Don't use that, use this [OU Edition]

Chou Toshio

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Think before you post guys. Make sure your comparisons make sense. I don't want to see something like Keldeo > Infernape when they play almost entirely different.
Yeah.

On the other hand though, Keldeo is partly responsible for them playing different (and weather is hugely responsible). DPP's Mix-nape set is basically non existent. Sure there's a lot of reasons for this:
1) Fire Blast is a lot less consistent due to weather, so people want to fully invest in ATK to power Close Combat
2) Walls tend to have more balanced bulk in BW as opposed to specialized.
3) Latias and Latios' presence put a premium on having a really strong U-turn
4) Keldeo does it better

So a lot of things have happened to make mix-nape not so attractive (compared to fully physical anyway), but Keldeo isn't NOT a factor. Still, when you have so many factors coming together to cause something, we're not really in the realm of "don't use that, use this."

Besides, "don't use that" things should be pretty common sets (that are just misguided). If they're sets as dead as mix-nape is, than they don't really justify a post here.
 

MCBarrett

i love it when you call me big hoppa
What would be the point of Timid to sub against Jolly Breloom? If he's using Mach Punch he'll outspeed anyway-- if he's Bullet Seeding he'll break the sub and hit you too. I guess it can protect you from Low Sweep... o_O
Becuase they would most likely go for Spore predicting to outspeed. And I would agree that Subbing against Jolly Breloom isn't the most important thing but some people don't want to give up too much bulk. I would preferably go for outspeeding Mamo though because that is pretty useful and Tentacruel's recovery helps mitigate the loss of bulk.
 
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Do not use Gyarados use MAGIKARP.

Just kidding.

Do not use this:


Eelektross @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Giga Drain
- Flamethrower / Thunderbolt
- Thunderbolt / Hidden Power [Ice]

Although Eelektross seems appealing because it has no weaknesses, and is not frail like Raichu or Jolteon, its bulk is generally not enough to take Draco Meteors, Hydro Pumps, Firs Blasts, etc. It is also very slow, and will easily shatter to attackers like Latios, Keldeo, and Heatran. If it had more speed and/or bulk, maybe it could compete in the offensive BW2 OU metagame. But with what it has, it will not do much effectively and efficiently. Save it for the lower tiers.

Use this instead:

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 232 HP / 56 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split / Hidden Power [Ice]

Rotom-W is a much better choice than Eelektross. It has only one weakness to grass attacks, is MUCH faster, and has much more meaningful bulk, despite a crappy base HP. It can check threats like Keldeo, Scizor, Heatran, Landorus-T, Politoed, Tyranitar, and so on. It can also pummel past grounds with a STAB Hydro Pump, Gastrodon and Seismitoad being the only exceptions, both of which are not very common. Its movepool is not the best, but it has enough to be a relevant threat in such an offensive metagame. Rotom-W is much more reliable than Eelektross.
 
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Do not use Gyarados use MAGIKARP.

Just kidding.

Do not use this:


Eelektross @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Giga Drain
- Flamethrower / Thunderbolt
- Thunderbolt / Hidden Power [Ice]

Although Eelektross seems appealing because it has no weaknesses, and is not frail like Raichu or Jolteon, its bulk is generally not enough to take Draco Meteors, Hydro Pumps, Firs Blasts, etc. It is also very slow, and will easily shatter to attackers like Latios, Keldeo, and Heatran. If it had more speed and/or bulk, maybe it could compete in the offensive BW2 OU metagame. But with what it has, it will not do much effectively and efficiently. Save it for the lower tiers.

