Freedom Cup Discussion Thread

[AlexIGuessNotFound]

I don't mean any disrespect on this thread but it's funny that you said that baton pass would be dominant in this meta but yet the top 20 teams don't utilize baton pass and also I watch your team only hit a 37% win rate. I have played BSS since generation 6 and all these Smogon bans are not a problem in the 3v3 singles I am not taking up Verlis I can't stand him myself but he is correct the Japanese players have adapted to evasion, baton pass, etc. Also since this format uses the official rules in which you can't use the same item on multiple Pokemon, team building is a lot different so therefore the cheeky plays like baton pass, evasion, and spore can be stopped easily. I remember back in Gen 6 Smogon banned Blaziken (Speed Boost) from OU but in Battle Spot Singles He wasn't even in the top 10 most used Pokemon on the ladder. BSS and OU are so different in Team building that it's like they are not from the same game. This Freedom Cup was fun in theory.

tbh that was a pretty bad prediction. BP is still pretty garbage even with what i've tried to do with it. It just has to many counterplay that can't all be answered on one team. But fuck Verlis that's something we can all agree on.

 

[clovre]

LMAO

 

[Hiddenfreezer]

Maybe this is known but One Pass Teams (e.g. Espartha with CM and Speed Boost into Chi-Yu) is a much harder team to beat than Full BP for some reason.

Also we REALLY need item clause in Smogon Metagames. Like I have come to realize that I like that a lot. Much more strategic and forced use of Items instead of only using Boots or Leftovers for example.

 

[SuperMemeBroz]

Also we REALLY need item clause in Smogon Metagames. Like I have come to realize that I like that a lot. Much more strategic and forced use of Items instead of only using Boots or Leftovers for example.

An item clause would make the game feel more engaging to watch as well without boots and lefties on everything

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

An item clause would make the game feel more engaging to watch as well without boots and lefties on everything

tell game freak to buff hazard removal first

 

[DragonPhoenix333]

yeah uh from what ive seen from a relatively low 1300-1400 perspective bpass is just ass and has decent counterplay, idk about u guys but to me kowtow cleave kingambit exists-

Y’all forget Mew Exists when making this list, didn’t you

uhh mew's movepool mainly died this gen iirc

Maybe this is known but One Pass Teams (e.g. Espartha with CM and Speed Boost into Chi-Yu) is a much harder team to beat than Full BP for some reason.

This is 100% true but tbh the one pass can still be a waste sometimes as the setup can be forced out easily. this also has opportunity cost because instead of bpass espathra, you could've been running offensive espathra when sometimes bpass espathra might not even work, and even when it does not even that well with all the gambits and especially urshifu-s running around because if you protect on urshifu-s unseen fist gets it through protect and you die

 

[Blimax]

I gave this format a try as it is hosted by Freezai, I think I did really well.
I played 50 games all total and ended up at No: 11 in the Freedom Cup Ladder.

I could not play more or try for quals as I have too much IRL commitments.
However these are the teams which I used, the 11 losses you see are all under 1200 ELO phase when I was testing stuff.

Offense: https://pokepast.es/0c300f8657663c57
Stall: https://pokepast.es/c0c1d76de8bc59a0

Feel free to use them, the offense team is really good, I lost only 1 game with it, that also to a Vivillon.

My overall thoughts about this format: Its fun casually, but once people play it seriously and 75% of the player base transitions into Dugtrio Stall, its not fun anymore.

Regardless, GL to all players participating, have a good one.
Thanks!

 

[Red Ssulf Agin]

I tried both and they are very good, thanks I like them!

 

[MattC (Banned)]

I FOUND THIS THREAD FINALLY

So what do you need on your team?

- A Moody stop
- A Baculegion answer
- A Flutter Mane answer
- A Kingambit answer
- A Baton Pass stop
- An Amoonguss check
- A Shed Tail check
- Something for the lead matchup

And many more

So what can handle most of this stuff?

Chesnaught @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Bulletproof
Level: 50
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Drain Punch
- Synthesis
- Spiky Shield

Chesnaught imo is incredibly specific, but also super good at what it does. It's a Grass type (can't be hit with Spore) that can actually live physical blows so it makes for a good safety net against things like Urshifu (both forms), Basculegion, Chien-Pao, Amoonguss and Kingambit. It may need to Tera Dark into Basculegion to beat it, but once it does there's nothing the Basculegion user can do except use a tera itself. It even beats Iron Bundle in the right situation. Unfortunately, it needs to use its tera against Basculegion or it will be OHKOd. And it's still pretty bad into Flutter Mane. Again, super specific but good at what it can do.



Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Level: 50
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 244 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Taunt

I was actually considering Iron Jugulis or Chi-Yu for this slot fun fact. But if you dont have a good lead, you dont have a good team. Glimmora is possibly the single best hazard setter pokemon has ever seen, and unless you have your own Glimmora, you're risking it getting up all of Stealth Rock, Spikes and Toxic Spikes. That is... unless you have an anti-lead. freezai, aim and maybe blunder are the only people that I know that have made a video on Freedom Cup (as of making this post). And because of them, I've been seeing a few anti-lead Sandy Shocks specifically because of Glimmora. But here's the thing about the lead matchup: the most common ones are , /, , , , and sometimes or . Now unless you can match hazards with hazards, you're in trouble. You need to have some way to remove the hazards or just negate it altogether. Enter Landorus Incarnate. We all know why it's banned in standard play and the simplified answer is strength. Sheer Force + Life Orb + Earth Power is so incredibly strong, it can flat out OHKO a base form Palafin at near max special attack - which most will run either way. Focus Blast is a nice way of catching an Orthworm trying to use Shed Tail - and unless they absolutely need it, they won use their terastallization. Psychic is consistent damage that actually hits things for super effective damage like Amoonguss and Urshifu Rapid Strike. And the interesting part about this set to many is Taunt. Taunt is a niche way of securing the lead matchup or sniping an Amoonguss using a near riskless Spore. It won't be able to OHKO Amoonguss with Psychic, so this is another alternative to shut it down.


I really like this tier and got to the 1200s with an albeit quirky team (a start is a start). Here's the team for reference https://pokepast.es/777d8a8a41d79afc

If this format gets deleted, im striking against Smogon for unreasonable removal of something many people enjoy (joke)

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

I FOUND THIS THREAD FINALLY

So what do you need on your team?

- A Moody stop
- A Baculegion answer
- A Flutter Mane answer
- A Kingambit answer
- A Baton Pass stop
- An Amoonguss check
- A Shed Tail check
- Something for the lead matchup

a switch into iron bundle or just out offense it, smth against the common evasion boosters or evasion -> BP, HO as usual cuz having a team just fall to BU palafin under screens will suck balls, and yeah... i wouldnt say amoonguss should be on there it should be more checks to offensive shit people are running such as BU ape to...

 

[Clas]

We have new samples! Click on the Pokemon to view them!

Offense
- That One Glimmora Stack HO by Swiping Cards
- Glimmora Stack + Lando-I HO by Coach Jones 6fifth
- Baton Pass Screens HO by Sylveon is so cute

Balance
- AV Goodra-H + Alomomola Balance By Nerds of a Feather
- CB Chien-Pao Balance by SkipTheDripBayless

Stall
- SlowSpam Stall by OnArceus
- Talonflame Hard Stall by SkipTheDripBayless
- Dugtrio + Hawlucha Hard Stall by Juliusfunnel

These are also available in the room via the room intro or the /rfaq samples command.

 

[SnackWasTaken]

The Elephant in the room.
Baton Pass

Baton Pass is inherently a cheese strategy, aiming to stack boosts to the point of becoming unkillable. Then the chain passes off the boosts to a designated sweeper that cleans everything's clock. While this is very much a cheese strategy, the player can optimize it to make it as effective as possible. This is an attempt to try and make a comprehensive guide to Baton Pass. Feedback is much appreciated.

The Pokemon That Should Be On Every Serious Baton Pass Team

This Pokemon is absolutely a must on any baton pass team. Not only possessing the Baton Pass defining ability, Speed Boost but also having access to Calm Mind to boot. Espathra is already an amazing Pokemon in its own right, and baton pass would be much worse off without its support. Here is an example of a set.

Espathra Baton Pass Set

Espathra @ Leftovers / Heavy-Duty Boots / Mental Herb
Ability: Speed Boost
Level: 50
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Baton Pass

Magic Bounce is crucial to the function of Baton Pass. Being able to block Taunt/Whirlwind and other status of that nature is absolutely incredible. Espeon can serve as a very potent Baton Pass sweeper with Stored Power and Dazzling Gleam coverage.

