Done Gen8 CAP Updates - CAP13 - Necturna

:necturna: CAP13: Necturna Generation 8 Update :necturna:

Hello! Welcome to the Generation 8 Necturna update thread. In this thread, we will be updating the movepool of one of our past CAP creations to better match the changes Gamefreak made in Generation 8.

A major change that occurred between this update cycle and the last was to significantly narrow the scope of CAP updates. Abilities, statlines, and typings will not be changed during the course of this update. Only changes to a CAP's movepool will be allowed. Additionally, full movepool changes are also off the table, as the Update Leaders will decide where to distribute moves for their respective Pokemon based off logic and the ICC.

Furthermore, we have defined what type of changes are allowed to movepools, as well as the type of moves up for discussion. Movepool changes will be broken down in two categories: removals and additions. Moves that are subject to removal are those that have been rendered unusable in Sword and Shield, such as Pursuit, and past generation tutors and Technical Machiness that are not available as a Generation 8 Technical Machines or Technical Records. Move that are subject to addition are moves introduced in Sword and Shield and moves that are new Generation 8 Technical Machines or Technical Records. Please make sure that any moves brought up in this thread fall under at least one of these categories.

We have also defined the following considerations for use in evaluating move removals and additions. The foremost consideration is that any change proposed fits both the flavor of the CAP in question and the flavor of Generation 8 as a whole. This means that all changes should follow trends and precedents seen in Generation 8. Intentional buffing and balancing of CAP Pokemon is not the intent of this update cycle. We also wish to avoid the creation of an unbalanced CAP Pokemon. Therefore, the second consideration for move changes is the competitive impact of said changes. Moves that are clearly too powerful will be banned from discussion by the Update Leader.

This update cycle also has a set schedule. For four weeks, each of the seven Update Leaders will post a discussion thread for a single CAP Pokemon. This thread will be used for the discussion of changes to a CAPs movepool as explained in this post. Each thread will have six days reserved for discussion on potential changes to a CAP's movepool. On the seventh day, the Update Leader will collect the ICC and determine what will be changed. Controversial changes will be subject to a poll.

For the discussion of Necturna, please refer to this link for the CAP's full movepool. Some other resources the CAP mods have compiled to make discussion easier is this list of cut moves that are distributed to our CAP pokemon, and this list of past TMs that were not included as Gen 8 TMs and TRs. Note that for the TM list, moves with * are those that have been cut entirely.
 
Red means the move is not in SWSH
Blue means the move would only be available as a pre-Gen 8 transfer move through Pokemon Home
Green moves would be blue, except the move already appears in Level Up or Egg Moves


- Thunder Fang
- Poison Fang
- Super Fang
- Leer
- Vine Whip
Evolve: Horn Leech
6 Shadow Sneak
12 Leech Seed
17 Magical Leaf
23 Toxic Spikes
23 Will-O-Wisp
28 Hex
34 Grassy Terrain
39 Night Shade
45 Pain Split
50 Shadow Ball
56 Power Whip
Curse (Torkoal)
Gravity (Stonjourner -> Ferroseed)
Giga Drain (Oddish)
Future Sight (Munna)
Ingrain (Roselia)
Leaf Blade (Nuzleaf)
Leaf Storm (Gossifleur)
Natural Gift
Nightmare
Ominous Wind
Sketch (Smeargle is no longer available)
Gravity (moved to egg moves)
Pain Split (moved to level up)

Seed Bomb
Snore
Spite
Super Fang (moved to level up)
Worry Seed
TM04 Calm Mind
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power

TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM27 Return
TM28 Leech Life
TM29 Psychic
TM30 Shadow Ball
TM32 Double Team
TM41 Torment

TM42 Façade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM53 Energy Ball
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM65 Shadow Claw
TM68 Giga Impact
TM71 Stone Edge
TM77 Psych Up
TM85 Dream Eater

TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM96 Nature Power
TM97 Dark Pulse
TM100 Confide
Cut (Gen 5 / Gen 6 HM01)
Secret Power (ORAS TM94)
Telekinesis (Gen 5 TM19)
Flash (Gen 5 / Gen 6 TM 70)


Alright, friends Home has saved us from the daunting process of updating Necturna without Sketch. All of Necturna's blue moves will be moved into transfer only so the only discussion is what new moves to add. If anyone suggests Strength Sap I will be very displeased. Please remember that Necturna is very volatile and its Sketch options must be considered when looking at new moves.

