Dewpider, Araquanid Discussion

dwarfstar

mindless philosopher
>Is a spider

>Does not learn Sticky Web in any form or fashion.

If Motherfuckin' Surskit can learn it yet a spider doesn't then what even?

At least Water Bubble is a good ability, makes up for its offensive stats.
Thing is, it actually makes sense from a flavor perspective for Sticky Web not to be available to all spider Pokemon. While all spiders do produce silk, a lot of them don't spin webs. Diving bell spiders do create webs underwater, though (albeit just as a home and to provide structure to their diving bell, not for prey capture), so it oughta be able to learn it. Galvantula actually shouldn't, though, since based on its morphology it seems to be a hybrid of a tarantula and a jumping spider and neither of those families are web-builders. Ariados is kinda debatable, since Spinarak is based on Theridion grallator (a web-builder) and that would make me think it should keep that, but Ariados' morphology is partway between that of web-building spiders and certain ant-mimic and wasp-mimic jumping spiders (including the delightfully strange Orsima ichneumon).

Anyway, to make sure this post isn't totally off-topic, what are your thoughts on the possible utility of Lunge over Leech Life as the Bug STAB of choice? Because you're not doing all that much damage with Leech Life, the recovery will be pretty limited, but the Attack drop could potentially be pretty useful for Araquanid's longevity (and that of of its partner in doubles).
 
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It really doesn't though... there's no water bubble on Azumarill. Or Floatzel.

Not to be annoying but just keeping it honest
Azumarrill has a bubble pattern on its stomach and both of the Pokemon lines are based off of lifebuoys/floaties. They may not have actual bubbles over them but there have been plenty of abilities that were worse fits on worse Pokemon.
 
Prior to Gen VII, only Ice-type Pokémon could learn Frost Breath. In Gen VII, Toxapex, Araquanid, Golisopod, and Bruxish all learn it. Of these, Araquanid has the lowest SpAtk (it's 50, though Toxapex is close at 53).

The point is that a non-STAB, low SpAtk Frost Breath can activate your ally's Anger Point without doing much damage to them. It could even activate a Maranga Berry in the bargain. And Araquanid has a lot of space for gimmicky stuff like this since the only attack it really needs in doubles is Liquidation.
Can someone get some damage calcs for a 0 IV/EV, hindering nature frost breath versus the various anger point Pokemon(Primeape, Tauros, Camerupt, Krookodile, Crabominable)? This sounds interesting and it'd be nice to know if it was feasible(though Krookodile is weak to it, it'd be nice for some calcs for completion's sake).
 

dwarfstar

mindless philosopher
Can someone get some damage calcs for a 0 IV/EV, hindering nature frost breath versus the various anger point Pokemon(Primeape, Tauros, Camerupt, Krookodile, Crabominable)? This sounds interesting and it'd be nice to know if it was feasible(though Krookodile is weak to it, it'd be nice for some calcs for completion's sake).
I'm using the NU offensive set for Tauros, the NU Specs set for Camerupt, and a 252/0 spread for Crabominable because I haven't looked into what an ideal spread for Crabominable might be yet and I can't be bothered to try and figure out doubles-oriented spreads for the other four mons here until I'm out from under this midterm I'm studying for, so these numbers might not be the final ones you want.
minimum SpA Araquanid Frost Breath vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Primeape on a critical hit: 40-48 (14.7 - 17.7%) -- possible 6HKO
minimum SpA Araquanid Frost Breath vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tauros on a critical hit: 44-52 (15.1 - 17.8%) -- possible 6HKO
minimum SpA Araquanid Frost Breath vs. 140 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt on a critical hit: 38-45 (12 - 14.2%) -- possible 8HKO
minimum SpA Araquanid Frost Breath vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile on a critical hit: 80-96 (24.1 - 29%) -- 99% chance to 4HKO
minimum SpA Araquanid Frost Breath vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Crabominable on a critical hit: 20-24 (5 - 6%) -- possibly the worst move ever
 
I'm using the NU offensive set for Tauros, the NU Specs set for Camerupt, and a 252/0 spread for Crabominable because I haven't looked into what an ideal spread for Crabominable might be yet and I can't be bothered to try and figure out doubles-oriented spreads for the other four mons here until I'm out from under this midterm I'm studying for, so these numbers might not be the final ones you want.
minimum SpA Araquanid Frost Breath vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Primeape on a critical hit: 40-48 (14.7 - 17.7%) -- possible 6HKO
minimum SpA Araquanid Frost Breath vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tauros on a critical hit: 44-52 (15.1 - 17.8%) -- possible 6HKO
minimum SpA Araquanid Frost Breath vs. 140 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt on a critical hit: 38-45 (12 - 14.2%) -- possible 8HKO
minimum SpA Araquanid Frost Breath vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile on a critical hit: 80-96 (24.1 - 29%) -- 99% chance to 4HKO
minimum SpA Araquanid Frost Breath vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Crabominable on a critical hit: 20-24 (5 - 6%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Sounds like an interesting option, pretty gimmicky but it sounds fun, since apparently even Krookodile is left better off than if it hypothetically had access to Belly Drum
 
