Defunct CAP Buff 2: Pyroak

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Bloopyghost

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Contrary seems a bit weird especially if its going to be able to boost with both Overheat and Leaf Storm, seems like it could get a bit oppressive since its bulky enough to make itself beat Tornadus/Zapdos 1v1 and there doesnt seem to be anything else that really handles it defensively.
While Contrary is one of my preferred options, it’ll raise the power ceiling so high Pyroak will actually very likely require some nerfing. Even despite being weak to rocks and being slow asf; Pyroak’s bulk, coverage, two boosting moves, access to Aromatherapy, and potentially 16 PP recovery altogether will make Pyroak unhealthy should it get Contrary.

Da Pizza Man argued to cut Leaf Storm in an earlier post if we get Contrary, and I agree with their points. And I’ll vouch for a slight bulk cut in addition to snapping Leaf Storm so it won’t be bulky enough to just set up in your face, assuming we do decide on Contrary.

Chlorophyll doesnt need to worry so much about Sun going out of favor
I am also very confused by this statement and the stuff after it. Even if Chloro Pyroak ends up being the best sun sweeper of all time by a huge margin, it won't matter if sun isn't around, and Pyroak isn’t going to make sun viable alone.
 
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While Contrary is one of my preferred options, it’ll raise the power ceiling so high Pyroak will actually very likely require some nerfing. Even despite being weak to rocks and being slow asf; Pyroak’s bulk, coverage, two boosting moves, access to Aromatherapy, and potentially 16 PP recovery altogether will make Pyroak unhealthy should it get Contrary.

Da Pizza Man argued to cut Leaf Storm in an earlier post if we get Contrary, and I agree with their points. And I’ll vouch for a slight bulk cut in addition to snapping Leaf Storm so it won’t be bulky enough to just set up in your face, assuming we do decide on Contrary.


I am also very confused by this statement and the stuff after it. Even if Chloro Pyroak ends up being the best sun sweeper of all time by a huge margin, it won't matter if sun isn't around, and Pyroak isn’t going to make sun viable alone.
Well Sun is viable, because its always ranked on the VR and it has been for a very long time, so I dont worry about it because its placement isnt volatile and I dont really see that trend changing. At its worst its never going to fall out of fringe viability and adding its strongest offensive threat by far would arguably further anchor it as a decent playstyle. Perhaps you think its unviable because its rarely seen, but stuff like Sun/Hail/Rain can go without being used by our small playerbase for a long time just because noone who likes the playstyle is currently using it. But thats just the nature of our tier. If your point is that we shouldnt attach it to a rare playstyle even if it makes it viable (aiming to maximize usage?..), then I dont really know where I stand with that.
 

quziel

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[4:24 PM] Brambane:
I think roak has potentially to be legitimately nuts with Chlorophyll despite not fixing the archetype and

[4:24 PM] Brambane:
I don't like that paradoxical presentation
[4:24 PM] Brambane:

Where the archetype is bad but the main abuser is monsterous

This has always been my issue with Sun to a degree, even with Venusaur. The style itself is bad, lets not get it twisted; it still has matchups where it basically instantly wins given a single misplay. Pyroak will probably only increase this by being basically Venusaur but its fire stab is a bit stronger (not that much stronger note; you can't really hold LO). Frankly the main benefit for sun is going to be running both Venu and Roak to break for eachother. This may bring it into viability (I would argue its current ranking may be a bit overrated), but honestly will just make the style a slightly more effective fringe viable HO team. That doesn't really benefit the meta at all, honestly makes building a bit more strained than it already was, and means that if sun ever drops out of viability using roak is gonna be even harder than usual. Chloro roak doesn't fix sun, as sun's issue isn't its abusers (they're very good), but rather how awkward its setters are to build with.

note: hail doesn't have the same issue because Veil 9tales offers a ton to a team, and also to a lesser degree it can run spdef Lando to check heatran, which isn't available to sun (Sun boosted Magma go brr).
 

spoo

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I'll be making a long post going into my thoughts on specific abilities eventually, but right now I want to share two (subjective) baseline assumptions that are informing how I approach each potential buff.

1) 16pp is worth accommodating for on the vast majority of buff packages. I've yet to see a buff that both a) needs weaknesses to be introduced in other areas, and b) suggests that our recovery is the ideal place to introduce this weakness and not somewhere else. I would rather, for example, slightly tune back stats + 16pp recovery than keep stats as-is with 8pp recovery (assuming both routes lead to the same overall power-level). This is because 8pp recovery affects us much more prominently in drawn-out matchups while other adjustments would be felt in every game. I want to avoid weaknesses that can be more matchup-reliant, as I believe having consistent expectations for how Pyroak will perform in any match is important for our success.

2) I also believe we should do all that we can do avoid introducing a polarizing offensive presence into the tier. If you have played or built CAP in any serious (or even informal) capacity since venomicon's release, it's hard to deny that the tier is dangerously strained due to the saturation of offensive threats you have to answer. Building a team that's consistent across the entire spectrum of offensive threats is a super lofty goal, and you're often forced to just cope versus some shit in the builder. Having another annoying breaker / sweeper you need to check in the builder or else you'll get 6-0'd is really the worst-case scenario of this buff IMO. Not to be dramatic, but it's difficult to overstate how important this point is to me –– it feels like our meta is at a tipping point of sorts, and I want to do everything in our power to not introduce another matchup-reliant or otherwise straining element that introduces even further stress on the tier.
 

