Crobat [4F]

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

I think Ampharos also deserves a mention in the Counters section. Sure it's NU, but many OU Pokemon have UU Pokemon listed as counters in their analyses, and I can attest to the effectiveness of Ampharos through extensive testing. Thunderbolt is a much more reliable way of killing Crobat than Stone Edge on Rock types, because even if Crobat is EV'd to survive a hit, it won't miss and it carries more PP than Roost so Crobat cannot stall it out. Ampharos easily switches in on Brave Bird with its decent Defense, and can even survive a +2 LO Sludge Bomb at full health with only max HP investment. It also has a key advantage over other counters in that Crobat cannot safely scout for it with U-turn. It is certainly something that any Crobat user has to be aware of.

 

[twash]

I agree with the idea that Rain Dance should still be on the set. Crobat can be useful later on in the game thanks to it not being as suicidal. U-turn scouts switches and gets in light hits whereas Electrode would often find itself Exploding. While Electrode often uses Damp Rock as its item, it often utilizes Focus Sash too. Crobat has the advantage of more natural bulk and can pretty much use Damp Rock most of the time. I'm surprised there is no mention of Heat Rock in the analysis, that should be added.

I quite like the idea of adding Ampharos to counters.

Also, link to the analysis in the OP, please.

 

[RaikouLover]

Whirlwind Crobat is no joke. I mean yeah it's not taking advantage of its Speed but that's like saying Tank Metagross sucks because it "should be attacking". Whirlwind is a really nice way for Crobat to do some damage to Pokémon like Registeel with Crobat can't really harm when you have Spikes support.

Chris.. what the fuck? First you have to Taunt Registeel to make sure it doesn't T-Wave you. Meaning it can predict and Ice Punch you. Now you have to Roost and hope it doesn't Earthquake... all this just to blow it away because you can't attack it? I'd rather U-turn to something else... I don't see the need to put Whirlwind on the 2nd fastest pokemon in the tier. Now, if you add some set like Sleep Talk + Whirlwind as the only two moves that would make sense, but Crobat really has no place in its moveset to be wasting time with a negative priority move. That's why we don't use Roar on Jolteon or Aerodactyl, Avalanche on Weavile, or Whirlwind on Swellow, for example.

Also, Crobat is a really really shitty counter for Yanmega so I don't know why there is a mention of it.

 

[Heysup]

To be honest, I have to agree with Chris.

SubRoost Whirlwind is a very effective set. Against foes such as Steelix, Regirock, Registeel, etc. Whirlwinding does alot of residual damage with the amount of switches that Crobat can easily force. Even with Negative priority, if you are behind a sub it doesnt matter much, you cant touch these Pokemon anyway. Its a pretty good shuffler imo.

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

To be honest, I have to agree with Chris.

SubRoost Whirlwind is a very effective set. Against foes such as Steelix, Regirock, Registeel, etc. Whirlwinding does alot of residual damage with the amount of switches that Crobat can easily force. Even with Negative priority, if you are behind a sub it doesnt matter much, you cant touch these Pokemon anyway. Its a pretty good shuffler imo.

Yeah I told LonelyNess about that set yesterday and he tested it out and agreed that "StallBat" should definitely be in the analysis so he'll be writing that up pretty soon.

 

[cim]

That's why we don't use Roar on Jolteon or Aerodactyl, Avalanche on Weavile, or Whirlwind on Swellow, for example.

No, we don't put phazing moves on those pokemon because they can take roughly as many hits as the Red Bull can I'm currently kicking around my room.

I've almost never seen an Ice Punch Registeel and even when I have I can just switch, but being stuck in a matchup where the opponent can't do anything back is not nice.

