Creative / Underrated Movesets thread - Doubles edition

[Arcticblast]

stolen from OU
Standard and common sets are generally effective. After all, that's why they're common and standard. But sometimes a less-common set can be effective. In fact, brand-new sets can be quite effective as well. This thread is for new and creative movesets that can be quite effective, as well as old movesets that have fallen out of favor but have become quite effective in the Doubles metagame.

Since Doubles is, well, a double battle format, pairs of Pokemon are also acceptable if they work a specific way together without being dead weight with other partners.

What is a new and creative, good moveset?

• It successfully pulls off a role, and is not strictly outclassed by others.
• It takes advantage of metagame trends.
• It has had some success. Post replays / logs to strengthen your case.

What is an underrated, good moveset?

• It is an existing set that for whatever reason isn't common.
• Its use is meant to prey on specific facets of the metagame.
• It might be able to surprise and demolish Pokemon that normally counter the usual sets, but does not become a gimmick in order to do so.

If you post a shitty gimmick, your post will be deleted and infracted, NO EXCEPTIONS.

What are some things that constitute a shitty gimmick?

• Using a Pokemon that has no business being used in higher-level Doubles play.
• Movesets that are inferior and ineffective compared to existing movesets, or use an obscure move for the sake of hitting an even more obscure check or counter.
• Movesets that are utterly impractacle or are horribly outclassed by another Pokemon.
• This is a standard Doubles thread. Don't post some Dialga set.
• Terracott.
• Anything involving Regigigas or Slaking.

A shitty gimmick is not limited to the above, though. To quote Potter Stewart, "I know it when I see it."

Creative sets / partners

!

Underrated sets / partners

!

I'll start us off with an example:

Tyranitar @ Fighting Gem
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 124 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- Protect

This Tyranitar spread is designed to beat two Pokemon that can be problematic to a variety of teams and perform better against a few others. Fighting Gem Superpower allows Tyranitar to OHKO max HP Heatran, who could otherwise burn it with Will-O-Wisp, and 2HKO even the bulkiest Ferrothorn (which Low Kick can fail to do, especially when factoring in Leftovers). The Speed EVs let Tyranitar always outspeed uninvested Heatran.

Let's go, everyone!

 

[Nollan]

I guess I'll post my inspiration (and starting core) for that annoying Liepard team I made awhile ago (given how underrated Liepard is imo).

Liepard @ Dark Gem
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Foul Play
- Fake Out
- Encore
- Substitute

Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 96 SpA / 96 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Psyshock
- Icy Wind
- Swagger
- Sunny Day

The most annoying core you will ever face apart from Mizuhime's Thundy + Machamp core, which is complete evil. The goal of this core is to make the most of Liepard, an underrated threat who can disrupt a lot of teams with Fake Out and Encore. Substitute was an unusual option I decided to try out, and it worked great on the set, since Liepard forced so many switches. Foul Play is pretty typical, and Cresselia came into play to support Foul Play as much as possible.

The Cresselia set is standard apart from Swagger, an uncommon but viable option on it. Its main goal was to boost the attack stat of special attackers through Swagger, so that Foul Play could reliably KO them. I'm assuming Sunny Day would be classified as a standard moveslot on Cresselia (at least it is for me), it was there to help disrupt weather, which was something that my Liepard set couldn't do. Everything else is 100% standard on it, so I'm not going to explain anything else.

Since you asked for replays, I'm gonna post a replay vs blank so he can relive the true horror of that battle:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/joimslab-smogondoubles-1687

You can easily see how much of a pain the core is to face. The battle had some favorable parahax on my part, though. Still, the last few turns demonstrate the good snyergy between the two, as Cress uses Swagger to secure my Liepard's Foul Play KO on his Cresselia.

