SS UU First team in this new meta

[Just_Aaron]

Introduction
I'm all in for how previous lower tier mons are now in higher tiers, in this case, Incineroar and Palossand. Also I really like defensive Jirachi (for some reason lol). So I tried to build a team surrounding that idea. But since I'm not a experienced UU player and the meta suffered severe changes Post-DLC, I make this thread to receive advices and make the changes needed for the team to work. Thanks in advance!
The team

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Iron Head
- U-turn

Jirachi's role it's to provide recovery in the form of Wish and check powerful special attackers in Gardevoir, Kyurem and Indeedee, and being a solid defensive mon in general. Protect allows Jirachi to both scout the opponent's moves, gain a round of Leftovers and use Wish on itself safely. Iron Head is STAB and alongside Serene Grace it results in a move with a 60% chance of flinching, and deals super-effective damage to the Fairies and Ice-types that Jirachi would switch into. U-turn let's it escape from unfavourable match-ups, as well as escape from the rare Magneton. 216 Speed with a Jolly nature are enough to outsped Timid Kyurem and Indeedee, while 40 Atk guarantees the 2HKO on Specs Kyurem. The rest goes in HP to increase Jirachi's overall bulk and increasing the amount of recovery that Wish would restore to its teammates.

Incineroar (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 108 Def / 68 SpD / 84 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Fire Blast
- Parting Shot
- Will-O-Wisp

Incineroar's role is to check dangerous Ghost-types in Chandelure, Doublade, Mimikyu and Polteageist abd Steels like Bronzong, Escavalier and Jirachi (lacking Aura Sphere). It's powerful Knock Off deals a good amount of damage while also removing the items of the opponent. Parting Shot allow Roar to act as a pivot and lowering the foes' attacking stats so that his teammates could switch in more easily. I prefer Fire Blast over Flare Blitz to deal more damage to Doublade, Skarmory and Cobalion. In the last slot, I decided to use Will-O-Wisp to cripple Fighting-type that switch into Incineroar. The spread its fairly standard: outspeed base 70s like Mantine and Skarmory, survive two Close Combat from Doublade and Escavalier after Intimidate.

Palossand (M) @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball
- Shore Up

Palossand's amazing physical defense and great defensive typing let it check some of the strongest wallbreakers in the tier, mainly Terrakion and Lycanroc-D, but it also extents to Cobalion and Lucario (It also walls Toxtricity). Stealth Rocks can help his teammates to break through the opposing team more easily. Earth Power is chosen over Scorching Sands for a bite of extra power, 2HKOing Shuca Berry Cobalion. Shore Up gives Palossand reliable recovery. Shadow Ball is chosen for the last slot as good neutral STAB to damage mons immune to Ground.

Whimsicott (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Giga Drain
- Psychic
- U-turn

Whimsicott's amazing speed tier lets it acts as a good Specs attacker. It's main role is to deal with Krookodile, Keldeo and Crawdaunt (and Sharpedo lacking and Ice move). Moonblast it's STAB that has a good BP and deals with Fighting and Dark-types. Giga Drain provides Whimsicott with a form of recovery that also deal with the aforementioned Waters and Grounds. Psychic its to hit Poison-types like Weezing-G, Toxtricity and Tentacruel wanting to switch into Whimsicott's STABs. U-turn allows Whimsicott to keep momentum against counters and bring its teammates safely.

Heliolisk (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Hyper Voice
- Grass Knot
- Volt Switch

Heliolisk was added as another (less reliable admitely) check to Crawdaunt and Keldeo thanks to Dry Skin and its amazing speed. It also deals with Scyther, Skarmory, Slowking and Tentacruel. Hyper Voice its a good STAB moves that lets him hit neutral targets. Grass Knot hits Ground-types like Rhydon, Krookodile and Seismitoad super-effectively. Volt Switch its there to form a VoltTurn core with the rest of his teammates. Life Orb is the item of choice to OHKO Keldeo with Thunderbolt while letting him switch moves (and it can recover HP with Dry Skin and Jirachi's Wishes)

Heracross (M) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Facade
- Knock Off

Heracross it's the physical wallbreakers (Which my team sorely lacks, since Jirachi and Incineroar go without atk investment) and it's typing let it deal with Dark-types like Krookodile, Pangoro and Tyranitar (It can also take a Banded Aqua Jet from Crawdaunt in a pinch). Close Combat cleaves through almost any pokemon that doesn't resist it (Even max defense Skarmory gets OHKO after a Swords Dance). Facade nails the bulky Psychic- and Fairy-types that try to switch into CC. Knock Off hits Ghost-types that are immune to Heracross' other moves, as well as remove the HDB from Flying-types like Scyther. Guts gives Heracross a useful immunity to status.

