Pokémon Eldegoss

[Eeveeto]

Cute cotton is here!

Base Stats: 60 HP | 50 Atk | 90 Def | 80 SpA | 120 SpD | 60 Spe
Abilities: Cotton Down | Regenerator | Effect Spore (H)



All Moves

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Level Up Moves:

- [00] Cotton Spore
- [01] Cotton Spore
- [01] Leafage
- [01] Sing
- [01] Rapid Spin
- [01] Sweet Scent
- [12] Razor Leaf
- [16] Round
- [23] Leaf Tornado
- [28] Synthesis
- [34] Hyper Voice
- [40] Aromatherapy
- [46] Leaf Storm
- [52] Cotton Guard

TMs:

- [TM08] Hyper Beam
- [TM09] Giga Impact
- [TM10] Magical Leaf
- [TM11] Solar Beam
- [TM17] Light Screen
- [TM21] Rest
- [TM24] Snore
- [TM25] Protect
- [TM28] Giga Drain
- [TM29] Charm
- [TM31] Attract
- [TM34] Sunny Day
- [TM39] Facade
- [TM41] Helping Hand
- [TM46] Weather Ball
- [TM50] Bullet Seed
- [TM76] Round
- [TM88] Grassy Terrain

TRs:

- [TR20] Substitute
- [TR26] Endure
- [TR27] Sleep Talk
- [TR42] Hyper Voice
- [TR59] Seed Bomb
- [TR65] Energy Ball
- [TR71] Leaf Storm
- [TR77] Grass Knot
- [TR96] Pollen Puff


Egg Moves:

- Growth
- Leech Seed
- Worry Seed
- Poison Powder
- Stun Spore
- Sleep Powder

Notable Moves
-Giga Drain
-Energy Ball
-Rapid Spin
-Synthesis
-Aromatherapy
-Sleep Powder
-Stun Spore
-Leech Seed
-Pollen Puff

New Ability

Cotton Down: Lowers Speed of all Pokemon except itself when hit by an attack.


Pros:
-Decent defensive Typing.
-Good Special Bulk and decente physical one.
-Regenerator is an amazing ability. Apart from Eldegoss, only Reuniclus and Toxapex have it.
-Good supporting Movepool, being able to function as a cleric, spinner and status spreader.
-The bad Speed it has actually helps in Ferro match-ups, since it alleviates the damage taken by Gyro Ball as a result of the Speed increase due to using Rapid Spin.


Cons:
-Extremely passive and weak offensively. Lacks Toxic.
-As a result of the former, lacks means to Spin against most Ghosts, even against Pdef Jellicent. The only ghosts against which it can win are Golurk, Runerigus and Shedinja (but only if it has Leech Seed or Poison Powder).
-As a defensive Grass, faces competition with Ferrothorn, Shiinotic, Vileplume, Gourgeist and Dhelmise (which also Spins and can,t be blocked by other Ghosts).

Dynamaxing Potential:

Only in desperate situation it could be an option for that. Its really passive, so it could only help against an opposing Dynamax sweeper like NP Rotom-W or a (very weakened) Excadrill/Rhyperior.

Potential Moveset:

Eldegoss @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Giga Drain / Energy Ball
- Rapid Spin
- Synthesis/ Sleep Powder / Aromatherapy
- Synthesis/ Sleep Powder / Aromatherapy

Its easy to see the main role of Eldegoss, a Grass Spinner. Don,t use Eldegoss without Rapid Spin, there are lots of Grass Types that are less passive. Giga Drain as a STAB Move fits more in Stall teams (the main archetype where you would use the Cotton Flower), however Energy Ball hits harder and always 2HKOs Rotom-W and Runerigus ( if it ever becomes common) as well as OHKOs Barraskewda (which Eldegoss reliably checks unless Poison Jab). The rest of the Moveset are bonus moves: Synthesis helps Eldegoss last longer should it be stalling a poisoned/burnt foe. Sleep Powder helps bring a teammate reliably. Not may Clerics are in the game right now, so having Aromatherapy is useful. The EV Spread maximizes the weaker Defense Stats in order to check better physical Waters, Grounds and Rocks. The Special Defense is still high enough to stop things like Rotom-W.

Eldegoss fits in Stall and some balanced teams. Toxapex and Corviknight are amazing partners, as they have perfect defensive Synergy. Corviknight also helps to win Hazard Wars, since it switches into Hazard Setters that Eldegoss can,t beat (Clefable with CM, Toxic Bronzong, Kommo-o, etc.). Other good partners are Mandibuzz and Umbreon, since they beat ghosts. In Balanced teams, teammates that apreciate Sleep Powder, Rapid Spin or Aromatherapy support are good options.