Use this instead:

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 232 HP / 56 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split / Hidden Power [Ice]

Rotom-W is a much better choice than Eelektross. It has only one weakness to grass attacks, is MUCH faster, and has much more meaningful bulk, despite a crappy base HP. It can check threats like Keldeo, Scizor, Heatran, Landorus-T, Politoed, Tyranitar, and so on. It can also pummel past grounds with a STAB Hydro Pump, Gastrodon and Seismitoad being the only exceptions, both of which are not very common. Its movepool is not the best, but it has enough to be a relevant threat in such an offensive metagame. Rotom-W is much more reliable than Eelektross.
Eelektross actually has a few advantages over Rotom-W. It has a much wider movepool, which contains moves like Flamethrower and Giga Drain, two attacks Rotom-W would kill for. The fact that it has good bulk and no weaknesses might come in handy, considering it can take attacks like dragon pulse (and let's face it, can rotom-w take a LO draco meteor from Latios? I think not.) and hit back. On top of this, Eelektross can run ACID SPRAY, which forces a lot of switches and when combined with entry hazards can make your opponent tremble in fear. That low base speed combined with its good bulk makes it a great candidate for Trick Room.
And let's not forget Eelektross can go mixed or even physically-based, something Rotom-W could only dream of. Eelektross has access to moves like Superpower and Dragon Claw, which hurt many of OU's top threats for solid damage. It also has Coil, which is once again something Rotom-W can only dream of (Coil would actually be a good move for rotom-w as it'd raise WoW's and Hydro Pump's accuracy).

Also, that Eelektross set is really weird. Nobody uses 252 Spe and a Timid nature on Eelektross. Eelektross would rather run 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe or at least 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe with a Modest nature.
 
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Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Do not use this:


Eelektross @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Giga Drain
- Flamethrower / Thunderbolt
- Thunderbolt / Hidden Power [Ice]

Although Eelektross seems appealing because it has no weaknesses, and is not frail like Raichu or Jolteon, its bulk is generally not enough to take Draco Meteors, Hydro Pumps, Firs Blasts, etc. It is also very slow, and will easily shatter to attackers like Latios, Keldeo, and Heatran. If it had more speed and/or bulk, maybe it could compete in the offensive BW2 OU metagame. But with what it has, it will not do much effectively and efficiently. Save it for the lower tiers.

Use this instead:

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 232 HP / 56 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split / Hidden Power [Ice]

Rotom-W is a much better choice than Eelektross. It has only one weakness to grass attacks, is MUCH faster, and has much more meaningful bulk, despite a crappy base HP. It can check threats like Keldeo, Scizor, Heatran, Landorus-T, Politoed, Tyranitar, and so on. It can also pummel past grounds with a STAB Hydro Pump, Gastrodon and Seismitoad being the only exceptions, both of which are not very common. Its movepool is not the best, but it has enough to be a relevant threat in such an offensive metagame. Rotom-W is much more reliable than Eelektross.
No offense, but I feel like this comparison isn't very practical. Remember that the point of this thread is to pinpoint a specific overrated Pokemon or outdated set that people are still using, and then suggest an alternative. Although what you said was true in how Rotom-W generally outclasses Elektross, who would ever use Eelektross on a serious OU team when the metagame is just too fast/powerful for it, and there are so many other alternatives? Even the Electivire < Thundurus-T comparison is more practical seeing as Electivire sees somewhat high usage for a shitty RU Pokemon, but Eelektross is nearly nonexistence in OU. It's one of those things where you have to be a complete knuckle head to use someone like Eelektross on a serious OU team, and seeing as no one seems to be using it in the first place, I feel that the comparison isn't really fair. It's kind of like comparing Blissey to Audino. Sure Blissey is obviously a better choice, but who in the right mind would use Audino in OU when it is so obviously outclassed by SO MANY other things? See what I mean? I want these comparisons to be practical, that's the key word.

"Don't post obviously bad choices, like Physical Latias ----> LO Latias for example"

This is straight from the OP. If a choice is so obviously bad over another, then I feel that there isn't even a point of comparing them. Like DoABarrelRoll stated, Eelektross is EXTREMELY niche to very specific teams, if that. Most everyone would realize that.
 