 

[tofucocoa]

here's something ive been trying out lately

Scrafty @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 144 Atk / 116 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Crunch / Ice Punch
- Drain Punch
- Rest
- Fake Out

basically i'm trying to take scrafty's longevity to the next level. what bothers me about the set though, is that i'm too used to chople and it can be too slow to get rest off sometimes, but oherwise i like the recovery for more intimidate-reliant teams.

 

[iliketrains11]

here is the most hilariously annoying strategy in doubles possible, and i tell you, it is not a gimmick

murkrow
ability: prankster
item: eviolite
- protect
- perish song
- substitute
- roost

252 HP/252+SP.Def/4Def

gothitelle
ability: shadow tag
item: light clay/focus sash
- protect
- light screen
- reflect
- psyshock/psychic
252HP/252+Def/4SP.Def

the point is to use perish song, stall for 3 turns, then switch out, and both of your opponent's pokemon faint. the only real counters to it are prankster taunt and u-turn/volt switch.
here are a few replays of my perishtrap team:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles-48600483
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles-49914024
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles-47228473
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles-46881023
just a few of the replays i could find

 

[Audiosurfer]

Ok I'll hopefully have my own sets to post soon but as of now just thought I'd mention that as the OP states the goal of this thread is to come up with viable and NON-GIMMICKY sets that are either underrated right now or serve a creative purpose. Thus, things like perish trapping definitely shouldn't be posted here (just because you won a few ladder matches with it does not maker it not gimmicky). Thanks :)

 

[Nollan]

To be honest, I don't view Perish Trap as creative or underrated anyways, a lot of people have used it, and from I can recall it's pretty popular among midlevel ladder players. When Arcticblast says "underrated", I assume he means things that are very uncommon and see little to no use (but I've been wrong before).

Anyway, I looked through some of my teams and found 2 pretty unusual sets.

Thundurus (M) @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SDef
Calm Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave
- Rest

A fun set I used on one team. Despite the fact that it seems to be designed for slow, steady paralysis, its actually very fast paced. The goal is to slow things down, heal, switch out if neccessary and come in later to paralyze more opponents, all in a matter of a few turns. It hates Taunt though, but everything has its weak points. While you may ask "why use Rest over Hidden Power Ice", Rest has a lot of advantages. While not fearing status as much is nice, Rest is mostly there to provide a bit more longetivity, which on something like Thundurus can often go a long way.

Ludicolo @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 84 SAtk / 80 SDef
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam
- Sunny Day
- Fake Out

Probably one of the most annoying Pokemon for a rain team to face. Indeed, this set's main goal is weather control, as Ludicolo can be a pain for both rain and sand teams to handle. The given spread lives a Dragon Gem Draco Meteor off of Modest Hydreigon and a Fighting Gem Close Combat off of Hitmontop, plus anything weaker than that, which is a lot of attacks (Bug Buzz from Volcarona, Draco from Timid Latios, HP Flying from Flying Gem Thundurus, etc). The remaining EVs are put into SpA for max damage. While it does have some offensive presence, this set is mainly for support. It is best used on teams in high need of a weather counter, as Ludicolo is one of the best.

 

[Arcticblast]

Effective or not, Perish Trap is definitely a gimmick. It's like Trick Room in OU - effective, but a gimmick.

I'll add Nollan and lucariojr's sets to the OP - thanks guys! Keep 'em coming.
(anyone else? Please? ...hello?)

 

[noobcubed]

Okay, racked my brains and remembered this Whimsicott set from ages ago:

Whimsicott @ Lagging Tail
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp Def (generic spread to be molded to the team)
- Tailwind
- U-turn
- Switcheroo
- Taunt / Encore (filler basically)

The idea is to reliably set up Tailwind with Prankster, and then use a slow U-turn to switch out safely to a Pokemon with more offensive presence that can exploit the limited turns available to use it. Switcheroo is also fantastic as a clutch way to stop something like Kingdra or Excadrill sweeping the enitre team.