 

[Steinhauser]

Old Analysis: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/crobat

[SET]
name: Lead
move 1: Taunt
move 2: Roost
move 3: Brave Bird / Air Slash
move 4: U-turn / Sunny Day / Hypnosis
item: Leftovers
nature: Jolly / Timid
evs: 168 HP / 108 SpD / 232 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p> There are three things that make Crobat an outstanding lead in the Underused tier. The first is base 130 Speed, which allows it to outpace any non-Scarfed Pokemon barring Electrode. The second is Taunt, with which Crobat can stop nearly any opposing lead from setting up any number of support options. (or, "...from using any number of support moves.") Lastly, Crobat has Roost, allowing it to eliminate all of its weaknesses except for (no "a") Ground and Psychic. (Ground isn't one of its weaknesses unless Roost is used, which perhaps should be mentioned.)</p>

<p>Brave Bird is Crobat’s main STAB. Even without any Attack investment, the high base power of Brave Bird easily makes up for it. Teams lacking any type of Flying resist will be hard-pressed to switch into this move, especially when the prospect of Taunt looms, preventing any type of recovery.</p>

<p>The last slot in the set really comes down to team preference. U-turn is the default for any team wanting general support. Crobat’s Speed and ability to force switches because of Taunt will afford many advantageous scenarios. Crobat happens to be the fastest user of Sunny Day in the UU tier, so if your team happens to be one that could take advantage of sunny weather, Crobat is the perfect Pokemon for you. Rain Dance is also an option; however, Electrode is generally a better candidate for a lead who sets up Rain Dance. Hypnosis is also good for general utility, but its low accuracy makes it unreliable at best. If you are using Hypnosis, you will have to resort to Air Slash for your Flying STAB and change the nature to Timid because Brave Bird and Hypnosis is an illegal combination. Substitute can also be used in the last slot, as it eases prediction and can afford Crobat a bit of added protection in certain situations.</p>

<p>The EVs are very specific on this particular set. 232 Speed allows Crobat 389 Speed, outspeeding all non-Scarfed Pokemon except for Electrode, and all Scarfed Pokemon of neutral base 80 Speed or lower. 168 HP and 108 SpD allows Crobat to avoid being 2HKOed by an unboosted Psychic from Uxie and Slowbro, two Pokemon who frequently use Psychic to deter Crobat from using Taunt and stopping their setups. (Inaccurate: 0 SpA Slowbro is doing 58.36% - 69.69% with Psychic.) The HP EVs also afford Crobat incredible physical bulk (removed "as well"), avoiding the OHKO from common leads who use Stone Edge such as Regirock, Nidoking, and defensively-based Kabutops. This means you can safely Taunt (no comma) and then Roost off damage.</p>

<p>There are few teams that can’t take advantage of Crobat’s contributions. Teams that have large weaknesses to Fighting, Grass, and Bug attacks will love having Crobat to support them, as most of the Pokemon who carry these attacks lack the ability to boost their Speed. This makes them prime targets for Brave Bird, which will easily OHKO. Because of this, sweeping Water-types make great partners with Crobat. Azumarill, Milotic, and Slowbro will all love having Crobat around to take out Grass-types standing in the way of their sweeps, and Crobat will love having a Pokemon to take Ice attacks directed at it. It’s a match made in heaven.</p>

[SET]
name: PlotBat
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Air Slash / Sludge Bomb
move 3: Heat Wave
move 4: Roost / Hidden Power Grass
item: Life Orb / Leftovers / Lum Berry
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p> Crobat may have a mediocre Special Attack stat, topping out at 239 (removed "when at its peak"). But with Nasty Plot, it can double that stat instantly, substantially increasing its ability to sweep, and with that amazing base 130 Speed, Electrode and Choice Scarf users of base 85 Speed or higher are the only things standing in its way.</p>

<p> Air Slash and Heat Wave make up its main attack options. Air Slash is there for STAB and also has the added benefit of a 30% flinch rate, occasionally granting Crobat some free damage. Sludge Bomb can be used if you're not concerned about hitting Fighting-types, although without the threat of STAB Flying attacks, they may feel safe to stay in and harass you with Stone Edge. Heat Wave compgreennts Flying STAB nicely, leaving only Rock-types and Chansey to stop it. The last slot in the set can alleviate one of these problems. Hidden Power Grass is an option if your team is unable to remove Rock-types. If your team is fine with these threats, Roost is a far better choice as it affords Crobat the chance to recover off Life Orb recoil and residual damage against less threatening Pokemon. Taunt is an option in the last slot as well, as it allows Crobat to stop opponents from using status like Thunder Wave to stop your sweep, but it is generally an inferior option.</p>