Lasen

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Right-o! We've had ample time to discuss individual buffs and I am quite pleased with the direction that thread moved in. So now it's time to discuss buff packages! The way this works is that you will be submitting neatly packed combinations of buffs either major or minor (and optionally, nerfs if you want to suggest something quite strong). An example post would be "+Solar Power, +7 Spe, +1 HP, -Growl". Be sure to justify any changes in a package with calculations and specific references to Pokemon in the meta. After a few days, I'll use my discretion as the Buff Leader to put together a slate with some of the buff packages, leaving the thread open for a bit for discussion. After that, everyone's favorite stage: voting!

Make sure to tag your posts as WIP when you're still working on it and Final Submission (or at the bare minimum remove the "WIP")when you are actually done! If you forget to edit your post, I will not be taking it into consideration! Happy posting and Happy National Corn Chip day!
 

Astra

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Final Submission

+ Grassy Surge
+ Slack Off
+ Stone Edge
+ 25 Attack
+ 15 Speed
- White Smoke
- 25 Special Attack

These buffs allow Pyroak to act as an offensive tank with various different options to play with. Grassy Surge helps Pyroak a lot by giving it passive recovery without giving up Heavy-Duty Boots, allowing it to effectively use Grassy Glide, and reducing the damage from Earthquake. Slack Off gifts it with reliable recovery it may find useful if it chooses to prioritize the tank in offensive tank. Stone Edge gives it a good option against Flying-types, though these buffs as a whole open it up to use High Horsepower instead, particularly targeting Heatran, so its move option won't be so cut and dry. Swords Dance will also always be an option as well.

Boosting Pyroak Attack up to 95 allows it to always 2HKO Corviknight after Stealth Rock (the chances without Stealth Rock are incredibly high as well) or OHKO it after a Swords Dance boost. Bumping its Speed up to 75 lets it always outspeed Corviknight with maximum Speed investment. It also grants it a fairly decent Speed tier for facing Pokemon like Zapdos and Volcanion. I was thinking about making it faster than Heatran, but I'm not entirely sure if that would be needed or not.

I shaved off some of its Special Attack in order to prevent it from potentially running special or mixed sets as effectively. I'm thinking about lowering its Special Defense as well.
 
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Final Submission

+ Drought
- Rock Head
+ 25 Speed
+ Taunt


The two major takeaways of this buff package are the ability change and the added Speed. Pyroak currently has no niche, but with these buffs, I believe it can now run two viable sets: An offensive Growth sweeper that uses its sunlight for itself or a Sun support set that is happy to share its rays of sunshine with its teammates. I believe the former set would definitely be more viable, however, I think the Sun support set would at least be a little better than Torkoal, which currently sits at B- on the Viability Rankings.

My buff package is currently the only one that has Drought but keeps Growth, and I plan on leaning into that and ensuring that it becomes a good Growth sweeper. Drought allows Pyroak to use this move to its fullest without having to rely on a teammate to give it sun support (which is why I believe it is better than Chlorophyll), and it also boosts its Fire STABs. The added Speed is also crucial to the Growth sweeper set, I have opted for a faster Pyroak than most packages have so far, most have shot for 70 Speed, but I decided to take it a step further, or rather 15 steps further. This extra push allows Pyroak to always outspeed Heatran, even if Heatran is running maximum investment (provided it has no Air Balloon), and not only this, it doesn't even need to run max Speed to outspeed every form of Heatran, allowing it to put some of investment into its bulk. With it now being as fast as Nidoking and now having access to a 2+ Sp. Attack boosting move in addition to a Fire STAB boost, Pyroak is now a much more passable offensive threat. It's now essentially a faster Volcanion that can recover and boost its Sp. Attack, which is pretty cool! While Pyroak would excel against slower teams with its excellent coverage, I don't think this set would be overbearing at all due to the popularity of offensive Flying types in the tier and its inability to take Knock Off well.

Pyroak @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Drought
EVs: 64 Def / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain / Synthesis
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Growth

I don't know if the extra investment would go into its physical or special bulk, put it into physical bulk for now.

Now I'll talk about the Sun support set. I believe that this would not be as good as the Growth set, but it would be able to have a place in the metagame, albeit a small one, and would replace Torkoal as the premier sun setter of the tier. Over Torkoal, Pyroak has recovery (with Drought boosting Synthesis), is able to hit Water types with super-effective STAB, and also two of my buffs, being Taunt and the extra speed. Taunt was added to this buff package specifically with the Sun support set in mind, this move is mainly useful for Clefable, as Taunt prevents it from healing up the damage Pyroak does to it. This may not be used on every Sun support set, but I think it would be able to be viable.

Obviously, this set aims to allow its teammates to take advantage of sun. You got Venusaur, your cookie cutter sun abuser that turns into a faster version of the Growth Pyroak set from earlier (though I could honestly see Growth Pyroak putting Venusaur out of commission), you have Victini, whose sun boosted V-create makes it a nightmare for any team without a Heatran to switch into, and Equilibra, whose Water weakness is softened by sun and provides hazard removal for Pyroak. Sun support Pyroak has clear issues, namely having to forgo Heavy-Duty Boots for Heat Rock in order to properly give sun support as well as its Sun partners being not as good at best and worthless at worst if sun is not up. However, as said earlier, I think it'd at least have an edge over the currently best Sun setter, Torkoal.

