Resource Doubles Overview, Rules, and Q&A - Ask Questions Here! (Resource Index Inside)

Arcticblast

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Short answer: no.

Long answer: Better bulk and Attack, Fake Out, U-turn, and the Dark typing make Incineroar considerably better than Arcanine. Incineroar’s extra utility moves and extra resistances afforded by the second type make it an excellent pivot, which plays far better to the strength of Intimidate. They also “unlock” Assault Vest, which Arcanine has a hard time running due to its reliance on Wisp and/or Morning Sun. Incineroar is able to play far more aggressively as a result.
 

Arcticblast

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since this isn't really apt for the suspect thread or the tournament signup thread, I'm sticking this here: a list of notable moves by first letter for Alphabet Cup.

Moves denoted with an asterisk(*) are extremely limited - for example, Fusion Bolt is only on Victini, Kyurem-B, and Smeargle.
Moves in bold are potentially important.
A:
Acid Spray, Acrobatics, After You, Air Slash, Ally Switch, Aqua Tail, Aura Sphere, Aurora Veil

B:
Baton Pass, Beat Up, Belly Drum, Blizzard, Blue Flare*, Bolt Strike*, Boomburst, Brave Bird, Bug Bite, Bug Buzz, Bulldoze, Bullet Punch

C:
Calm Mind, Charge Beam, Circle Throw, Clanging Scales*, Close Combat, Cosmic Power, Counter, Cross Chop, Crunch, Curse

D:
Dark Pulse, Dark Void*, Darkest Lariat*, Dazzling Gleam, Defog, Destiny Bond, Detect, Diamond Storm*, Disable, Discharge, Double-Edge, Draco Meteor, Dragon Claw, Dragon Dance, Dragon Pulse, Dragon Tail, Drain Punch, Drill Peck, Drill Run

E:
Earth Power, Earthquake, Electro Ball, Electroweb, Encore, Endeavor, Endure, Energy Ball, Eruption, Explosion, Extreme Speed*

F:
Facade, Fake Out, Fake Tears, Feint, Fiery Dance*, Final Gambit, Fire Blast, Fire Punch, Flamethrower, Flare Blitz, Flash Cannon, Focus Blast, Follow Me, Foul Play, Freeze Shock*, Fusion Bolt*, Fusion Flare*

G:
Giga Drain, Glare, Grass Knot, Guard Split, Gunk Shot, Gyro Ball

H:
Hammer Arm, Haze, Head Smash, Heal Pulse, Healing Wish, Heat Wave, Heavy Slam, Helping Hand, Hidden Power, High Horsepower, High Jump Kick, Hone Claws, Horn Leech, Hurricane, Hydro Pump, Hyperspace Fury*, Hyperspace Hole*, Hypnosis

I:
Ice Beam, Ice Punch, Ice Shard, Icicle Crash, Icy Wind, Imprison, Incinerate, Infestation, Instruct, Iron Head

J:
only two moves: Judgment and Jump Kick

K:
only four moves: Karate Chop, Kinesis, King's Shield, Knock Off

L:
Last Resort, Leaf Blade, Leaf Storm, Leech Life, Leech Seed, Light Screen, Liquidation, Lovely Kiss, Low Kick, Lunar Dance*, Lunge

M:
Mach Punch, Magic Coat, Magma Storm*, Me First, Megahorn, Memento, Meteor Mash, Mind Blown*, Mirror Coat, Moonblast, Moonlight, Morning Sun, Muddy Water

N:
Nasty Plot, Nature Power, Nature's Madness*, Night Shade, Nuzzle

O:
only three that are even legal: Octazooka, Outrage, Overheat

P:
Pain Split, Parting Shot*, Payback, Perish Song, Petal Blizzard, Photon Geyser*, Plasma Fists*, Play Rough, Pluck, Poison Jab, Pollen Puff*, Power Trick, Power Whip, Power-up Punch, Protect, Psych Up, Psychic, Psycho Boost*, Psycho Cut, Psyshock, Psywave, Punishment, Pursuit