Other Options:

-A SDef EV Spread. It will be worse against Ferrothorn, though.
-Leech Seed and Stun Spore can be used instead of Sleep Powder to annoy non-grass foes.
-Pollen Puff to damage Grass types... However its weak and won,t help against the most common one ( Ferrothorn) unless it loses Leftovers.
-Poison Powder to poison Ghosts. Won,t work against Aegislash, Gengar and Grass types, so usually not worth it.
-Sing to Sleep Grass Types in theory... In practice it will always miss and you deserve to lose if you use that.
-Rocky Helmet to be similar to Tangrowth.
-Grassy Terrain + Terrain Extender to disrupt EQ and set-up some kind of Grass SPAM or Unburden Strategies.
-Charm to Stop set-up sweepers.
-If you use Eldegoss in some kind of Sun Stall, Weather Ball 2HKOs Ferrothorn and deals respectable damage to other Grass Types.

Final Thoughts:

This is not a Tangrowth and this is not an Amoonguss. Lets make that clear. Its frailer than both of them on the Physical side (but bulkier on the special one) and its way more passive. It can,t be slapped on most teams, its very passive and Set-up bait of many sweepers. However, it fills an unique niche of a durable Grass Type Spinner as well as a Cleric and a reliable mixed wall and pivot. It beats prominent Hazard Setters like Hippowdon, Rhyperior, Tyranitar, Lead Drill, Seismitoad and Gyroless Ferro, having a decent chance even against Gyro Ball ones. Its a more reliable switch-in to Barraskewda than Ferro or Toxapex, since the fish has to use its worst move to beat it (Poison Jab). I don,t see Eldegoss as an OU Mon, but I do see it as a more than viable Mon in the Tier. If Viability Rankings are made soon, I see it as a solid C+ rank, maybe even higher if Dinamax is banned.

 

[GaileOxstain]

How about a sub-seed set? Is it bulky enough or fast enough to pull that off?

 

[Darvin]

The biggest thing that interests me about Eldegoss is its access to Sleep Powder. Access to sleep-inducing moves is very, very limited this generation, with only a total of 1 fully-evolved pokemon with spore and 6 others who get Sleep Powder. Hypnosis has slightly better distribution, with 23 pokemon, but with 60% accuracy it's super inconsistent. The pokemon who get it either have no business being in OU in the first place or have something better to run. There is no Sleep Clause in generation 8 as of yet, and with sleep being so limited it may very well stay that way in OU, so I wanted to give this thing a shot... and it has no way to touch other grass types. Rapid Spin, Leech Seed, and Sleep Powder on a regenerator pokemon all look great in paper, but Ferrothorn answers all of the above with ease and with hidden power gone Eldegoss has no response.

I could see Eldegoss having a role on sun teams, since it does get weather ball. A set of Sunny Day, Sleep Powder, Rapid Spin, and Weather Ball could have huge role compression. It sets sun, can safely run a heat rock while staying healthy due to regeneration, it spins, it beats Ferrothorn with weather ball, and Sleep Powder makes it hard to play around. However, with no OU-relevant chlorophyll users released yet and fast Max Geyser users around every corner I don't think this is anything more than a gimmick right now. It might have a niche after some bans or Pokemon Home, though.

 

[Eeveeto]

Rapid Spin, Leech Seed, and Sleep Powder on a regenerator pokemon all look great in paper, but Ferrothorn answers all of the above with ease and with hidden power gone Eldegoss has no response.

It doesn,t have to beat Ferrothorn, though, just outstall his Hazards. And with Synthesis, it can do that:

0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 118-141 (36.5 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 47-56 (14.5 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO

Eldegoss has enough health to outstall both max power Gyro Ball and Power Whip, and enough Rapid Spin PPs to outstall both Rocks AND Spikes. Ferrothorn alone doesn,t beat Eldegoss unless:
1: It has Knock Off + Gyro Ball. Knock Off has too many PPs, so Eldegoss ends up wasting all his Synthesis PPs since not only it won,t heal from Lefties, it will also damage itself with Iron Barbs. Still, by switching out and returning, Eldegoss will still be able to get the job done.
2: It has Curse. This one always wins, but will have to give an important slot in order to beat Eldegoss.
3: It has Toxic. Not common, but exists. Toxic has more PPs than Aromatherapy, so Ferro will win the 1vs1.

