Done Gen 8 CAP Updates - CAP25G - Caribolt

[snake]

CAP25G: Caribolt ○ Generation 8 Update ​

Hello! Welcome to the Generation 8 Caribolt update thread. In this thread, we will be updating the movepool of one of our past CAP creations to better match the changes Gamefreak made in Generation 8.

A major change that occurred between this update cycle and the last was to significantly narrow the scope of CAP updates. Abilities, statlines, and typings will not be changed during the course of this update. Only changes to a CAP's movepool will be allowed. Additionally, full movepool changes are also off the table, as the Update Leaders will decide where to distribute moves for their respective Pokemon based off logic and the ICC.

Furthermore, we have defined what type of changes are allowed to movepools, as well as the type of moves up for discussion. Movepool changes will be broken down in two categories: removals and additions. Moves that are subject to removal are those that have been rendered unusable in Sword and Shield, such as Pursuit, and past generation tutors and Technical Machiness that are not available as a Generation 8 Technical Machines or Technical Records. Move that are subject to addition are moves introduced in Sword and Shield and moves that are new Generation 8 Technical Machines or Technical Records. Please make sure that any moves brought up in this thread fall under at least one of these categories.

We have also defined the following considerations for use in evaluating move removals and additions. The foremost consideration is that any change proposed fits both the flavor of the CAP in question and the flavor of Generation 8 as a whole. This means that all changes should follow trends and precedents seen in Generation 8. Intentional buffing and balancing of CAP Pokemon is not the intent of this update cycle. We also wish to avoid the creation of an unbalanced CAP Pokemon. Therefore, the second consideration for move changes is the competitive impact of said changes. Moves that are clearly too powerful will be banned from discussion by the Update Leader.

This update cycle also has a set schedule. For four weeks, each of the seven Update Leaders will post a discussion thread for a single CAP Pokemon. This thread will be used for the discussion of changes to a CAPs movepool as explained in this post. Each thread will have six days reserved for discussion on potential changes to a CAP's movepool. On the seventh day, the Update Leader will collect the ICC and determine what will be changed. Controversial changes will be subject to a poll.

For the discussion of Caribolt, please refer to this link for the CAP's full movepool. Some other resources the CAP mods have compiled to make discussion easier is this list of cut moves that are distributed to our CAP pokemon, and this list of past TMs that were not included as Gen 8 TMs and TRs. Note that for the TM list, moves with * are those that have been cut entirely.

This thread will be locked until snake_rattler makes their leading post.

 

[snake]

Hello CAP, it's time for my second Updates thread! Next up is Caribolt. Here's a copy of its movepool...

Red means the move is not in SWSH (with the exception of Celebrate, see below)
Blue means the move isn't a TM or TR in SWSH, so if we decide that it should be in Caribolt’s Generation 8 movepool, it must be moved in Level Up or Egg Moves (and thus requires discussion)
Green moves would be blue, except the move already appears in Level Up or Egg Moves

Level Up

Evo. Horn Leech
HS Horn Leech
HS Bullet Seed
HS Grassy Terrain
HS Electric Terrain
HS Boomburst
0 Tackle
0 Leafage
0 Leer
0 Thunder Shock
4 Leer
7 Thunder Shock
12 Quick Attack
15 Razor Leaf
19 Confuse Ray
24 Spark
28 Leech Seed
32 Body Slam
37 Seed Bomb
42 Wild Charge
47 Flash
52 Signal Beam
57 Zap Cannon
62 Magnet Rise

Egg (Field)

Double-Edge (Jolteon)
Double Kick (Jolteon)
Natural Gift (Donphan)
Power Whip (Smeargle*)
Present (Delibird)
Rapid Spin (Delibird)
Spotlight (Spinda)

TM List

TM01 Work Up
TM06 Toxic
TM08 Bulk Up
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM24 Thunderbolt
TM25 Thunder
TM27 Return
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM48 Round
TM49 Echoed Voice
TM53 Energy Ball
TM57 Charge Beam
TM68 Giga Impact
TM72 Volt Switch
TM73 Thunder Wave
TM75 Swords Dance
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM91 Flash Cannon
TM93 Wild Charge
TM96 Nature Power
TM100 Confide

Tutors

Electroweb
Endeavor
Frenzy Plant
Giga Drain
Grass Pledge
Helping Hand
Hyper Voice
Knock Off
Magnet Rise
Seed Bomb
Shock Wave
Signal Beam
Snore
Synthesis
Uproar
Worry Seed

Celebration CAP Event

CAP 25 Celebration

Caribolt @ Bottle Cap
Level 50
Ability: Random
Nature: Random
OT: Cooper
ID: 003089
Met: 2018 Celebration CAP (fateful encounter)
Ribbon: Souvenir Ribbon
- Celebrate
- Horn Leech
- Wild Charge
- Metronome

The following moves are removed automatically because they are not in SWSH: Flash, Signal Beam, Natural Gift, Spotlight, Return, and Frustration. Based on Smokomodo and Snaelstrom's update threads, Celebrate will not be returning also for consistency between all starter events.