EDIT: woo, 100th post. :)

 

[Punchshroom]

Politoed @ Mystic Water
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind / Ice Beam
- Hypnosis / Hidden Power Grass
- Protect

Tornadus @ Lum Berry
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Role Play
- Protect

Special attacking Tornadus? A fast Politoed? The former is a rare relic in Doubles play compared to Defiant Tornadus while the latter can prove to be outright disadvantageous in terms of winning the weather war. There are reasons for this though. When players see their Tyranitar get Sand up, they stay in knowing their Chople Berries and bolstered Special Defense will allow them to survive anything coming its way (This also applies to Ninetales). Few Tyranitars ever expect the combination of Prankster Role Play + Rain boosted Mystic Water STAB Hydro Pump cleaning their prehistoric asses off the field turn 1, and unlike just using Prankster Rain Dance for the same effect, I get to keep the Rain for the rest of the match without losing any offensive momentum. The speed EVs on Politoed are enough to outrun base 111s after an Icy Wind drop, and the reason I went for special Nadus is because this Tornadus no longer has the benefit of Defiant, but since Rain is up why not use its other STAB option instead?

Tornadus destroys any Breloom or other Grasses looking to KO Politoed, while Rain boosted Hydro Pumps keep Fighting-neutral Steels at bay. I like to play a bit more defensively with my Toed despite running a more offensive spread so I can disrupt my opponent's strategy like Trick Room, Dual Screens or Tailwind, but more offensive options to hit Dragons and Waters are still viable. Obviously this combo has issues with Electric-types (though Tornadus can copy Volt Absorb/Lightningrod/Motor Drive lol to set them back a bit), but your teammates should be able to dispatch of them easily. Role Play has fun uses as well such as copying Intimidate or Heatran's Flash Fire, turning the tables on them. This combo can easily win you the weather war very early on if your opponent gets cocky with their weather setter, so have fun leaving your opponents wide-mouthed at whatever had just transpired.

 

[youngjake93]

We talked about this one on the IRC.

Latios @ Life Orb/Dragon Gem
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Sunny Day/Rain Dance
- Protect

I know it isn't much of a change to the standard set, but I think it plays differently enough to note.
Latios has the stats and typing Ninetales wishes it had. It can switch into rain boosted attacks and change the weather to avoid the 2hko. Latios also resists common electric moves thrown around in rain teams. The reason Sunny Day is useful on even teams that don't rely a lot on its support is that after a Draco Meteor you are left sitting at -2. Instead of firing off a weaker attack, you can get rid of sand/hail for you sash users, screw over rain hard, or give some support to any fire attacks you happen have.
I put preference on Life Orb so that you can still score KOs on SE attacks at -2 and this Latios tends to need more staying power against weather teams.

Likewise, the fire and grass resists allow it to Rain Dance against Sun easily, but slowing Kingdra and nerfing powerful water moves is generally more useful if you don't need Rain support.


PS I think SubTran should become the main onsite set. It's starting to get very popular and it is obvious incredibly threatening. It has made me completely rethink Heatran's viability since its uprise.

 

[noobcubed]

Young Jake, might Latias, with her superior bulk, not be better suited to such a role?
And yes, SubTran rocks.

 

[youngjake93]

Here's a few calcs assuming you want to run offensive Latias(which wouldn't abuse its bulk very well, but it is comparable to this set).

-2 252 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kingdra: 212-252 (72.85 - 86.59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-2 252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kingdra: 276-328 (94.84 - 112.71%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO
-2 252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kingdra: 236-282 (81.09 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-2 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kingdra: 307-367 (105.49 - 126.11%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Even if you opt for the LO and max investment, you don't guarantee a OHKO on Kingdra with Latias after nuking something else. One of the responsibilities of the set is to stop Kingdra cold.

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Ludicolo: 298-351 (86.12 - 101.44%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Ludicolo: 265-312 (76.58 - 90.17%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Dragon Gem Latias Draco Meteor vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Ludicolo: 306-360 (88.43 - 104.04%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
To combat Ludicolo with Latias you need a Dragon gem intact to have a chance to OHKO and max investment.