Pyroak @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Def / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Synthesis / Giga Drain
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock / Giga Drain / Taunt

None of Pyroak's abilities are any good at all, but I believe Rock Head is the most expendable. Battle Armor at least stops critical hits and White Smoke is at least helpful against Astrolotl's Fire Lash. The only thing Rock Head does is buff moves that Pyroak will never use, and is therefore the least useful out of its current abilities.

Now this next part is important because I have heard people talking about this: I do not agree that there already being 2 Grass CAPs with Drought is a reason to not give it to Pyroak. If Jumbao and Malaconda actually UTILIZED Drought, I would understand this reasoning. But Jumbao would rather run Trace and Malaconda is an unsalvagable pile of crap. Pyroak, on the other hand, has the tools to effectively utilize Drought, as Pyroak has Fire STAB and Growth. Please keep this in mind, because I know a lot of people will jump to this.
 
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snake

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Final Submission

+ Contrary
+ Slack Off
- White Smoke
- Leaf Storm


Contrary has seemed decently popular in the thread, and it's by far my favorite ability for Pyroak to leverage (with physical Grassy Surge in second place). Contrary allows Pyroak to play as an offensive tank and doesn't also require drastic stat changes to Pyroak's current stat line. Because Leaf Storm was added in Gen 8 per this thread, it is removed alongside Contrary so that Pyroak only has access to Contrary + Overheat as its main attacking combo. With Contrary + Overheat, Pyroak force switches and utilize the coverage and utility it already has. Additionally, it comes with two defensive merits: turning the tables on Astrolotl's Fire Lash and potentially Dragapult's Shadow Ball. Slack Off allows Pyroak to avoid relying on the thoroughly underwhelming Synthesis. Spoo made a good point in the Discord that while Synthesis would limit Pyroak's longevity, it wouldn't make Pyroak's peak cases and worse, just less consistent. I agree that Slack Off just allows Pyroak to act a bit more consistently.

Here's a sample set I see it running:

Pyroak @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 196 SpA / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Earth Power
- Giga Drain / Toxic / Stealth Rock / Aromatherapy
- Slack Off

Overheat allows Pyroak to boost its Special Attack, which means that Earth Power and Giga Drain are suddenly a lot more offensively threatening. Fire / Grass / Ground is nearly perfect coverage, allowing Pyroak to strike Heatran and Astrolotl and heal back with boosted Giga Drain as necessary. Alternatively, Toxic, Stealth Rock, or Aromatherapy could be used, as Fire + Ground coverage is very serviceable on its own. The EVs outspeed Corviknight, the bulk tanks Choice Band Urshifu-R's Close Combat after Stealth Rock Damage and comfortably tanks any move that Melmetal throws at it. I think heavy Special Attack EV investment is necessary because Pyroak needs to hit decently hard at +0.

While Contrary is a strong ability, this buffed Pyroak is not without fault. Although it can very easily boost to +2, it's still Pyroak until it actually gets the Overheat off. This means that it's still very vulnerable to Toxic, Knock Off, and the plethora of Flying-types present in the metagame. Additionally, without any kind of speed buff, Pyroak is still very slow. For example, Pyroak could outspeed uninvested Landorus-T by running max speed Modest, but all Landorus-T has to do is add a couple EVs in Speed to avoid that.

I am considering a minor Speed buff (somewhere around +5 or maybe +10). I haven't decided if this is truly necessary, though.

Overall, I like the simplicity of this buff. Change its Hidden Ability and remove an attack that was added this gen. and add a better recovery move that nearly everyone agrees that it should have.

EDIT: saw some concerns for Slack Off over Synthesis being too powerful, so I'm removing it for now.


EDIT 2: Nah Slack Off is just more consistent than Synthesis.
 
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dex

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Final Submission

+Magic Guard
-Rock Head
+Slack Off
+10 Spe
-10 SpD
-Amnesia


Magic Guard allows Pyroak to inhabit one of two roles: Life Orb attacker or Bulky Utility. Magic Guard in general makes Pyroak an incredibly sturdy check to Heatran, making it the best Toxic-immune check to the mon. This allows it to be quite easy to place on a team. With regards to the former role, Magic Guard allows Pyroak to fire off powerful Life Orb boosted Lava Plumes, which in conjunction with Toxic and Leech Seed, makes Pyroak a dangerous user of residual damage. In the latter role, Magic Guard allows Pyroak to easily switch in without fear of Knock Off or Toxic from defensive Pokemon like Toxapex and Ferrothorn, easily forcing both out with Leech Seed and Lava Plume. It also beats common defoggers like Landorus-T and Corviknight, Magic Guard being particularly helpful against the former. The additional Speed allows Pyroak to outspeed Corviknight without investment, not allowing it to U-turn on it. The addition of Slack Off helps further improve Magic Guard Roak's already good longevity. The reduction in SpD and the removal of Amnesia makes Hurricane users like Tornadus and Zapdos sturdy checks to it.
 