Espeon Baton Pass Sweeper Set

Espeon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Magic Bounce
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Dazzling Gleam
- Substitute
- Baton Pass

The Components of Baton Pass

Screens Lead
Baton Pass Chains are at their most vulnerable starting out. This is why a dedicated screens setter is commonplace on these teams. There are a variety of options for screen setters to use.
: Dragapult, the premier screens lead, is a versatile Pokemon, able to utilize baton pass to pass double teams, and dragon dances as well.
: The fastest screen leads in the game. Regieleki cannot do much else after setting screens, usually exploding. Not much to be said.
: Grimmsnarl's main niche is priority screens. Grimmsnarl also has access to Prankster Taunt, potentially denying the opponents hazards early game. With Item Clause preventing the widespread use of Heavy-Duty Boots, it could be valuable for Baton Pass teams.
/: Both have niches as screen setters with Magic Bounce, which also serves the niche of not only blocking but reflecting hazards. I would suggest Hatterene for this role because of its better bulk, access to Healing Wish, and the fact Espeon is probably better utilized in the chain.

Baton Pass Chain
The baton pass chain is the real bread and butter of the team style. The chain is the most crucial part of the process. If for whatever reason the chain is broken, there is only one thing you can do
View attachment 526757.

it is self-evident that preserving the chain is important, and one of the best ways to keep to chain intact is by raising evasion.

The only Pokemon to learn both Minimize and Baton Pass. As it turns out, not getting hit is a good way to win the game, as a result, Baton Pass is banned in standard play. Drifblim gets access to unburden, which can be activated to boost its speed. It can also boost with Calm Mind to help aid a special sweeper. Here is a set below.

Drifblim Unburden Baton Pass Set

Demon (Drifblim) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ghost
IVs: 0 Atk
- Minimize
- Baton Pass
- Strength Sap
- Calm Mind

: Dragapult can learn and abuse both Double Team and Baton Pass and is, in general, better than Drifblim, however, it can take time to stack up Double Team boosts, time which your opponent can potentially use to shut down the chain with a few lucky hits. However, Dragapult's teammates can fix this issue with the help of screens. Here is a Dragapult set below.

Dragapult Baton Pass Set

Dragapult @ Light Clay
Ability: Infiltrator
Level: 50
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Double Team
- Baton Pass

: Espathra is generally what the chain starts with. Espathra uses the set below to stall out as many turns to set up speed boosts for its teammate. It also uses Calm Mind to help make the chain unbreakable on the special side.

: Scizor is amazing for Baton Pass teams, getting Iron Defense, Swords Dance, and Agility. Its steel typing can help out Baton Pass chains defensively when dealing with certain Pokemon. Here is a set for Scizor to run below.

Scizor Baton Pass Set

Scizor @ Leftovers / Heavy-Duty Boots / Mental Herb
Ability: Light Metal
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Swords Dance
- Iron Defense
- Substitute
- Baton Pass

: Espeon can also use a utility set, taking advantage of Magic Bounce to support its teammates.

Espeon Baton Pass Set

Espeon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Magic Bounce
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Substitute
- Baton Pass

: Polteageist has access to the now infamous strategy of Smash Pass. It is sure to see use as a quick way to end games, preferably with a stored power sweeper like Espeon. Polteageist can also function as an endgame sweeper, although not on Baton Pass.

Polteageist Smash Pass Set

Polteageist @ White Herb
Ability: Cursed Body
Level: 50
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Baton Pass
- Shadow Ball
- Stored Power

Endgame Sweepers
These Pokemon are what the whole chain was leading up to. The choice of end-game sweeper doesn't matter as much as the stat boost should usually allow them to get the job done. However, with the right sweeper, you could cut some of the time needed to set up, leaving room for fewer things to go wrong, such as critical hits.

: Arguably the best late-game cleaner. Espeon can use the setup boosts in conjunction with Stored Power, which can become very, very powerful.

: Scovillian abuses Moody to replicate a fraction of 's power.

: Still the speed boosting menace is always was.

Boring Meta Threats
Any of the following Pokemon are perfectly potent sweepers, thanks to their general power.
, , , , , ,

Baton Pass Counterplay

Pokemon like Toxapex and Clodsire can use haze to get rid of the boosts. The best way to deal with these tactics is to set up with a Pokemon that can learn taunt. Generally, it's possible to break through them with a strong Stored Power, but the possibility of Tera Dark Clodsire can shut down a player trying to beat it in this fashion.