Here is a possible competitive set:

Araquanid @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Leech Life
- Sleep Talk

- 44 Spe outspeeds Hippowdon.
- With Water Bubble, Waterfall does tremendous damage. This mon kinda reminds me of Azumarill...
252+ Atk Choice Band Surskit Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 156-183 (48.2 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
- Leech Life (80 BP) is pretty useful, because it hits Latios, Serperior, and other pokes that resist Waterfall.
- I wouldn't use Poison Jab, because it sucks (a super effective Posion Jab deals way less damage than a neutral Waterfall). Unless if you want to kill Azumarill, who is actually faster and can KO Araquanid with Band-Boosted Play Rough after Stealth Rock damage.
- Instead, I use Sleep Talk, just in case Araquanid gets put to sleep.


Kinda hyped to use this guy in-game and competitively :)
 
Here is a possible competitive set:

Araquanid @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Leech Life
- Sleep Talk

- 44 Spe outspeeds Hippowdon.
- With Water Bubble, Waterfall does tremendous damage. This mon kinda reminds me of Azumarill...
252+ Atk Choice Band Surskit Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 156-183 (48.2 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
- Leech Life (80 BP) is pretty useful, because it hits Latios, Serperior, and other pokes that resist Waterfall.
- I wouldn't use Poison Jab, because it sucks (a super effective Posion Jab deals way less damage than a neutral Waterfall). Unless if you want to kill Azumarill, who is actually faster and can KO Araquanid with Band-Boosted Play Rough after Stealth Rock damage.
- Instead, I use Sleep Talk, just in case Araquanid gets put to sleep.


Kinda hyped to use this guy in-game and competitively :)
What would go in the fourth moveslot?
 
Here is a possible competitive set:

Araquanid @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Leech Life
- Sleep Talk

- 44 Spe outspeeds Hippowdon.
- With Water Bubble, Waterfall does tremendous damage. This mon kinda reminds me of Azumarill...
252+ Atk Choice Band Surskit Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 156-183 (48.2 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
- Leech Life (80 BP) is pretty useful, because it hits Latios, Serperior, and other pokes that resist Waterfall.
- I wouldn't use Poison Jab, because it sucks (a super effective Posion Jab deals way less damage than a neutral Waterfall). Unless if you want to kill Azumarill, who is actually faster and can KO Araquanid with Band-Boosted Play Rough after Stealth Rock damage.
- Instead, I use Sleep Talk, just in case Araquanid gets put to sleep.


Kinda hyped to use this guy in-game and competitively :)
There is no reason to run 80 BP waterfall over 85 BP liquidation. 20% chance to flinch (when you're slow as fuck) < defense drops to continue wall breaking.
 
I'll probably still use Araquanid on my team when I play through Sun (it looks too damn cool). But online, no way.
If it had a much higher Special Attack and some more Speed, it could be make something of a decent tank... :/
 

dwarfstar

mindless philosopher
Hm I see then

Don't run too many Sleep Talk users, so I didn't know leaving a moveslot empty was a thing
Most Sleep Talk users (Choiced or otherwise) actually don't do this, since they have other moves that actually contribute some utility to the build, but the lack of power on any of Araquanid's other moves makes that a viable choice here. I'm personally not sure if I'd play it that way, but it's not necessarily losing a whole lot.
 
Prior to Gen VII, only Ice-type Pokémon could learn Frost Breath. In Gen VII, Toxapex, Araquanid, Golisopod, and Bruxish all learn it. Of these, Araquanid has the lowest SpAtk (it's 50, though Toxapex is close at 53).

The point is that a non-STAB, low SpAtk Frost Breath can activate your ally's Anger Point without doing much damage to them. It could even activate a Maranga Berry in the bargain. And Araquanid has a lot of space for gimmicky stuff like this since the only attack it really needs in doubles is Liquidation.
Crabominable would be good for this strategy, since it also resists Ice.
 
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Crabominable would be good for this strategy, since it also resists Ice.
Tbh, every Anger Point user would be fine for this strategy. Post #180 has all the calcs, and even Krookodile, who is highest in tier lists and weakest to Ice of all of them, only loses a quarter of its health. Imo Krookodile would be better because its Ground typing takes care of electric- and rock-types while Araquanid takes care of Grass-types.
 
Where are its eyes? Are the eyes the little reddish orange things behind the headlight looking things? Or are those headlights the eyes?

Also, this Pokemon is beautiful. The fact that it's literally a 5'11 water type spider is amazing to me.
 
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Holy crud, just read the edit. So essentially when using a water move this thing effectively has 140 base attack, 100 base Sp. Attack, plus double whatever investment you put into it.

Oh.