<p>Life Orb is the preferred item on this set because Crobat’s offenses are less than stellar without it. Leftovers can be used in lieu of Life Orb if the recoil is off-putting. Lum Berry gives Crobat a one-time status prevention, but beyond that isn’t the best choice.</p>

<p>Crobat will frequently lure in Steel-types such as Steelix and Registeel, which this set beats fairly easily. This can open up a sweep for other Pokemon that fear these threats. As such, Mismagius is a great partner for this Crobat. Other Pokemon that make good partners for Crobat are good Rock-type and Chansey switch-ins. Toxicroak, Medicham, and Rhydon come to mind as being able to take advantage of Nasty Plot Crobat's counters. If you’re just looking to get rid of Crobat’s counters outright, Trapinch can be useful in taking out all Chansey sets, and the majority of Steel and Rock-type Pokemon, with ease.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Bat
move 1: Brave Bird
move 2: U-turn
move 3: Pursuit
move 4: Steel Wing / Cross Poison
item: Choice Band
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is Crobat’s best chance at pulling off a physical sweep. With a Choice Band and 252 Atk EVs, any non-resistant Pokemon is going to take a ridiculously hard hit from Brave Bird. U-turn allows you to scout for your opponent’s Flying resist and switch to an appropriate counter. Because of this, U-turn is generally the best move to use your first time in. Pursuit allows Crobat to be a revenge killer of sorts, hitting Mismagius and other physically weak Pokemon who would generally switch out of the standard Crobat sets for heavy damage. Steel Wing is really there for lack of a better move, but can be useful if your opponent opts to use a Rock-type as his Flying resist instead of a Steel-type. Cross Poison can be useful too if you desire a STAB move that doesn't have (removed "the") recoil like Brave Bird, but it doesn't improve coverage at all. </p>

<p>Crobat will undoubtedly create large holes in an opponent’s team. Considering no UnderUsed Steel- or Rock-type has any form of recovery barring Leftovers and Rest, any damage that Crobat does is likely to be permanent. Thus, Crobat can be used to wear down an opponent enough for a different Pokemon to actually perform the sweep. Sceptile and Swellow come to mind as excellent candidates to make the end-game sweep[/b][/color],[/b][/color] because really, only Steel-types get in their way, and when the opponent lacks one, it’s all but done for. Blaziken also gets a mention for being 2x resistant to Gyro Ball, which is used by Crobat's most common switch-in, Steelix. Once Blaziken gets in on a relatively weak attack, it is free to wallbreak (unsure of grammatical convention for "wallbreak" but that's how I would spell it, considering "wallbreaker") at will.</p>

[Team Options]

<p> It’s hard to think of a team that wouldn’t be better off with a Crobat.
Offensive teams will appreciate its numerous resistances, and any team bothered by Shaymin, Yanmega, Toxicroak, and other such Pokemon will be glad to incorporate Crobat into the fold. Teams that have little trouble with Steel- or Rock-types are also great teams for Crobat, as those Pokémon are its greatest enemies.</p>

<p>When using the special set, be sure to include Pokemon that sweep in a similar fashion to the standard Crobat, as Nasty Plot Crobat is a particularly good lure and counter to the majority of its standard counters. Swellow, Honchkrow, and Sceptile all enjoy having Steel-types out of the way so they can complete a sweep. If opening up the sweep for Crobat is desired, physical moves on normally special-based Pokemon can eradicate Chansey. Swords Dance Shaymin and Ludicolo will lure in Chansey more often than not, and can threaten with high-powered Seed Bombs. Trapinch is also a near-guaranteed way of getting rid of the big pink blob, as well as any Steel-types in your path.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>The remainder of Crobat’s movepool is rather slim pickings. Poison Fang, Bite, and X-Scissor are usable physical moves, although none really provide much more coverage than the aforementioned moves. You could slap a Choice Specs on Crobat and use Sludge Bomb and Giga Drain over Roost and Nasty Plot on the Special set, but considering that Crobat fails to break 360 Special Attack, and that its coverage isn’t exactly stellar, that job is best left to other Pokemon.</p>