The Unaware Musketeers

The three unaware mons can be a difficulty for Baton Pass teams to beat. Skeledirge can very quickly snowball with Torch Songs that can go through substitutes. Generally stored power sweepers can break through them, but there is always the possibility of getting ruined by tera dark, found mostly on closure as it has the bulk to take SE fairy moves. However, it can still be broken through.

Tera Fairy Modest 252 Ev's Espeon into Clodsire

252+ SpA Tera Fairy Espeon Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Dark Clodsire: 206-246 (44.4 - 53.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

While Espeon has impossibly slim chances to 2 hit KO, the offensive pressure it forces could easily allow it to run Clodsire out of recovers. It does need to sacrifice bulk and the tera to break through Clodsire, unfortunately, but should not be ignored.
and have the ability Mold Breaker, allowing them to ignore unaware. As a result, they could break through The Unaware Musketeers.

Whirlwind, Taunt, and the Case of Dragon Tail

Whirlwind and Taunt work differently, but both have the same purpose, to disrupt the chain. It is not at all uncommon for a Pokemon in a Baton Pass chain to only carry status, making taunt potentially lethal even if you have built enough defenses to stall out the turns. The counterplay is the same, . Espeon can not freely switch in due to its poor bulk, even when EV'ed defensively. With Iron Defenses from and Calm Minds from, well everything, its poor bulk can be mitigated. doesn't work as well thanks to its terrible speed, causing it to still be out-sped by fast Pokemon. Mental Herb can also be used to deflect taunt (But not Whirlwind). Dragon Tail is a little weirder. It is not a status move, and as a result, cannot be countered by Magic Bounce. The counterplay is simpler here. Fairy types can outright block Dragon Tail while a Subsitute with enough Defense boosts could shake it off.

Critical Hits

Critical Hits very easily end a chain. With the number of high-powered threats running around, It is important to prepare for Crits. While you can use Battle Armor , The most common counterplay is to use Substitute.
The 's are very big problems for Baton Pass chains. Not only do their signature move ignore defense boosts, but they also hit like a . Dark is the most common Urshifu to prepare for, but water can be a problem as well. Is the Baton Pass chain's best answer to Urshifu-Dark not only resisting its stabs but also having reliable healing in Roost. can also threaten Urshifu back with both of its Stabs.

Adamant Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow Into Max Physdef Hawlucha

252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hawlucha on a critical hit: 131-155 (36.3 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

has access to Mold Breaker, you can use whatever tech you want with that, though I wouldn't let it get in the way of checking Urshifu.
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Is a bit trickier as there is no Pokemon that can handle both of its stabs. Your best chance at winning is trying to position a Water Absorb and the many bulky Psychics to attempt to take it down with a boosted SE move. However, if you are running , it can serve as a check to , but it is by no means reliable.

Honorable Mentions
Can use Prankster Taunt to shut down the chain, as it will outspeed Baton Pass, meaning countermeasures can't reliably take it on. The best counterplay is to hold Mental Herb on a Pokemon, and Baton Pass to a dark type. cannot handle reliably handle because of parting shot, which is reflected by Espeon, forcing it to switch. If you switched on a predicted taunt, Grimmsnarl is forced to switch out.

. I have seen a set on the ladder in which tricks a scarf onto a Pokemon, locking it into a status move, then sets up with the use of Shadow Tag. It is a pretty funny set, though all you really need to do is to make sure to use Baton Pass when it Tricks your Pokemon. If your Baton Pass goes first, pick a Pokemon with Baton Pass to render useless. And DO NOT SWITCH into .

