of that bulk a LOT less. blizzard hp electric rest talk is a good set. but blizzard is a lot less spammable than ice beam. and u are COMPLETELY walled by magneton AND Lanturn.
Ice beam is also much weaker crucially losing the two hit ko vs pilo and gyarados.
At the end of the day its articuno's shallow movepool that makes it seem an attractive option.
Its strong but not that strong with ice beam.

 

[cherryb0ng]

Someone provide a character limit for this discussion post lol.

 

[Blaine500]

I mean blizzard has low pp and has terrible accuracy. Its so much worse than ice beam due to that. Yeah Blizzard is ludicrously powerful but it has terrible pp which makes articuno much more short term mon which makes it make use of that bulk a LOT less. blizzard hp electric rest talk is a good set. but blizzard is a lot less spammable than ice beam. and u are COMPLETELY walled by magneton AND Lanturn.
Ice beam is also much weaker crucially losing the two hit ko vs pilo and gyarados.
At the end of the day its articuno's shallow movepool that makes it seem an attractive option.
Its strong but not that strong with ice beam.

Blizzard has the same accuracy as Thunder and more accuracy than things like Dynamicpunch which gets used in OU more often than you'd think. The pp issue that you mentioned gets cushioned by Sleep Talk which makes Blizzard go a long way in getting more out of it. As for Lanturn and Magneton they are both pretty niche mons that sadly don't get the love they deserve in the current meta. But even if your opponent were to bring them you can simply use Hidden Power Ground instead and/or build your team to address them completely. I maintain my stance, Articuno is just too OP in my opinon for UU.


Articuno Hidden Power Ground vs. Magneton: 187-220 (65.1 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery

Articuno Hidden Power Ground vs. Lanturn: 125-148 (27.5 - 32.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery

 

[Siatam]

The votes have been tallied and "Unban Aerodactyl" has won. The GSC UU slot in GSC Grand Slam will be UU + Aerodactyl.
You may find the votes tallied here.

Thank you to everyone who has discussed and voted. The tournament hosts and schedule will be announced shortly.