Q:
only four: Quash, Quick Attack, Quick Guard, Quiver Dance

R:
Rage Powder, Recover, Recycle, Reflect, Relic Song*, Rest, Return, Revelation Dance*, Roar, Rock Slide, Rock Tomb, Roost

S:
Sacred Fire*, Safeguard, Scald, Secret Sword*, Seed Bomb, Seed Flare*, Seismic Toss, Shadow Ball, Shadow Claw, Shadow Sneak, Shell Smash, Signal Beam, Skill Swap, Sky Drop, Sky Uppercut, Slack Off, Sleep Powder, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, Smart Strike, Snarl, Snatch, Soak, Soft-Boiled, Spiky Shield*, Spore, Spotlight, Stealth Rock, Steam Eruption*, Sticky Web, Stomping Tantrum, Stone Edge, Stored Power, Strength Sap*, Substitute, Sucker Punch, Super Fang, Superpower, Surf, Switcheroo, Swords Dance, Synthesis

T:
Tail Glow, Tailwind, Taunt, Teeter Dance, Telekinesis, Thousand Arrows*, Throat Chop, Thunder, Thunder Punch, Thunder Wave, Thunderbolt, Toxic, Transform, Trick, Trick Room

U:
only two: U-turn, Uproar

V:
V-Create*, Vacuum Wave, Volt Switch, Volt Tackle*

W:
Water Shuriken*, Water Spout, Water Fall, Whirlwind, Wide Guard, Wild Charge, Will-o-Wisp, Wish, Wood Hammer, Work Up

X:
just X-Scissor

Y:
just Yawn

Z:
only three: Zap Cannon, Zen Headbutt, Zing Zap*
 

Yoda2798

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Posting here since this is where Arcticblast put his thing. I made a program you can use to check if your team is valid for Alphabet Cup (in terms of not having more than one move starting with the same letter). It lists the conflicting moves, as well as used and unused letters. There is a readme and a copy of Arctic's move list at the side. To use, click run and copy the pokepast url, e.g. https://pokepast.es/56b2ba1e22bc9456 (using just the code at the end will also still work), then press enter and the program should give you an output like this:
team code 2.png

Link to the OUTDATED program: https://repl.it/@Yoda2798/DOU-Alphabet-Cup-Team-Checker

Edit: Due to an improvement by the brilliant sasa, now you can just enter the full url of the pokepast rather than just the end part.

Edit a year later: I made a better, more user-friendly version to improve my Javascript skills: https://alphabet-cup-team-checker-js.yoda2798.repl.co/. Also, a note for any lost souls stumbling across this post, this tool is not just limited to DOU, and can be used for iterations of Alphabet Cup in other tiers as well. If you do use this, I'd be interested to hear about it!
 
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Um. Can I ask questions about team building and for some suggestions here? I've been through like 27 threads in attempt to ask some questions but I'm afraid I cannot find an exact thread.
And I need some double team building help
 

Yuichi

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Um. Can I ask questions about team building and for some suggestions here? I've been through like 27 threads in attempt to ask some questions but I'm afraid I cannot find an exact thread.
And I need some double team building help
You can either make a detailed post on rate my team forums under "sm other teams" or just throw the team in the doubles ou team bazaar for someone to get back for you. However if its only a simple question i think its fine if u just ask it here. Theres also the option of posting a team paste in the pokemon showdown "smogon doubles" room, and/or asking for help there, u are more likely to get a reply sooner if u post it in the chatroom. Hope this helps!
 
Can someone please explain to me why Deoxys is only in tier 3 because as an OU player, I'm surprised to see it that low. I understand that it's weak to priority but I assume you'd pair it with Lele.
 

GenOne

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Can someone please explain to me why Deoxys is only in tier 3 because as an OU player, I'm surprised to see it that low. I understand that it's weak to priority but I assume you'd pair it with Lele.
It's basically because Deoxys-A is a bit easier for an opponent to play around in a 2 vs 2 environment.

Others might be able to explain it a bit better, but I'll give it a shot.

In a singles game, if Deo-A KOs its foe on a turn, that also means it doesn't have to take any damage that turn (other than maybe LO recoil) which is how Deo-A is able to play around its paper-thin defenses.