If Anyone Knows Any Other Effective Form Of Counter Play, Please Share Them.
Role Compendium
*All the Pokemon learn Baton Pass
*Curse has a different effect on Ghost types
*Damage-dealing moves with a stat boost side effect have to have a 100% chance of occurring to be in the Role Compendium.
Boosts More Than One Stats
Acupressure -
Bulk Up - , , , , , , , , ,
Calm Mind - , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
Coil -
Curse - *, , , , , , , , *, , , ,
Dragon Dance - ,
Hone Claw - , , ,
Quiver Dance - , , , , ,
Shell Smash -
Tidy Up -
Work Up - , ,
Attack Stat
Acupressure -
Belly Drum -
Bulk Up - , , , , , , , , ,
Coil -
Curse - *, , , , , , , , *, , , ,
Dragon Dance - ,
Fell Stinger - , ,
Hone Claw - , , ,
Howl - ,
Shell Smash -
Swords Dance - , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
Work Up - , ,
Special Attack Stat
Acupressure -
Calm Mind - , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
Charge Beam - , , , ,
Mystic Power - , ,
Nasty Plot - , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
Quiver Dance - , , , , ,
Shell Smash -
Work Up - , ,
Defense Stat
Acid Armor -
Acupressure -
Bulk Up - , , , , , , , , ,
Charge - ,
Coil -
Cotton Guard -
Curse - *, , , , , , , , *, , , ,
Defense Curl - ,
Harden -
Iron Defense - ,
Stockpile - ,
Withdraw -
Special Defense Stat
Acupressure -
Amnesia - , , , , , ,
Calm Mind - , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
Quiver Dance - , , , , ,
Stockpile - ,
Speed
Acupressure -
Agility - , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
Aqua Step -
Dragon Dance - ,
Flame Charge -
Quiver Dance - , , , , ,
Rapid Spin - , ,
Shell Smash -
Tidy Up -
Trailblaze - , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
Accuracy
Acupressure -
Coil -
Gravity -
Hone Claw - , , ,
Evasion
Acupressure -
Double Team - , , , , ,
Minimize -

Mons like Cyclizar using shed tail for subs are prob pretty good, and With regen for longevity.

 

[Chuka Valentine]

Apologies for my limited understanding, but I'm wondering why evasion, moody, and full BP setups aren't as popular in the current meta. Are there just a lot of effective ways to counter them? And if that's the case, why does Smogon decide to ban these setups in standard play? I'm genuinely interested in learning more and have no intention of belittling Smogon in any way.

 

[MattC (Banned)]

Apologies for my limited understanding, but I'm wondering why evasion, moody, and full BP setups aren't as popular in the current meta. Are there just a lot of effective ways to counter them? And if that's the case, why does Smogon decide to ban these setups in standard play? I'm genuinely interested in learning more and have no intention of belittling Smogon in any way.

Every team NEEDS something to handle these things. Evasion stuff, Baton Pass and Moody isn't really cheesy. It's not even something that can catch you off guard. If you think of it like VGC, you have Shedinja. Shedinja in a restricted format (legendaries allowed but still not mythicals) is actually bonkers strong because as soon as you lack coverage for it you just lose ince it can outdamage you. Granted any form of chip and a ton of common spread moves can hit it but the point remains - once the counter is removed, the thing runs wild. That's the reason Basculegion is so good. A combination of not so bulky Dark types, mediocre Normal types, and forcing a tera as a reaction makes it one of the best cleaners in this metagame only behind the competition being Kingambit.

These strats aren't common in the higher ladder because everyone is prepared for it, but the people that can use it well will straight up dismantle teams in an instant.

 

[Chuka Valentine]

Every team NEEDS something to handle these things. Evasion stuff, Baton Pass and Moody isn't really cheesy. It's not even something that can catch you off guard. If you think of it like VGC, you have Shedinja. Shedinja in a restricted format (legendaries allowed but still not mythicals) is actually bonkers strong because as soon as you lack coverage for it you just lose ince it can outdamage you. Granted any form of chip and a ton of common spread moves can hit it but the point remains - once the counter is removed, the thing runs wild. That's the reason Basculegion is so good. A combination of not so bulky Dark types, mediocre Normal types, and forcing a tera as a reaction makes it one of the best cleaners in this metagame only behind the competition being Kingambit.

These strats aren't common in the higher ladder because everyone is prepared for it, but the people that can use it well will straight up dismantle teams in an instant.

Thank you for the information. After further exploration of the tier, I was astounded yet unsurprised to find an overwhelming number of individuals employing Basculegion HO strategies. The available dependable measures to counteract strategies like Moody or Baton Pass teams are so effective that it seems more practical to rely on what guarantees consistent results, namely HO. The diminished potency of defensive teams in this generation further compounds the situation. However, this interpretation is just my personal understanding of the situation.

 

[KataphraktoiUntaken]

Just making a driveby post from a longtime lurker. Warning, Opinions ahead.