Of course, Ferrothorn + Ghost not named Rinerigus, Shedinja or Golurk will beat Eldegoss and that the reason I wrote that Eldegoss needs another hazard remover in the team in order to succeed.


My point is, that while it has ways to win with teammates and rare moves, standart Ferrothorn alone is useless against the cotton ball.
Also, all of the above Ferro will lose against Eldegoss paired with BU or Taunt Corviknight (with Defog). Thats why teammates exist.

 

[Darvin]

It doesn,t have to beat Ferrothorn, though, just outstall his Hazards. And with Synthesis, it can do that:

Interesting; I had to test it in-game because Iron Barbs and Leftovers makes the interactions a little complex, but it does seem like physically-defensive Eldegoss can PP stall a single-attack Ferrothorn set. However, with 2 attacks Ferrothorn can run Eldegoss out of Synthesis, at which point you either stop spinning or let him keep his hazards up: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8oubeta-1012198535 (this was 252 HP / 252+ Def on both sides). So I guess it really depends on how common 1-attack Ferrothorn sets are. With that said, I think you'd annoy your opponent into switching out without having hazards up long before you got to this point :-P

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

STag is banned, you should probably remove any references to Goth.

 

[onatolentino]

So, is this the best rapid spinner right now, besides Excadrill?

 

[Darvin]

So, is this the best rapid spinner right now, besides Excadrill?

Sleep Clause was reinstated; Eldegoss is not OU viable in my opinion.

Rapid Spin in general is very unreliable in the current meta since ghost-types are running rampant. Even Excadrill mostly runs it for the speed boost since you take a huge risk on losing momentum if you go for Rapid Spin and get called on it.

 

[onatolentino]

Sleep Clause was reinstated; Eldegoss is not OU viable in my opinion.

Rapid Spin in general is very unreliable in the current meta since ghost-types are running rampant. Even Excadrill mostly runs it for the speed boost since you take a huge risk on losing momentum if you go for Rapid Spin and get called on it.

So, if I want to protect my sashed mon from hazards I have to go for a Defog mon rn then? And remove my own hazards in the process.

 

[Darvin]

So, if I want to protect my sashed mon from hazards I have to go for a Defog mon rn then? And remove my own hazards in the process.

Yeah, Defog Corviknight seems to be the go-to hazard control on teams that need it right now.

Keep in mind that Sash won't save you from bulk up sweepers, which are really popular since they don't struggle with Ditto, so I personally would advise against relying on sash, even if you do run sufficient hazard control.

 

[Muhznit]

I'd just like to call attention to the fact that Eldegoss has some interesting synergies with the Eject Button and Eject Pack items.

• Eject Button triggers after Cotton Down, so you can have Eldegoss get hit by literally any attack, and get a free switch to something that can take advantage.
• Eject Pack can be manually triggered via Leaf Storm. That subsequently triggers Regenerator, meaning you can fire off a Leaf Storm, get rid of the stat loss, regain a little lost HP, and get a free switch-in.

I'm not sure how useful strats involving those mechanics can be but I think they're at least worth noting.

 

[Eeveeto]

I'd just like to call attention to the fact that Eldegoss has some interesting synergies with the Eject Button and Eject Pack items.

• Eject Button triggers after Cotton Down, so you can have Eldegoss get hit by literally any attack, and get a free switch to something that can take advantage.
• Eject Pack can be manually triggered via Leaf Storm. That subsequently triggers Regenerator, meaning you can fire off a Leaf Storm, get rid of the stat loss, regain a little lost HP, and get a free switch-in.

I'm not sure how useful strats involving those mechanics can be but I think they're at least worth noting.

Good ideas, but Cotton Down is not worth it. With Regenerator, however, Eject Button has been a decent item for like 3 Gens, especially with Trappers, being Dugtrio allowed right now. Eldegoss can switch into something like Excadrill, Toxtricity or even Cinderace if not Band and Eldegoss PDef, and switch reliable to Dugtrio, who proceeds to kill those threats.

 

[Muhznit]

Good ideas, but Cotton Down is not worth it. With Regenerator, however, Eject Button has been a decent item for like 3 Gens, especially with Trappers, being Dugtrio allowed right now. Eldegoss can switch into something like Excadrill, Toxtricity or even Cinderace if not Band and Eldegoss PDef, and switch reliable to Dugtrio, who proceeds to kill those threats.