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Eelektross is only really good on Trick Room teams, and yet, I see people using it as much as I see Charizard - who is utter crap in Ou. Claiming that Eelektross is usable in Ou is like saying Articuno or hell even Samurott is usable in Ou; they require more support than they are worth to function, when you can just use a different Pokemon. Eelektross' larger movepool does not give it a practical niche in Ou, yet I see people using more often than not.
 
hell even Samurott is usable in Ou; they require more support than they are worth to function, when you can just use a different Pokemon.
Completely disagree with this statement , Samurrot is usable in OU
Access to Swords dance Aqua jet ,Superpower, and Megahorn does provide a lot of power
I used mixed Samurrot and it does provide lot of utility to the without needing support ( acess to taunt also is great )
 
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Chou Toshio

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I kind of agree you can't really make an argument to write Samurott off as unusable... I mean, everyone's been raving about Feraligatr being good...

Feraligatr: 85 / 105 / 100 / 79 / 83 / 78 BST = 530 Water / Torrent
Samurott: 95 / 100 / 85 / 108 / 70 / 70 BST = 528 Water / Torrent

Feraligatr moves used in OU: Swords Dance, Aqua Jet, Waterfall, Superpower, Crunch
Samurott movepool includes: Swords Dance, Aqua Jet, Waterfall, Superpower, Night Slash, Megahorn

To put the difference of bulk in perspective:

252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 196-232 (54.9 - 64.98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Samurott: 225-265 (59.68 - 70.29%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 188-224 (52.66 - 62.74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Samurott: 218-258 (57.82 - 68.43%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So... yes, Feraligatr does almost completely outclass it, but only by a LITTLE bit of bulk, a LITTLE bit of power, and a LITTLE bit of Speed. Yes they make a difference, but not to the point where you'd conclude Samurott couldn't be used effectively in a similar way. Samurott has the stats and movepool to function similarly (but worse) on the physical side-- but it would be a lot more devastating than Feraligatr if you wanted to use a random gimmicky special set.

So if you're looking for a terrible low tier Poke that could never possibly function well in OU, this is probably not the best example. Maybe something like Vileplume or Swellow...
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
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No, please no.
If you're not going to post something worth mentioning, then don't post please. It's rude.

I kind of agree you can't really make an argument to write Samurott off as unusable... I mean, everyone's been raving about Feraligatr being good...

Feraligatr: 85 / 105 / 100 / 79 / 83 / 78 BST = 530 Water / Torrent
Samurott: 95 / 100 / 85 / 108 / 70 / 70 BST = 528 Water / Torrent

Feraligatr moves used in OU: Swords Dance, Aqua Jet, Waterfall, Superpower, Crunch
Samurott movepool includes: Swords Dance, Aqua Jet, Waterfall, Superpower, Night Slash, Megahorn

To put the difference of bulk in perspective:

252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 196-232 (54.9 - 64.98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 184 HP / 0 Def Samurott: 225-265 (59.68 - 70.29%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 188-224 (52.66 - 62.74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 184 HP / 0 SpD Samurott: 218-258 (57.82 - 68.43%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So... yes, Feraligatr does almost completely outclass it, but only by a LITTLE bit of bulk, a LITTLE bit of power, and a LITTLE bit of Speed. Yes they make a difference, but not to the point where you'd conclude Samurott couldn't be used effectively in a similar way. Samurott has the stats and movepool to function similarly (but worse) on the physical side-- but it would be a lot more devastating than Feraligatr if you wanted to use a random gimmicky special set.

So if you're looking for a terrible low tier Poke that could never possibly function well in OU, this is probably not the best example. Maybe something like Vileplume or Swellow...
Thank you for this Chou. I concur that ironically Samurott is just BARELY that less useful then Feraligatr. Of course, Samurott will be utterly outclassed once Gator gets Sheer Force, but until then, it's still a viable option if you're looking for something different. Megahorn is pretty cool because it can always OHKO specially defensive Celebi without a boost, and it deals much more damage to Grass-type in general then Ice Punch. It also still has Night Slash to get around Jellicent. Once again, Sammy seems to get the typical "If it's NU, it sucks" labeling. A niche is a niche, and Gator's niche isn't even that much more significant over Sammys.
 
Don't use this:


Swampert @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Roar / Protect / Ice Beam

This isn't DPP anymore. Swampert's bulk just doesn't cut it. If you want a bulky pivot that can check lots of threats and set up SR, use...