 

[Just_Aaron]

I think I'd make use of my one and only: bump.

 

[pokemonisfun]

I would consider changing Whimsicott to Rotom-C and then make Heliolisk a Starmie.

This is the Rotom-C set

the GRIN is IN (Rotom-Mow) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

So you're even faster now and still keep the Volt-Turn combo your team has going. You're still actually basically stronger than Whimsicott even without Choice Specs since Leaf Storm has such high base power and you can pressure Steel types a bit more now, especially Skarmory.

I'm not exactly sure what Starmie set to run but you need Rapid Spin, your team is pretty weak to hazards and you'd likely have a very tough match up vs any team that uses Toxic Spikes or Spikes. Starmie also would be a great Keldeo check, which you need after getting rid of Whimsicott.

If you make these changes let me know how the team goes, it seems pretty solid, I think the Wish Jirachi + good walls + a couple breakers with varied typing throughout is a very strong idea right now.

If I'm online PS as pokemonisfun or pif you can always message me for tests.

 

[Wigglytuff]

damn it pif :(

yahallo!

As is, the team doesn't do too badly. I tested it out on high ladder (starting at 1579) and went 7-3. Unfortunately, there are some weaknesses to top meta threats/cores that, in order to outplay, require a lot of prediction. The team is also a little slow - in particular, there are no mons faster than Noivern, and there is very little in the way of Noivern answers (this is the only game where I successfully beat a Noivern, all the other I straight up lost). The same could be said for Talonflame, which is picking up a little on the ladder.

No hazard removal is also a bit of a problem. I didn't play any games where this came up, but I could definitely see a problem in Bulky Offense matchups where opponents are packing Spikes or Toxic Spikes in addition to Rocks. With some prediction from the opponent, the two main breakers (Heracross and Specs Whimsicott) could very easily get worn down by hazards and other chip and it's not easy to pass Wishes to them.

I'm going to try to patch up these issues with this rate.

Major Changes:
->
BW/BW2 were some of my favorite Pokemon games thanks in small part to Whimsicott. Unfortunately, I don't think it works in UU as a breaker. It's simply too weak to grab all the KOs it needs. For example, Specs Moonblast will never knock out Cobalion from full, while Cobalion has a decent chance of KOing with Iron Head. Ditto with Psychic on Weezing-G, even some offensive variants. It's also completely walled by Jirachi, one of the premier threats in the tier. I contemplated a SubSeed set instead, but I don't think that would net much better results without restructuring the entire team.

There's two other Grass-types in the tier that could work: Roserade and Rotom-C. I elected (as pif did :angery:) to go with Rotom-C since that also gives this team a Ground immune (Whimsicott doesn't count even as a resist, you'll be taking 35-40 from Krookodile Earthquake). I did think about Specs to serve as a breaker like Whimsicott, but Scarf outspeeds so many great threats (all non scarfed Noivern, Keldeo, Krook). You do miss out on some power against Cobalion, but with Palossand and the new mon for Heliolisk, I think you're fine on that front.

Set

Rotom-Mow @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

Just standard Scarf Mowtom. You're going to have to be careful about switching into threats since Rotom-C isn't the most bulky mon ever (especially if you predict Krookodile to Earthquake and eat a Knock Off and lose your Scarf) but it functions fantastically as a revenge killer. Trick is useful for handling defensive walls, particularly Blissey.


->
I like the Lisk and it's not a bad pick for this team, but we need hazard removal and it's the easiest mon to replace. Thankfully, Noivern checks a lot of the same threats that Heliolisk did, such as Keldeo, Scyther, Skarm, etc. It also fares a better than Heliolisk against Cobalion, which is a bit of a threat if it just flinches down Palossand and Rotom-C can't revenge kill.