Are there specific reasons Cotton Down is not worth it or is it more of a "No one has bothered using it to find how situational it actually is since it's such a new ability and people tend to gravitate to the more familiar Regenerator" kind of thing? Aside from the mention in the first post, I'm the only one that's said anything about Cotton Down in this thread so far... not to mention that the two abilities don't seem reasonably comparable given that they do entirely different things with different triggers. I can see an ability like Ball Fetch being not worth it since it literally has no effect in competitive, but if -1 Speed on switch in can give Sticky Web a niche, I'm not so sure -1 speed on just getting hit should be so swiftly discounted.

 

[Darvin]

Are there specific reasons Cotton Down is not worth it or is it more of a "No one has bothered using it to find how situational it actually is since it's such a new ability and people tend to gravitate to the more familiar Regenerator" kind of thing?

Cotton Down + Eject Button into Dugtrio is probably workable, but you're devoting 1/3rd of your team to pulling that off. Eldegoss itself is too passive to take advantage of this so you need Eject Button to get the automatic switch, and without Dugtrio to trap your opponent they will just switch out. This also leaves you with a pretty worthless team member; without Regenerator or Leftovers Eldegoss will get worn down incredibly quickly since it simply won't find the turns to use Synthesis consistently.

I'm not so sure -1 speed on just getting hit should be so swiftly discounted.

Eldegoss is a defensive Pokemon with no meaningful offensive pressure. Against many threats all it can do is use Sleep Powder. The primary reason you run a pokemon like this is because it's hard to KO. If you aren't running Regenerator, that directly compromises its role in your team. The only reason you'd run Cotton Down is if you have a specific combo that your entire game plan revolves around, so it's hyper-niche. Eldegoss is very rare on the ladder, but on the few occasions I have seen it relies quite heavily on Regenerator to actually do anything.

 

[MrHands]

Cotton Down is trash. If you want to use Eject Button + Dugtrio that pairs far better with Regenerator.

 

[Muhznit]

Cotton Down + Eject Button into Dugtrio is probably workable, but you're devoting 1/3rd of your team to pulling that off. Eldegoss itself is too passive to take advantage of this so you need Eject Button to get the automatic switch, and without Dugtrio to trap your opponent they will just switch out. This also leaves you with a pretty worthless team member; without Regenerator or Leftovers Eldegoss will get worn down incredibly quickly since it simply won't find the turns to use Synthesis consistently.


Eldegoss is a defensive Pokemon with no meaningful offensive pressure. Against many threats all it can do is use Sleep Powder. The primary reason you run a pokemon like this is because it's hard to KO. If you aren't running Regenerator, that directly compromises its role in your team. The only reason you'd run Cotton Down is if you have a specific combo that your entire game plan revolves around, so it's hyper-niche. Eldegoss is very rare on the ladder, but on the few occasions I have seen it relies quite heavily on Regenerator to actually do anything.

Cotton Down is trash. If you want to use Eject Button + Dugtrio that pairs far better with Regenerator.

Good to know Smogon's as polarized in levels of detail for its analyses as ever. Thanks for the explanation at least.

 

[MrHands]

Good to know Smogon's as polarized in levels of detail for its analyses as ever. Thanks for the explanation at least.

Not really. Goodra had Gooey and yes people did use it early on. But experience showed that the grass immunity given by Sap Sipper was far more useful even when Goodra can't exploit the attack boost. Sap Sipper wasn't great but it was still better than a situational speed debuff.

Eldegoss actually has an incredibly good ability in Regenerator so it certainly will be the go-to ability to use.

A speed debuff is MUCH weaker than a 33% passive recovery. If you really want to slow the opponent down use Sticky Web. There isn't much to say, it's just flat out worse. It doesn't take extensive testing to come to this conclusion.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Good to know Smogon's as polarized in levels of detail for its analyses as ever. Thanks for the explanation at least.

If it's any consolation, Cotton Down is likely useful in doubles, for the same reason Icy Wind is useful in doubles. It hits both opponents, and you can have another Pokemon on the field to pick up the slack offensively. Though it's of course dependent on getting hit, and Eldegoss doesn't have many options to pressure the opponent into attacking it...

 

[Robot7620]

Couldn't one of the movesets be smthing like SDef w/ Cotton Guard making it bulky as hell

 

[earl]

Couldn't one of the movesets be smthing like SDef w/ Cotton Guard making it bulky as hell

And do what with all of that bulk? It’s super passive and will never get past something like Ferrothorn (or Haze Toxapex)

 

[MrHands]

I want to say this would make a nice Assault Vest user with Giga Drain and Rapid Spin but its offensive moves pretty much stop there. I guess it has Pollen Puff and Weather Ball lol.

But it would lose out on support moves like Leech Seed and Stun Spore so it probably isn't worth it.