For those wondering how Sketched moves are legal despite Sketch being removed, Necturna can sketch any move in gen7 and then be transferred, meaning that Gen8 moves cannot be sketched. So only then Gen8 moves we give it here can be used.

This thread will close on the 12th March
 
Last edited:
The only Gen 8 move I could see Necturna getting is Life Dew as a Level-up move or Egg Move (from Lucario, Roselia and Roserade). It's not bulky enough for Body Press to work, it doesn't have a tough tail to use for Breaking Swipe, Steel Beam is Steel-only, Branch Poke might work but it already gets Vine Whip so who cares, and the rest are all signature moves. Maybe it could get Apple Acid or Grav Apple via breeding with Appletun/Flapple, but otherwise I think that's it.
 
Just to be clear, should Sketch become available again after a game update (such as after Smeargle being reintroduced in a DLC), would this mean that Necturna automatically has access to gen 8 moves as well? Would Sketch be added back to its gen 8 learnset (not that this matters in practice because we could still rely on a "transfered" Necturna).

For its natural learnset, I think Crunch and Psychic Fangs are good additions from TRs. It learns a surprising amount of biting moves already and they offer no meaningful coverage, Crunch in particular. Pin Missile from TMs feels like a natural addition as well. There is not much else that I'd like to support, Spikes makes sense but I can see how it might be considered too good. I don't support Apple moves because they don't have good enough flavor justification.
 
Just to be clear, should Sketch become available again after a game update (such as after Smeargle being reintroduced in a DLC), would this mean that Necturna automatically has access to gen 8 moves as well? Would Sketch be added back to its gen 8 learnset (not that this matters in practice because we could still rely on a "transfered" Necturna).
Well, considering the entire point of Necturna is to make use of Sketch, I assume this would indeed be the case. Until Smeargle gets released though, this is what we have to work with.
 

LucarioOfLegends

Master Procraster
is a CAP Contributor
Just to be clear, should Sketch become available again after a game update (such as after Smeargle being reintroduced in a DLC), would this mean that Necturna automatically has access to gen 8 moves as well? Would Sketch be added back to its gen 8 learnset (not that this matters in practice because we could still rely on a "transfered" Necturna).
Technically through Home, any move that Necturna could have learned through Generations 1-7 via Sketch could be transfered over. We do not know if it flags moves that were "Sketched" since Smeargle isn't in the game and Necturna obviously isn't real, but we are working with the assumption because of it that it should let any Sketch'd move through that it could Sketch in USUM and earlier. I'd check with Jho but fairly certain thats the case.

Not feeling too good about Psychic Fangs though. While I agree that it fits flavorfully I feel like there is a solid reasoning that it does not get physical Psychic coverage in all of its previous workings, and considering how volatile Necturna actually is I do not feel content with giving it another true coverage type in its natural movepool. Seconding no on the Apple moves since they have zero flavor, and I am not sure how I feel about Pin Missile.
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I support barring Psychic Fangs. Necturna does not need more coverage. I ccan get behind Crunch, Pin Missile and Life's Dew. Dark type attacks are redundant coverage wise, Pin Missile is too weak to be a serious competitive option and Life's Dew isn't competitive at all. Other moves that could be considered are Mystical Fire, coming off its pitiful SpA wont be an issue, Solar Blade (already knows Leaf Blade and should be a non issue in regards to being inferior to Power Whip, Weather Ball (same argument as Mystical Fire) and Strength Sap because hell yeah
 
I support Life Dew being added as an egg move, and given the trend for Pokémon with access to biting moves in general, Game Freak has been giving them all Psychic Fangs, so I support having it but Luke don't want it LOL. Phantom Force can be included too since Necturna is a Ghost-type and the other Grass/Ghost Pokémon all get Phantom Force now. I also support Mystical Fire and Solar Blade
 
Phantom Force can be included too since Necturna is a Ghost-type and the other Grass/Ghost Pokémon all get Phantom Force now.
Necturna actually had Phantom Force until it was removed in a nerf - to be in line with the other nerfed Pokemon, Necturna will not be getting Phantom Force back as part of this update process.
 
I also wanted to suggest Metronome as a TR. It would be mainly a flavor callback to Necturna's previous ability to learn every move, and it does not have competitive implications.
 