Landorus-T @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-Turn
- Stone Edge / HP Ice

Greater offensive prowess, better bulk when factoring Intimidate, ability to check a wide variety of threats, ability to scout... Basically does everything Swampert once did, but better.
 

Chou Toshio

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Swampert? Seriously? Again though dude-- look up at the Electross point; Swampert is in the same boat. Who are you trying educate? No one halfway good uses pert anyway! This thread is about sets that are overrated and too common-- no one needs a despell about how mediocre Swampert is. Please read the rules and OP.
 
I used Samurott on the same team as I did Feraligatr in BW1, while Samurott is technically outclassed, he does an amazing job at weakening or beating Feraligatr's counters.. So while being technically outclassed, species clause actually allows it to have a niche in OU, therefore being viable :].

In all honesty, though.. This is a confusing thread. Because few people who are actually decent do use pokemon that are outclassed, just as you said about that swampert.
So I wouldn't know what to post besides things like Thundurus-T > Jolteon, which is just a blatant lie, as the superior speed, lack of weakness to rocks, and lack of weakness to ice ( which is a blessing on a volt absorb pokemon, I might add. ) all give it enough of a niche to distinguish it from Thundurus-T, Jolteon is a huge threat to some forms of offensive teams due to that amazing speed while still being able to switch moves, while those teams might have noticeably less issues with Thundurus-T ( I know this for a fact because I used, and laddered to top 5 with a team that had huge issues with jolteon, but not with thundurus-T )

And as a user of Jolteon, I just think its speed and the fact rocks give it less trouble makes it a superior choice to Thundurus-T on an actual respectable amount of teams
 
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Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Do I really need to make the OP even clearer how I don't want really obvious comparisons? Are some of you guys too lazy to read the OP, or do you not know how to comprehend things?

I used Samurott on the same team as I did Feraligatr in BW1, while Samurott is technically outclassed, he does an amazing job at weakening or beating Feraligatr's counters.. So while being technically outclassed, species clause actually allows it to have a niche in OU, therefore being viable :].

In all honesty, though.. This is a confusing thread. Because few people who are actually decent do use pokemon that are outclassed, just as you said about that swampert.
So I wouldn't know what to post besides things like Thundurus-T > Jolteon, which is just a blatant lie, as the superior speed, lack of weakness to rocks, and lack of weakness to ice ( which is a blessing on a volt absorb pokemon, I might add. ) all give it enough of a niche to distinguish it from Thundurus-T, Jolteon is a huge threat to some forms of offensive teams due to that amazing speed while still being able to switch moves, while those teams might have noticeably less issues with Thundurus-T ( I know this for a fact because I used, and laddered to top 5 with a team that had huge issues with jolteon, but not with thundurus-T )

And as a user of Jolteon, I just think its speed and the fact rocks give it less trouble makes it a superior choice to Thundurus-T on an actual respectable amount of teams
No, people are taking the concept of this thread WAY too literally. When we compare Pokemon, we're not trying to make really obvious comparisons like the guy above, nor are we trying to call a specific Pokemon bad. This thread is simply to address commonly overrated sets or Pokemon that are generally outclassed by something else, and then we suggest an alternative. I don't know why people are bashing my Thundurus-T > Jolteon example so much. Jolteon is more of a niche Pokemon for teams that need a speedy Electric-type, but don't neccesarily need the sweeping or wallbreaking capabilities of Thundurus-T. Almost 75% of the time though, people will WANT to use Thundurus-T, because although it's slower and weak to SR, it packs a huge punch and has the ability to sweep on a dime, which is something Jolteon can't do. I never said Jolteon sucks, and if you think that, then read the example again. Jolteon is good, but Thundurus-T is almost always a better option. This is not my opinion, this is a fact. I think it's a perfect example of what I'd like to see posted in this thread. It's not a blatant lie, and if you think that, then you're not thinking logically.

I honestly don't see what's so confusing or hard to understand about this thread. I feel by now if people are confused at what to post, they should just read the ton of example posts in the OP. At this point, no one should be confused.
 