<p>Support-wise, Confuse Ray can be useful for forcing switches, or just making life a pain in general for your opponent. Haze and Whirlwind can be used if your team lacks a way to get rid of offensive boosts, but Crobat’s defenses are generally too weak to take boosted attacks repeatedly, even with access to Roost. Screech is a more indirect approach to phazing, and forces the opponent to either leave the field of battle (no comma) or take a hefty hit from Brave Bird (removed "in") the following turn. Lastly, Rain Dance can be used on the lead, and with Crobat‘s high Speed, is near-guaranteed to go off.</p>

[EVs]

</p>A minimum of 232 Speed with a boosting nature is necessary on any Crobat set. This allows you to outpace anything in the UnderUsed tier that is not Scarfed (barring Electrode), and all Scarfed, neutral-natured Pokemon of base 80 Speed or lower. On the lead, making sure you can safely Taunt is paramount to its success, so a more defensive approach is taken in lieu of offensive EVs. 168 HP and 108 SpD gives Crobat the ability to withstand two of any unboosted Psychic attack, meaning it can freely Taunt the likes of Uxie and Slowbro without fear of retribution.</p> (Inaccurate: 0 SpA Slowbro is doing 58.36% - 69.69% with Psychic.)

<p>Physical offensive sets will generally want to eschew any defensive EVs and just go with the standard 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe spread, as the chance to win a Speed tie against opposing Crobat is generally better than any marginal amount of bulk you'd receive from the extra HP. Special-based sets will definitely want to max out Special Attack, considering that at a paltry base 70, Crobat’s Special Attack will need as much help as it can get.</p>

[Opinion]

<p>It’s not hard to see why Crobat is hailed as the best lead in UU. Its access to a fast Taunt, Roost, and its considerable bulk make it the perfect candidate for stopping your opponent from using undesirable support moves. Not only can it stop your opponent from setting up, but it can often (removed "get a") sweep by itself with help from its Speed and high base power STAB option Brave Bird. All of these things together make a very neat and tidy package that can both support the team, and sometimes make a break-away sweep all on its own.</p>

[Counters]

<p>As a general rule of thumb, Steel-types will do an adequate job of walling Crobat. Steelix and Registeel fit the bill perfectly; however, do note that you will need a slight investment in Attack on Registeel, lest you fail to 2HKO with Ice Punch while it’s in the air or Earthquake when it’s using Roost. Both Steel-types should be wary of the special-based sets, as neither of these two Pokemon will enjoy having a +2 Life Orb Heat Wave thrown at them.</p>

<p>Rock-types can also take almost anything Crobat can throw at them and threaten it with STAB Stone Edge, although if the attack fails to OHKO, Crobat can stall out Stone Edge’s PP with Roost, barring a critical hit.</p>

<p>Chansey is probably the best answer to the special sets, threatening with Thunder Wave which will effectively eliminate Crobat from the game. If Crobat lacks Hidden Power Grass, Rock-types make an appearance again as the only Pokemon who resist Flying / Fire. (Lanturn does as well.) Strong Psychic-types like Espeon that can take a quick special hit are also adequate counters.</p>

Nitpicks. Punctuation is giant so it's easy to see.

 

[Legacy Raider]

I'm unconvinced about the first set's EVs. In my experience, the BraveBat EVs in the current analysis are fine. I can see the case for having a bit more SpD, but having max Speed is a lot more beneficial in a lot of cases, since Crobat is a much more common lead than Uxie and you don't want to be Brave Birded by opposing Crobat. Max Speed also means that you beat things like Adamant DD Feraligatr and Altaria after a DD, etc, and tie at worst with any other Crobat you see. The Atk investment is also handy in getting OHKOs on 252 HP Hitmontop, 0 HP Houndoom with SR, as well as killing 4 HP Shaymin half the time with SR (I'm sure there are several other important calcs, these are just ones I did off the top of my head). Being able to survive 2 Uxie Psychics isn't all that important when you consider that there is no point in you staying in on it as it will eventually crit or get a SpD fall, and the fact that if you plan on attacking it with Brave Bird, the recoil damage will mean Psychic will 2HKO. I'd just stick with the standard BraveBat EVs.