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WIP

+18 Speed
+Grassy Surge
-White Smoke
+Calm Mind



Looking at a more special Grassy Terrain abuser than existing options and leaning into Pyroak's good offensive grass typing that enjoys the extra coverage brought by its Fire STAB. Grassy Terrain lets Pyroak play into some more defensive and offensive sets at the same time, providing an extra source of healing on defensive sets and an extra source of damage on offensive sets. Of course with Calm Mind, this gets emphasized a bit more on the offensive front that we want to keep as our focus. I think our attempt at becoming a physical attacker is unsalvageable unless it gets hyper buffed in that respect, while special doesn't need major stat buffs comparatively when paired with this new ability.

I don't know if adding Slack Off too is too much or not, would like some thoughts on that. Also looking at replacing White Smoke, it feels like the most expendable of the 3 abilities to me from both a competitive and flavour point of view. Might want to replace Rock Head instead, since this direction is much more specially inclined and that ability becomes kinda useless here. Will post more details/calcs about this later.

EDIT1: Removed Slack Off. 4MSS makes it hard to fit in with Grassy Surge. For some general calcs with a set of Fire/Grass/Ground STAB + Calm Mind. Also assumed HDB or Leftovers as the item, but with the latent healing from Grassy Surge, we can probably afford to go for a more offensive item such as Life Orb as well.

Current Pyroak:

Vs Corv (outspeeds us)
252+ SpA Pyroak Overheat vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Corviknight: 390-458 (97.7 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Pyroak Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Corviknight: 270- 318 (67.6 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Vs Heatran (literally always outspeeds us)
252+ SpA Pyroak Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Heatran: 268-316 (69.4 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Vs Garchomp
252+ SpA Pyroak Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 216-255 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Pyroak Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 216-255 (60.5 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Pyroak Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 150-177 (42 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Vs Arghonaut (literally always outspeeds us)
252+ SpA Pyroak Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arghonaut: 374-444 (90.3 - 107.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Pyroak Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 132 SpD Arghonaut: 330-390 (79.7 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Vs The Pex
252+ SpA Pyroak Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 204 SpD Toxapex: 120-142 (39.4 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Pyroak Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 204 SpD Toxapex: 84-99 (27.6 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Pyroak Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 204 SpD Toxapex: 112-132 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Vs Slowking
252+ SpA Pyroak Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 254-300 (64.4 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Pyroak Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 176-210 (44.6 - 53.2%) -- 28.1% chance to 2HKO

Vs Tapu Fini in Misty Terrain
252+ SpA Pyroak Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Tapu Fini: 290-344 (84.3 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Pyroak Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Tapu Fini: 204-240 (59.3 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

My proposed changes:

Vs Corv (we outspeed)
252+ SpA Life Orb Pyroak Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Corviknight: 424-502 (106.2 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Pyroak Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Corviknight: 402-474 (100.7 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Vs Heatran (we outspeed)
252+ SpA Life Orb Pyroak Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Heatran: 348-411 (90.1 - 106.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Pyroak Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Heatran: 396-468 (102.5 - 121.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Vs Garchomp
252+ SpA Life Orb Pyroak Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp in Grassy Terrain: 364-429 (86.6 - 102.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Pyroak Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp in Grassy Terrain: 418-493 (99.5 - 117.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Pyroak Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp in Grassy Terrain: 376-445 (89.5 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Pyroak Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp in Grassy Terrain: 418-493 (117 - 138%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Pyroak Energy Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp in Grassy Terrain: 289-342 (80.9 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Vs Arghonaut (outspeeds us without investment)
252+ SpA Pyroak Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 132 SpD Arghonaut in Grassy Terrain: 428-506 (103.3 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Pyroak Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 132 SpD Arghonaut in Grassy Terrain: 385-455 (92.9 - 109.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Pyroak Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arghonaut in Grassy Terrain: 439-517 (106 - 124.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Pyroak Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arghonaut in Grassy Terrain: 338-398 (81.6 - 96.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


Vs The Pex
+1 252+ SpA Pyroak Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 204 SpD Toxapex in Grassy Terrain: 160-190 (52.6 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
+1 252+ SpA Pyroak Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 204 SpD Toxapex: 166-196 (54.6 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Vs Slowking
252+ SpA Pyroak Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking in Grassy Terrain: 230-272 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Pyroak Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking in Grassy Terrain: 429-507 (108.8 - 128.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Pyroak Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking in Grassy Terrain: 492-582 (124.8 - 147.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Pyroak Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking in Grassy Terrain: 342-404 (86.8 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Pyroak Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking in Grassy Terrain: 445-525 (112.9 - 133.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Vs Tapu Fini
252+ SpA Pyroak Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Tapu Fini in Grassy Terrain: 378-446 (109.8 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Pyroak Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Tapu Fini in Grassy Terrain: 338-400 (98.2 - 116.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Pyroak Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Tapu Fini: 434-512 (126.1 - 148.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

in Misty Terrain
252+ SpA Life Orb Pyroak Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Tapu Fini: 377-447 (109.5 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Pyroak Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Tapu Fini: 302-356 (87.7 - 103.4%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Pyroak Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Tapu Fini: 393-463 (114.2 - 134.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Edit 2: I haven't gotten any feedback on the first WIP, so I'm not sure what is wrong with it or how I can improve it. So as per Lasen's latest post, I guess here's a second similar WIP.