LucarioOfLegends

Master Procraster
is a CAP Contributor
We are running on a different timeline for these final updates. As you can tell here we are going to be finishing all CAP updates TOMORROW (Friday) from 8am to midnight CST. Below is a list of every suggestion that has been made in this thread to the movepool in the OP. If you have more to suggest, please do them via post or (preferably) Discord.

>> Please join our Discord channel by clicking here. We'll be discussing these updates LIVE all day! <<

Below are the suggestions that have been made thus far in this thread. The parentheses represent the recommended move to remove in order to make move. Brackets represent breeding partners, while a strikethrough represents something that was discussed, but is vetoed by later discussion for being too competitively relevant.

Suggested New Moves:
Life Dew
Crunch
Psychic Fangs
Pin Missile
Spikes
Grav Apple
Apple Acid
Phantom Force
Mystical Fire
Solar Blade
 
1 Horn Leech (EVO)
1 Thunder Fang
1 Poison Fang
1 Super Fang
1 Leer
1 Vine Whip
1 Shadow Sneak
1 Leech Seed
17 Magical Leaf
23 Toxic Spikes
23 Will-O-Wisp
28 Hex
34 Grassy Terrain
39 Night Shade
45 Pain Split
50 Shadow Ball
56 Power Whip
Curse (Torkoal)
Gravity (Stonjourner -> Ferroseed)
Ingrain (Roselia)
TM08 Hyper Beam
TM09 Giga Impact
TM10 Magical Leaf
TM11 Solar Beam
TM12 Solar Blade
TM21 Rest
TM23 Thief
TM24 Snore
TM25 Protect
TM28 Giga Drain
TM31 Attract
TM33 Shadow Ball
TM38 Will-O-Wisp
TM39 Façade
TM43 Sunny Day
TM65 Shadow Claw
TM76 Round

TR11 Psychic
TR18 Leech Life
TR20 Substitute
TR26 Endure
TR27 Sleep Talk
TR32 Crunch
TR34 Future Sight
TR49 Calm Mind
TR50 Leaf Blade
TR58 Dark Pulse
TR65 Energy Ball
TR75 Stone Edge
TR71 Leaf Storm
TR72 Power Whip
TR77 Grass Knot
Spite
Worry Seed
Toxic
Double Team
Torment
Psych Up
Dream Eater
Swagger
Nature Power
Confide

Only Crunch and Solar Blade were added to Necturna's TM/TRs, and its Level Up pool was retconned to fit Gen8 Standards but otherwise no changes were made because messing with Necturna's movepool will never end well for anyone. It has substantial bite move flavour so it got Crunch and Solar Blade fits well with it having Leaf Blade and Sunny Day etc etc
 
Last edited by a moderator:

dhelmise

banend doosre
is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
Social Media Head
Code:
1 - Horn Leech
1 - Thunder Fang
1 - Poison Fang
1 - Super Fang
1 - Leer
1 - Vine Whip
1 - Shadow Sneak
1 - Leech Seed
17 - Magical Leaf
23 - Toxic Spikes
23 - Will-O-Wisp
28 - Hex
31 - Horn Leech
34 - Grassy Terrain
39 - Night Shade
45 - Pain Split
50 - Shadow Ball
56 - Power Whip
Egg - Curse
Egg - Gravity
Egg - Ingrain
TM/TR - Hyper Beam
TM/TR - Giga Impact
TM/TR - Magical Leaf
TM/TR - Solar Beam
TM/TR - Solar Blade
TM/TR - Rest
TM/TR - Thief
TM/TR - Snore
TM/TR - Protect
TM/TR - Giga Drain
TM/TR - Attract
TM/TR - Shadow Ball
TM/TR - Will-O-Wisp
TM/TR - Façade
TM/TR - Sunny Day
TM/TR - Shadow Claw
TM/TR - Round
TM/TR - Psychic
TM/TR - Leech Life
TM/TR - Substitute
TM/TR - Endure
TM/TR - Sleep Talk
TM/TR - Crunch
TM/TR - Future Sight
TM/TR - Calm Mind
TM/TR - Leaf Blade
TM/TR - Dark Pulse
TM/TR - Energy Ball
TM/TR - Stone Edge
TM/TR - Leaf Blade
TM/TR - Power Whip
TM/TR - Grass Knot
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top