Personally, I'd be in favour of keeping the first set known as BraveBat, because it can be run very effectively outside of the lead position as well, but by calling it 'Lead' it is a lot easier to mention Hypnosis so I don't know. Mention that if you're running Air Slash you obviously don't need the Atk investment.

Could you be a bit more specific in the counters section? I know people should know what the Rock-types in UU are, but there's no harm in mentioning Rhydon and Regirock specifically. Also, mention Omastar being able to beat Crobat with a combiation of Ice Beam and Surf. Remove Registeel from Crobat's counters, because it is a very poor one:

0 Atk Ice Punch vs 104/0 Crobat: 30.27 - 36.20%
0 Atk Earthquake vs 104/0 Crobat (roosting): 40.36 - 48.07%

If you must mention it, instead of saying that it can run Atk investment to 2HKO Crobat, say that it doesn't mind taking attacks from Crobat but can't really touch it back in return (note that many Registeel run Iron Head as their only attack anyway), and that it is quite vulnerable to being Taunted and left open to the Pokemon Crobat U-turns out to.

Add bulky Electric-types such as Luxray and Ampharos to the counters as well, since they bring Crobat to a stop very quickly. Note that Electrode doesn't have qualms about switching into Brave Bird either and threatening to outspeed and OHKO with Thunderbolt.

Overall it's a good writeup, well done :).

 

[Heysup]

LN there is a huge discussion (and LR even listed) about all of the Counters for Crobat in UU that you may want to include. Just make sure you mention Crobat is hard for them to take down because of U-turn and Roost.

I agree completely with LR for the Brave Bat set. You definitely need to leave / Add it like this (as the most popular set being used atm):

[SET]
name: Lead
move 1: Taunt
move 2: Roost
move 3: Brave Bird
move 4: U-turn / Substitute
item: Leftovers / Black Sludge
nature: Jolly
evs: 104 HP / 152 Atk / 252 Spe

You should absolutely keep this as a set, even if you seperate it from the lead set, you NEED this set on the analysis. Its the best and most popular one bar-none.



However, I beleive Registeel should remain in the counters section. Your Registeel calcs are flawed because NO Registeel should ever run 0 atk. Registeel will eventually get a Freeze or CH anyway, before Crobat does anything. I also use Zap Cannon on my Registeel, just to cripple Crobat who Taunt.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Agreeing that Brave Bat should be a separate set if you want to keep that lead as it is...or at least all out attacking set with just Brave Bird/Taunt/Roost/U-turn and no side options with Leftovers.

Also, speaking of that lead, I would just take Sunny Day out of the moveslots and just devote a paragraph to explaining how the lead happens to be one of the best users of Rain Dance/Sunny Day in the tier, and Damp Rock/Heat Rock etc.

Also, I just wanted to make you aware of this thread: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1943096

One last thing, I just wanted to say that ShuffleBat/StallBat/whatever they want to call it is simply amazing. It's like Sub Roost Zapdos/Moltres but it has enough room on the set to use Whirlwind as well to rack up even MORE residual damage against your opponent. It looks dumb on paper because common sense dictates that fast mons shouldnt be using negative priority, but with Crobat's arguably broken defensive capabilities it is actually quite good.

 

[franky]

252 Speed EV's is required on the lead set to speed tie with the popular Crobat. You could mention that EV spread if you feel you need to handle Uxie much better.

 

[LonelyNess]

I just wanted to update this saying I haven't neglected it, I'm just waiting to see Crobat's tiering status before finishing it up, considering that it's very likely to be BL, so the information is no longer relevant.

 

[Fuzznip]

Just a slight nitpick, remove the spacing before and after the <p>/</p>tags.

<p>Hi.</p>

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Needless to say, this is going to need quite a revamp now that Crobat is BL.