WIP2
+Glare
+Contrary
-White Smoke
-Overheat
+18 Speed


Slowperior. We have the bulk to take in a hit, so we are able to set up on our own attacks. We can also try to give ourselves a turn or a minor advantage with Glare. At+18 speed, we can also outspeed Heatran at base, and we can outspeed some other strong Pokemon that can hit us pretty hard like Tornadus or Weavile when Paralyzed.

EDIT: I replaced Overheat instead of Leaf Storm. This makes the +18 speed and Glare a bit more defendable as a buff, since we are forcing ourselves to bring Grass STAB in order to boost, rather than using the stronger Fire STAB crutch. It makes us fall victim to 4MSS a bit more, but it gives us more flexibility with buffing other aspects of Contrary Pyroak.
 
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final sub

+Defiant
-White Smoke
+35 attack
-25 spattack
+10 speed


goal here is to make oak playable while keeping as many of its existing tools as possible (ie trying to avoid drastic defense cuts, removing moves, etc). right now its main strengths are great natural bulk and fire/grass/ground coverage so i'm trying to lean into that

swapping attack and special attack for defiant, then adding +10 more attack since 105 looks a lot bigger than 95. this also helps you use rockhead better if you're into that sort of thing.

defiant makes you a rocker that can fuck up defoggers which is kinda sick. calcs below assume 105 base attack, 252 HP and attack ev's, and adamant nature

Astro cant touch you and if you come in when it clicks lash or defog +2 EQ oneshots with attack invest.
252+ Atk Pyroak Earthquake vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Astrolotl: 264-312 (72.1 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Pyroak Earthquake vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Astrolotl: 528-622 (144.2 - 169.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO



lando cant switch in either cause it gets chunked at +1 and ur fat as fuck so u live 2 eq from 0 invest lando at full
+1 252+ Atk Pyroak Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 304-358 (79.5 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Pyroak: 144-169 (32.4 - 38%) -- 96.3% chance to 3HKO


torn still kills you to death no matter what but such is life. maybe you can pray for hurricane miss idk.
252 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Pyroak: 350-414 (78.8 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

reminder that anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot
 
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Final Submission

+ 50 Attack
+ 20 Speed
- 10 Special Attack
+ Slack Off


results in 120/120/105/85/90/80 (600 BST)

Becomes a threatening dragon dancer with dual 120 BP stab + EQ backed by Rock Head. 80 base speed is fast enough to get by at +1, outspeeding the metagame as well as initially outspeeding all mid speed and defensive mons (Heatran and under). It can run either Dragon Dance 3 atks, or DD/Slack Off/Flare Blitz/EQ to capitalize on its bulk. The mons main specialty is using its enormous bulk and generally neutral typing to ensure it gets a dragon dance (or often 2, pretty much guaranteed under screens), and then starts blowing stuff up thanks to its unusually high bp and reliable stab moves for a sweeper.
Overall small buff for defensive Pyroak spreads also, though not really the main point. The main sell of this package is keeping some of Pyroaks legacy as a Rock Head dragon dancer instead of completely changing it into something new

Slack Off was added to improve its reliability across all sets and as a request from others.

some calcs:
+1 252 Atk Pyroak Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian: 331-391 (91.4 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Pyroak Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Landorus-Therian: 204-240 (53.4 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pyroak: 144-169 (37.7 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252 Atk Pyroak Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 166-196 (54.6 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As you can see +1 Pyroak is a threat vs offensive mons and it also has a really good time taking hits when setting up. Its medium speed is made up for by it being able to collect multiple boosts as well as taking hits from scarfers like Astro, Fini, Bao, and Lando due to a mix of bulk and neutral typing.
On the other hand, you can definitely handle Pyroak with things like status, chipping it down and intimidating it etc thanks to it only boosting 1 stage at a time and its starting medium speed- it doesnt always OHKO defensive pokemon after a single boost so there is room for counterplay if it isnt brought out at the right time. The mon seems like it would be a natural fit for screens which maximizes its already high bulk to grab even more boosts.
 
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Brambane

protect the wetlands
is a Contributor Alumnus
Final Submission

+Spore
+Recover
+Berserk
+10 SpA
+5 Spe
-Battle Armor


Spore is an extremely good move, especially on a Pokemon that can threaten the Spore absorbers (Ferrothorn and Tapu Fini in particular.) Recover because Pyroak's healing is utter trash. The mon desperately needs some kind of healing buff to leverage its stats and Electric/Fairy resists. Berserk has good synergy with Recover and gives Pyroak a legitimate way to leverage its offensive STABS. I went with Berserk as an offensive buff because it does have some form of counterplay (such as letting Toxic damage through Berserk range.) I am fairly confident that Spore would be such a strong buff that a more consistently powerful ability would push Pyroak to overbearing levels. +5 Spe allows Pyroak to naturally outpace Clefable and reduces the amount of Speed needed to bypass Arghonaut and Clefable. +10 SpA give Pyroak a much appreciated boost to its offensive power, but nothing super overkill. Most notably, 4 SpA Pyroak can now always 2HKO SpDef Heatran with Earth Power, even accounting for Leftovers coverage. Since Spore + Recover would force Pyroak to drop an offensive coverage, I wanted to ensure its Earth Power was decently strong since Fire/Ground coverage offers the most in the current meta. I removed Battle Armor instead of the other abilities since White Smoke has niche application against Astrolotl while Rock Head is for the DD fanboys out there, even if its trash.
 