-2 252 SpA Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Venusaur: 152-182 (50.33 - 60.26%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-2 252 SpA Latias Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Venusaur: 134-162 (44.37 - 53.64%) -- 33.59% chance to 2HKO
-2 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Venusaur: 198-237 (65.56 - 78.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If you go with the Dragon Gem set-up Venusaur actually has a big chance to survive a 2hko!


The point is to hit things hard AND support without having to switch around too often. As you can see, with LO Latios can hit hard enough after using Draco Meteor while Latias falls a little short and would prefer to run bulk and no LO anyway. More importantly than the calcs shown above is just power in general scenarios, Latias just is too weak for a fast attacker. Sure Latias would be better if your team NEEDS weather support, but the point of Latios is to keep lots of offensive pressure while offering support on Protect turns and downtime.



Editing to not spam replies:
Sure, Latios would like to spam attacks as often as possible. However, steel type+Cresselia leaves you with nothing to do. The same can be said on turns where a Protect is obvious.
Also, using Sunny Day is more effective than attacking against rain. Politoed won't be able to spam, Kingdra falls to its knees, Ludicolo is stuck with low BP grass attacks and slow as a rock. No matter how high the special attack, Sunny Day is more important against rain.

So, there are three scenarios where you would rather use Sunny Day even if you don't really need to. Also, LO was the other switch to the set. This turns Latios into less of a hit and run attacker, while still having initial nuking power(LO Draco at -2 is still stronger than no item Dragon Pulse at +0). So you are not obligated to switch out, you can stay in and choose attack or Sunny Day.

 

[noobcubed]

Well, der, Latios has the higher SpA stat, and, wouldn't you know it, it does more damage!
I do appreciate the usefulness of having support options on Latios so that it isn't sitting around toothlessly at -2, but really I've always viewed Latios as a hit-and-run mon. Blast something, preferably OHKO it, with Draco Meteor and then get the hell out of there, lest you run the risk of giving your opponent free turns to do as he pleases. I think the problem is that you are having your cake and eating it, saying a) manual weather Latios is great because it provides support and offensive presence, and b) it's also great because it still provides support even when it loses its offensive presence after firing off a Draco Meteor. Well, in scenario a) it's normally just going to be attacking anyway, so the weather is rarely useful, and in scenario b) Latias would be better because of her superior bulk.
But I've never tried this myself, I could be very wrong!

 

[Stratos]

People have seen me raving about this set on irc/smogcast, so I'll post it here

Rhyperior @ Ground Gem
Jolly
Lightningrod
8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spe
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Stone Edge
-Protect

This is a great Pokemon for any dedicated Tailwind team; it can redirect Thunder Waves with its Lightningrod and Ground Gem EQ ohkoes follow me Jirachi. Aside from that, Rhyperior has a great offensive typing, two good spread moves, and great physical bulk. To cap it all off, he's just fast enough—248 EVs at +2 speed creeps Pokemon which speed creep Pokemon which are EVd to beat the genies (alternatively run 252 idrc)

Is it niche? Yeah, you only use it on /dedicated/ tailwind. But on those teams, it's perfect.

 

[noobcubed]

I think you would need sand too since even with Tailwind you are outrun and shat on by Swift Swimmers & Cholorphyll users, and if you're running sand then Excadrill is probably doing a similar job anyway. Also I think Megahorn > Stone Edge, maybe that's just me.

Nonetheless, it's a scary thing. I guess it has better bulk than Excadrill and can take fire type attacks.

 

[Nollan]

I just hate how I can't use Electric-type attacks when it is on the field. ;-;

For that reason, I might just run Solid Rock for bulk. Its definitely an option, anyways. It also gets some competition from Mold Breaker Excadrill, who I enjoy running on the 2% of my teams that are Tailwind (so I guess it might require Lightningrod and no Solid Rock to stand out :().