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No, people are taking the concept of this thread WAY too literally. When we compare Pokemon, we're not trying to make really obvious comparisons like the guy above, nor are we trying to call a specific Pokemon bad. This thread is simply to address commonly overrated sets or Pokemon that are generally outclassed by something else, and then we suggest an alternative. I don't know why people are bashing my Thundurus-T > Jolteon example so much. Jolteon is more of a niche Pokemon for teams that need a speedy Electric-type, but don't neccesarily need the sweeping or wallbreaking capabilities of Thundurus-T. Almost 75% of the time though, people will WANT to use Thundurus-T, because although it's slower and weak to SR, it packs a huge punch and has the ability to sweep on a dime, which is something Jolteon can't do. I never said Jolteon sucks, and if you think that, then read the example again. Jolteon is good, but Thundurus-T is almost always a better option. This is not my opinion, this is a fact. I think it's a perfect example of what I'd like to see posted in this thread. It's not a blatant lie, and if you think that, then you're not thinking logically.

I honestly don't see what's so confusing or hard to understand about this thread. I feel by now if people are confused at what to post, they should just read the ton of example posts in the OP. At this point, no one should be confused.
It's actually much easier to fit Jolteon into teams for me, personally. The ton of examples in the OP are mostly just horrible examples of mostly underrated pokemon being replaced by overrated pokemon, even when they don't even carry the niche that said underrated pokemon carries.
The only good example I found in the OP was LO/King's rock over white herb/sash on cloyster
 
It's actually much easier to fit Jolteon into teams for me, personally. The ton of examples in the OP are mostly just horrible examples of mostly underrated pokemon being replaced by overrated pokemon, even when they don't even carry the niche that said underrated pokemon carries.
I would say that Vaporeon, Infernape(except on sun), Jolteon, and Cloyster are almost always outclassed by better pokemon. They're "underated" because they quite frankly pale in comparison to the pokemon that outclass them.
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
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It's actually much easier to fit Jolteon into teams for me, personally. The ton of examples in the OP are mostly just horrible examples of mostly underrated pokemon being replaced by overrated pokemon, even when they don't even carry the niche that said underrated pokemon carries.
The only good example I found in the OP was LO/King's rock over white herb/sash on cloyster
Funny thing is, most of the example in the OP were posted by well respected players that know what they're talking about, so I wouldn't call them horrible at all. We all have our preferences, but the preferences in the OP are the ones that high leveled players will be utilizing, because they're accurate.
 
Charizard should only ever be compared to Volcarona. Lilligant and Charizard are nothing alike, so I don't know why you're saying "use this instead." Charizard just so happens to hit harder than any other sun Pokémon, and makes a pretty great wall breaker for sun teams with the right support. It's just outclassed by Volcarona in almost every way you can imagine, so that's why it isn't worth a team slot. Not saying Lilligant is bad, it's not, but it shouldn't be compared to Charizard at all.

Long story short, yes I'm a Charizard fanboy.
Darmanitan hits hardest bro... NOT Charizard(unless you count Overheat or Blast Burn, not Fire Blast but then it is barely stronger for the one turn)
Volcarona with 100 base speed and special attacking is more comparable to Charizard in that sense though.

140 base attack with 140 base power move with a 30% mod or 109 base special attack with 120 base power and a 50% mod.

Also Darmanitan laughs at Heatran unlike most sun abusers.
 

Gary

Can be abrasive at times (no joke)
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Darmanitan hits hardest bro... NOT Charizard(unless you count Overheat or Blast Burn, not Fire Blast but then it is barely stronger for the one turn)
Volcarona with 100 base speed and special attacking is more comparable to Charizard in that sense though.

140 base attack with 140 base power move with a 30% mod or 109 base special attack with 120 base power and a 50% mod.

Also Darmanitan laughs at Heatran unlike most sun abusers.
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi in sun: 848-1002 (209.9 - 248.01%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Jirachi in sun: 842-993 (208.41 - 245.79%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Charizard hits harder even with a +Spe nature lol. And don't even bother mentioning that Darmanitan hits harder with a Choice Band, because no one is going to use Banded Darmanitan in OU. Victini hits hardest with Band, but then again Zard still hits harder if running a +SpA nature. Charizard is the most powerful sun wallbreaker in OU.
 

