Gen 4 CurseLax in DPP OU

[Snorlax-the-Pokemon]

Hi, I'm a guy whose favourite Pokemon is Snorlax and favourite generation is DPP. I've been playing Pokemon Showdown for a while now and I've always wanted to make a Team with CurseLax in it. After playing with a bunch of teams and realizing Snorlax pretty much sucks in this gen (which broke my heart) I gave up on making CurseLax somewhat viable and I stopped playing PS (not only bc I couldn't make a good CurseLax team). A few years later I started playing again and started to climb the ladder, even though I wouldn't consider myself a top player, with a CurseLax Team that worked surprisingly well (I got to like 1580 points). I dropped quite a lot bc I experimented with different CurseLax builds and teams without Snorlax (which ofc worked much better). I understand that Tyranitar is 103% better than Snorlax and there is no reason to use Snorlax over TTar besides self-destruct but can you blame someone that just wants to build a good team with his favourite pokemon? Let me present you my "final" team bc I think I have to let go of Snorlax :(

The idea of this team is to beat the physical threats and abuse tspikes for Snorlax to beat opposing setup pokemon.

Heatran (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Overheat

I love specs heatran in the lead slot. It's killing something or it does heavy damage to its checks. Aside from that it kills all these steel types that make Snorlaxs life harder. Overheat is the main move, Flamethrower is there in case I can afford to miss to pick up a KO, Earth Power for opposing Heatran that try to switch into a fire move and rocks in case I played like shit and nidoqueen died. I rarely click rocks and I could replace rocks with HP something but Overheat is the only move I'm clicking most of the time so it doesn't matter that much.

Starmie @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Trick
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin

I need something fast to revenge kill so I decided that my spinner would be my scarfer. It often KOs Flygons bc they are not expecting a Choice Scarf. It has Trick to cripple certain stallish Pokemon like Blissey, Clefable and sometimes defensive Rotom-A. Ice Beam is to revenge kill dragons after a setup or, as mentioned, if they are choice locked and expecting to KO my weakened Starmie. It just catches so many things off guard.

Nidoqueen (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam

Nidoqueen is the main hazard setter and also a very good check to Lucario if it is healthy enough. EQ can hit everything weak to it hard and Ice Beam is for dragons and Gliscor that tries to break it. It is very good for absorbing fighting type attacks directed at Snorlax and Heatran if rocks are up bc Zapdos sometimes has trouble doing that with rocks up. It's really unfortunate that its only way of healing is trough its item bc it can get worn down pretty quickly with hazards up, especially with spikes.

Breloom (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Focus Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Substitute

Breloom is so good, like so so good (speaking of the entire metagame). It forces a lot of switches which is perfect for my tspikes and it almost always cripples something your opponent doesn't want to have crippled. It is a counter to TTar which is a huge threat to this team and which good prediction if gets huge damage of your opponents Pokemon. I usually use the Mach Punch, Superpower set but I decided to got with this build in this Team. I have to say that I sometimes miss Mach Punch but on the other hand a good predict with Focus Punch can be extremely rewarding.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
- Heat Wave
- Toxic

In my Opinion this is Snorlax' Partner. It takes the physical attacks directed at Snorlax which are not rock and also checks physical threats like Gyarados, Scizor and Lucario. It can Toxic Pokemon that are immune to tspikes or Toxic something if tspikes aren't up yet. It might be smarter to put HP Ice on that slot so that dragons can't setup on me and Gliscor is threatened by it.

Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 204 HP / 72 Atk / 16 Def / 216 SpD
Careful Nature
- Body Slam
- Curse
- Rest
- Crunch

Last but not least my favourite Pokemon. It takes all special attacks and spreads paralysis early game to sweep late game once all physical threats are removed. This of course is the best case scenario but these days, physical spam is very common so a lot of games are won not because of Snorlax. If I have to be really honest, almost all games are not won because Snorlax sets up and sweeps. It however does put a smile on my face every time my plan works and I get to sweep with Snorlax. TTar in this spot would be absolutely amazing because it forms a offensive core with Breloom but hey.


With this Team I got pretty high on the ladder but some of these matches are extremely matchup dependent. Gengar is a monster against this team if Snorlax isn't healthy enough (with Lax' EV spread if always it never is 2HKO after rocks). I always have to keep Zapdos healthy for a potential late game Lucario. This team is very prediction heavy, you are not allowed to make too many mistakes or else you lose hard.

With this RMT I have to say goodbye to my big boy. I love Snorlax and I hope that it has a better time in the new generation, I mean I saw him get used in SS OU so I assume he is better there and if not please don't tell me or else I will cry.