Not in as much agreement on Megahorn, because:
252 Atk Rhyperior Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 238-280 (53.6 - 63.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Can't 2HKO any variant of Sitrus Berry Cresselia (factoring in 25% healing from Sitrus Berry). Not to mention dedicated Tailwind teams usually have Heracross on them, who can OHKO all but the bulkiest (we're talking 252/252+ here) Cresselia with the same attack and a Bug Gem.

 

[Laga]

Here is an underrated and effective set.

Thundurus-T @ Choice Specs
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Thunder / Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Flying / Ice
- Focus Blast / Grass Knot

This should be in a hypothetic "Don't use that, use this" thread, considering how this set is billions of times of more use than some weird Discharge set on Discharge spam teams.

This is how you use Thundurus-T, it has a good niche on Tailwind teams, since it is a non Ground-type and immune to T-Wave (I wish Zapdos had Lightningrod). Though it may not redirect it like Pwne's Rhyperior does, it hits much harder. The power is beautiful.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Thundurus-T Thunder vs. 240 HP / 216+ SpD Cresselia: 214-253 (48.52 - 57.36%) -- 48.44% chance to 2HKO

is powahful and makes damage :)

 

[kingofmars]

Going to throw out a set thats super popular in vgc but sees minimal use in smogdubs
Heatran @ Fire Gem
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Eruption
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Protect

This thing is lethal with the right team support, simply set up trick room and fire off insanely powerful eruptions. Ideal partners include Cresselia with sunny day, boosting heatran even more before it fires off the attack (use 14 speed ivs on heatran for this). Other good partners include Metagross, Rotom-W, and Landorus-T

 

[Nollan]

Going to throw out a set thats super popular in vgc but sees minimal use in smogdubs
Heatran @ Fire Gem
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Eruption
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Protect

This thing is lethal with the right team support, simply set up trick room and fire off insanely powerful eruptions. Ideal partners include Cresselia with sunny day, boosting heatran even more before it fires off the attack (use 14 speed ivs on heatran for this). Other good partners include Metagross, Rotom-W, and Landorus-T

I've actually seen this set a fair bit in Smogon Doubles, but compared to VGC its certainly not as popular. My guess as to why is probably the fact that right now everyone is using Hitmontop in Smogon Doubles, which can give this set a rough time thanks to Wide Guard (tbh I hardly use Hitmontop nowadays, but whatevs). Rain is also considerably more popular in SmogDubs, which definitely makes Sunny Day Cresselia a must if you want it to see success. Just to add on to this, an ideal Cress set would look like:

Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 20 SpA / 136 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Helping Hand / Psyshock
- Ice Beam / Psyshock
- Sunny Day
- Trick Room

Not exactly an uncommon set, but I think Eruption Heatran fits best as half of this core, which works very efficiently. The spread is a bulkier Lv. 100 spread I have been testing out, though a more offensive spread can be used if you want more power, which would be pretty understandable. This thing is composed of pretty obvious move choices, so I'm not really going to explain it.

 

[Pocket]

Nice to see a strong VGC player visiting our forum, kingofkongs! I've actually used that set extensively, but I always opted for minimum Speed in IVs, just because it sucks to always move last against opposing TR Heatrans. For this reason working with Cresselia is kind of wonky for my Heatran, because Cresselia cannot set up Sunny Day before Heatran when Trick Room is up (so Sunny Day must be up before Trick Room). A better partner for me has been Dusknoir / Ducslops, which are naturally slower than Heatran, so it can provide that immediate sun support in the same turn Heatran Eruption spam under Trick Room.

I also use Charcoal atm for consistent damage - Fire Gem seems a bit overkill to me, and it's only a one-time boost, but it may be helpful in knocking out Garchomp, Terrakion, or Hydreigon in one-shot in the sun, which is extremely notable

 

[Brammi]

I've been using a Gyarados set designed to be a bit of disruption tank for a Sandstorm team, usually sent out as one of my lead two. Most people don't expect it in this type of role, but Intimidate plus a nifty movepool makes it quite useful.