Chou Toshio

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Guys, the point is just that you shouldn't be:

1) Putting up examples of Pokemon that are basically never used, and generally common knowledge are bad.
2) Speaking about Pokemon generally
3) Comparing Pokemon that don't share a similar niche
4) Assuming that "Do Use" has to completely out class "don't use"-- it's enough that they're comparable and one is less out-dated.

You should be making comparisons for Pokemon that are generally from the same/a similar niche, while suggesting a Pokemon that is generally better suited/more effective/potentially more effective than an outdated or over used set. Generally speaking "generic NU Pokemon that is never used" replace by "generic OU Pokemon that's always used" isn't exactly a good post for this thread.

In fact, the opposite could very well be the better post

Example:

Don't use:


Volcarona under Rain
Timid
4 HP / 252 SPA / 252 SPE
@ Leftovers / Life Orb
-Hurricane
-Bug Buzz
-Quiver Dance
-Hidden Power Water

Point of the matter is, Hurricane is just too weak as a main attack without STAB. HP Water is also too weak to take on the game's Steel-types, even with Rain boost-- Mixed Skarmory and Jirachi can cause this set a lot of undue problems. Probably the worst thing about this Volcarona is that it's not that effective against Sun teams, when Volcarona should be netting Rain teams an advantage against sun. Its mediocre physical defense can be a problem too, especially when you're trying to value it for its Fighting Resist. Also with the popularity of CS Terrakion and Keldeo (where Hydreigon was the top Scarfer in BW1), this Pokemon is a little too slow to be truly intimidating in BW2. Especially without STAB on its main attack. Volc under rain is more of a BW gimmick than an effective BW2 poke.


Try Using:


Moltres under rain
Modest
4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SPE
@ Life Orb
-Hurricane
-Fire Blast
-Agility
-Hidden Power Fighting / Roost

Everything that Rain Volc's original creators wanted it to accomplish, BW2 Rain Moltres does better. With STAB and 125 SpA, it hits like a TANK with Hurricane-- knocking the wind out of even Pokemon that resist it. STAB makes it a completely different beast. Because of the greater popularity of Jirachi and Mix-Skarm, you really want Fire Blast in BW2-- even under rain. Fire Blast destroys numerous key threats, even under rain, just because Moltres is so damn powerful. Also important, Agility lets it out pace literally everything-- including Scarf Keldeo/Terrakion/Latios. The fact that Moltres can out-pace all of these with Modest makes it all the more intimidating. Furthermore, Moltres' better all around bulk and interesting defensive typing make it a great asset-- more than Volcarona could hope to be. That Ground immunity giving it switch-ins and an immunity to Spikes is a huge boon as well.

Basically, Moltres hits harder (thanks to modest and STAB Hurricane), wall breaks better, adds more defensive benefit, and is also a more lethal sweeper thanks to its superior Speed-- and hell, thanks to STAB, Moltres' Hurricane is still hitting harder at +0 than Volc's does at +1.
 
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Guys, the point is just that you shouldn't be:

1) Putting up examples of Pokemon that are basically never used, and generally common knowledge are bad.
2) Speaking about Pokemon generally
3) Comparing Pokemon that don't share a similar niche
4) Assuming that "Do Use" has to completely out class "don't use"-- it's enough that they're comparable and one is less out-dated.

You should be making comparisons for Pokemon that are generally from the same/a similar niche, while suggesting a Pokemon that is generally better suited/more effective/potentially more effective than an outdated or over used set. Generally speaking "generic NU Pokemon that is never used" replace by "generic OU Pokemon that's always used" isn't exactly a good post for this thread.