Set

Noivern @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 144 HP / 112 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Defog
- Roost

Pretty typical Noivern set. 144 HPs are to always live Adamant Guts Burned Heracross Facade from full. You don't kill back with Draco or Flame from full, but rarely will a Heracross be at full health anyway. I picked specifically Heracross as the benchmark as a late game Heracross might cause problems, especially if Palossand is down. There's a lot of EV wizardry you could do with Noivern though so have at it.

I usually like to run Frisk on Noivern to scout out weird sets, but since Noivern is kind of what we're banking on to check Keldeo, I chose Infiltrator to do heavy damage to SubCM variants. If it's not Sub, Rotom-C can handle it.


alternatively: ->
pif made a cool suggestion of Starmie > Heliolisk in the post above. I honestly hadn't thought of Starmie but it's definitely worth taking a look at.

I think an offensive set is out of the question. There is very little counterplay to Keldeo if it manages to get behind a sub (which it does vs Incineroar and probably the sand castle too) other than going hard Starmie, which will take almost half from Hydro. If Starmie doesn't have Recover, it'll get worn down very quickly and if we already have Recover and Rapid Spin, we might as well make it fully defensive.

Set

Starmie @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt / Scald
- Psyshock
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

There's a lot to get into about this set:
Psyshock always 2HKOs uninvested Keldeo and barring some magical crits, this Starmie should always be able to beat SubCM if you go hard into Starmie on Keld. Switching into Specs Keld is tricky because Starmie still takes ~75, though. It should also be noted that there is a pretty big Crawdaunt weakness on the team now since Scald doesn't do a ton of damage, so I switched out Scald for Thunderbolt. It unfortunately doesn't kill from full, but should after Rocks + Life Orb chip.

The slashed options are what I've thought of to get Starmie to work a little better. Life Orb buffs up its damage output (always killing the Crawdaunt with Tbolt, doing up to 90% to Keldeo with Psyshock, for example), but you lose out on being able to avoid chip damage from hazards. Starmie is somewhat frail so this could be a big deal if not played properly.

Overall I don't think I'd recommend Starmie. It's too frail to be great defensively and once you start sacrificing some bulk to beef up its power, you start to lose the ability to switch into Keldeo, which is a major threat for this team. I'll post a version with Starmie if that's the route you want to go, though.


Minor Changes:

Scorching Sands > Earth Power
The 30% burn chance outweighs the small difference in power IMO. The benchmark you posted (2hkoing Shuca Cobalion) is nice, but Cobalion isn't a huge threat to the sand castle anyway. I'm also not sure what the 48 Speed is for - from a glance at the Speed tiers, you're creeping 44 Speed Doublade? Doublade typically carries Shadow Sneak as its only Ghost STAB anyway so I'm not sure if those EVs are achieving much. I've left them as is in the pastes below, but I would reinvest those into bulk if there isn't a speed tier you're looking to hit.


Threatlist:
Keldeo:

1. If using the Noivern team: just don't take chip with Noivern and try to avoid getting Boots knocked off, since it's pretty difficult to take Rocks and a boosted Hydro Pump. It will take some playing around to really defeat but it's definitely a manageable matchup.
2. If using the Starmie team: be very very careful with chip on Starmie, especially if you're not using Boots. Specs Hydro still does at least 70% and unboosted still does almost half.

Crawdaunt:

1. If using the Noivern team: Noivern can't switch into Knock Off (I learned this the hard way because I didn't calc) so your best bet is playing aggressively and not letting Daunt get in on Sand or Incineroar for free.
2. If using the Starmie team: Starmie doesn't exactly switch in either (you take Liquidation/Crabhammer into Aqua Jet comfortably but Knock Off literally does 200). Tbolt-less Starmie is easy pickings for Crawdaunt, so I'd probably use Thunderbolt.

Noivern:
The Noivern Matchup is still a little iffy, but Rotom-C outspeeds and does good damage and Noivern can speed tie in a pinch. Otherwise, Wisping it with Incineroar and WishTect stalling with Jirachi is how I deal with it.

Mamoswine:
It'll take some pivoting around Earthquake and Icicle Crash/Shard, but with Jirachi and Heracross, it's a manageable matchup.


Importables (click on the sprites!):



Let me know if you have any questions and have fun!

 

[Just_Aaron]

Thanks to both you for the advice guys! Appreciated!