Topics to Discuss:

1) Knock Off, Synthesis, and Toxic are competitive moves that Caribolt doesn't use often but aren't in its Level Up movepool, Egg movepool, or TM/TR list. Should we move them elsewhere in the movepool so it still has access to them? If so, where should which moves go?

2) Less competitive moves that Caribolt learns but would need to go elsewhere in the movepool are Echoed Voice, Charge Beam, Swagger, Nature Power, Confide, Endeavor, and Worry Seed. Should these go elsewhere? If so, where?

3) Are there any new TMs, TRs, or new moves introduced in SWSH that should be added to Caribolt's movepool? Keep in mind that these should be flavor-oriented additions.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

For TMs we could add Solar Blade given it has them horns LOL
For TRs Leaf Blade makes sense, and since Power Whip is a TR, it can be removed from the egg move list
Bolded moves are new moves. The list may be edited over time

TMs

TM01: Mega Kick
TM08: Hyper Beam
TM09: Giga Impact
TM10: Magical Leaf
TM11: Solar Beam
TM12: Solar Blade
TM14: Thunder Wave
TM21: Rest
TM24: Snore
TM25: Protect
TM28: Giga Drain
TM31: Attract
TM34: Sunny Day
TM39: Facade
TM41: Helping Hand
TM43: Brick Break
TM46: Weather Ball
TM50: Bullet Seed
TM52: Bounce
TM76: Round
TM80: Volt Switch
TM82: Electroweb
TM88: Grassy Terrain
TM90: Electric Terrain
TM93: Eerie Impulse

TRs

TR00: Swords Dance
TR01: Body Slam
TR08: Thunderbolt
TR09: Thunder
TR14: Metronome
TR20: Substitute
TR26: Endure
TR27: Sleep Talk
TR28: Megahorn
TR35: Uproar
TR42: Hyper Voice
TR48: Bulk Up
TR50: Leaf Blade
TR59: Seed Bomb
TR65: Energy Ball
TR70: Flash Cannon
TR71: Leaf Storm
TR72: Power Whip
TR77: Grass Knot
TR80: Electro Ball
TR85: Work Up
TR86: Wild Charge
TR95: Throat Chop

 

[MrDollSteak]

Out of the listed moves to think about Toxic is the only one I would remove. Knock Off while not soon on many four legged pokemon currently, is associated with grass types with Whips and vine moves, as such I could see its flavour being justified in the same way as power whip, it sends out vines like venusaur does from its collar and whips or knocks off there. As far as placement, I could see it as a breeding move from Rillaboom.

Synthesis makes sense flavour wise, as far as placement, an egg move would make it more similar to Sawsbuck and can be easily passed on by Leafeon.

As far as non competitive moves, Charge Beam is the only one I would bother trying to keep. Beams are a big part of the railgun flavour. No pokemon learn it as an egg move, so it would have to be incorporated into the level up move pool. I would say the current spot of Signal beam would make the most sense, as it is already a Beam move.

I agree with the three grass moves raised above, Leaf Blade, Solar Blade and Magical Leaf all strike me as safe moves considering what it already has. Others I could see are Mega Kick and Weather Ball. The former because of its strong legs, the second because of its addition to many grass types. I dont think it is too competitive as it runs off of Caribolt's inferior Sp. Atk.

 

[Dogfish44]

Topic 1
From a flavour perspective, Toxic feels like it's nigh impossible to justify. Well, that was easy. Synthesis is arguably the opposite - logical, and can probably slot into the Flash spot quite nicely, if we decide against making it an Egg Move (Shiftry or Leafeon).

Knock Off is weird in it's new distribution, but I don't think Caribolt's design fits the relevant mold - it's not got wings, claws, or hands it could realistically use, but instead an oversized pair of cancer bones to use.

Topic 2
Personally, all of these fall in the "take them or leave them" camp. Given we have very few gaps to plug in Caribolt's movepool, I'm somewhat inclined to leave them - unless we think four Egg Moves is a little bit on the skimpy side. Though it'd be nice to keep hold of Charge Beam, it seems to have a much smaller - and non-electric - pool of learners now, so perhaps not. If we want to keep Beam flavour (and I agree with that), one option is promoting Solar Beam to the LU slot that Signal Beam is falling out of.

Topic 3
Ah, the fun bit!

None of the new moves inspire me - given 99% of them are line-unique moves anyway.