I was very excited to see Freedom Cup initial, as the initial release week of SV OU was one of the best and definitly most fun metagames of pokemon that ever existed. Of course, the anti-fun police wont have any of that. However, I was quite surprised to see this tier going fully overboard in the opposite direct, making what seems to be an OU Anything Goes. Strategies like evasion boost or baton pass are so inherently anti-skill that any tier that allows them can never be anything but a goofy sideshow at best. Also, without sleep clause, the game simply isn't playable. With this AG mindset, I would never spend any amount of time on the tier. This is NOT an ultimatum or boycott; I am simply saying I have limited time to allocate and I believe many others wont touch this metagame with a ten foot pole for the same reason. I have glanced at the Freedom Cup several times over last few days and didnt see a single game being played.

Also, the actual effectiveness of baton pass and evasion is simply completely irrelevant. You should never have to consider these strategies or even know about them.

 

[MattC (Banned)]

Just making a driveby post from a longtime lurker. Warning, Opinions ahead.

I was very excited to see Freedom Cup initial, as the initial release week of SV OU was one of the best and definitly most fun metagames of pokemon that ever existed. Of course, the anti-fun police wont have any of that. However, I was quite surprised to see this tier going fully overboard in the opposite direct, making what seems to be an OU Anything Goes. Strategies like evasion boost or baton pass are so inherently anti-skill that any tier that allows them can never be anything but a goofy sideshow at best. Also, without sleep clause, the game simply isn't playable. With this AG mindset, I would never spend any amount of time on the tier. This is NOT an ultimatum or boycott; I am simply saying I have limited time to allocate and I believe many others wont touch this metagame with a ten foot pole for the same reason. I have glanced at the Freedom Cup several times over last few days and didnt see a single game being played.

Also, the actual effectiveness of baton pass and evasion is simply completely irrelevant. You should never have to consider these strategies or even know about them.

As someone who got 1500 on the Anything Goes ladder in gen 8, I am hurt

 

[Local Dog]

Just making a driveby post from a longtime lurker. Warning, Opinions ahead.

I was very excited to see Freedom Cup initial, as the initial release week of SV OU was one of the best and definitly most fun metagames of pokemon that ever existed. Of course, the anti-fun police wont have any of that. However, I was quite surprised to see this tier going fully overboard in the opposite direct, making what seems to be an OU Anything Goes. Strategies like evasion boost or baton pass are so inherently anti-skill that any tier that allows them can never be anything but a goofy sideshow at best. Also, without sleep clause, the game simply isn't playable. With this AG mindset, I would never spend any amount of time on the tier. This is NOT an ultimatum or boycott; I am simply saying I have limited time to allocate and I believe many others wont touch this metagame with a ten foot pole for the same reason. I have glanced at the Freedom Cup several times over last few days and didnt see a single game being played.

Also, the actual effectiveness of baton pass and evasion is simply completely irrelevant. You should never have to consider these strategies or even know about them.

So basically


You don't like OU because it's restricted, but once you play AG or Freedom Cup you don't like those because they're unrestricted?

 

[AlexIGuessNotFound]

Checked in and Ladder is dead. I guess allowing banned Pokemon and removing clauses doesn't make for a more engaging Meta. Who would've thought?

 

[Komi028]

Checked in and Ladder is dead. I guess allowing banned Pokemon and removing clauses doesn't make for a more engaging Meta. Who would've thought?

It just needs more publicity, not a lot of people know it exists, I'm sure the people bothered that most of their favorites are gone from OU will love this.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

It just needs more publicity, not a lot of people know it exists, I'm sure the people bothered that most of their favorites are gone from OU will love this.

Freezai is a pretty big figure and so is aim... the ladder dying is prob a meta that isnt fun to play at least more than ou...

 

[GF 66]

Checked in and Ladder is dead. I guess allowing banned Pokemon and removing clauses doesn't make for a more engaging Meta. Who would've thought?

I mean it's moreso that battle stadium singles 3v3 is a decent amount more fun than the 6v6 version.

 

[Komi028]

Freezai is a pretty big figure and so is aim... the ladder dying is prob a meta that isnt fun to play at least more than ou...

Aim's video has only 20k views. We need an actual big youtuber to make a video about this. The hard part is having them figure out this exist.

 

[fiish]

We need an actual big youtuber to make a video about this.

there's like 1 (one) smogontuber with more subscribers than aim, and i don't think we will get some random 1 mil subscriber youtuber to make a video about a fanmade format for battling creatures

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Aim's video has only 20k views. We need an actual big youtuber to make a video about this. The hard part is having them figure out this exist.

ok... then who is gonna be more popular than aim that is gonna post and its gonna gain the traction we need....