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WIP

+30 atk
+15 speed
+20 special atk
+drought
-white smoke
-Growth


Wanted to let pyroak keep it's current role of bulky special attacking tank while also letting it use it's high bp stab moves and rock head ability to serve as a sweeper, but not both as once. This way pyroak can fit on a wider amount of teams depending on what is needed and gives it somes unpredictability, but since both sets largely keep the same answers it shouldn't be a coin flip when it first comes in.

First off, both pyroak sets appreciate a speed buff. Base 75 means that adamant max speed outspeeds up to and including base 120s (Alakazam, Kerfluffle, Cawmodore) but slower than base 121 (Tornadus-T, Syclant) after a dragon dance boost, while jolly max speed outspeeds everything below +speed pult at +1. Unboosted, you have a higher base speed than corviknight, skarmory, and volcanion to blast them before they can get off a defog/brave bird/fire blast, while tying base speed with arghonaut (not that anyone is running any speed on argh).

Bringing Pyroak's attack up to 100 brings it in line with another bulky dragon dancer, zygarde, which also relied on bulk rather than just raw power and speed. A super high attack stat isn't needed since Pyroak has such high powered stabs and the bulk to even grab two boosts if behind screens or just given some defensive EVs. Honestly there isn't to much to say, all DDroak needed was a raw ATK buff.

Special tank sets get the ability that almost defined Pyroak's existence so many years ago - Greenhouse! Just kidding, it's drought. Giving both an offensive buff through boosted fire attacks and solarbeam (although giga drain still remains a consideration for healing, reliability, and opposing weather setters), while also helping defensively by finally giving Pyroak a water resist (at the cost of some more fire weakness). This along with a big spat increase means when you switch into those steel, water, and electric types whose attacks you eat up, you can fire back with huge fire blasts complemented by solarbeams and earth power for coverage. And of course, synthesis is now powered up to help you stay healthy to keep up the pressure, at least for a little while.

Still early WIP, want to do a lot of calcs to see if any of the stat buffs need tweaking. Thanks for reading.
 
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WIP

+30 atk
+15 speed
+20 special atk
+drought
-white smoke
Just wondered, have you considered Growth with this setup? You would have a mon that as you mentioned can easily collect a boost, and when its growth it also has 100atk 115spa to try and guess between, so +2 flare blitzes and +2 fire blasts obliterate any wall in combination with EQ. It seems like it could get a little oppressive as a mixed breaker, outspeeding and wrecking everything defensive and trading well with most things offensive while also requiring some scouting to find if its growth or dragon dance. I like drought just not sure if you want it to be able to Growth in that situation with boosting its offenses. Fire Blast/EQ/Growth/Synthesis as an example set
 

DetroitLolcat

Maize and Blue Badge Set 2014-2017
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Final Submission

+35 Atk
+10 Speed
-15 SpA
+Flash Fire
-White Smoke
+Stone Edge
+Leaf Blade
+Sleep Powder
+Stun Spore
+420 Pounds


New stats: 120 / 105/ 105 / 80 / 90 / 70 (BST: 570)

Classic DDOak is back, with a couple modern twists and in a metagame far more suited to its power level. While Pyroak might not have the Attack or Speed of many other Dragon Dance sweepers, its bulk and wood-fired 120 BP, no drawback attacks let it more than hold its own against CAP's modern creations. Furthermore, this new-and-improved Pyroak serves as a setup sweeper that can switch into any non-Toxic Heatran and either cripple or outright demolish it thanks to Flash Fire and Sleep Powder.

And that extra 35 base Attack came from pumping some serious iron (and taking dubiously legal vitamins), buffing its weight to nearly a half-ton and giving it 80 BP Heat Crashes against Ferrothorn and 120 against most other things. You're kinda fucked against Melmetal but it doesn't do anything back.

Now, Pyroak has two viable abilities: Rock Head for blasting off Flare Blitzes and Wood Hammers, and Flash Fire to serve as the ultimate Heatran annihilator.

Potential sets:

KO Machine:

Pyroak @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Wood Hammer / Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Stone Edge

Heatran Deletran

Pyroak @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Heat Crash / Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- Sleep Powder / Leaf Blade / Stone Edge / Synthesis

Basiclaly checks and counters are the normal shit. Toxapex sucks, landorus can come in and toxic you, pult still revenges at +1 (but torn-t doesn't get fucked).

Neat shit is that this is a physical sweeper that shreds the slowtwins (if wood hammer), so slowbro can't just free switch in and teleport to pult or whatever.

And Stone Edge does matter for Flying-types, IMO. Check out these calcs against common birdies:

+1 252 Atk Pyroak Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian: 303-357 (83.7 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Pyroak Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian: 338-398 (93.3 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

+1 252 Atk Pyroak Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Zapdos: 288-340 (89.7 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Pyroak Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Zapdos: 320-378 (99.6 - 117.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

+1 252 Atk Pyroak Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomicon-Epilogue: 289-342 (92.9 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Pyroak Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venomicon-Epilogue: 322-380 (103.5 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 Atk Pyroak Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Venomicon: 229-270 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Pyroak Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Venomicon: 254-300 (67.9 - 80.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

So Stone Edge might be more of a "nice to have" than a necessity, but it isn't pure movepool bloat. It gives Pyroak a distinctive edge against Tornadus, Zapdos, and E-Book, while also giving Roak a chance to OHKO Book after SR if you can knock the book's boots. It also gives Roak a W against balloon tran.
 