Choice scarf that thing up and it's not incredibly slow. Maybe there's hope for the bug yet. You could also run a lefties set with lunge. It's not great as it doesn't get the ridiculous boost from the ability, but 100% Atk drop chance (if that is indeed how it works) could help patch up its defences. Granted it'll probably die quickly due to the opponents 'mon hitting first, but I'm just spit-balling here. I still reckon this set probably works best:

Araquanid @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Water Bubble
Hasty Nature
EVs: 252 Atk, 4 SpA, 252 Spd
Moves:
-Liquidation
-Lunge/Leech Life
-Crunch
-Scald

Naturally you'd always prefer to lock yourself into the devastating Liquidation this thing can pull off, but for coverage you get some pretty decent moves which will at least leave a mark if they're super effective. In the last spot I couldn't really pick a final physical coverage move, but Scald is always a nice utility and it'll be coming off a relatively respectable 100 Sp. Attack with very slight investment.

Like many of the more interesting 'mons this gen, it'll probably never get close to OU, but the lower tiers are about to get some really cool new challengers.
 
It was intentionally left empty so Sleep Talk is more likely to choose Waterfall, plus this thing's coverage isn't great anyway.
wouldn't you want to run both waterfall and liquidation, so you have a 66% chance of using a water move? And to flinch the 10 things slower than it I guess

Holy crud, just read the edit. So essentially when using a water move this thing effectively has 140 base attack, 100 base Sp. Attack, plus double whatever investment you put into it.

Oh.

Choice scarf that thing up and it's not incredibly slow. Maybe there's hope for the bug yet. You could also run a lefties set with lunge. It's not great as it doesn't get the ridiculous boost from the ability, but 100% Atk drop chance (if that is indeed how it works) could help patch up its defences. Granted it'll probably die quickly due to the opponents 'mon hitting first, but I'm just spit-balling here. I still reckon this set probably works best:

Araquanid @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Water Bubble
Hasty Nature
EVs: 252 Atk, 4 SpA, 252 Spd
Moves:
-Liquidation
-Lunge/Leech Life
-Crunch
-Scald

Naturally you'd always prefer to lock yourself into the devastating Liquidation this thing can pull off, but for coverage you get some pretty decent moves which will at least leave a mark if they're super effective. In the last spot I couldn't really pick a final physical coverage move, but Scald is always a nice utility and it'll be coming off a relatively respectable 100 Sp. Attack with very slight investment.

Like many of the more interesting 'mons this gen, it'll probably never get close to OU, but the lower tiers are about to get some really cool new challengers.
you know you don't even outspeed base 90s right
 
Poison Jab for Azumarill or Tapu Bulu for example.
Crunch for Dhelmise, Decidueye or Jellicent.
Liquidation for everything else, and Leech Life.

That's what I would run on a Choice Band set.
Scald would deal less than Liquidation even on Skarmory, and I prefer investing in HP EVs.
 
Where are its eyes? Are the eyes the little reddish orange things behind the headlight looking things? Or are those headlights the eyes?

Also, this Pokemon is beautiful. The fact that it's literally a 5'11 water type spider is amazing to me.
Can someone please answer this? It's been bugging me for a while :pirate:

Also, does anyone think that the Water Bubble 2x on top of the 1.5 stab (not sure if I said the caculations right) part of the ability will get patched? Or maybe it's a mistake?

I really like this Pokemon but I don't want to get too excited yet. It's just weird they didn't mention this in the description. And I'm not sure if Pokemon abilities could have so many effects. This one has 3.
 
Can someone please answer this? It's been bugging me for a while :pirate:

Also, does anyone think that the Water Bubble 2x on top of the 1.5 stab (not sure if I said the caculations right) part of the ability will get patched? Or maybe it's a mistake?

I really like this Pokemon but I don't want to get too excited yet. It's just weird they didn't mention this in the description. And I'm not sure if Pokemon abilities could have so many effects. This one has 3.
Personally I see it as the little reddish orange things, but that's just me.

While it is true that the most simultaneous effects on a single ability seems to be two currently (Though you could argue that some like Sand Force have three since it boosts Rock, Ground and Steel), IMO the three effects of this ability link up with each other well enough for it to be intentional on the part of the developers, but they just didn't have enough space to include all of its effects in the description. If the description had read something like "Halves damage from Fire Moves and Doubles the power of Water Moves", we would probably have taken it at face value and not batted an eye when it turned out to protect from burns also.
 
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Also, does anyone think that the Water Bubble 2x on top of the 1.5 stab (not sure if I said the caculations right) part of the ability will get patched? Or maybe it's a mistake?
The ability is really strong, yes, but that's why they gave it to a shitmon. The question is of course, why not just give Araquanid a good stat spread instead of creating a godlike ability that will undoubtedly end up on some other Pokemon and make it broken beyond believe?
 
The ability is really strong, yes, but that's why they gave it to a shitmon. The question is of course, why not just give Araquanid a good stat spread instead of creating a godlike ability that will undoubtedly end up on some other Pokemon and make it broken beyond believe?
Well if we consider Shedinja, who is basically in a similar but much, much worse situation (Having a way more broken ability but absolutely un-salvageable stats), its probably so that Araquanid has something 'unique' about it to set it apart, like most of the other Pokemon introduced in this generation.
 

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