TRs are fun! Agility (Equine Build), Endure (universal), Blaze Kick, and Leaf Storm (Fairly Common) all look like solid adds. I'm interested on High Horsepower - equine build fits (See Rapidash), however I'm aware that it's Competitive with a capital C.

TMs, meanwhile, have some fun stuff. Mega Kick would make sense for the equine build, but might (again) have competitive implications, even at 75% accuracy. Pay Day is weirdly distributed.... but now includes Rapidash, even though Rapidash wouldn't have gotten the original TM16 Gen I Pay Day - and it's appropriate for christmas thematics imho.

Magical Leaf and Solar Blade (guess whcih anagram of "Had Paris" gets the latter) both seem sound, and I don't think Charm would be amis here. I can also certainly make an argument for Swift popping down here!

Eerie Impulse I think is the last one I'm seeing that's viable - Electric Types seem to get it fairly often, and I can completely see it replacing the Flash spot in the earlier movepool.

 

[Blue glass]

From the three competitive moves only Synthesis fits Caribolt's flavor. Toxic is reserved mostly for poison types and Knock off is not realy associated with deer-like Pokémon. Synthesis could substitute Flash in the level up list.

I don't see a reason to keep any of the non-competitive moves besides Charge beam and maybe Endeavor. The first one could replace Signal beam while Endeavor would be a new egg move.

For new additions, High Horsepower would be a no-brainer but physical ground coverage over 60 BP was banned in the moveset discussion so I don't know if we can suggest those. Bounce is in the learnsets of equally hoofed mamal-based mons as Mudsdale, Rapidash and Dubwool and could be a nice new addition. I would also suggest False Swipe and Throat Chop as both are learned by a bunch of horned mons.

 

[Voltage]

I think that the case for keeping Charge Beam is pretty self explanatory. Caribolt has rail gun antlers, and naturally, it may nee to charge them up to fire its beam. I really feel like that one should be a no-brainer. I will echo Blue Glass, in saying that you can easily fit it into Caribolt's movepool just by replacing Signal Beam since the move is roughly the same flavor/concept anyways. Otherwise, Solar Beam could also fit there as Dogfish suggested, but I personally am not as keen on it as I am with Charge Beam.

I feel like I'm echoing a lot of things people say, but keep Synthesis and drop Knock Off and Toxic. I can't see Caribolt spewing sludge everywhere to poison foes. As for Knock Off, there's very little flavor justification aside from it hitting things hard with its antlers or something. But even then, I would think given the nature of the antlers being more of a projectile weapon, Caribolt probably wouldn't be hitting things with them as much (save for Horn Leech I guess), especially since we didn't give it Megahorn in the first place.

For new TRs, I think Solar Blade is a really cool idea for Caribolt since like, with it's antlers it could harness the sun's energy and "combine that with electricity" or something totally unrealistic. I'm hesitant to give it High Horsepower simply because of the ground coverage, but man, it's hard to deny there's a lot of other reasons for that move to work. So many mons got it this generation, and it makes total sense that some equine creature (deer are equestrian, right?) like Caribolt would be able to get it. I'm also hesitant on Throat Chop, mainly because I have no idea how the heck Caribolt would "chop a throat" so to speak. I'm fine with the flavor on Bounce though, plus, I don't think that it would provide Caribolt with any additional competitive edges (especially in a dynamax-less metagame), so why not?

Lastly, Leaf Storm, Agility, and Mega Kick all make sense from a flavor standpoint, though these guys may have some slight competitive implications. Leaf Storm + Boomburst could theoretically give Caribolt precedent to run Specs (Boomburst, Leaf Storm, Volt Switch, coverage), which would then give you a slightly different Rotom-C which would allow you to then run another Rotom form, etc. which is something to note. I think Mega Kick is a fine alternative to losing Return/Frustration, especially with the accuracy loss, but again, that remains to be seen. Agility, I guess is a niche competitive thing, but I recall that we were hesitant to give Caribolt means of boosting its speed, so that's something to take into account.

Love Caribolt though, super based mon.

 

[snake]

Apologies for the delay on this thread, but it's well overdue to be closed. Expect a full, updated movepool soon!

 

[Birkal]

We are running on a different timeline for these final updates. As you can tell here we are going to be finishing all CAP updates TOMORROW (Friday) from 8am to midnight CST. Below is a list of every suggestion that has been made in this thread to the movepool in the OP. If you have more to suggest, please do them via post or (preferably) Discord.

>> Please join our Discord channel by clicking here. We'll be discussing these updates LIVE all day! <<

There is no more discussion to be had on Caribolt. The Update Leaders will be sharing this finalized movepool tomorrow. So instead, jump on our Discord and see what else needs to be done!