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WIP #1

+Competitive
-White Smoke
+20 Special Attack
+10 Speed


My goal here was to keep Pyroak's classic role as a bulky special attacking rocker intact while also giving it a new tool to improve on this role and help it beat hazard removers: Competitive. Competitive combined with the increased SpA allows Pyroak to threaten hazard removers like Corviknight, Astrolotl, Tornadus-T, and Tapu Fini more effectively and have a shot of knocking them out after a Competitive boost and with Special Attack investment. The Speed increase improves Pyroak's godawful Speed tier.

Potential Set:
Pyroak @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Giga Drain
- Earth Power

Calcs:
252 SpA Pyroak Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 342-404 (85.5 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Pyroak Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 680-804 (170 - 201%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Pyroak Earth Power vs. 36 HP / 252 SpD Astrolotl: 188-222 (51.3 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Pyroak Earth Power vs. 36 HP / 252 SpD Astrolotl: 374-442 (102.1 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Pyroak Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 360-424 (99.4 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Pyroak Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 40+ SpD Tapu Fini: 318-374 (92.4 - 108.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
 
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Lasen

smiling through it all
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
semi-mod post: I have asked the mod team after a discussion on discord and users are allowed to submit more than 1 buff package. However, to make sure that people don't "brute force" packages and to avoid clutter, I'll be asking you politely to not add 4 packages per post as it makes it less likely you will get through. You can continue posting and I'll be back with feedback within the week!
 
+Chlorophyll
+ Contrary
- Rock Head
- White smoke

End of buff. Easy and effective. And leaves him with multiple ways to be effective without changing stats or moves
I don't really see the point of adding both of the abilities at once. Each one is already capable of establishing a niche for Pyroak, so it's not like stacking the two is particularly helpful. If you believe in Chlorophyll, it might be better to just center this buff around Chlorophyll and consider what might be needed for that route, considering no one else has submitted a Chlorophyll buff. If you really want to stick with both abilities, I would suggest removing at least one of Leaf Storm or Overheat for the reasons discussed in previous Contrary posts. Pyroak having access to 16PP of 130 BP boosting is absurdly strong, and letting it have both of those probably needs either nerfs elsewhere or some kind of further explanation.

WIP

+Competitive
-White Smoke
+20 Special Attack
+10 Speed
-Growth


My goal here was to keep Pyroak's classic role as a bulky special attacking rocker intact while also giving it a new tool to improve on this role and help it beat hazard removers: Competitive. Competitive combined with the increased SpA allows Pyroak to threaten hazard removers like Corviknight, Astrolotl, Tornadus-T, and Tapu Fini more effectively and have a shot of knocking them out after a Competitive boost and with Special Attack investment. The Speed increase improves Pyroak's godawful Speed tier, and I removed Growth because it does have nasty snowballing potential in combination with Competitive.

Potential Set:
Pyroak @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Giga Drain
- Earth Power

Calcs:
252 SpA Pyroak Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 342-404 (85.5 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Pyroak Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 680-804 (170 - 201%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Pyroak Earth Power vs. 36 HP / 252 SpD Astrolotl: 188-222 (51.3 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Pyroak Earth Power vs. 36 HP / 252 SpD Astrolotl: 374-442 (102.1 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Pyroak Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 360-424 (99.4 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Pyroak Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 40+ SpD Tapu Fini: 318-374 (92.4 - 108.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Minor nitpick, but Growth is weak enough outside of sun that its snowballing potential doesn't seem worth worrying about, and in sun it is not likely to offer enough to make an appearance anyways.
 
Final Submission

+Chlorophyll
-Rock Head
+10 Speed
-25 def
-10 SpD


Chlorophyll would make Pyroak an incredibly threatening Sun Sweeper capable of 2hkoing almost every Mon in the tier just with Fire Blast after a growth boost and threatening most of the remaining answers with One of its coverage moves. The Speed buff allows it to run a Modest nature and still outspeed Scarf Tapu Lele in Sun.
The defense nerfs add potential offensive checks like Scarf Astro, Urshifu or Terrakion, Scarf or Specs Latios or Gapdosas answering roak defensively becomes very hard after a boost.

it’s still bulky enough to reliably set up on a lot of different mons.

While this would tie roaks viability to Sun teams, it would become an irreplaceable threat for these and while other buffs might result in a higher overall viability, this buff would guarantee it a niche in any meta unless the core weather mechanic itself would be changed.