In fact, the opposite could very well be the better post

Example:

Don't use:


Volcarona under Rain
Timid
4 HP / 252 SPA / 252 SPE
@ Leftovers / Life Orb
-Hurricane
-Bug Buzz
-Quiver Dance
-Hidden Power Water

Point of the matter is, Hurricane is just too weak as a main attack without STAB. HP Water is also too weak to take on the game's Steel-types, even with Rain boost-- Mixed Skarmory and Jirachi can cause this set a lot of undue problems. Probably the worst thing about this Volcarona is that it's not that effective against Sun teams, when Volcarona should be netting Rain teams an advantage against sun. Its mediocre physical defense can be a problem too, especially when you're trying to value it for its Fighting Resist. Also with the popularity of CS Terrakion and Keldeo (where Hydreigon was the top Scarfer in BW1), this Pokemon is a little too slow to be truly intimidating in BW2. Especially without STAB on its main attack. Volc under rain is more of a BW gimmick than an effective BW2 poke.


Try Using:


Moltres under rain
Modest
4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SPE
@ Life Orb
-Hurricane
-Fire Blast
-Agility
-Hidden Power Fighting / Roost

Everything that Rain Volc's original creators wanted it to accomplish, BW2 Rain Moltres does better. With STAB and 125 SpA, it hits like a TANK with Hurricane-- knocking the wind out of even Pokemon that resist it. STAB makes it a completely different beast. Because of the greater popularity of Jirachi and Mix-Skarm, you really want Fire Blast in BW2-- even under rain. Fire Blast destroys numerous key threats, even under rain, just because Moltres is so damn powerful. Also important, Agility lets it out pace literally everything-- including Scarf Keldeo/Terrakion/Latios. The fact that Moltres can out-pace all of these with Modest makes it all the more intimidating. Furthermore, Moltres' better all around bulk and interesting defensive typing make it a great asset-- more than Volcarona could hope to be. That Ground immunity giving it switch-ins and an immunity to Spikes is a huge boon as well.

Basically, Moltres hits harder (thanks to modest and STAB Hurricane), wall breaks better, adds more defensive benefit, and is also a more lethal sweeper thanks to its superior Speed-- and hell, thanks to STAB, Moltres' Hurricane is still hitting harder at +0 than Volc's does at +1.
Yes, Modest 90 base speed is clearly superior over timid 100 base speed, Volcarona doesn't have to set up in order to have respectable speed, and even then Volcarona is actually stronger after set-up ( just not with hurricane, but it still has a stab to work with ), that being said, I like this example.
Besides typing and role ( if you want to make the role really general like offensive and defensive, not going into set-up, cleaner, wallbreaker, etc. ), half the pokes mentioned aren't even comparable, and while Thundurus-T is newer than Jolteon for example, that hardly makes it better, they're equally good at the roll they actually are supposed to perform.

It is MORE obvious not to use jolteon over thundurus-t when you need a wallbreaker than it is to assume a pokemon like Swampert, who was amazing last gen, is bad.
 
Volcarona is still a fearsome pokemon for the metagame, (btw fire blast is still viable over hp water imo) you can't break throught team with Moltres, it's less powerful even with random calcs, ( like yeah hurricane with stabb hits better and stuff) you can't break through things like Tyranitar (you'd be surprise to see how little Hp fight does) and beating SS is a great win condition for any Rain team.

And i don't really like the fact that you're trying to sell your Moltres by putting Volcarona down a lot, if you can spinn the SR, why not being hit by spikes / TS is so great then ? Why not talking about how volcarona can start to beat stalls like Jellicent by using QD multiple times while Moltres will be at +0 for ever ? Why not talking about how bad Moltres movepool is ? Hurricane / FB / Hp and there you go, Volcarona can have Hp water, Giga drain, Roost, a fire move....Why not talking about Moltres counters ? I mean, off course you will beat a fight pokemon with a Flying stabb...

Imo Volcarona is overall better in sun for beating scarfkeldeo with giga drain, but i really don't think moltres is better than him, and there's a reason why Moltres is less played than Volcarona, even in Rain.
 
I suppose a point could be made that Volcarona can be used to actually sweep more effectively with Quiver Dance, while Moltres is more of a wall breaker, it can only sweep in the end game. Honestly though, Volcarona in the rain isn't that great of a rain sweeper, and IMO one would be better off with Moltres to wall break better.
 

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