 

[snake]

Evo. Horn Leech
HS Horn Leech
HS Bullet Seed
HS Grassy Terrain
HS Electric Terrain
HS Boomburst
0 Tackle
0 Leafage
0 Leer
0 Thunder Shock
12 Quick Attack
15 Razor Leaf
19 Confuse Ray
24 Spark
28 Leech Seed
32 Body Slam
37 Seed Bomb
42 Wild Charge
47 Synthesis
52 Charge Beam
57 Zap Cannon
62 Magnet Rise

new TM/Rs: leaf storm / solar blade / throat chop / endure / swift / eerie impulse / charm
duplicates: metronome / power whip / grassy terrain ./ electric terrain / body slam

 

[Birkal]

Huge thanks to Roland le preaux for formatting the TMs/TRs on this one. Couldn't have done it with them!

Level Up

Evolution: Horn Leech
1 Horn Leech
1 Bullet Seed
1 Grassy Terrain
1 Electric Terrain
1 Boomburst
1 Tackle
1 Leafage
1 Leer
1 Thunder Shock
12 Quick Attack
15 Razor Leaf
19 Confuse Ray
24 Spark
28 Leech Seed
32 Body Slam
37 Seed Bomb
42 Wild Charge
47 Synthesis
52 Charge Beam
57 Zap Cannon
62 Magnet Rise

Egg (Field)

Double-Edge (Jolteon)
Double Kick (Jolteon)
Present (Delibird)
Rapid Spin (Delibird)

TM List

TM08 Hyper Beam
TM09 Giga Impact
TM11 Solar Beam
TM12 Solar Blade
TM14 Thunder Wave
TM21 Rest
TM24 Snore
TM25 Protect
TM28 Giga Drain
TM29 Charm
TM31 Attract
TM34 Sunny Day
TM39 Facade
TM40 Swift
TM41 Helping Hand
TM43 Brick Break
TM76 Round
TM80 Volt Switch
TM82 Electroweb
TM88 Grassy Terrain
TM90 Electric Terrain
TM93 Eerie Impulse

TR Moves

TR00 Swords Dance
TR01 Body Slam
TR08 Thunderbolt
TR09 Thunder
TR14 Metronome
TR20 Substitute
TR26 Endure
TR27 Sleep Talk
TR35 Uproar
TR42 Hyper Voice
TR48 Bulk Up
TR59 Seed Bomb
TR65 Energy Ball
TR70 Flash Cannon
TR71 Leaf Storm
TR77 Grass Knot
TR85 Work Up
TR86 Wild Charge
TR95 Throat Chop

Transfer Moves

Toxic (Gen 7 TM)
Double Team (Gen 7 TM)
Echoed Voice (Gen 7 TM)
Swagger (Gen 7 TM)
Nature Power (Gen 7 TM)
Confide (Gen 7 TM)
Endeavor (Gen 7 TM)
Knock Off (Gen 7 Tutor)
Synthesis (Gen 7 Tutor)
Worry Seed (Gen 7 Tutor)

 

[dhelmise]

1 - Horn Leech
1 - Bullet Seed
1 - Grassy Terrain
1 - Electric Terrain
1 - Boomburst
1 - Tackle
1 - Leafage
1 - Leer
1 - Thunder Shock
12 - Quick Attack
15 - Razor Leaf
19 - Confuse Ray
24 - Spark
28 - Leech Seed
32 - Body Slam
34 - Horn Leech
37 - Seed Bomb
42 - Wild Charge
47 - Synthesis
52 - Charge Beam
57 - Zap Cannon
62 - Magnet Rise
Egg - Double-Edge
Egg - Double Kick
Egg - Present
Egg - Rapid Spin
TM/TR - Hyper Beam
TM/TR - Giga Impact
TM/TR - Solar Beam
TM/TR - Solar Blade
TM/TR - Thunder Wave
TM/TR - Rest
TM/TR - Snore
TM/TR - Protect
TM/TR - Giga Drain
TM/TR - Charm
TM/TR - Attract
TM/TR - Sunny Day
TM/TR - Facade
TM/TR - Swift
TM/TR - Helping Hand
TM/TR - Brick Break
TM/TR - Round
TM/TR - Volt Switch
TM/TR - Electroweb
TM/TR - Grassy Terrain
TM/TR - Electric Terrain
TM/TR - Eerie Impulse
TM/TR - Swords Dance
TM/TR - Body Slam
TM/TR - Thunderbolt
TM/TR - Thunder
TM/TR - Metronome
TM/TR - Substitute
TM/TR - Endure
TM/TR - Sleep Talk
TM/TR - Uproar
TM/TR - Hyper Voice
TM/TR - Bulk Up
TM/TR - Seed Bomb
TM/TR - Energy Ball
TM/TR - Flash Cannon
TM/TR - Leaf Storm
TM/TR - Grass Knot
TM/TR - Work Up
TM/TR - Wild Charge
TM/TR - Throat Chop