In doubles, even if Deo-A KOs one of its foes, the other foe is still free to attack it, and unless Deo-A holds a Focus Sash it's more than likely going to drop from that attack because Deo-A really sucks at taking hits. So all other things being equal, what happens in a lot of matchups is that Deo-A KOs one opponent but then gets KO'd on the same turn, so you're basically just trading mons at that point.

Of course, that's oversimplifying things quite a bit. Deoxys-A also has a partner that, when played right, can help support Deoxys-A to help it stay on the field longer (e.g. Deo's partner might be positioned to KO the foe that Deo can't, or you might have redirection support like Rage Powder Amoonguss that can keep Deo-A safe, etc.) so Deoxys-A definitely can be a threat on the right team when played correctly. But compared to a singles game where it stays safe as long as it secures a KO, in a doubles game it requires a bit more support, positioning and strategy to work well.
 

MajorBowman

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I think part of it is also way more speed control in DOU as compared to OU. Icy Wind, Trick Room, and Tailwind are all common moves in DOU but not OU. If Deoxys isn't attacking first it's probably getting knocked out, so speed control makes Deoxys a little bit less of a threat.
 
Welcome to the Generation 7 Doubles Forum

This forum is focused mainly on Doubles OU, Smogon's official Doubles Format
Come chat with the community in real time at the Smogon Doubles Discord Server or PS! Room

Format Rules
Banlist:

Doubles OU is a format in which both players have two Pokémon on the field at the same time. All Pokémon except those on the banlist (found below) can be used in Doubles OU regardless of the Pokémon's tier in singles play. Unlike in VGC, all Pokémon default to level 100 instead of level 50 and all 6 members of the team are brought each game.

Play Restrictions
  • Endless Battle Clause: Players cannot use any moveset on any Pokémon capable of intentionally causing an endless battle. Thus:
    • A Pokémon may not carry Recycle and hold a Leppa Berry in conjunction with Heal Pulse and Milk Drink, Moonlight, Morning Sun, Recover, Roost, Slack Off, Soft-Boiled, or Wish.
    • A Pokémon may not hold a Leppa Berry while carrying Recycle and Pain Split.
    • A Pokémon may not hold a Leppa Berry while carrying Recycle and Fling.
  • Evasion Clause: Players cannot use the moves Double Team or Minimize.
  • Moody Clause: Players cannot use a Pokémon with the Moody ability.
  • OHKO Clause: Players cannot use the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold.
  • Species Clause: Players cannot have two Pokémon with the same Pokédex number on the same team
Pokémon Restrictions
Players cannot use the following Pokémon:
  • Snorlax
  • Mewtwo
  • Lugia
  • Ho-oh
  • Kyogre
  • Groudon
  • Rayquaza
  • Jirachi
  • Dialga
  • Palkia
  • Giratina
  • Giratina-Origin
  • Arceus
  • Reshiram
  • Zekrom
  • Kyurem-White
  • Xerneas
  • Yveltal
  • Solgaleo
  • Lunala
  • Magearna
  • Marshadow
  • Necrozma-Dusk Mane
  • Necrozma-Dawn Wings
Move Restrictions
Players cannot use the following moves:
  • Dark Void
  • Swagger
Players cannot use the following moves on the same team:
  • Gravity and sleep moves with below one hundred percent accuracy
Item Restrictions
Players cannot use the following items:
  • Eevium Z
  • Gengarite
  • Kangaskhanite
Ability Restrictions
Players cannot use the following abilities:
  • Power Construct

Forum Rules
1. All main forum rules still apply here. Be sure to read those, as well as the rules in this thread, before posting in the subforum
2. The forum moderation team (listed below) reserves the right to lock and/or delete, without notice, senseless threads
3. Be nice to other posters and maintain good discussion

Doubles OU Tier Leaders:
MajorBowman
talkingtree

Doubles OU Forum Mods:
Arcticblast
Level 51
MajorBowman
talkingtree

Doubles OU Council:
MajorBowman
talkingtree
Demantoid
miltankmilk
n10sit


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Doubles Basics
The true gem of Doubles does not lie in such minute differences in rulesets - it's the various strategies that are born and made viable by the virtue of having an additional partner and an extra opponent on the battle field simultaneously. Such battle setting results in a fast and furious play unimaginable in Singles play. If you think you have time to dilly dally with setting up hazards and some brainless volt-turn spam, think again! Since so much happens in a span of a single turn, on-the-spot decision making and intuition are tested heavily in Doubles. A thrilling new challenge unfounded in Singles!