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave
- Waterfall
- Bounce

I use no speed so that I can hit hard while still being bulky. Intimidate with the naturally high special defense means that it's mixed defenses are decent enough to be able to take on some double lead matchups. It also inhibits the usefulness of Hitmontop leads while surviving anything that Politoed leads might throw at it bar HP electric or some other shenanigans.

I use it on a Twave strat team with a sweeping team involving helping hand users, but if that doesn't fit the style of your team the protect is definitely a very useful move or using another attack like Earthquake might be more useful.

Bounce functions well for me because it takes it out of being hit for a turn. If they are already para'd I can coax them into going for the attack and on PS you can change targets for bounce after you're in the air so it works pretty well in that regard. It also have pretty good coverage with water.

 

[noobcubed]

I've been using a Gyarados set designed to be a bit of disruption tank for a Sandstorm team, usually sent out as one of my lead two. Most people don't expect it in this type of role, but Intimidate plus a nifty movepool makes it quite useful.

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave
- Waterfall
- Bounce

I use no speed so that I can hit hard while still being bulky. Intimidate with the naturally high special defense means that it's mixed defenses are decent enough to be able to take on some double lead matchups. It also inhibits the usefulness of Hitmontop leads while surviving anything that Politoed leads might throw at it bar HP electric or some other shenanigans.

I use it on a Twave strat team with a sweeping team involving helping hand users, but if that doesn't fit the style of your team the protect is definitely a very useful move or using another attack like Earthquake might be more useful.

Bounce functions well for me because it takes it out of being hit for a turn. If they are already para'd I can coax them into going for the attack and on PS you can change targets for bounce after you're in the air so it works pretty well in that regard. It also have pretty good coverage with water.

Are you kidding? apart from not using Bounce I use that all the time, definitely not underrated.

 

[Laga]

Yeah, Gyarados's main role is definitely as a bulky disruptor. Iirc, it's the only viable Pokemon with access to all three of Taunt, Thunder Wave, and Intimidate, so it's role is pretty unique.

Besides, the only legit offensive Gyarados set is bulky CB with Intimidate imo; DDance only works with a lot of team support.

 

[Nollan]

Nice to see a strong VGC player visiting our forum, kingofkongs! I've actually used that set extensively, but I always opted for minimum Speed in IVs, just because it sucks to always move last against opposing TR Heatrans. For this reason working with Cresselia is kind of wonky for my Heatran, because Cresselia cannot set up Sunny Day before Heatran when Trick Room is up (so Sunny Day must be up before Trick Room). A better partner for me has been Dusknoir / Ducslops, which are naturally slower than Heatran, so it can provide that immediate sun support in the same turn Heatran Eruption spam under Trick Room.

I also use Charcoal atm for consistent damage - Fire Gem seems a bit overkill to me, and it's only a one-time boost, but it may be helpful in knocking out Garchomp, Terrakion, or Hydreigon in one-shot in the sun, which is extremely notable

lol I swear, Pocket has developed a love for the x1.2 type-boosting items. xD

Just to compare damage output between Fire Gem & Charcoal:

Calcs with Fire Gem

252+ SpA Fire Gem Heatran Eruption vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Cresselia in sun: 295-348 (66.44 - 78.37%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Fire Gem Heatran Eruption vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios in sun: 208-246 (68.87 - 81.45%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Fire Gem Heatran Eruption vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Occa Berry Metagross in sun: 493-582 (135.43 - 159.89%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Fire Gem Heatran Eruption vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T in sun: 546-643 (142.93 - 168.32%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Fire Gem Heatran Eruption vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem in sun: 493-582 (108.59 - 128.19%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Fire Gem Heatran Eruption vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hitmontop in sun: 415-490 (136.51 - 161.18%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Fire Gem Heatran Eruption vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thundurus in sun: 378-445 (104.41 - 122.92%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Fire Gem Heatran Eruption vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon in sun: 246-291 (75.46 - 89.26%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Fire Gem Heatran Eruption vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion in sun: 246-291 (75.92 - 89.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Fire Gem Heatran Eruption vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp in sun: 259-306 (72.34 - 85.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Calcs with Charcoal