Potential Set:
Pyroak @ Heavy-Duty Boots/Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Growth
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Solar Beam/Giga Drain/Toxic/Synthesis

Relevant Calcs

Offensive
+2 252+ SpA Pyroak Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragapult in Sun: 301-355 (94.9 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Pyroak Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragapult in Sun: 301-355 (94.9 - 111.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ SpA Pyroak Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex in Sun: 175-207 (57.5 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Pyroak Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 255-301 (83.8 - 99%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ SpA Pyroak Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Heatran: 528-624 (136.7 - 161.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Pyroak Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey in Sun: 366-432 (51.2 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Pyroak Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey in Sun: 476-562 (66.6 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ SpA Pyroak Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 468-552 (118.7 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Pyroak Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar in Sun: 229-270 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Pyroak Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ SpA Pyroak Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios in Sun: 218-257 (72.4 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Pyroak Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios in Sun: 283-334 (94 - 110.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ SpA Pyroak Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Arghonaut: 344-408 (83 - 98.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Pyroak Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Arghonaut: 218-258 (52.6 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Defensive
252 Atk Astrolotl Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pyroak in Sun: 313-369 (82.1 - 96.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pyroak: 237-279 (62.2 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pyroak: 392-464 (102.8 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Zapdos-Galar Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pyroak: 458-542 (120.2 - 142.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Pyroak: 382-450 (100.2 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Pyroak: 318-375 (83.4 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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D2TheW

Amadán
Final Sub
+ No Guard
- White Smoke
+ 20 SpAtk
+ 15 Speed
+ Inferno
+ Slack Off

Most of the more obvious approaches have been subbed by other people, so I'm gonna try something a bit more off beat. This version of pyroak is aiming to lean into it's grass type heritage by doing what most good grass types have historically done: be annoying as hell. While the addition of inferno makes it look like the focus here, the main focus is actually a move Roak already has: Zap Cannon. Roaks ability to scare the shit out of most ground and electric types let's it act as an amazing spreader of the yellow magic. The spatk boost hits some nice 2hkos listed below and is generally a much needed power boost. The speed boost takes it out of its shitty speed tier and let's it outspeed paralysed torn with 8 speed evs. Inferno gives it a better move to use vs ground types as it likely won't be able to slot grass stab. Slack is added for the same reason everyone gave it slack, this shit dies way too easily and slack goes a long way to prevent that.

Potential set:
Pyroak @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Zap Cannon
- Fire Blast/Inferno
- Earth Power
- Slack Off

Zap Cannon is an immensely spammable move, crippling most of the tier and being a great click into most of the things that previously switched into Roak for free; Torn, pex, book and others. Fire Blast is better into Zapdos and has more synergy with Zap Cannon by not burning things you want to para, but inferno is nearly as spammable as Cannon and is better vs the likes of Lando. EP is just good coverage for tran, lotl etc.

I'll go more in depth and post more calcs when I have time

252+ SpA Pyroak Zap Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 194-230 (63.8 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Pyroak Zap Cannon vs. 252 HP / 204+ SpD Toxapex: 154-182 (50.6 - 59.8%) -- 81.6% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252+ SpA Pyroak Zap Cannon vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 288-340 (96 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Pyroak Zap Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 288-340 (79.5 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Pyroak Zap Cannon vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-Therian: 192-228 (53.1 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Pyroak Zap Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venomicon: 204-240 (54.5 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Pyroak Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 198-234 (51.6 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Pyroak Inferno vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 180-213 (46.9 - 55.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

252+ SpA Pyroak Inferno vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Landorus-Therian: 136-162 (35.6 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and burn damage

252+ SpA Pyroak Zap Cannon vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Heatran: 101-119 (26.1 - 30.8%) -- 4.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Pyroak Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Heatran: 304-360 (78.7 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Pyroak Earth Power vs. 36 HP / 252 SpD Astrolotl: 206-244 (56.2 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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I don't really see the point of adding both of the abilities at once. Each one is already capable of establishing a niche for Pyroak, so it's not like stacking the two is particularly helpful. If you believe in Chlorophyll, it might be better to just center this buff around Chlorophyll and consider what might be needed for that route, considering no one else has submitted a Chlorophyll buff. If you really want to stick with both abilities, I would suggest removing at least one of Leaf Storm or Overheat for the reasons discussed in previous Contrary posts. Pyroak having access to 16PP of 130 BP boosting is absurdly strong, and letting it have both of those probably needs either nerfs elsewhere or some kind of further explanation.


Minor nitpick, but Growth is weak enough outside of sun that its snowballing potential doesn't seem worth worrying about, and in sun it is not likely to offer enough to make an appearance anyways.

It's sort of a meta reason, but I know all this is gonna be discussed ad nauseum then finally sent to voting. Knowing that, I haven't seen anyone proposing 2 ability changes at once, so I picked my favorites. As someone who primarily plays draft leagues, that change would shoot pyroak straight from tier 4 to tier 1 because of the versatility in team comps you can draft with it. I absolutely don't expect that to be something that passes, but it was a fun theory mon. TLDR I'm still on team chlorophyll but contrary is a cool second place idea

Side note: 2 caps have drought already. Having a third is too much saturation and pretty uninspiring
 
WIP
+Suction Cups
-White Smoke
+Stone Edge
+Rapid Spin
+25 Spd
-10 HP


So this is a little left field, it ups Speed to a more Reasonable 85 Base, and between Dragon Dance or Growth and an immunity to be Phazed it has good set up options. Rapid Spin, Growth, Synthesis and Overheat/Leaf Storm isnt broken even on Sun Team support.

WIP 2
+Skill Link
-White Smoke
+25 Att
-25 SpA
+15 SpD
+Rock Blast
+Scale Shot (optional)


Dragon Dance STAB Bullet Seed with 95 Att/75 Base Speed backed up by Heat Crash. Its a unique gap in the market, no native access to Skill Link Bullet Seed for any pokemon yet, Rock Head and Scale Shot give coverage. On Sun Teams, Growth gives back some oomph to SpA in exchange for Speed.
 
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