Another major appeal of Doubles is the increased viability and deeper nuances of Pokemon moves. Here are some quick overview of such moves:

Protect - +4 Priority. Undoubtedly the most important move in Doubles; it shields whatever moves targeted at the user and without the need to blindly switch out and let another one of your Pokemon to take a hit, too! A well-executed Protect means wasted turns for the opponent, whose attacks utterly fail to do anything while your other Pokemon can ideally take the attacker out. Protect also shield your Pokemon against Fake Out flinches, a devastating move in Double. Stalling out Tailwind or TR turns serve as another purpose for using Protect.

Feint - +2 Priority. With Protect being such a pivotal move in Doubles, it's no wonder that a counter-move in Feint would see some use! It comes in handy when you need to connect with the target Pokemon on that turn NO MATTER WHAT. Feint also breaks other protection moves, including Wide Guard, Quick Guard, and Spiky Shield.

Fake Out - +3 Priority. This is another prevalent move in Doubles, and it's a game-breaking one, too. A super-priority flinch move renders one of the opponent's Pokemon immobile and vulnerable to assaults. Just like in Singles, Fake Out can be seen from a mile away, but the Fake Out user can actually take advantage of this, forcing the opponent to use Protect. Fake Out's greater utility in Doubles in turn increases the value of Inner Focus.

Spread Moves - These moves target multiple Pokemon - some only affect both enemies while other spread moves also catches your ally, too. Such distinctions make otherwise obscure moves in Singles, such as Heat Wave and Rock Slide, to have a specific niche in Doubles!

All spread moves's power is reduced to 75% of its original base power (so Earthquake is a 75 bp Ground-type move, while Blizzard is a 82 bp Ice-type move), but this reduction is more than compensated by hitting more than one target. If it's hitting both foes, it is effectively hitting with 150% of the move's original power (75%*2). When there is only one target on the field, the spread move hits the opponent with 100% of its original power.

Wide Guard / Quick Guard - +3 Priority. BW added new protection moves to Doubles. Unlike Protect, these Guard moves protect both the user AND the ally from spread moves and priority moves, respectively. This means that one Pokemon can guard for Earthquake or Fake Outs, thereby wasting the opponent's turn, while its partner can go on the offensive.

These these two moves were both buffed in XY; both Guard moves can be used consecutively without fail! Quick Guard now also blocks non-damaging moves from Prankster Pokemon!

Helping Hand - +5 Priority. A move designed specifically for Doubles, this move boosts the power of the user's ally by 50% for one turn, which can change a 2HKO into a OHKO. Such a difference is significant in Doubles, as knocking out the opponent effectively means cutting down on the opponent's offense by half for that turn. Thus, Helping Hand user pairs nicely with a fast Sweeper like Thundurus or Latios. Helping Hand has +5 priority, so the helper can be a slow bulky supporter like Cresselia, and it is used before Prankster Taunt.

Follow Me / Rage Powder - +2 Priority. Another move tailored for Doubles, but this time all non-spread moves are re-directed to the user of Follow Me or Rage Powder, thereby keeping its partner untouched. Spread moves like Blizzard and Earthquake still hits both users, though. This move comes in handy when you are trying to set up with your other Pokemon. XY nerfed Follow Me / Rage Powder by lowering its priority bracket to one below Fake Out - faster users can no longer re-direct Fake Out with these moves. Grass-types and Pokemon either holding Safety Goggles or using the Overcoat ability also ignore Rage Powder.

Tailwind / Icy Wind / Thunder Wave / Trick Room - Similarly to Singles, having the first move is almost always more advantageous than attacking second. Tailwind, Icy Wind, and Trick Room are prevalent moves to control Speed and attack first. Even though 4-5 turns go awfully quick in Singles to do anything productive, in Doubles it is usually half the game or more! Icy Wind (or Electroweb) is also an amazing utility move, a spread move that drops BOTH enemies' Speed by one stage.