Update

Got pretty high on the ladder using another CurseLax team after dropping significantly while testing some teams (I'm SnorlaxTheTank obviously).

Heatran (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Overheat

Latias @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Trick
- Surf
- Thunderbolt

Breloom (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Mach Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Superpower

Nidoqueen (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam

Slowbro (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Psychic
- Slack Off
- Thunder Wave

Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 204 HP / 88 Def / 216 SpD
Careful Nature
- Body Slam
- Curse
- Rest
- Crunch

Roles are pretty much the same. Slowbro is for physical threats (Gyara, Nite, Machamp), Latias is a nice ground immunity and surprise Flygon while being a nice Breloom check.

 

[voyage]

Hi,
great team with Lax. He is a good mon although maybe he doesn't see much. I like that you have a clear idea about the strategy and in which direction you want to go.

By the way, just to clarify one thing. Is it a bug or do you really have a double SR in Heatran / Nido? If it is not a failure, keep in mind that Tran is specs and Nido spends a slot to carry the same.

I imagine your lead is Tran himself. Hm, you can try SR on it but you lose specs on left. Seeing that it is a team with TSpikes a set with Lava Plume can come in handy. You can even put Protect for Choice users or just to take advantage of the possible burn or affected by Tspikes. Hm, it's your only dragon resistance but I think you can handle it.

Well, the Nidoqueen is perfect like that. Only I would leave it like that instead of wearing SR -> Tspikes, Eq, Ibeam, Fblast or Protect.

I think that in these teams the Subroost with toxic version of Zapdos can fit well, also taking advantage of its Pressure ability which is a good way to press and wear down the rival. It can become annoying.

Hm, finally the team icon. Here is something more delicate and you are free to try or not but perhaps a CB set will be used more than in addition to catching things with Pursuit like Starmie / Gar you hit with more power + status rocks.

In general it seems to me a good team and in principle well covered with a base and

 

[Snorlax-the-Pokemon]

Hi,
great team with Lax. He is a good mon although maybe he doesn't see much. I like that you have a clear idea about the strategy and in which direction you want to go.

By the way, just to clarify one thing. Is it a bug or do you really have a double SR in Heatran / Nido? If it is not a failure, keep in mind that Tran is specs and Nido spends a slot to carry the same.

I imagine your lead is Tran himself. Hm, you can try SR on it but you lose specs on left. Seeing that it is a team with TSpikes a set with Lava Plume can come in handy. You can even put Protect for Choice users or just to take advantage of the possible burn or affected by Tspikes. Hm, it's your only dragon resistance but I think you can handle it.

Well, the Nidoqueen is perfect like that. Only I would leave it like that instead of wearing SR -> Tspikes, Eq, Ibeam, Fblast or Protect.

I think that in these teams the Subroost with toxic version of Zapdos can fit well, also taking advantage of its Pressure ability which is a good way to press and wear down the rival. It can become annoying.

Hm, finally the team icon. Here is something more delicate and you are free to try or not but perhaps a CB set will be used more than in addition to catching things with Pursuit like Starmie / Gar you hit with more power + status rocks.

In general it seems to me a good team and in principle well covered with a base and

I appreciate your feedback and you're not mistaken, I have double SR. It might be a good idea to put something else in that SR slot on nido and replace the specs tran with something that has more freedom. CB Snorlax might come in handy in certain situations but my goal was to build a team around CurseLax. The offensive Lax builds are more consistent but I wanted to build something that lets you relive Snorlax' glory days (CurseLax in GSC OU). Anyway I'm going to try your recommended changes and see how these work :D

 

[oiponabys]

Hey,
I like the team and I'll try it on the ladder. I've wasted quite some time playing curselax and I'm happy to see a team making it somewhat work.
I'll have only one suggestion, maybe drop breloom's speed to 222 to outspeed neutral natured Ttar as most base 100s go 244 for jolly tar (just like your zapdos does). This way you can get some additionnal bulk to take stone edges etc. Spread 76/248+/184 gives you a poison heal number and the speed needed.

As for questions,
Can elaborate on the snorlax EVs (the 72 attack/16 defense part) ?
Dug stall (Tar/clef/skarm/dug/fillers) has been a big concern for me, and I assume you matchup poorly against these. Again I haven't played this team yet. Have you been able to win against these ?


Thanks for sharing the team !