252+ SpA Charcoal Heatran Eruption vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Cresselia in sun: 237-279 (53.37 - 62.83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Charcoal Heatran Eruption vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios in sun: 166-196 (54.96 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Charcoal Heatran Eruption vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Occa Berry Metagross in sun: 394-465 (108.24 - 127.74%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Charcoal Heatran Eruption vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T in sun: 436-514 (114.13 - 134.55%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Charcoal Heatran Eruption vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem in sun: 397-468 (87.44 - 103.08%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Charcoal Heatran Eruption vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hitmontop in sun: 333-393 (109.53 - 129.27%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Charcoal Heatran Eruption vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thundurus in sun: 301-355 (83.14 - 98.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Charcoal Heatran Eruption vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon in sun: 198-234 (60.73 - 71.77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 236-278 (72.83 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Does more than a Charcoal Eruption in sun)
252+ SpA Charcoal Heatran Eruption vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp in sun: 207-245 (57.82 - 68.43%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Overall, they both will OHKO almost any non-resist bar Cresselia in sun w/ Eruption. However, Charcoal's consistency over raw power means that you will miss opportunities such as OHKOs on bulky Thundurus and Kyurem every so often that Fire Gem could achieve.

@Pocket While it is certainly gimmicky, you could try putting a Macho Brace on Cresselia, so you can outspeed Heatran without losing speed vs other Trick Room Heatran. The lack of Sitrus Berry will hurt, though. Either the loss of bulk (Dusknoir) or the extreme Taunt weakness (Dusclops) could be problematic, plus Cresselia is actually capable of doing its own damage, so it's an option for sure. Of course, it is true that Dusknoir & Dusclops can activate Flash Fire...

 

[Drakeyy]

CB Ferrothorn anybody?

Ferrothorn @ Choice Band
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Bulldoze
- Explosion

I know it probably seems gimmicky but it works wonderfully against rain teams and creates a wonderful tandem with scarf Landorus-T. If you use it in a trio with a TR setter its phenomenal. The idea is that most teams focus their energy on Lando who U-turns away while a setter (Mew in my case) sets up TR. Ferro comes in and tanks whatever water/ice attacks they sent Landos way and no he is the slowest poke on the field. Many people dont expect such power from Ferro and with a band can OHKO all variants of Politoed.

It can OHKO so many unsuspecting pokes who think he will just take the time to set up
Calcs:

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252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 337-397 (94.13 - 110.89%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kingdra: 270-318 (92.46 - 108.9%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 446-528 (116.14 - 137.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 388-457 (148.09 - 174.42%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 474-560 (117.32 - 138.61%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 168-198 (51.85 - 61.11%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Bulldoze vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Heatran: 328-388 (85.19 - 100.77%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Gastrodon: 1260-1488 (295.77 - 349.29%) -- guaranteed OHKO (lol)
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Bulldoze vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Ninetales: 190-224 (54.28 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (128 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 175-207 (39.5 - 46.72%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

It can OHKO 3 of the top 4 most used pokes and will always 2HKO the top 7 bar cress who it has a chance at 2hkoing if its not running Defensive EVs. Now obviously the downside is being locked into 1 move and without the band you just sacrifice too much power. Obviously the biggest drawback is its speed making TR support a must but even without defensive EVs it can still tank quite a lot, and paired with a Slowbro/king who can give it TR support and eliminate the pesky fighting and fire types that plague Ferro it can be hugely effective.