Move Order - Who moves first is often a frequently confused topic, since a Pokemon's Speed can change in the middle of a turn, making faster Pokemon slower. The move order is pre-determined at the beginning of the turn, so any changes in the Pokemon's Speed would only affect the move order in subsequent turns. Here are some scenarios:
  • Your Zapdos sets up Tailwind. Your Kyurem-B will not move before the opponent's Charizard Y until the following turn
  • Your Thundurus paralyzes the opposing Genesect with Thunder Wave. However, Genesect will still move before Volcanion until the turn ends.
  • Your Charizard Mega Evolves into Charizard Y and summons sun. Venusaur's Chlorophyll wont kick in until the following turn.
  • The above scenario is different from a case where the weather is summoned before the beginning of the turn (ie, if you used Ninetales to summon sun before the turn begins, then Venusaur has its Speed doubled from turn 1).
  • Megas gain their new speed and abilities immediately. For example, Mega Diancie will be treated as base 110 Speed on the turn it Mega evolves, unlike XY, where it uses its non-mega Speed on the evolution turn. Mega Swampert, which gains Swift Swim on Mega Evolution, will be able to move at Swift Swim Speed on its evolution turn if Rain is up.
Pardon the noob, but I have to ask why pokemon with the same pokedex number aren't allowed on the same team. I could see not allowing pokemon of identical pokedex number and form, but why wouldn't someone be allowed to have trash cloak and sany cloak wormadam on the same team, or sylveon and jolteon together?
 

MajorBowman

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Species clause is a necessity to prevent teams from loading up on multiples of the same Pokemon, and this is defined as sharing a Pokedex number in the games themselves. For example, if you were to try to play on Battle Spot with two Incineroar, you wouldn't be able to. Disallowing different formes of the same Pokemon is a byproduct, since they are technically still the same species. This is why you couldn't use, say, Sandy and Trash Wormadam or Wash and Heat Rotom on the same team. You are allowed to use both Sylveon and Jolteon though, as they have different Pokedex numbers.
 
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This is more of a "meta" question, but why is doubles OU so less populated than other formats?
I basically am only playing DOU on showdown and queue times aren't bad at all, seems like theres a lot of participants, but not really on forum or chat rooms. Is there some stigma against DOU 6v6?
 
Doubles OU is less popular on the ladder as well as in chat rooms (DOU has ~15 active battles as I'm typing this while OU 100+) . Battles in pokemon games are mostly single battles so competitive singles tends to be more popular than doubles. Doubles OU also has to compete with VGC as a doubles format. VGC has the advantages of being the official format of the world championships, has a playable ladder on cartridge and is played by people all over the world. As a result Doubles OU is one of the less popular competitive formats and has less activity in chatrooms/forums. We are also reaching the end of the generation, a time when activity drops in general, so lack of activity is particularly evident right now.
 
Is there a resource somewhere that lists good team comboes?
Stuff like EQ + flying partner, or explosion + ghost partners, stuff like that.
 

Arcticblast

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Is there a resource somewhere that lists good team comboes?
Stuff like EQ + flying partner, or explosion + ghost partners, stuff like that.
The best teams actually aren’t built in pairs like that. Building in this way leaves your team open to disruption or just to getting less out of your individual Pokémon. Ideally, you want your team to perform at a similar level when any two of your Pokémon are on the field at the same time.

The closest things to two-mon combos we usually see are Follow Me / Rage Powder plus setup sweepers, but the FM users are good with anything, and the setup sweepers can often still find time to set up without redirection.

If you’d like to see some examples of well-built teams, check out the sample teams thread.
 
Regigigas @ Leftovers
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Rock Polish
- Return
- Knock Off

Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Transform

Deoxys-Defense @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Toxic
- Wrap
- Rest
- Cosmic Power

Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Atk / 56 SpA
Mild Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Rock Polish
- Diamond Storm
- Skill Swap

Azumarill @ Focus Sash
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpA
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Aqua Jet
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough

Shuckle @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Rest
- Toxic
- Infestation

This team has been working pretty well for me. What should I do to improve it.
 

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