Edit: typo

 

[Snorlax-the-Pokemon]

Hey,
I like the team and I'll try it on the ladder. I've wasted quite some time playing curselax and I'm happy to see a team making it somewhat work.
I'll have only one suggestion, maybe drop breloom's speed to 222 to outspeed neutral natured Ttar as most base 100s go 244 for jolly tar (just like your zapdos does). This way you can get some additionnal bulk to take stone edges etc. Spread 76/248+/184 gives you a poison heal number and the speed needed.

As for questions,
Can elaborate on the snorlax EVs (the 72 attack/16 defense part) ?
Dug stall (Tar/clef/skarm/dug/fillers) has been a big concern for me, and I assume you matchup poorly against these. Again I haven't played this team yet. Have you been able to win against these ?


Thanks for sharing the team !

Edit: typo

To be honest I just copy and pasted the sup punch breloom set from smogon and now that you mention it I might change Looms speed tier. As for your Qs:

The attack and defense EVs on Lax are from ages ago. I think I just wanted to have a petty number after two curse boosts for the defense (340 def and 341 spdef). The att EVs are to maximize Lax' damage output so that Snorlax is somewhat of a threat. Might as well put everything left in attack. You could also put everything into defense but in my opinion you don't want to play too defensively as Snorlax can be quite the setup fodder for something like Lum DD TTar and ChestoRest Kingdra if you decide to stay in fish for the para because after one DD they are forced to attack if you attack them on the switch.

I haven't seen much stall on the ladder (thank god) but I played against this kind of team and I can say this match up sucks. You have to be extremly careful what to kill with Heatran and you need to outsmart your opponent a lot. One wrong prediction and your Heatran/Breloom is gone and you can't really breakthrough their defense anymore. Every time I played against this kind of team and won I would stop playing PS for the day because it robbed so much of my brain power. Maybe you find something that can beat these kind of teams (and I would appreciate if you inform me) but for me right now, I try to use my brain and hope I crit a lot.

 

[oiponabys]

So I switched breloom EVs and gave attack to snorlax. I was surprised how well the team works, and not having sandstorm helps a lot zapdos. I ran into a couple of what I believe are teams taken from Smogon Classic. Dugtrio's presence may have refrained people from using tyranitar and that helped quite a bit. Also people using a lot of reflect twave latias gives easy entry for snorlax and an immunity to spore from breloom.
People give a lot of respect to lead Heatran, which allows to get early rocks and I think nidoqueen can afford to drop it for something else.
I stopped at mid 1500s, and I will keep going tomorrow.

(I tried to see if nidoqueen learned pursuit to punish dug locked into Aerial ace and it does like 40% lol. Maybe this mu is boned).

 

[Snorlax-the-Pokemon]

So I switched breloom EVs and gave attack to snorlax. I was surprised how well the team works, and not having sandstorm helps a lot zapdos. I ran into a couple of what I believe are teams taken from Smogon Classic. Dugtrio's presence may have refrained people from using tyranitar and that helped quite a bit. Also people using a lot of reflect twave latias gives easy entry for snorlax and an immunity to spore from breloom.
People give a lot of respect to lead Heatran, which allows to get early rocks and I think nidoqueen can afford to drop it for something else.
I stopped at mid 1500s, and I will keep going tomorrow.

(I tried to see if nidoqueen learned pursuit to punish dug locked into Aerial ace and it does like 40% lol. Maybe this mu is boned).

Thank you for using my team, I really appreciate it! One little change I made to this team is changing Looms move set. Stopped using SubPunch in favor of Mach Punch + Superpower and max speed jolly. That way I have priority and can play a bit more aggressive. I even tried out Slowbro instead of Zapdos because Lead Machamp is a huge pain. Slowbro checks all Pokemon that Zapdos should check except Scizor. It is amazing against Gyara, Dragonite and non-Crunch Lucario.

Slowbro (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Slack Off
- Thunder Wave

Scizor is a huge threat to this Team with Slowbro but at least Machamp isn't a threat anymore and these days you don't see many Scizor. Flygon is also problematic with this change so I tried out Scarf Ghost instead of Starmie to still have a Ground immunity. Might try Scarf Latias as the scarfer/ground immunity.

 

[Air2k]

Cool Team, Snorlax is my Gen 1 Favorite. The only Advice I'd would give you even after the Team Update is Fixing Stealth Rock on Heatran its not really needed / unnecessary Choice on the Heatran so I Recommend like Hidden Power Grass or Dragon Pulse as Good Options. Hidden Power Grass can deal with Waters in the Tier, especially Swampert, and Dragon Pulse as an Anti-Move for Dragons like Kingdra and Dragonite, One of the Common Switchins to Heatran. I think this Recommendation will benefit you.

Good Luck wrecking the DPP Ladder with CurseLax :-)